New “Retirement” rules
Some explanation about the new one visum rules that have just appeared regarding a year extensiong based on “Retirement”. I have not translated the text literally, but this may make it easier for some to understand.
The new rules look like this:
- Must have been granted a non-immigrant visa (Non-Im)
You must possess a non-immigrant visa. Was like that before. This will be a Non-Immigrant “O” for most of us.
- Must be 50 years of age or over
You must be 50 years or older. That was also the case before.
- Must have evidence of having income of no less than THB65,000
Have proof of income of at least 65 Baht. Was before that also visa support letter, Austrian consul, Affidavit of income, etc…
OF
- At least 2 months prior to filing date, and at least 3 months after being granted permission, the alien must have fund deposited in a bank in Thailand of no less than THB 800,000. The alien can withdraw the fund 3 months after being granted permission and the remaining balance must be no less than THB400,00
At least 2 months on the day of application and at least 3 months after granting the annual extension, there must be an amount of at least 800 000 Baht in a bank account in Thailand. Three months after the extension was granted, amounts may be withdrawn, but an amount of 400 Baht must always remain outstanding. This is actually the biggest adjustment. Not so much the amount, but the period that you have to prove that bank amount. In the best case, you can only use part of that money after 000 months (5 months before to 2 months after). In addition, you are not allowed to go below 3 400 Baht.
OF
- Must have and annual earnings and fund deposited with a commercial bank in Thailand totaling of no less than THB 800,000 until the filing date. The fund said must remain in the account prior to and after the permission is granted and the alien can make a withdrawal under the same conditions as stated in 4.
An annual income and a bank amount. Together this must be 800 000 Baht on the day of application. The bank amount indicated on the day of the application must be in the account two months before the application and this until at least three months after granting the annual extension. Afterwards, amounts may be withdrawn, but may not go below 400 Baht. Here too, the biggest adjustment is the duration that it must be on the bill, because the combination method was already in place. The amount you prove on the day of the application can also be less than 000 Baht, because it depends on the income you prove. However, if it is less than 400 Baht, you will not be allowed to touch it anyway, I think, because they equate it with the conditions in 000, which means that you are not allowed to go below 400 Baht.
There is more to read
Kingdom shall become void under following circumstances.
The stay in the Kingdom will become invalid in the following circumstances:
– The extension of stay within the kingdom does not consistent with the necessity permitted or as informed by the alien
The extension of the stay in the kingdom is not or no longer in line with the reason why the extension was granted or requested.
An example. You want to go to work. You can, but you will lose your “Retirement extension”. You will then have to organize and request your stay in a different way, because working with a “Retirement extension” is not allowed
– An Aliens qualifications does not meet criteria or conditions for consideration to permit to stay within the Kingdom as previously submitted due to changes of void there of what so ever
You do not or no longer meet the conditions of the new rules to obtain or maintain a “retirement extension”.
Example: There is insufficient money on the application, or not long enough, or you have gone below that 400 Baht, … .. All reasons why the extension can be refused or withdrawn.
– For an alien permitted to stay in the Kingdom in case of family members of Thai national, or of permanent resident in the Kingdom or of an alien's family, in case the said Thai national or permanent resident, or alien is deceased, the permitted alien can stay in the Kingdom for a period of time be granted in the visa only.
If your residence is linked to Thai relatives or a “Permanent Resident” and one of those references dies, you may continue to use the remaining period of residence.
I think it's a very social measure. Example: Suppose your Thai wife dies and there are still 8 months left on your “Thai Marriage extension”, then you can continue to use it until the end date of the “Marriage extension”. Your period of residence will therefore no longer be withdrawn immediately, which was possible in the past.
All these new rules will come into effect on March 1, 2019. Transitional measures may still be issued, but we may learn more about that later. At the moment there is no question that similar measures have been introduced for "Mariage extensions". Which is not to say that this is not possible in the future, of course. I hope I was able to make it clear, if not let me know on the blog.
RonnyLatYa
Thanks Ronny is very clear.
Hopefully the bad apples will now fall through and there will be no loopholes.
Don't think it will ever be waterproof.
And rules are only as good as controlling them, but she didn't have to change the rules for that.
Check for correct application.
Dear Bert, loopholes in a law are of course always there and will continue to arise, worldwide. I find the term 'bad apples' very negative. Especially now that you receive less and less Baht for a euro. You will live with your family in Thailand for years and now due to the poor exchange rate of the euro and the possible reduction of your Dutch pension, you will just not be able to meet the income requirement of 65.000 Baht p/m. Yes, law is law, but it seems logical to me that you look for alternatives to be able to stay with your family in Thailand. Compliments to RonnyLatYa, who again succeeded in explaining the matter clearly in a very short time.
Dear Leo, if you live here with your family, your visa is usually based on marriage, and the monthly income only needs to be 40,000 baht, or 400.000 in the bank. If you don't have that, you might have to ask yourself what you're still doing in Thailand, you could just get seriously ill – and then?
Yes Jasper, you are right about the income limit for officially married people and having a visa on that basis. But not everyone is married, would not want to give a living to those who live together without paper in Thailand. I don't wonder what someone is doing in Thailand with an income of or below 40.000 Baht p/m, or any other amount. Is a personal matter for them, which can be based on numerous reasons. Incidentally, many Thai people will not even come close to a monthly income of 40.000 Baht, but that aside. If you as a foreigner in Thailand would become seriously ill and are not insured, it will be the end of the exercise for most of them (perhaps in a literal sense), whether or not you meet the 40.000 Baht or 65.000 Baht requirement. My response was about the designation 'bad apples'. I regularly met compatriots in Thailand who are far from being entitled to pension but who were completely incapacitated for work. Living in Thailand, also because of the climate, with or without a partner and married or not. Certainly do not have sufficient resources to deposit 400.000 Baht, let alone 800.000 Baht, in a bank account, or to leave it for a longer period of time. For whatever reasons (including the currency exchange rate) they may no longer meet the monthly income requirement. And although you have to comply with the law (which is subject to change at all times), I can understand if you then look for the loopholes of the law, without being put away as a 'bad apple'. Multinationals, such as Shell, Google, etc., are no different, have entire departments with very well-paid staff for this and are often stimulated by governments, including the Dutch state.
The question is how they will check that the funds are still sufficient in the account …? If that were to happen during an unexpected check, then you cannot go outside Thailand with confidence, for example a month to Belgium or the Netherlands on a family visit, it will just happen that you lose your ret Ext!
If it is only retroactively checked with the next extension, then there is no problem, but then they lose (immgrat.) that ret.ext.” void” measure during the year, which then gives some naughty opportunities, otherwise you are stuck in Thailand
Still subject to "fine tuning" by immigration as usual
You must submit a bank statement with an untouched balance of 3 baht at the next notification (i.e. 800.000 months later). If you are in default, you will fly out of the country. It's that simple.
Actually, they don't really have to check that in the year and I don't think that will happen effectively.
Maybe only offer it once after the first 3 months? Do you get a note that proves that from that date you can go below 800 000 Baht or something (just my thoughts)
That ret.ext.”void” measure during the year is more something they keep in reserve, I think. Can always be asked of course. For example, someone who is arrested for one reason or another and is then also checked whether he still meets the financial conditions of his annual extension.
But the simplest thing is to check at the next renewal whether the 800 Baht has remained on it for three months, whether you have not been below that 000 Baht all year and that there is at least 400 Baht on it again 000 months before the application date. .
If so, you can obtain a new year extension. If that is not the case then no year extension and back behind a visa and start again..
They also want to abolish those 90 days of notifications. Great, but that won't help if you replace it with another system, where someone has to come at certain times to prove that they still meet the requirements.
Personally, I think that not everything has been said about this yet. A date of March 1 has been set for it to come into effect, but I suspect that this could be postponed given the reactions of the immigration offices in particular.
I don't think they are ready for that. And what will we get again.
With the second rule, the combination of income and the amount in the bank will cause problems for some, I think. Also 400.000 Baht is not a "small amount" for everyone. Even with enough income you have to get it together first.
Suppose you only have 1500 euros per month, then you still have to have those 400.000. Already 11151 Euro. Go save that together with a small income.
And because the Euro is still falling further, I slowly have to save that money together…. pfff.. it doesn't get any easier. Already those 65000 Baht are an income of 1812 Euro.
Well shaak.
Nor is it up to immigration to adapt to the applicant.
The applicant must adapt to the requirements of immigration.
Aren't you married then? Then apply for a “Marriage extension”.
1500 Euro income is still sufficient for the required 40 000 Baht…
The nasty thing is, if you have a partner, that you get about 300 euros less state pension from the Netherlands, I think that 400.000 Thb is very high, if you have a combination of, for example, income and 100.000 in the bank, it is still the best for me. ask how someone with a small pension and state pension can easily put aside 10.000 euros to get to that 400.000 Thb.
Regards Lee
Loan,
Nothing changes for married.
It is still the same for them as it is now….
And the combination method is not possible for married couples. It's EITHER 40 Baht income, OR 000 Baht in the bank. No combination possible.
Even if you can save 1500 Euro of that 500 Euro, it will take you almost a year to have 400.000 baht. However, the rule will soon apply. That's not enough time.
I'm not talking about myself. But yes, I can't get into trouble with a marriage visa.
A couple of whom both are foreigners still only have to detain 1,6 million.
Foreign couple: 1 out of 2 can go for a 'dependant'. Then there are no financial requirements for that person.
The “dependent” also still applies to a foreign couple. So the same applies to both of them as to one person.
I find it strange that many count from 0 Euro. So they have nothing but an AOW every month?
Who knows whether after obtaining your retirement visa (or annual extension), you can put your money on a fixed deposit or is it for three months on a current account and then fixed deposit? BTW for the answer.
No idea. This is just out and not even in effect yet.
Dear Edvado,
This is a good question that is difficult to answer at the moment. The general regulations never stated what type of account it should be, only that it should be an account with a Thai bank, no further word about fixed or saving account. So this was already open to interpretation by the local immigration office.
For years I have been using, successfully, without any problem, a FIXED account to prove the 800.000THB. It is even a term account with a term of 2 years each time. The only movement on this account is the annual interest that is added every 2 years and it has therefore always been accepted until now. The only thing I have to add is a copy of my SAVING account that does have movement because I use it for daily life. At immigration they only want to know what I live on since there is no movement on the fixed account. The amount on this saving account does not play any role in this case, but must be realistic somewhere. The comment that some will make here is that the money must always be available. Well, it is because, even with a fixed account, you can withdraw your money at any time, with the only result being the loss of the extra interest you get compared to a saving account.
When collecting the bank statement document in the bank, I always explicitly add this fact that the money can be withdrawn at any time.
Whether this will also be the case in the future, with the new regulations, remains to be seen, but I assume so. On Monday I have to report my 90 days and will ask the question to the IO, but I expect that they will not be able to answer me yet because these measures are also new to the people at Immigration. I will keep Ronny informed of this fact.
There are Immigration offices that want to see a change on the day of the extension. This is to check whether the balance is actually present and not, for example, the money has been removed from the account without updating the bank book. This change on the day of renewal I know from my own experience is requested in Khon Kaen and Nakhon Ratchasima. So for my 800.000 I used the regular (save account) account for my reporting and for the other months that the money didn't have to be tied up I posted it to a fixed deposit account. The latter account does not have the option of making a transaction on the reporting day, for example by depositing 100 baht into the account, but only serves to record the terms and amounts of the deposits and the crediting of interest. In the new situation I need to have 400.000 on the regular account continuously and 5 for 800.000 months. Precisely I choose to put 800.000 baht on the regular account throughout the year to prevent an official from announcing that a fixed account is not allowed. I don't want to enter into a discussion that a fixed account is also directly retrievable and therefore equal to a save account, since I respect Thai culture. So that's why from this year 800.000 in a regular account because security for everything, then only a few thousand baht interest less.
Dear Ger Korat,
I fully respect your response, but I think that every reader already knows that it is or can be different everywhere. Here in Chumphon Immigration there are barely 15 people, yes fifteen, with a year extension. So the immigration officer knows us all. So I'm just telling you how things are going here. The last thing I will ever do is argue with a Thai official about the rules or legislation, it's just pointless. I don't know what this has to do with respect for Thai culture. The day they tell me they won't accept it anymore I will accept that and present them with another bank account. I know this is not possible for everyone, but it is no problem for me.
As for getting 800.000THB from a bank book from today to tomorrow, that is almost impossible since you will always have to be in the office for such an amount. Via ATM or PC banking it is even impossible in the short term due to the limits on withdrawals or PC transfers. You know as well as I do that the first thing they do when you make a withdrawal at a bank branch is the passbook in the machine and upgrade. So talk about quickly picking it up, I'm not going to go along with that.
Dear Lung Addie, I told my situation which is similar to others,
but different from yours. Of course I also prefer to use a fixed deposit account, because of the interest payment, to keep the money on it all the time, but as explained, that is not possible everywhere in Thailand. Just wanted to share my experience.
I understand very well why Immigration asks for a bank transaction because suppose you have 800.000 in the account and then you make 1 or more withdrawals in, for example, the month before the renewal, you can withdraw up to 50.000 per day and your credit will fall far below the mandatory limit of 800.000. And then don't update your bank book. Look, therefore, it is correct from Immigration to demand a transaction on the reporting day and then update the bank book and only then the balance confirmation from the bank.
What I mean with respect for Thai culture is that I just like to say yes and amen and remain polite and do not argue if something is unclear with an official who decides on the granting of my annual residence. As a fifties, I have known Thailand since the early 90s and I know how things are here. The Thais everywhere call me a teacher, but no, I don't, because I'm more of a businessman. And no, no bar stories because I don't drink alcohol and don't go to bars.
Dear,
this is the last thing I will write about FIXED and SAVING account use.
Everyone who uses a FIXED account should know that without an upgrade of the bank book, a transaction on a FIXED account is impossible. This is already due to the fact that with a FIXED account you do not have PC banking, debit or credit cards, you only have the bank book. That is already the big difference between a FIXED and a SAVING account, otherwise it is not a FIXED account. If you want to deposit or withdraw money from a FIXED account, you always have to go to the bank branch to do this. Without possession of the bank book that is not possible, you simply do not get anything. The first thing they do with a transaction is put this FIXED account booklet in the upgrade machine to see what the status is. After the operation, that booklet goes back in. So just like that, emptying the account without an upgrade is just not possible.
And indeed, the fixed account is not accepted everywhere at immigration, but that is only because they have doubts whether the amount is immediately available, which it certainly is. By the way, I can't blame the people at immigration for not knowing that, after all they are not financial experts, but the 'big boss' usually knows.
Ronny, have the rules (amounts and conditions) also changed in the case of 'Thai marriage'?
It says in the text “At the moment there is no question that similar measures have been introduced for ”Mariage extensions”. Which is not to say that this is not possible in the future, of course. ”
I can't say more about that now.
Do I see a possible practical problem here?
The new rules go into effect March 1, 2019.
Someone is going to ask for their annual extension on March 1, 2019, or a few days later.
That someone had withdrawn the full 800.000 baht from the bank after the previous extension.
That someone will quickly top up his bank balance to 1 today, February 2019, 800.000.
But on March 1, 2019, when applying for an extension, that will no longer result in a minimum of 400.000 baht in his bank account for at least 3 months after the previous extension.
Or should I see it in such a way that this new condition will only apply to an extension request that is made 1 year after the date of entry into force of the new rules, 1 March 2019?
For me, the above does not apply, because I leave at least 800.000 bath in a bank account all year round, nothing ever goes wrong with regard to it. this condition.
Nothing seems to have changed about the abolition of the 90-day notification, is that still in the works?
With respect Ronny for all your work.
Nico B
NicoB,
Those who will apply for their annual extension on March 1 will already have that 800 Baht in the bank for three months (or 000 months).
After all, that was also the requirement in the old situation…
But they will normally build in a transition period. They are now not going to demand that you show that from the past year on March 1. Normally, that control period will start on March 1 as well.
Nothing has been heard about the 90-day notification.
Have you ever thought about what it means to have to return to the Netherlands?
Those who do not have a home address will not receive a benefit. Legally regulated.
Housing is not available even if you are on the waiting list for years.
The influx of asylum seekers has reinforced this.
Charity and the Salvation Army are unable to absorb this.
The payout standard is not that high.
Those who do not have their own means are stuck between two stools
WG PC Brewer
Surely it is not immigration that should be thinking about this…
And if your annual visa has been extended, how will it be checked whether the TBH 8 tons is still on the account for 3 months after the extension?
I was never asked (my annual renewal expires in December) to demonstrate at the next annual renewal (ie December) that the amount was also still on my account during the roughly first quarter.
By obliging you to come after 3 months?
“I was never asked…. etc"
Of course not. It will only come into force on March 1 and before that it was not a requirement.
I think it's normal that it wasn't asked...
I think you should bring your bank book with you every 90 day check.
Only it is / was the intention to abolish those 90 days. Replacing it with another message therefore makes little sense.
It's not that difficult is it? Isn't even necessary after those 3 months? You already had to go to Immigration with statement and booklet for the next extension. With both statement and booklet, stamps and signatures of the bank manager can be used to demonstrate that THB 800K were on the account for five months: for example, on 1 December you request your extension. Booklet and statement show that from September 30 to March 1, that amount is on the account. The banks in Thailand are happy with this measure. They have 5 months of many farang THB 800K pp at their disposal, then mine THB 7K pp for 400 months. Which means that farang departing to or in Thailand will have to adjust their mindset: if their pension income is less than THB 65K, first save up to at least THB 400K, then get a visa in The Hague, then extend it in Thailand. A nice additional advantage: in case of a relationship/marriage you have a pot of money for your remaining partner. THB 800K is a nice gesture in this regard.
Show your bankbook with the overview of 1 year
Clear explanation.
The reasons for the adjustments have also been discussed before.
It remains to be seen how enforcement policy will turn out in this regard.
According to Khaosod, there is already some fuss about the new rules: “days after the new immigration rules, immigration officials are already resisting the new rules (…) we have to sit down with our legal advisers about what this all means for us (immigration officials)”
Source:
http://www.khaosodenglish.com/news/2019/02/01/new-retiree-visa-rules-bewilder-thai-immigration-source/
As I said before, I do not see the point of new rules either.
A better check on the previous one would solve a lot.
As we always expect from Ronny, a very clear and correct explanation about the visa. That it will never be watertight is also a truth, but it is an improvement that can only lead to people who fully meet the immigration conditions being treated in a better way. Those who do not agree with these rules or cannot comply should look for another destination.
It is all "thought out" to prevent abuse in the form of borrowing the amount from an agent.
Seems hard to prevent or eliminate.
What has clearly not been thought through properly, if 50,000 expats have to leave, that means an average of 50,000 baht less foreign currency per month, per expat.
And that is a reasonable amount.
I think BJ is going a bit overboard, the grumbling in the ranks of the Immigration Police is already starting.
Especially with the combination method of income and money in the bank, it seems to me that the amount after the three months would not be 400,000 baht, but half of the combination amount in the bank.
To be continued, no doubt.
That will all work out. Soup has never been eaten hot in Thailand. Precisely those who were unable to stay in Thailand with sufficient income: it occurred to them that all kinds of tricks were used to "meet" the conditions through deception. If you are staying in Thailand with insufficient income, please leave.
We also expect the same from Thai people who, for example, apply for a Schengen visa for the Netherlands.
For those who have entered into a marriage in Thailand with a small income but with honorable intentions, there is always the “Thai wife” visa, for which THB 40K per month is sufficient.
Very clear Ronny! Compliments. If we didn't have you… what would become of us? Many thanks!
Thank you for explaining the new rules. So not much changes. Any future new
rules, wait and see.
In the text you mention 2 months before and 3 months after the extension (granted permission) as also mentioned at point 4. in the English text. If you then read the whole story, it seems that it is only about the first extension (ie 2 months before…) and it does not seem to be about subsequent extensions in subsequent years. So I miss this piece, although the English text does mention a piece about those that have already arrived before October 21, 1998.
Do you know what this is about, where it says about the extensions after the 1st year extension?
There is no longer 2 or 3 months in the new system. There is no longer a distinction between first or follow-up applications.
It is always 2 months before the application and three months after the authorization.
Whether it concerns the first or the 10th request.
I did not copy that part about October 21, 1998. Also existed in the previous version and I don't think there are many who still qualify for this. But that still exists.
Besides, I'm curious. Are there any TB readers who enjoy this?
Read “There is no longer 2 or 3 months for the application in the new system. A distinction is therefore no longer made between initial and follow-up applications.”
Ok thank you for the explanation. Ultimately, the new situation will be that you leave a minimum of 5 baht in the account for 800.000 months with a minimum balance of 400.000 on this account for the other 7 months. At least if you use the 800.000 baht scheme for the extension of your stay.
That is completely correct if you use the 800 Baht on the bank scheme. As you say.
I have been doing an official visa with income for years now that the Immi now ask for official proof of income, then the bad apples are immediately cleaned up, affidavit puts you on what you want (Belgian) 2500 + euros per month where you barely have 1200, well my affidavit is always supported by a pension extract.
I was told earlier that since December the embassy now also asks for proof of those amounts.
I was there in January, but I forgot to ask if it was necessary because I automatically include a letter from the pension service. You can even get it in English for possible use abroad. Just request by email.
No problem checking them.
Those who just filled in some numbers in the past are to blame for all these changes, but will now shout how unjust this is for them.
I went to get an income afdavit at the Belgian embassy on 17/1/2019. On 24/1 I got my year extension. Neither at the embassy nor at immigration (BKK) were questions asked about that income statement.
Someone told me last year that you now had to enclose your income, or at least proof thereof.
I went January 16 and forgot to ask, because I automatically already attach a statement from the pension service.
Strictly speaking, it is not necessary, because it remains a statement of honor and only your signature is legalized. But I do support it being checked. I don't have any problem with it.
That's where the abuse started. Poor income control.
That immigration does not ask for proof is normal, because they continue on that Affidavit of the Embassy.
But here too it is best to ask to submit the documents that explain the figures on the Affidavit.
This would prevent many more abuses instead of inventing new rules
At the Belgian embassy it has always been the case that the proof had to be present when the affidavit was approved. By the way, that is why the Belgian embassy still issues the affidavit and it is still accepted by immigration. For the Belgians it was actually quite simple as the Belgians all receive their statutory pension from 1 and the same pension fund and not, as for most Dutch people, from different institutions or pension funds. It was therefore easy to check by the embassy and the Belgian did not have to write to different authorities to prove the pension, 1 document was sufficient.
I have already gone to get an income afdavit at the Belgian embassy 3 times. The last time was – as I wrote above – 2 weeks ago. I have NEVER had to provide any proof of income.
We have never had to present proof of income to the Belgian embassy
The information you provide here is not correct at all. Obtained an affidavit at the Belgian embassy in Bangkok about 3 months ago. NO proof of income is required.
It is by spreading false information such as this that many readers are wrong-footed. Please stop that and only provide correct information.
So to be clear: no proof of income is yet requested to obtain the affidavit at the Belgian embassy in Bangkok.
If so, don't the Belgians run the risk that at some point the statements of their Embassy will no longer be accepted? After all, the American, British and Danish embassies stopped precisely because they did not want/could not exercise control over evidence?
It is not for nothing that the Dutch Embassy has changed the procedure in my opinion………
The embassies of those countries have made this decision unilaterally, with the statement that they were never allowed to check this completely or not.
It has never been a question of immigration.
More of a domino effect, where I hear that some embassies already regret that they got involved in this.
And if you see the price compared to the past and now what the Dutch embassy asks to deliver an A4. Just to check that income
I'm sorry, but I don't get the impression that the intention is to support. countrymen. Rather generate a nice income… and that is the reason to generate a “Visa Support Letter” Not even the word is right.
Thanks and respect Ronny, it is now much clearer to me after your explanation!
thanks Ronny , at least you give the correct info , not like many others who confuse the readers of this blog , keep it up and thanks again
Rudy
I have a document from Immigration in Amnatcharoen. It's quite different from what's written here.
The non-immigrant visa requirement is not on the list
Copy of all passport pages required
Doctor's certificate from government hospital required
Copy of Id card of Thai that you stay with needed
Furthermore, with regard to 65.000 or 800.000 less stringent rules on detailed points
The new rules came out yesterday and will only come into force on March 1.
I would be surprised if documents are already available in your immigration office or any immigration office.
I'd go back once the rules are in place.
And yet again
“The non-immigrant visa o requirement is not on the list”
Seems normal to me, because you cannot apply for a Non-immigrant “O” visa there.
You cannot apply for a Non-immigrant O in immigration offices.
Only convert a Tourist visa to a Non-immigrant..
What you extend is the period of stay obtained with a Non-immigrant “O” visa
Is that medical test mandatory or not and what does it entail?
No, that is not an official obligation.
Some immigration offices do ask and officially they can because you can always ask for additional documents if you think it is necessary.
Well what does that mean.
I think the same as with a driver's license where the doctor still declares that you are still alive in front of him
and classic blood pressure, heart rate, lungs, weight, or….
I've never had to deliver it but like I said it's a local decision.
To top it all off, why didn't the Thai Immigration Service merge the 2 documents:
1) “Order of immigration bureau No 327/2557 Subject: Criteria and Conditions for Consideration of an Alien's Application for a Temporary Stay in the Kingdom of Thailand”, Dec 2018
https://www.thailandblog.nl/expats-en-pensionado/thaise-immigratie-bewijs-van-inkomen-2019/
This explicitly states that the visa support letter from the embassy counts as evidence of income
2) above police order 35/2561, January 2019, which specifies more about the other method: 800K to the Thai bank account
https://assets.thaivisa.com/forum/uploads/monthly_2019_01/FINAL_Page_3.thumb.jpg.5346c47dc5bf1eb85a2b430803509f3d.jpg,
Because both are an adaptation of another document and they were probably approved separately.
Here too it says that “Must have evidence of having income of no less than THB 65,000” is sufficient.
It was also stated in the document to which the adjustment applies.
ie that “evidence” is a visa support letter, Austrian consul, Affidavit of income, etc…
But actually a monthly deposit of 65 Baht to a Thai bank account is just as much an “evidence of income”.
It is then a matter of how the author of the document expresses himself.
These two immigration orders were signed and drafted by two different people.
One may be clearer and more detailed than the other.
What I miss in the summary is the re-entry, because if you don't 'buy' it, you will lose the Visa upon your return.
Once explained to an official in Maptaput that my Thai partner has a Schengen visa for one year, with two periods of 90 days. She does not have to buy an extra re-entry. The visa is just as expensive as going to Europe once for 30, 60 or 90 days. He looked at me sheepishly!
Dear Ronny; is the re-entry still necessary?
John D Kruse
A “Re-entry” is only intended not to lose a previously obtained residence period (not a visa).
A “Re-entry” in itself therefore has nothing to do with the requirements of an extension.
Someone who does not leave Thailand does not need a “Re-entry” either.
A “Re-entry” will still be required if you do not want to lose the previously obtained residence period when leaving Thailand.
Can believe that official gave you a sheepish look.
Someone with a Non-immigrant “O” Multiple entry in Thailand does not have to buy re-entry either, because they have a visa with entries. He enters Thailand as often as he likes that year and will receive a new stay period of 90 days each time. No restrictions of those 90 days on a 180 day period.
Think he looked at you like that more out of compassion 😉
Ronnie,
you apparently have not understood at all!
Have had a Retirement visa since 2008. So live(d) here!
That will change on February 5. Took a one-way ticket to Spain.
Come back in a month's time to collect any leftover items.
Will try to arrange something for my partner in Spain. She has three months left!
That re-entry visa is just a way from Immigration to get an extra 1000 baht,
in my case sometimes 3x a year, on top of the 1900 of the annual Visa extension.
Backward to have to buy off the threat of a further invalidity of the annual visa upon return. I made that clear to him and that's why the official looked sheepish!
They should be happy that expats still want to come back. Because it doesn't get any cheaper here.
John D Kruse
Well, I'm just someone who doesn't understand much
Have fun in Spain.
By the way, I hope you mean by “she only has three months left”, that you are talking about her Schengen visa….
What are you talking about anyway.
1900 Baht and 3 x 1000 Baht in a year.
Yes, I can understand that with such prices you consider it for streams in Thailand ...
Hi Ronnie,
Of course I was talking about the Schengen visa, “She has three months left” but rather a second period of 90 days.
It gives time to apply for a one-year 'provisional' residence permit for her. Already have a European certificate for Spain since 1994, but left for Thailand in 2018 with my German wife. I'm not going to explain that further.
Sometimes my writing can be a bit confusing yes, sorry!
John D Kruse
A non-immigrant OA visa costs 150 euros in Belgium. So if you can get an extension here for 1900 Bht, that's a bargain. However, an extension is not a visa. That's why a re-entry is required if you want to use it just like an OA.
An extension costs 1900 Bht. A multiple re-entry costs 3800. So in total you will not lose more than for an annual visa.
I think that little has changed.
When I came here in a long gray past, 800K was enough only on the day of applying for the retirement based extension.
Later this changed to 3 months before the application or renewal date, the reason was that there were people who borrowed money from buddies, etc. for a short time.
And what happened, with the current 3-month rule, people borrow from buddies, etc., but a little longer.
Do you really think that with the new rules starting March 01, 2019, money will no longer be borrowed as before with buddies, etc.
I think so, but then again a bit longer, I think that money lenders will immediately respond to this.
If you want to improve the system, check the applicant's annual bank book or banking activities upon renewal.
You can simply do it, if during the past year the amounts are sufficiently moving on your bank book that you can live on and pay your bills, hobbies, etc. and eventually return to the legal amount of 800K with the subsequent extension.
Is a balance in your bank account falling shortly after applying for say 500K and only rising again after a long time or just before the application is not suspicious?
I therefore think that this new rule is once again putting the cart before the horse.
Jan Beute.
As with many things Jan
Better apply and control what you have.
If that turns out to be insufficient, only then proceed to additional measures.
In short. Fewer laws and rules, but they are applied correctly and checked.
For NL people in TH: married, but.. Thai partner dies. Ites too little income or amount in the bank and.. busted, our free country ahead of the Thais. Lived there for thirty years, rooted etc but…
Just imagine that NL would apply the same conditions: Turk, Moroccan, Thai, etc.: not enough pension and AOW accrued in NL, below that capital or income limit, so .. out of the country. Wilders had only one seat: in his garden.
If you were a Permanent Resident, you should not leave Thailand in the event of a death, for example.
However, most of them are non-immigrants and use a certain system to stay in Thailand for a long time. If that doesn't work then you need to switch to something else.
But do understand what you mean and would personally like to see things differently.
Both here and in Belgium…..
Are there other legitimate reasons to stay in Thailand on a retirement visa than a relationship with a Thai partner?
No, in that case and for a long-term stay and without going to work somewhere with “border runs”, it is then a choice between “Retired” or “Thai marriage” year extensions. One or the other.
Thai child in Thailand is also possible and the conditions are the same as “Thai marriage”. The child must of course live with you.
A Non-immigrant OA Multiple entry visa, which also allows you to stay for 1 year, is also an option.
You can also bridge almost two years with a “border run” if you calculate it well. After two years, get a new visa in your home country.
There is of course also the expensive non-immigrant OX visa for 2 x 5 years, but I suspect this is not the point of your question.
Am I reading this right or am I mistaken Ronny?
” A Non-immigrant OA Multiple entry visa, which also allows you to stay for 1 year, is also an option.
You can also bridge almost two years with a border run if you calculate it well. After two years, get a new visa in your home country”.
After those almost 2 years, you can still extend an OA for 1 year at Immigration if you meet the conditions and you do not have to go to your home country for this. Greeting.
Nico B
By that I mean that you can only continue on OA. You shouldn't have to fie annual exploration. But then you have to go to your home country every two years for a new OA visa.
Of course you can also extend that period of stay, but then you fall back on the requirements in Thailand for an annual extension, because they remain the same as with the extension of a 90-day period of stay.
It is difficult to type with that small keyboard, but it is also clear with the typing errors I hope 😉
In Thailand, you are only allowed to stay in Thailand for one (1) year at a time. One does not automatically get that period either because one is staying in Thailand, or wants to do good in Thailand, or has started to support an existing family, or has started a second leg, or supports an in-laws, has taken root or whatever. more she. These are all personal choices and decisions.
No: you can stay in Thailand again and again for a year if you meet the income requirements. You must submit all kinds of evidence to the Immigration official/officer when applying for another one-year extension of residence to meet these requirements. People in Thailand have been clear about this for many years and that has not changed for many years. That has to do with Thai or Turk in the Netherlands. In other words: Thailand forces an applicant to have a clear view of his situation every year. They are financial demands that are made and not idealistic motives that are suddenly evoked and should apply. Anyone who does not realize this kind of thing is very naive. You should never assume that you can spend your entire (last) life in Thailand if you cannot meet the income requirements.
This is for Retirement Extensions only and not for Marriage (to a Thai) Extensions. So I am forced to switch to a Marriage Extension now. Harder this.
Why? The rules for extension based on marriage for a Thai for Dutch or Belgians do not change: get an income statement from the embassy or 400k in the bank.
In Thailand, too, all kinds of rules and legislation are constantly subject to change. This is because situations arise that require changes.
This latest change in the Thai Immigration financial requirements for extended stay for one year at a time, (presented and superbly explained by RonnyLatYa, for which we are deeply indebted,) is most likely intended to prevent unwanted practices by farang in being able to meet financial requirements. And rightly so: no country tolerates cheating by foreigners with their laws and regulations.
It will become clear in the near future what exactly the new rules will look like in terms of implementation.
This also includes the consideration of only granting an extension if a health insurance registration can also be submitted. Just as it also applies when applying for a Schengen visa.
I have read this article, and something is not very clear to me, I have an income of 600.000 Baht, and every year I make a minimum of 200.000 Baht in my account anyway, but how long should this amount remain in the account? ?
That amount, 200 Baht, will then normally have to be accrued two months before the application and three months after that. But given the sum, it should stay on until your next overtime.
Thanks Ronny, I'm in exactly the same boat as Rudy Vercauteren, and my Thai wife and I had already decided to sell our car to get to that 400.000. So you see how quickly a misunderstanding arises. Thanks friend.
Keep your car for a while, until we see how it will all turn out in practice 😉
Isn't there a little misunderstanding here? Condition 4 and 5 also says that after those 3 months there must always be an amount of 400.000THB. So if I understand correctly, that 200.000THB will have to be supplemented to 400.000THB because you are not allowed to go below this amount… or am I wrong?
The condition says with the combination method that the amount you prove must still be there after three months.
If that is less than 400, you will probably no longer be allowed to touch it.
With only a bank amount, one assumes 800. And there the 000 Baht will be the minimum.
This will always be different with the combination method and depending on the income. Is that lower than those 400, that's ok, but you probably won't be allowed to collect anything anymore. After all, you then have your income to live on.
Dear Ronnie,
That is very logical what you say and I totally follow your interpretation. But, I see, you weigh your words carefully and use 'probably' because we don't know for sure yet and have to wait and see what and how they will apply it, nobody knows that yet. As always, this offers another possibility: how will the IO interpret it locally? If he strictly follows the regulations then it is: no less than 400.000THB after 3 months, if he follows the logic and what in legal terms: the spirit of the law, then the full year should follow the combination…. We already know from experience: 'Western logic and Eastern wisdom are diametrically opposed'.
In a few months, after application, we will know more. Let's not forget that the real reason is to eliminate the agencies as much as possible.
You can probably use it for something that has yet to come into effect.
We'll see.
“but probably use” I mean that drawing conclusions with what they actually mean in certain texts is very vague and ambiguous.
That is why I have not translated it literally, but freely translated it and converted it into a text of what I think will work.
It seems clear to me that the lyrics were quickly cobbled together.
So we'll see and... I had written it somewhere before. I have my doubts whether the implementation date will be met, and if so I think it will be a complete chaos of interpretations by the various immigration offices.
Chaos at immigration and applicants.
😉
Thank you Ronny for this clear explanation.
I'm going to experience it for the first time this year.
Now I know exactly what I need to arrange and when.
regards
Ferdinand
I have the next question
We my wife and I have a euro account with the BK bank
And deposit money into my wife's Thai bank for daily shopping
And the eu bill is 25 times the requirement of 400,000 thb
Would they be okay with that?
In addition, an amount of around 2500 euros is paid into the eu account every month
If your immigration office accepts that Euro account, and some do, you're going to have a problem.
If they don't, you will also have had problems in the old system, even if the requirement of 26 Baht is stated 400 times.