Dear readers,
I want to emigrate to Thailand early next year and I have a question of a practical nature. I do not have sufficient income and therefore want to deposit 800.000 Baht in a Thai bank, to meet one of the requirements of the Thai immigration service.
How on earth am I supposed to manage to apply for a Non-immigrant OA (Retirement Visa) in the 90 days I have been given to do so. The fact is that my Non-immigrant O visa (with which I entered the country) is only valid for a maximum of 90 days, while at the same time they demand that (in order to obtain the Retirement visa) my 800.000 Baht has already been valid for 90 days (3 months). ) has been on a Thai bench. That will never work, since both requirements have a period of 90 days.
How do other people do that? Am I that stupid?
For example, when I arrive in Thailand on 01-01-2020, I can stay in Thailand for 3 months, based on my Non-immigrant O visa. Suppose I found an apartment on 10-01-2020 and signed a lease. Then the next day I run to a bank to open a bank account and transfer 800.000 Baht to it. Suppose I have my bank account with 800.000 Baht on it on 15-01-2020. Only on April 16, 2020 will I therefore meet the requirement to have an amount of 3 Baht in a Thai bank account for 800.000 months. So I can only apply for a Retirement visa from that date. However, I already have to leave the country on 01-04-2020, because my non-immigrant O visa has expired.
I do understand that I can take a Non-immigrant O visa with multiple entries, but then I will not be able to apply for a Retirement visa until November 2020 and I will have to make a visa run every 90 days. Surely it must be possible differently? How should I solve the problem I outlined?
I hope someone can provide me with a solution.
Thanks in advance for that.
Peter
Dear Peter,
If you do everything quickly it could be possible, it's not 3 months but 2 months. Is also elsewhere here on Thailandblog with new visa rules.
At least 2 months on the day of application and at least 3 months after granting the annual extension, there must be an amount of at least 800 000 Baht in a bank account in Thailand.
With the new rules (from 1 March), the amount must now always be in the bank 2 months before application, not three months. So give you some time to put your bank account in order.
It must then, after permission, remain there for three months and then you may only drop for the remaining months to a minimum of 400 Baht.
Even with the current rules, 2 months is sufficient when it comes to the first application, but those rules are no longer of any use, of course.
If you have a Non-immigrant “O” Multiple entry, you do not have to completely remove it first.
Each end of a 90 day stay gives the possibility to extend, even if your visa is not fully “used up”.
In the past, some immigration offices were already difficult about it and wanted you to first use the possibilities of the visa. but I hear nothing more about it.
But a Multiple entry is unnecessary if you plan to stay anyway.
And I'll repeat it again.
You request an extension of a period of stay (90 days in this case), obtained with a Non-immigrant visa and this on the basis of “Retirement”.
So that is not a Non-immigrant “OA” visa that you are applying for.
You can only apply for a Non-immigrant “OA” visa at an embassy that is located in the country of your nationality, or where you are officially registered.
So you don't have to worry about that bank account.
Success.
With your first application for a retirement visa, you only need to have your 800.000 Baht on the account for 2 months, from your renewal (i.e. the 2nd year) you must have your 800.000 Baht on the account for 3 months
Philip,
Three months after granting the year extension.
That is not the same as the 2nd year.
The first period for the money in a Thai account has always been 2 months instead of three. This was precisely to be able to open a bank account and the like, after which the three-month requirement only followed when extending the stay on an annual basis.
After March 1, 2019, the period for both the first application and for an extension of the stay has become 2 months. So no distinction is made anymore.
Please note that after March 1, 2019, the following things have also changed; The full amount of Baht 800.000 must still be unused in the account three months after the date of granting a residence permit or extension thereof. This full amount is therefore fixed for a total period of 5 months. For the following 7 months, i.e. up to 2 months before the next extension of the stay, the balance on the used account may not fall below Baht 400.000 and that money can therefore not be used for anything else without the next extension of stay. endangers the stay itself.
Dear Rens, is that so?
As far as I know, even after March 1, 2019, when extending based on your annual retirement extension, there is still 3K in your Thai bank account 800 months before the renewal date.
Only the first time it is 2 months when you transfer from your home country obtained class o visa at the Thai embassy..
Jan Beute.
Dear Jan, I have tried to copy and paste the English version of the new police order, but I can't. Fortunately, “RonnyLatYa” has also explained this aspect in his explanation of this police order and it mentions 2 months before the date of extension and 3 months after that. Also from what I have read on other boards, they now also assume that the 3-month requirement will expire. If it were still three months, it would mean that part of the deposited money would not be available for 6 months and then for 6 months, at least until the minimum amount of Baht 400.000 had to remain in the account at all times. How this will all work out in practice I don't know, I'll be curious to be honest.
I'll just add the link to Ronny LatYa's explanation, see point 4 there.
https://www.thailandblog.nl/visumvraag/nieuwe-retirement-regels/
Jan,
That was indeed the case and is still the case today.
But on March 1, the new rules will come into force and then there will no longer be any talk about first or subsequent applications.
It is then always two months before the application until 3 months after the extension has been granted. If both are on the same day, your 800 Baht will have to remain on the account for 000 months. At immigration offices that work with an “under consideration stamp”, this can quickly take up to 5 months.
You can then drop the remaining period to one of 400 Baht if you wish.
It is currently unknown how this will all be tackled in practice.
Perhaps it will not be checked effectively after three months or at any time and the check will only be done with a follow-up application. The consequences can then be in refusing a new year extension if you have not met the request.
It can be even crazier: for the retirement visa they ask for a Thai bank account with 800.000 bath. But I was told at seven, really 7, banks that the condition to open a bank account is a… retirement visa.
At the eighth office I was finally able to open an account, but I'm not even going to try to get a retirement visa like that and make do with 90 days.
If they keep doing this, I'll probably look elsewhere.
And now again: the COMBINATION is still possible. If you don't have enough income, you don't have to have 800.000 Baht in an account, but the difference. If you only had 40.000 Baht in income, you would have to have an extra 12×25000 Baht = 300.000 Baht in an account. However, this was until recently. Now you have to leave a minimum amount of 400.000 Baht in the account. That applies now whether you have 60.000 Baht per month or no income at all. Both amounts together on an annual basis: your income and your capital must then amount to 800.000 Baht at the time you submit the application.
I also thought I had read that with a FIRST application you may also have this amount on an account for a shorter period of time.
No Jack.
The amount you submit on the day of application must remain in the account for three months.
If that is 300 Baht on the day of application, you will not be allowed to arrive at that amount.
Probably, because it is under 400 000 Baht, you will not be allowed to touch it for the rest of the year.
And first request no longer exists… it is always TWO months.
Ronny, there's so much talk on the internet right now, it's hard to find the real rules. I find more and more information that there is no longer a combination as it used to be.
There really isn't any clarity on this.
What is clear is that you can stay here with 65000 Baht per month and if you are married to a Thai with 40.000 Baht.
Still no problem for me personally.
To deal with all this hassle, some people have to apply for 90-day visas and leave the country again and again? Do they have to apply for a new visa every time?
I really feel bad for those people. Most of the Thai population has to live with much less and I know of many women that they are also happy with a man who has less, but regular income.
The scheme to put an end to scams is a slap in the face to many who are not so well off.
Jack,
It is stated in the new rules that the combination method still exists.
Read the article I wrote about it
https://www.thailandblog.nl/visumvraag/nieuwe-retirement-regels/
“Must have and ANNUAL EARNING AND FUND DEPOSITED with a commercial bank in Thailand TOTALING of no less than THB 800,000 until the filing date. The fund said must remain in the account prior to and after the permission is granted and the alien can make a withdrawal under the same conditions as stated in 4.
A ANNUAL INCOME AND A BANK AMOUNT. TOGETHER this must be 800 000 Baht on the day of application….”
I myself have drawn the conclusion in the text that it must be in the bank 2 months before and three months after the application date, given that it is also used for a “Retirement”. But if you were to take it literally, that amount that you show with the application must always remain there. Except if that amount would be 500 Baht, for example. Then you can drop to 000 Baht after three months. However, if it is, for example, 400 Baht, then I think you can no longer touch it all year round.
Those are things she needs to get right.
In any case, you can expect that it will be the same at one office and different at the other office. This is also due to the unclear guidelines from the creators to the implementers.
And yes, for a certain group it will then be back to Non-immigrant “O” Multiple entry and the corresponding “border runs” every 90 days.
By the way, apart from this I was just reading an article on Thaivisa regarding “Thai marriage” in Chaeng Wattana.
Maybe good to know for those who use CW.
There they apparently introduced a new rule that is separate from all new rules.
If you now apply for a “Thai Marriage” there, you will first receive an “under consideration stamp” of 30 days. So far nothing new.
But now when you come back after those 30 days, to get your final stamp, you also have to show an update of your bankbook that those 400 000 Baht (if used for a “Thai marriage”) is still there on state. Is there any rule that this has to be done. They just introduced them from one day to the next.
Perhaps other immigration offices have been applying this for some time. I don't know but I would like to know if that is the case.
And so you see, in recent weeks everyone has been throwing new rules.
I've said it before. I expect a delay or complete chaos in the introduction of the rules. And since delay equals loss of face….
Ronny, I may be a little heavy hearted on this one.
From this here: “Must have and ANNUAL EARNING AND FUND DEPOSITED with a commercial bank in Thailand TOTALING of no less than THB 800,000 until the filing date. The fund said must remain in the account prior to and after the permission is granted and the alien can make a withdrawal under the same conditions as stated in 4”.
So you must have a total amount of 800.000 Baht (with this combination). So if you write that that combination exists, it will certainly mean: the total number of deposits in the Thai bank (or the total sum of your income) together with your capital in the bank must be 800.000 baht or more.
You don't have 800.000 Baht at that moment. And that money must remain there for the next three months. How does that work? You have your income, on which you have to live, but the requirement is that 800.000 remain unchanged…
This is what I can't handle.
So can you live off that money? Then you do not meet the requirements of the 800.000 Baht, because in fact you have already spent all that money???
I'm sorry this is so difficult for me....
I agree with you that they put it unclearly on paper. It seems that you must have an income and a bank amount in the bank, but that is not the case. Then they might as well have said that 800 Baht must be in the bank. It doesn't matter what source it comes from.
But nothing has actually changed in the “combination method”. At least not how you use the system. However, it will have to be longer with regard to the bank amount part.
The amount must therefore together represent 800 Baht in combination of annual income and bank amount:
Example 1.
You have an annual income of say 300 Baht. You prove that by a “visa support letter”, not by an actual amount in the bank.
To get to 800 Baht, you must supplement that proof of income with an actual bank amount of 000 Baht. That amount of 500 Baht must be accrued 000 months before the application, until three months after the grant. After those three months you can use that bank amount, as long as you don't go below 500 Baht, because that must always be there according to point 000 they refer to.
Example 2
You have an annual income of say 600 Baht. You prove this by a “Visa Support Letter”, not by an actual amount in the bank.
To get to the 800 Baht, you must supplement that proof of income with an actual bank amount of 000 Baht. That amount of 200 Baht must be accrued 000 months before the application, until three months after the grant. However, given that the amount you used as a bank account is less than 200 Baht, you will probably not be allowed to touch it for the rest of the year. This again according to point 000.
I hope that's a bit more clear.
Personally I think the following.
(Not written anywhere, just a twist of my own mind)
It says “….the alien can make a withdrawal under the same conditions as stated in 4”.”
Here they are a bit unclear to me. They simply refer to point four 4, but that concerns when a bank amount of 800 000 Baht is used and that can then be reduced by half to 400 000 Baht. So they simply take over that 400 Baht, but without taking into account that the bank amount for the combination is always lower than 000 Baht.
(Otherwise the combination would not be necessary)
Think or hope for many that they correct it and that after three months the amount that is proven when applying for a combination may also drop to half.
For Example 1 that would be up to 250 Baht and for Example 000 up to 2 Baht.
Again, these are just personal thoughts, it's not written anywhere.
Thanks Ronny, it's clear to me now. I hope it has become clearer to others too… it is not an immediate cause for panic, but as I wrote before, it will be difficult for some, especially with such short notice. If they had indicated that this would only take place in, for example, 2020, there would still be enough people who could find a way to obtain the required amounts.
Anyway, there is still that 90 Day visa….
The Best
It might be better to call the Thai consulate in Antwerp just to be sure.
+32 495 22 99 00
MVG
Daniel
What does a year extension have to do with the Antwerp consulate???????
Dear Daniel, I asked that in Antwerp, when I went to apply for my Visa, Non Immigrant O, single Entry, 2018 days in November 90. For any extension you want to apply for, you MUST always be in the immigration office where you are staying in Thailand. I think RonnyLatYa can confirm this. What I do wonder is whether you are REQUIRED to have this done at the Immigration office where you have reported your arrival before applying for an extension. (Required within 24 hours of arrival with Form TM 30.) NOT applicable if you are staying at Hotel, they must report arrival notification to Immigration office. If you are married to a Thai and you are staying at that address, she or he must report your arrival. If you are the owner yourself, you must also report this yourself when you rent a home, lease in your name.
You must apply for an extension at the immigration office of your place of residence.
ie where your address is officially known by immigration.
And your official residence is known by a :
– TM30 – Notification form for house-master, owner or the possessor of the residence where alien
has stayed.
– TM 47 – Form for alien to notify of staying longer than 90 days
– TM 28 – Form for aliens to notify their change of address
– Yellow Tabien Job
To confirm that address, you will then have to enclose a copy of your place of residence when applying for an extension. Possible rental contract, etc
What I'm saying is that you can't just pop in somewhere along the way to arrange your year extension. You will also have to prove that you have your residence there.
Dear Ronny, If I understand correctly, as soon as I register with (TM 30) in Saraburi, where my wife lives and where I am now staying, I cannot apply for the extension for 60 days in Pattaya, where I also regularly few weeks stay, (the Condo is also owned by my wife.) Thanks in advance.
The moment you are officially registered in Pattaya, you can also submit the application in Pattaya with your wife's condo as proof of address. But a TM30 will also have to be drawn up for Pattaya. For immigration you officially stay there.
What I don't think will be possible is to ask for a year extension in Pattaya with an address from Saraburi.
Maybe for a 60-day extension (married to a Thai) because they are more flexible then, but normally that will not work for year extensions.
But you will always have to report first that you are staying in Pattaya and you will be back at the first.
Dear Ronny, I have 1 more question. If I apply for a year extension, (married to a Thai) I suppose I can extend it every year, 30 days before expiration at the immigration office where I am staying. VB. I am now staying in Thailand with my Non Immigrant O, single Entry, 90 days until 02 April 2019, let's assume I already have 400.000 baht in a Thai account. I apply for a year extension on March 01.(delivery time +-15 days I read here before) Can I still apply for a multiple reentry permit before I leave (on April 02)? and how long can I stay in Belgium before I have to return to Thailand. The intention is that after a 3 month stay in Belgium I will use the reentry permit for the 1st time, for a stay of another 90 days in Thailand, from the end of June to the end of September, then again in Belgium for 3 months and then for the 2nd make use of the Reentry permit before departure on 02-01-2020 until 02 April 2020. From the beginning of March 2020 I can then apply for my new annual extension again. Is my reasoning correct on this point, please. Now I have to apply for a Visa from Blankenberge to Antwerp 2 times a year and also pay 2 times the costs for relocation, it will also be much easier for me if I can arrange the extension every year in Thailand, because I am disabled and have mobility issues. With thanks.
That delivery time of 15 days does not come from me and is rather optimistic.
Just assume that if you get an “Under consideration stamp” first, a period of 30 days will be observed between request and delivery.
If no “under consideration stamp” is given, you will get it immediately or maybe the next day
As soon as you receive the annual extension, you can immediately request a Multiple Re-entry. It is valid for one year as long as your renewal. There is little point before that, because you will not have your annual extension yet.
In an emergency, you can also quickly request a Single Re-entry at the airport.
You can actually stay in Belgium as long as you want after departure. You just have to make sure you are in Thailand before April 2 next year to apply for a new year extension. Between April 2, 2019 and April 2, 2020, you can travel between Belgium and Thailand as much as you want and you can stay in Belgium or Thailand as long as you want.
All possible with that year extension and Multiple Re-entry.
If you come back later than April 2 next year, your annual extension has expired and is gone. Start everything again.
I understand that you are not very mobile, but why do you go to Antwerp twice a year with a visa.
As a married person, you can also apply for a Non-immigrant “O” Multiple entry in Antwerp. Costs 150 Euros. And you can have your passport sent home afterwards with your visa.
That visa has a validity period of one year and with each entry you get a new stay of 90 days. Fits perfectly into your travel planning.
And you don't have to have or leave anything on the couch in Thailand.
A year extension in Thailand costs 1900 Baht (52 Euro).
A Multiple re-entry 3800 Baht (105 Euro).
Together 154 Euros….
You might want to think about it, but that's a personal choice.
Then I wonder whether that can also be a and / or total account / savings account.
You will have to see locally what they want to accept.
There are no regulations for from above.
-and/or account: also called a mixed account, so in the name of two persons: is not accepted. The account used for immi must be in YOUR own name only. Clearly stated in immigration law.
- savings account or term account: Fixed Deposit Account: this depends on the Immi Officer. It is accepted in most places, but must also be in your own name alone. The immigration legislation does not specify what type of account it should be: saving or fixed account.
-total account: as far as I know not known in Thailand or available for ordinary citizens or expats.
It's starting to get a bit unclear to me about keeping a retirement visa with the new requirements as of March 1st.
To date, I never state my total income when obtaining an extension of a new retirement visa (due to a possible future link between the files of the immigration and the tax authorities.), but always (so every year) a total amount that just above the annual income of over Thbt 800.000. Always well covered by the letter from the Dutch embassy.
As an extra, last year I showed a special bank book on which I always have Thbt 100.000 .- if the exchange rate of the euro is currently the case. Counted together almost Thbt 900.000-
The amount that I declare each year is covered by the confirmation from the Dutch embassy.
Always goes well! Visa issued !
Now the question regarding the new rules:
If I show the bank book at a future renewal, which states that a minimum of Thb 65000 per month has been transferred from a Dutch bank to my Thai bank account, which I therefore only use to obtain an annual renewal (= total Thbt 780.000) and in addition to the same Thai bank but on a different account number (also for this special purpose of obtaining a visa, so for no other destination) show the special bank book that always shows the amount of that Thbt 100.000 (or possibly more if the euro drops even more) and both passbooks then at immigration with a new application, do I meet the new requirements?
Your reaction please
Why are you making it difficult?
Take the visa support letter which shows that you have 65 000 Baht and that is fine.
And above all continues to act normal instead of walking around with that persecution frenzy about those taxes.
But that visa support letter doesn't prove that you transferred that stated amount to a Thai bank account, does it?
And you have to prove that fact as of March 1, right?
Then you need your bank book for that, don't you?
No, with that visa support letter you only need to prove that you have an income of at least 65.000 baht per month. Nothing will change on March 1
Chelsea; Proof of income of at least Baht 65000 is requested as an option to obtain or extend a stay. The proof is the embassy letter which is still accepted from the Netherlands. This is therefore sufficient without actually having transferred the money to a Thai account.
No, you make it yourself. The letter of support is not requested to prove the Thai bank account, nor vice versa. Or you use the bet. letter or you use ThB 65K per month or you use ThB 800K. The change is that this amount remains in the account for at least 2 months before and 3 months after the award, and after those 3 months at least ThB 400K.
What you are doing now is to mix up the whole issue and thus confuse one with the other. What does the Immigration care whether you have that extra booklet, or whether you have no other use for it, as you so plastically describe it? They ask for ThB 800K, not ThB 900K. And how do you arrive at the fact that files from the Thai Immigration are linked to those from the Dutch tax authorities?
You do not have to prove that deposit if you have a visa support letter.
It is proof of monthly deposit
OF
proof of income.
This is the only document available at this time as far as I know.
https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1076820-confirmed-here-is-exactly-what%E2%80%99s-needed-for-retirement-marriage-extensions-income-method-from-2019/
Have a look
2.22 Retirement and then right in the Procedures column
Under “Evidence showing income Evidence not less than 65000 Baht monthly includes ;
Then you see that point 1 ends with OR and not with AND
So it is either one OR the other.
Dear RonnyLatYa,
“And above all, continue to act normal instead of walking around with that persecution frenzy about those taxes”
I meant to clarify about a possible future link between the THAI immigration office and the THAI tax office and NOT with the DUTCH tax office.
Indeed, the latter will never happen.
People always come back to those taxes and the fear of them.
You could do that for years if you wanted to.
Such as taxing everyone who resides here as “Retired” on a flat-rate amount of 800 Baht and the married person on a flat-rate amount of 000 Baht.
They don't need anything, because you have met the financial requirements of an annual extension by showing or proving those amounts. To be paid upon application.
If they want you to pay taxes, they will find you. Don't worry.
How bad can people read. The House of Representatives has just abolished the math test for young people: I advocate giving pensioners a reading test before they leave for Thailand. In addition, I also advocate leaving the answering of immigration questions solely to RonnyLatYa, as RobV does with Schengen issues.
It was never said that the embassy letter of support had to be fulfilled by bank books. That all stems from speculation, assumptions, and assumptions in the many responses when it comes to issues like this.
Let's keep the discussion clean: don't all react to each other with your own inventions and interpretations. That prevents panic as now at Chelsea or recently at TheoS.
One big mess made by Big Joekel. I was advised to apply for a Marriage Extension but after reading the comments on TVF and here on the blog I decided to return to NL. Can then go to Thailand for 8 months and 4 months in the Netherlands, after 42 years in Thailand and 32 years of marriage. I'm sick and tired of that fiddling with those Thai immigration who jump from one thing to the next as far as requirements are concerned. I advise anyone who wants to live in Thailand NOT to do this. Had a good time but all things must come to an end.
What a pity that if you do not have your own affairs in order to advise someone else, who may have, not to live in Thailand.
Dear Theo,
More than 40 Years. Thailand and then back to the Netherlands 4 months Netherlands, 8 months thThailand Thailand.
Were you still registered in the Netherlands all that time? And what is the advantage of 4 at 8 with regard to the emigration hassle. Would love to know, hope you will share your experience on this one. Sincerely, Hendrik.
How so? Why? Immigration doesn't care, does it? If you come to Thailand every year for 8 months, you must also extend your stay with Immigration, for example on the basis of Thai marriage, being ThB 40K p.mnd, and then with a re-entry in and out.
The only advantage is that you can be registered again in the Netherlands, compulsory insurance with the “health insurance fund”, also costs money, and EUR 600 minimum for a plane ticket. Take EUR 80 premium, EUR 50 ticket, rent in the Netherlands, municipal taxes, third-party insurance, all kinds of utilities: you are not cheaper, and this route has no added value whatsoever. Unless you want to be insured for health insurance again.
Don't let your old age drive you crazy: wait and see how the hares will run. If you have always stayed on retirement in Thailand, Thai marriage should also work. Can you just stay with your family and relatives. Don't you have anyone around you with whom you can put everything together? Surely you already learned how to act from RonnyLatYa. Then stick to that, and don't go looking for ghost images. If you make a decision emotionally now, you will regret it later.
Good day,
Why make it so difficult?
Just deposit that 800.000 bht into an account and enjoy it.
If you leave Thailand for any reason, you still have a nest egg.
And for the rest just get by with your benefits.
Oh yes, your Dutch insurance will also expire, keep this in mind as well.
We're getting a little older.
Peter, there is a lot of panic among the expats, I also read it on Thaivisa. Many people have come here with the idea of living in paradise for an apple and an egg (acquaintances in the Netherlands still look at me in disbelief when I tell them what it costs to live normally in Thailand). With art and flying, many have managed to maintain their visa legally or illegally through shady visa agencies in recent years, but with the expensive baht, and the ever-decreasing euro and pound, there is no stopping it in the long run - unless you are so have a 22,000 euros in the Thai bank. Many expats I know can't even afford Thai health insurance, don't have any buvver –
Then there is nothing left but to (try!) to go back to the home country.
You won't get there with a single (often reduced) state pension, of which the levy allowance has now also lapsed….
Sorry, the ev doesn't work!!