AOW and proof that one is alive
At the monthly meeting of the Dutch Thailand Association, Pattaya section, two representatives of the Social Insurance Bank come to explain why state pensioners in Thailand have to prove that they are still alive in a rather cumbersome manner.
After our chairman introduced our guests Maarten van Zeeben and Natascha Endema, Mr. van Zeeben first explains why the Netherlands has engaged the Social Security Office of Thailand to act as an intermediary between the customer (us) and the office in Roermond.
Thailand Social Security Office
Until 2004, the Netherlands had no tax treaty with Thailand and this would result in the Netherlands levying more tax than if it concerned a country with such a treaty. When concluding the treaty, Thailand made it a condition that the Netherlands would use the SSO. This remains strange, especially since other pension companies apparently can do without this construction.
To this day, the system is that after receiving a form to prove his life, the customer submits to a competent authority, usually Immigration, who puts a stamp on it. We then send this approved form by post to the nearest SSO office, which then forwards it to the Netherlands. Some people personally went to this office, but it was not necessary. In the Netherlands, complaints came from both their customers and the SSO, which is why the above method will be changed from July.
Of course this will be explained to the pensioners in writing, but we are now hearing about the change. We receive the form in question again, but after that it will be different. Everyone must personally go to an SSO office or to the embassy in Bangkok. They check whether the completed form matches the passport of the person who is alive and then we have to send the form to the Netherlands ourselves. The question whether this form can be sent by e-mail in this digital age has not yet been answered positively. It will therefore become even more complicated for AOW pensioners than it already is.
Questions
Some more questions to be answered. Can you prove that you are alive when staying in the Netherlands? No, because you are bound by the date on which you receive the form. Does the visit to the embassy cost money? No, it's free. Some people arrange their income statement via the SSO. Is this also via a personal visit? No, this can be handled by post. How do you find the address of the nearest SSO office? Via the website. At home it turns out that this is more difficult than expected. I can't find addresses. For people in Pattaya, this is the Talaythong tower in Laem Chabang.
Here is the address list of the offices of the SSO:http://www.sso.go.th/wpr/eng/contactus.html
Hi Hans,
proof of life via SSO to SVB I understand, I've been doing this for two years. However, what does SVB have to do with income statement? You need that paper to extend your annual visa and therefore do not have to be sent to the Netherlands.
In an earlier response I already indicated that I would find it very interesting if SSO could guarantee my signature so that I do not have to make a trip to the Dutch Embassy in Bangkok. If you could explain this further I would greatly appreciate it.
Greetings from Korat,
RobN
Hi Hans,
small addition because maybe read too quickly. By income statement do you mean what SVB wants? What shows that no changes have taken place and that you still want to receive the same benefit? Apologies for any misinterpretation.
Regards,
RobN
It is quite normal for that to happen, with the SVB everything is possible, even stopping your state pension very quickly. You have to live in Romania then you can commit fraud freely, last year 1,2 billion. They can't just stop that because they are not Dutch.
If you live in Thailand then it is a different matter and because the SVB papers do not arrive, your benefits will be stopped because you have not sent them back. We live in the digital age. But not the SVB. why would they, bullying fellow countrymen and making life miserable is a lot of fun. I am not against control, but I am against the way in which it is done...And opening an SSO office in a place where very few Dutch people live and in a city like Pattaya where there are very many is ridiculous. And yes, there are certainly many elderly people who really have problems getting there, due to their illnesses and old age problems. Because it is certainly not next door. And the information provision is simply very poor. Socially, the Netherlands is descending into a banana republic. Tackle the real fraudsters. Not that small group of people who officially live here and do not commit fraud.
@ Dick Koger
Thank you for the information!
Many older expats can no longer travel for health reasons. How does the SVB intend to solve this??? Will they send an air-conditioned car with a driver? Or will an inspector visit in person in such a case?
It's really unbelievable. It seems that the SVB takes a sadistic pleasure in making the lives of pensioners in Thailand as difficult as possible.
Dear Jan Greep, many older expats can really travel. That there are harrowing cases cannot be denied, but they too will somehow have the opportunity to travel to the embassy in Bangkok with the help of friends, acquaintances or otherwise his (much) younger wife or relative of hers. . Why should the SVB solve this?
Add another day to Bangkok and travel back the next day, you name it.
Come on, don't be so "sad" right away.
@SirCharles,
Read carefully first, then respond. I'm talking about old expats who can no longer physically travel, expats with dementia and/or disabled expats. And therefore clearly not about the expats who can still do that. I know about ten expats in my area alone who are no longer able to travel. And certainly not by public transport. So according to you, they will have to arrange for themselves to be transported in a car or ambulance and then have a "fun" day in BKK. And no, not every elderly expat has a “much” younger wife. That comment is entirely your responsibility.
This reminds me of the new procedure for obtaining proof of income. For this, expats from all over Thailand had to travel to BKK. Due to the intervention of Hans Bos and Pujai, the procedure was changed at the time and things can now be done by post. You too now benefit from this.
And yes, of course the SVB should solve this, after all they are initiating changes that many older expats are now at risk of falling victim to. That is, if the above information from Dick is correct.
See that's what I mean. I am not a columnist but an ordinary reader or commenter.
My sincere apologies that it came across incorrectly, but as a side note I would like to say don't make the AOW and SVB issues worse than they are.
Deliver proof of life in person at the SSO in Leam Chabang for people from the Chonburi area. This is for people who receive benefits from the SVB and participate in the ABP. It is of course ridiculous that other pension funds do not go along with this. The SSO sends the forms to the SVB and passes on the data to the ABP. It is absolutely not true that you have to send in those forms yourself.
For people who cannot come themselves for health reasons, a statement from a doctor is sufficient for the SSO.
Come on other pension funds. Join that.
J. Jordan.
In addition the following:
In the past, your Dutch partner could go to Immigration to get a stamp for both “declarations of life”. (perhaps one of the reasons why things are about to change). That is now no longer possible. You have to go to Laem Chabang in person.
Once a year with a chartered baht van for 200/300 baht will go for everyone. In case of real immobility, a solution can be found through a doctor's statement.
Josh Wegner
What I don't understand is that you can't send via email
even i get a small part 20 percent of what i missed 10 years
from the SVB of Curacao to my Bank Account here in the Netherlands
I myself come from Aruba and at the time when I went to the Netherlands, it fell
under the Netherlands Antilles. All I have to do is go to the church
go and request an Attestation de Vita, being alive with a stamp and
signed. Just scan at home for SVB Curacao and Bingo, they are on curacao
satisfied and I here in the Netherlands. I don't think you can do that in Thailand
strange, just go to Laem Chabang for a signed Attestation de Vita pick up
and provided with a stamp and scanned to SVB Netherlands. It seems like one to me
bit old-fashioned in this day and age of digital business.
Good luck I would say.
There is of course much to be said about the clumsy way in which things are arranged with regard to proof of being alive for the benefit of the SVB.
Ever since I started living in Thailand, I personally go to the SSO office in Laem Chabang every year after I first had the form signed and stamped by the Royal Thai Immigration in Jomtien.
A rather cumbersome way that takes a lot of time, why is the SSO employee not authorized to determine that the person is alive for her?
Please give that lady a nice stamp, ink and a stamp pad.
In addition to the completed and signed proof of life, one is required to enclose copies of the wife's passport and Thai ID card.
The last time, however, I also had to come up with our son's birth certificate before the proof of life was sent to Roermond.
When I asked what this was for and whether I also received child benefit, the lady was unable to answer and all she said was that it would not be sent before the birth certificate had reached her, fortunately I could do this by fax.
Another story is that the Thai Post just throws its hat at it, important mail often does not arrive, including proof of being alive.
After calling twice about this, emailing twice and sending 2 letter to Roermond, I still didn't have the form.
Eventually I got a call from Roermond regarding my complaint and I asked them why such a form is not easy to download from their site?
No, that option did not exist, but it could be sent by email.
Fortunately, I later found the form on "My Government" in my personal mailbox and was able to print it out, the original (2 x sent from Roermond) is probably still in the dark recesses of the Thai Post, as well as my new bank card and pin code.
So this is the less cheerful side of Thailand.
I also had a lot of trouble with mail that didn't arrive. Take mailbox solution
There has been a treaty to prevent double taxation since 1975/76, so the SVB's starting point is a myth.
Indeed, that story about double taxation is SVB bullshit, because you pay income tax in the Netherlands on your state pension if you live in Thailand. Increased again on January 1.
They work for the SVB and are just as bad at providing clear, consistent information as the SVB itself. If you call the SVB in the Netherlands, don't be surprised to hear something different every time. Listening and working on a solution is very difficult for the SVB. And if you are lucky that they solve it, you are unlucky again because they will change it but you will not be informed. Received a letter from the SVB in response to a complaint. But by the time I received the decision from the SVB, the content was no longer correct and it had already changed completely. Nice, but it does make you despondent.
Live in Nakhon Ratchasima and there is an SSO office there. Can simply go there with my life statement from SVB. SSO sends it to SVB itself and informs my pension fund (not ABP but another).
Also read in part that some arrange their income statement via SSO, I would like to know more about that.
I would like to refer the reader to the NVTHC website (www.nvthc.com). An email has been posted there from the SVB employee in response to a number of written questions. For people from Hua Hin and the surrounding area: SSO has an office every Tuesday and Thursday morning in Hua Hin on Pethkasem Road against furniture store WINNER (large red billboard with white letters).
The SSO in Hua Hin has been open for quite some time from Monday to Friday, both mornings and afternoons
Have just experienced the problem personally, must provide proof of life to the ABP otherwise ……. The consulate in Chiang Mai is closed for budget reasons and therefore I would have to go to Bangkok to have my proof drawn up / signed there that means signing, placing a stamp, 10 seconds of work and costs about 1200 baht. If you are looking for alternatives and have the courage to call the NL embassy, you will be spoken to in English with the statement that you should ask your questions via email, I could speak to a Dutch-speaking employee on my question then I can explain it better. THIS WAS IMPOSSIBLE must be via email. So if I want an explanation and have questions about any subject, I have to speak English and have a PC and the operator then determines whether she will connect you based on the subject. RIDICULOUS
Submitted a complaint to the consulate and got the answer our working language is English and we are so busy that we can't speak to everyone no more and no less that's it. That little bit of pride in the Netherlands has now fallen to a minimum that they want to cut costs ok that they cannot find an NL-speaking operator ok but that the operator has been instructed to dismiss those difficult Dutch people with questions I object to, if everything is being Thai should be fine, but also take the salary of a Thai. Went to the German consulate in Chiang Mai and received excellent help there. In Chiang Mai in the City Hall there is also a branch of the SVB bank, whoever has to deal with the SVB can have a proof of life drawn up there without any problems. In the past there were many problems with the embassy, but they have learned nothing from it, the arrogance radiates. Now I must also honestly say that I have been in contact with Mrs. Devici and she has helped me exceptionally well. So it is possible
The Dutch embassy sent me an invitation. . in English, even to a Dutchman !!. The SVB sends my papers to my Dutch address where I have not lived for 3 years. I have been deregistered in the Netherlands!!. You can also go to a lawyer in Chaing Mai. That also seems to be accepted (I heard)
To all the lucky people living in great Thailand with their retirement.
Wouldn't it be true that many people have died over the years,
from which AOW and or Pension is attempted to be collected?
and I'm not thinking specifically about Thailand.
So to prevent fraud, one must report in person.
Greetings from a cloudy Netherlands.
It just might! There may be some relatives who want to benefit, but I don't think many.
In fact, there are only about 250 people in the Chonburi region who receive state pension from the Netherlands. I think a multitude lives here more or less illegally. So they opt for cheap health insurance while living almost permanently in Thailand.
It may well happen once in a while, but standing policy is always to make all honest people suffer for the mistakes of a few.
In addition, almost all foreigners are examined after their death in a Thai hospital for the cause of death and their death is reported to the embassy. The Dutch government is therefore aware. It would be a small effort to report the death to, for example, the SVB. Sometimes one will slip through the cracks of the net.
nonsense Nowadays you can log in via Skype, Facebook etc via webcam and people can see you via the webcam and ask questions and you cannot commit fraud with that. Because if you have died, unfortunately you cannot yet log in here via Skippe or Facebook with your webcam and report yourself as being alive. Look at the easy abuse of social services in the Netherlands by foreigners and what amounts to millions... Why does it have to be made so difficult for us? I have no objection at all to inspections, but in a good, reliable and consistent manner. And not as it is now with all kinds of contradictory messages from the SO office and the SVB in the Netherlands. When I asked who is the boss and in charge, the SVB was able to tell me wholeheartedly that they were. the SVB. But if the SO office sets additional requirements, then yes, unfortunately peanut butter, there is little the SVB can do about it. Do you still understand, I don't anymore.
A few straightening, stamping a lifestyle at the Embassy costs money and not a little bit too.
Chonburi immigration is free and stamping for my wife and me, then with the life certificate and income statement to the SSO in Laem Chabang, scan this first and place it on a flash drive, then upstairs-2nd floor-where the lady in question checks it and signed, these forms are then signed again by a higher authority of the SSO and then sent to Roermond.
Embassy does not stamp for my Thai wife, Amphur did not, police chief wanted nothing to do with that, so Immigration (then soi 8 Pattaya).
Also this: After a question whether it could be sent to the SSO by post, the answer was negative and had to come in person. If ill or something like that, my wife could come with a doctor's statement and after checking whether it was genuine, the relevant forms would be processed to be taken.
The SVB-Roermond takes devilish pleasure in making the lives of AOWers as miserable as possible
Wish all AOWers continued success
If it is important mail, send it with, for example, DHL. (UPC) Costs a bit, but are you sure that your letters will arrive within 3 days and that the receipt is recorded in black and white.
I have good experiences with it.
Frank
The SVB shines and is fantastic in the field of bad information, often customer unfriendly. Make everything more difficult if necessary. Often not listening carefully and not correctly assessing the problem. Not keeping up with the digital age. Everything could be arranged via the digital highway and to prevent fraud one could, for example, contact the SVB once a year and via the webcam one could then see that the person is still alive, because one sees the person and speaks to them. along. Easy and cheap to buy and possible for many elderly and young people. But with the SVB it works just like with taxes. Why should we make it easy if it can be done in a difficult way? I have very bad mobility, a Rheumatism patient and for me it is quite a ride to that high building in Leam Chabang. Cost me 1 baht and a lot of annoyance and when I got back, I was pretty much wrecked... And you often become despondent from all the conflicting information. Both from the SO office and from the SVB. Called several times about the fact that the address list of the SO offices in Thailand is incorrect. SO says you have to appear in person. SVB recently informed me in writing that this is not necessary, but send it by post. Now I read that people have been to the NPV and things have changed again. I have not heard anything from the SVB. There is a lot of bullshit going on with the Dutch in Thailand. Why not have an SO office in Pattaya? There are many more Dutch people living there than in Lem Chabang. Or just log in via Skijpe with webcam once or twice a year and you will see the person and everything can be arranged online. But yes, that will remain a dream.
Hoi
I went to the SSO in Lap Lae on April 24 to get my paper alive. I was helped well and with understanding. The man who had to sign was not there. A large meeting in Uttaradit. No problem, we went there with the car and driver service. .Man signed and sent everything by EMS mail myself.
Cost 800.bath. better go yourself for that once a year. My pilotage pension is satisfied with a stamp from the Uttaradit police station.
Send yourself.
Regards John
The most complicated thing about the SVB is that they always send me the papers to my old Dutch address, while on the inside they mention my address in Thailand. It's time for them at the SVB to wake up and notice that I haven't lived in the Netherlands for 3 years. Good morning SVB-hellooooo. . you can wake up NOW!!