Thailand Visa question No. 161/21: CoE and new passport
Questioner: Lonnie
You have provided me with good advice several times, thank you. Also this time I hope to be able to use your expertise.
My challenge is the following, I returned to the Netherlands on July 5, 2021, to fulfill my 4 months stay in the Netherlands.
I would like to go to Thailand again in November, if the rules in force at that time allow it. But my passport is full.
There is still room for an entry stamp, and also for an exit stamp, but not for a new extension of stay and re-entry permit. They take 2 pages for that (I assume that the last pages, printed with text, cannot be used, but I don't really know).
Contact with the Thai embassy in The Hague shows that I can only upload 1 document at the CoE, which will probably also be needed in November. So, either my current passport, with my extension and re-entry permit, valid until May 4, 2022 (passport valid until December 30, 2024), or my new passport, possibly with a declaration from the municipality that my new passport is my replace old one. The question is whether that will be accepted by Thai immigration. I can only find anything about such a statement from the Dutch embassy in Bangkok.
I fear that in the latter case I will lose my extension and re-entry, because I will not be able to upload it. Even if the municipality has not punched holes in it. I suspect that I will have to apply for a non-immigrant O visa again, since I will be staying in Thailand for +/- 7 months. I know that I can then apply for a new extension of stay and re-entry permit at immigration. I can also enter with my current passport and apply for a new passport + statement at the embassy in Bangkok. Although I don't know whether I need to have empty pages in my passport upon entry, so I don't have any, except for those printed pages.
Moreover, I live in Khon Kaen, so that is also difficult.
In all cases it costs extra money, applying for a passport + statement in Thailand is more than 100 euros more expensive than in the Netherlands, and applying for a new visa in the Netherlands is also at least 70 euros, if I remember correctly. And I lose the extension that I now have, and of course also paid for.
Can you advise me on how best to act? Where I mainly think of what is most easily accepted by Thai immigration, little extra costs is of course also nice, but that is point 2 for me. Point 1 is really what is best accepted by immigration.
Perhaps there are other readers who have had this at hand?
Thanks in advance for advice.
Reaction RonnyLatYa
If you can only upload one passport, you do indeed have a problem.
In normal circumstances it is no problem to leave with 2 passports (new and old). You then show both the new passport and the old passport with the period of stay still valid at check-in and at immigration.
At immigration you will be given a period of stay that corresponds to your re-entry in the old passport. The entry stamp will be placed in your new passport. Afterwards, go to your immigration office to have all other details transferred from your old passport to your new one. From that moment on you no longer need the old passport. Pretty simple. But the problem now is that of course you first have to obtain a CoE. This is issued on the basis of, among other things, your passport and a visa, a residence period already obtained (Re-entry) or a Visa exemption. In your case, the details of residence are in another (old) passport and you cannot upload two passports (new-old).
That is actually a problem that the embassy should solve. I have no experience with a CoE, but thought it was delivered by the embassy itself. They can solve that easily, you think, by possibly receiving the data of your old passport, which contains your period of stay, via a different route.
If the CoE is delivered by Thailand itself, it is a bit more difficult, but they should raise this problem with that authority. The problem is therefore that CoE is obtained.
You've actually already given options.
– New passport Netherlands and also new visa
– New passport in Thailand, ie entering with the old one and that could be because you say there is still room for stamps (“There is still room for an entry stamp and also for an exit stamp”). In principle you have to leave one empty page upon entry for your entry stamp, but I also have 5-6 stamps on one page. I don't know if they're going to make a problem out of that. As long as there is room for an entry stamp it will suffice I suspect, but that will again depend on the immigration officer.
Then ask for a new passport at the Dutch embassy and then have your data transferred at your immigration office.
Apparently this option is possible for Dutch people, even if they have not been deregistered in the Netherlands. This is not an option for Belgians who have not been deregistered in Belgium, because to obtain a passport at the embassy you must be deregistered in Belgium and registered at the embassy.
There may still be a possibility, but I don't know if it will work. The CoE serves to leave for and arrive in Thailand. But when your actual period of stay is granted, immigration will only look at how you enter Thailand ie with a visa, Visa exemption or re-entry and the CoE may be less important in that.
You could then apply for a new passport and make a CoE application based on “Visa Exemption”. You don't have to charge a visa or re-entry and you don't need the old passport either.
Until you then come to the immigration officer himself who will grant your period of residence. At that moment you also show the old passport and say that you did not have the option to upload it with the CoE application, but that there is still a valid period of stay in your old passport. Perhaps the immigration officer will accept that. But as I said, there is no guarantee that it will work of course
If not, you will have a residence period of a “Visa exemption” (45 days if still applicable, otherwise 30 days) in your new passport. Either your immigration office wants to extend it itself given your still valid period of residence, or you must start the procedure to first convert your “Visa Exemption” status to a Non-immigrant and then extend it again for another year.
I think those are the possibilities and one is a bit more certain than the other. I can never guarantee that something will work and often it all depends on the attitude of the immigration officer how far he wants to cooperate.
If there are readers who have been in the same situation, perhaps they can share their experience with this.
– Do you have a visa question for Ronny? Use it contact form.! -
Maybe scan the two passports together on 1 page so that you only have to upload 1 document?
Might be a solution.
Or make a PDF of it, then it is seen as a document. You can also include a short explanation why you are uploading two passports.
Accepting a multi-page PDF is indeed the simplest solution
Apply for a new passport. It is possible to travel with 2 passports. The visa in the old passport remains valid but must be presented at the same time as the new one. We make the applications for visas (EU) for our officials on a daily basis and this problem occurs almost every day. This is accepted even for the US where the strictest standards apply.
I have only quoted that procedure (travelling with 2 passports) in my response for the reader's information.
But the question is not really whether you can travel with two passports, but whether you can upload those two passports (new and old with period of residence and re-entry) to receive a CoE for Thailand.
Without that CoE, you just won't leave, whether you have a new, old, or both passports.
He is looking for that information.
“Contact with the Thai embassy in The Hague shows that I can only upload 1 document at the CoE, which will probably also be needed in November. So, either my current passport, with my extension and re-entry permit, valid until May 4, 2022 (passport valid until December 30, 2024), or my new passport, possibly with a declaration from the municipality that my new passport is my replace old one. “
Regardless of the question
You write:
“We make the applications for visas (EU) for our officials on a daily basis and this problem arises almost every day”
I don't really understand this.
Applying for a visa means you don't have one.
Why would you do this with an old passport if you have a new passport?
Then you only do that with that new passport and that problem does not arise.
Ronny, it is originally about this in Lonnie's text that a passport that is still valid for a few years is overfull. Or have I misunderstood? Sorry then.
I mean that when applying for a “new” passport, since the current one is overcrowded, the pending visas or other documents in the “overcrowded” passport will continue to apply.
The old “overfilled” passport itself with its own number is no longer valid once a new passport is issued.
Therefore, the 2 passports must be presented at immigration or possibly at other authorities, if necessary. So every time he travels back to this country, he must also present the old passport with the visa that is still valid and this visa will remain valid. For other countries, the new passport is of course sufficient and the only valid document.
NB Ronny, I always like to use your expert explanation, which is always based on facts and laws.
Yes and Lonnie knows he can travel with his old and new passport until he can transfer these details at immigration in Thailand.
However, he has a problem that he must obtain a CoE in order to travel to Thailand.
And to obtain that CoE he has to upload his passport (new) which would not be a problem, but to prove that he still has a valid residence period and re-entry he must also be able to upload that old passport. Therein lies the problem. He can't upload that old one to prove it according to the info he got from the embassy.
So traveling with those 2 passports is not the problem. He knows that procedure. The problem is to obtain a CoE so that he can travel back with his 2 passports
Ronny, I just created 2 COEs for my wife and brother who are now staying in Phuket. What if he then creates a PDF of possibly several pages containing his main page with a photo of his new passport and the Re-entry page of his old passport? Isn't that possible? I also had to do this for my brother, the page with photo and the page with Non-O visas in 1 PDF, and it went without a hitch. In addition, you can also upload 2 documents. “Applicant can attach photo, picture or PDF file (2 files maximum)”. I had also made a mistake on the travel insurance upload page and called the embassy in Brussels and a friendly gentleman immediately added an extra upload page to upload an extra document +32 470859667. I can tell you that in Brussels they are VERY be helpful regarding the application for a COE, at least this gentleman.
Something similar has already been proposed above, but on one page.
If the PDF is accepted, that should work fine.
I myself am in Thailand and have not yet had to apply for a CoE, so I have no experience with it and do not know what is possible.
That's why the response options are also open, by the way.
I myself will continue on what he tells me and what the embassy (The Hague) told him.
Thanks in advance and hopefully he will respond to this or try your PDF proposal.
I also went back last year with a new passport.
The old one is destroyed outside the last leaf with the entrance it must be undamaged.
Then the stamps are simply put in the new one.
Please note that you apply for your coe with the new passport then there is no problem.
With the two passports to Thailand for your entrance!!!!
Then report within two days with the imegratei that you are back and have everything transferred.
Here in Boeriram they charge 500 Bat if you are late for your stay report.
Uploading a new passport is no problem for his CoE application.
His question is how you can also upload the old passport with the still valid period of stay and re-entry, if the embassy says that you can only upload one.
Finally, you must be able to prove to the embassy that you have a visa or period of residence (re-entry). And that's in his old passport.
Or you have to leave on Visa Exemption of course then only your (new) passport is sufficient, but then he would not have this problem / question either.
However, if you only upload your new passport as you say, how can the embassy know with which visa you leave, or in his case with which period of stay (re-entry).
If you can tell us how you did that last year, his question has also been answered.
“Contact with the Thai embassy in The Hague shows that I can only upload 1 document at the CoE, which will probably also be needed in November. So, either my current passport, with my extension and re-entry permit, valid until May 4, 2022 (passport valid until December 30, 2024), or my new passport, possibly with a declaration from the municipality that my new passport is my replace old ones.”
The fact that you have to report to immigration within two days that you are back has to do with the TM30 report. In practice, you may do this yourself, but it is actually not your responsibility but that of the owner or address responsible (the person who is designated in the blue booklet as the address responsible, usually the first name in the booklet).
For practical reasons, you can also have your data transferred from the old to the new passport immediately, but this does not have to be done within two days. There is no period and no fine.
As long as it has not been transferred, you must keep the two passports together. Once transferred, the old one is no longer needed. From a practical point of view, having it transferred as soon as possible is perhaps the best option
Ronny, then it will be cutting and pasting with a copy of the old passport photo sheet, the correct stamps and the photo sheet of the new passport. Make copies, cut and paste and make a scan of them together and upload that to the embassy.
Or pretend your nose bleeds and only use the old passport until you get to Thailand. It is a tip for everyone to think about a new passport in good time or to buy a business passport, which has a few more pages.
What does my response have to do with cutting and pasting?
I'm guessing it's on a previous comment from (other) Ronny at the top?
Yes, and that may result in some cutting and pasting, but
– 1 page new passport ID page
– 1 page old passport ID page
– 1 page residence period
– 1 page re-entry old passport.
Perhaps it should be possible to get those 4 pages on one page if one wants to accept that.
– 1 page new passport ID page
– 1 page old passport ID page
– 1 page old passport residence period
– 1 page old passport re-entry
Make sure that the passport numbers remain visible when you cut and paste
Dear people,
First of all thank you very much for the responses.
RonnyLatYa, thank you twice for your extensive answers. You have understood my question exactly. I agree with you that the embassy should provide a solution for this. Unfortunately, the embassy in The Hague is not overflowing with willingness and friendliness. But I will try again next week at the embassy.
Traveling with a visa exemption may be possible, but I don't have a good feeling about it. I would rather be a new nun imm. O apply for a visa with my new passport, although the question is whether immigration is willing to transfer my year extension (obtained on my old visa), or whether I will have to apply for a new year extension on my new visa.
Ton and Jan say 'make it a PDF'. Thanks for the tip Ton and Jan, that might seem like a possibility to me. Jan also says, unlike the embassy employee, that you can upload 2 documents in that place. Maybe should I just do a trial for a COE, to see how much space there is in 'upload passport'. And when I know that, let the application expire, because I won't be going until November at the earliest.
Cutting and pasting seems less successful to me, I'm not very good with computers either.
Pretending my nose is bleeding doesn't seem like a good idea to me. I'll have to apply for a new passport in Thailand anyway, and that costs there, with explanation, more than 100 euros more than in the Netherlands.
Applying for a passport in the Netherlands seems the best option to me, it is also easier for me, I live 10 minutes from the town hall and in Thailand I live in Khon Kaen.
I will definitely apply for a business passport this time, thanks for that tip Erik.
Transferring the data to the new passport does not have to be done within 2 days, as RonnyLatYa already wrote, most likely we will still have to be quarantined by that time, so then it is the responsibility of the hotel where you stay for the 1st 2 weeks when I am home, I must of course report/confirm the address (I always do this myself, with all the necessary papers from the homeowner.), and then I will certainly try to transfer my residence permit right away. don't bother immigration in Khon Kaen with that 90 days report. I've been in Thailand for years, 8 months a year, and never filed a report, as I was not aware of that rule. When I found out, I I did, and just got my paper, without a fine and without asking why I had never done that before. Thanks to immigration Khon Kaen.
Again, thanks to everyone for responding and the tips, it works enlightening.
More tips always welcome.
Regards, Lonnie.
It's already been said
When applying for a new passport, always request a business passport (costs the same)
Ordinary passport 34 pages
Business passport 60 pages