Berbod: Beautiful story Lieven and recognizable in many ways. In recent years I have been drinking coffee from the Boloven plateau in the South
Jos Verbrugge: Dear KeesP, Would it be possible to provide the details of the visa office in Chiang Mai? Thanks in advance
Rudolf: The distance from Khon Kaen to Udon Thani is 113 km. You don't need an HSL or airplane for that. You can do that with one
Chris: It is a matter of long-term thinking: - petrol prices will undoubtedly continue to rise in the next 20 to
Atlas van Puffelen: The isan is like a beautiful young woman, Clouseau, There she goes, sang a similar insight. Fantastic to walk next to it, m
Chris: Rich elite? And if that train ticket costs the same or less than a plane ticket (because of all the extra environmental taxes).
Eric Kuypers: Immigration and customs have to go in somewhere and get out again later, so I expect Nongkhai and Thanaleng at the stopping points. There is
Freddy: Then unfortunately the salespeople who make a train journey so much fun will be over..
Rob V: That's why I actually only wanted to keep Khon Kaen on my beermat, provided the train does at least 300 km to get a full stop.
RichardJ: Sorry, Erik. You cannot dismiss a critical attitude towards these types of mega projects with a catch-all such as “setting up...
Rudolf: The poorest are indeed coming out of the valley very slowly – at least in the village where I live. And the money usually comes from
Sander: In Thailand too, forces will eventually come into play that will say 'take the train instead of the plane'. So oo
Rob V: Will Lieven, as a coffee snob and with a nod to his surname, be tempted by a cup of coffee with beans that have been roasted first?
Johnny B.G: The easiest way is of course to just shoot, but then you get the whole community all over you and in times of social m
Be the cook: Hello Henk, It is in Jomtien Beach. You just have to ask for Dvalee hotel. From there to the right it is about a hundred. You should
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Home » Visa Short Stay » Schengen visa question for Belgium: Visa for girlfriend refused
On 23/04 you published the account of the visa application for my girlfriend. See the sequel here: The answer to the visa application, made at the office of TLS in Bangkok, came in the mail today: "Refused". My girlfriend already had a visa in 2018.
The passport was accompanied by a “Refusal” in English and an additional sheet in Dutch. My girlfriend had a 3 hour interview at TLS where all requested documents were handed over. She also showed pictures of her daughter's graduation ceremony with the three of us in 2018. Pictures of the daughter's wedding where we were together. Photos of the recently born grandchild. TLS said there was no need to add it. The refusal states the following reasons:
justification for the purpose and conditions of the intended stay was not provided…en
there are reasonable doubts as to your intention to leave the territory of the Member States before the expiry of the visa.
My girlfriend returned nicely during her previous stay in Belgium.
On the second page (in Dutch) the “Motivation” is questioned;
” The purpose and circumstances of the intended stay have not been sufficiently demonstrated. The person concerned wishes to travel to Belgium with her partner and she declares that her partner is ill and that she wishes to take care of her partner in Belgium, but she does not submit a medical certificate to this effect”.
HERE the embassy staff and the signatory go beyond their limits. This is an invasion and violation of privacy. Why should I submit a medical certificate stating in detail that I had 2x surgery for (skin) cancer and that this requires a follow-up, for which I also have an appointment in Belgium.
This is NOT one of the requirements to apply for a visa. These employees further argue: “The person concerned wishes to travel to Belgium with her Belgian partner and does not conclusively demonstrate that she has remaining family ties in the country of origin.
Isn't this pathetic and way over the line?
Dear Yan,
We are sorry to hear that your request failed again. Unfortunately, there are few options left except to try again with an even better file. How annoying and frustrating that is!
About the application: the desk clerk can point out that certain documents that the applicant wants to submit are not on the checklist with required supporting documents, but the applicant is free to submit those documents anyway. To put it bluntly, the employees at the counter are also just paper pushers who have no decision-making authority or any training in making decisions. A document that at first glance has no (added) value can possibly create a better picture and therefore influence the Belgian officials at the embassy. Of course, it can also prove to be a document without (added) value, in which case the official simply ignores it. The risk with too thick a pile of documents is that the decision officer will overlook or read important documents, they only have a few minutes per application, so they will not carefully read every document from start to finish if this does not seem necessary at first glance.
I can't say whether the few photos have added value in your case. The more concrete and objective evidence the better. A photo of the applicant with someone together can show “look we know each other”, but even better is proof of financial support (bank transfer) if one has stated that one person supports the other.
Officials therefore prefer to see verifiable evidence. That must be why they wanted to see proof that you are undergoing medical treatment. Of course that can be quite an invasion of your private life, so it is your right to refuse this. It could even be that citing your illness has had a negative effect: if your illness reaches a serious stage of complications, and your Thai partner wants to help you with care, someone who does not respect the regulations may end up staying in overstay to protect you. to take care of… To which any sane person can argue that it would be very stupid and short-sighted to throw in your own glasses like that: being together illegally for a short time would make that a lot more difficult in the longer term.
Now I don't know what other motivations have been put forward. Basically I had enclosed proof of previous trips to Europe (travel stamps in the passport), a short statement who you are, what the relationship is, what your plans are, what reasons the applicant has for returning on time and that you will see to this. Pointing out that previous trips abroad have been done according to the rules and that you will continue to do so can also do no harm. I had tried as best as possible to show that the applicant wants/must go back to Thailand to take care of family. If that is not possible with passbooks, then with photos, something is better than nothing. And hand in these supporting documents even if the paper shuffling external employee says that those papers are not necessary. All you can do is try to show as briefly and concretely as possible who you are, what you want, and that there is little or nothing to fear, and prove fit where possible.
In the end, the question remains, in good faith, the decision-making officer… Belgium is with about 10% rejections of applications from Thailand and from the most difficult embassies every year. Unfortunately, I also hear that the objection procedure for Belgium (via the Immigration Department, the Immigration Department) is pointless in most cases.
In the end, I can only recommend that you try again. Perhaps this time just pointing out that you want to be together, not mentioning illnesses and showing as best you can that there are reasons for returning. With weak hard evidence, it comes down to a good motivation letter. I can only hope that with a good and honest story it will work next time.
At most I can add the well-known clinchers such as: try a shorter holiday, celebrate another holiday together in Thailand to show that you see each other several times and therefore have a good relationship and that you really do not destroy it through stupid illegal practices such as to risk illegal stay etc.
A very drastic approach would be to enter into a legal marriage and then apply for a free visa for an EU/EEA family member via another member state (everything except one's own country, in this case Belgium). These applications are based on a minimum of evidence and can hardly be rejected. For details, see the Schengen dossier on this blog.
But who knows, readers in a similar situation may have good additions from practice.
Yours faithfully,
Rob V
Number of times read:524
6 responses to “Schengen visa question for Belgium: Visa refused for girlfriend”
Same story from my side. My girlfriend has been at TLS for almost 3 hours. I had put everything down on paper, with lots of photos and other evidence. She owns a home and has 2 children in Thailand. It was also said that if necessary contact would be made via Line. But that never happened. I think everyone knew it all. And then you get the standard answer there are reasonable doubts as to your intention to leave the territory of the Member States before the expiry of the visa. Nauseating this. I am therefore completely fed up with that display of power from such an employee who does not even bother to really delve into a case. We are at the mercy of those kinds of people. I hope more people will respond, because then you will see how bad it really is.
I feel for you.
Rob V. is well informed, he gives the readers of this blog correct advice.
My wife and I have chosen what Rob calls "the drastic approach".
My experience is now 25 years ago and may not be really relevant to you anymore.
The application for a tourist visa of my Thai girlfriend, now my wife, was refused every time by the Belgian embassy in Bangkok.
In desperation I went to live just across the border in the Netherlands. Almost immediately after registering with the Dutch municipality, my wife received a tourist visa,
After a few tourist visas, she received a residence permit for NL. We went every week from NL to Belgium, the country where she was absolutely not allowed to enter.
We ended up living in NL for about 20 years before moving back to BE.
We are still grateful to the Netherlands for giving us the opportunity to live on as a couple.
Reasonable doubts seem insufficient to me, they must substantiate those doubts, otherwise it is discrimination. With arguments one can go to court and contest it, and if necessary demand compensation from the person who discriminated. Best via an investigating judge with civil party proceedings, always with a complaint against strangers. The investigating judge will then decide for himself.
Discrimination must not be proven, but the one who discriminates must prove his innocence.
Request a verdict from a judge?
I learned in diplomatic law (50 years ago) that each country sovereignly decides who enters (and who does not)….and is not obliged to justify the decision.
When I was already married to my Thai wife - in Belgium in 1989 - she was refused a transit visa (by car) at the Swiss embassy in Brussels... because she could not provide proof of solvency. When I argued that she was my wife for whom I, as a Belgian, provided an income, I was told that it was not I but my wife who was the applicant and that she therefore had to meet the conditions.
We then drove to Rome via France.
I'm actually curious if there are readers who have successfully (or not) objected to a Belgian visa refusal? From a few years ago I know that the reputation and experience showed that this was usually pointless, especially if you were to file the objection yourself, but that an immigration lawyer also regularly had a tough job. The foreign national cannot demonstrate that he/she is very likely to return in time, the official cannot substantiate that the chance of illegal residence is really high, it remains a suspicion due to (usually) “too little bond/reasons to return” .
Whether that practice has become less unruly in recent years I do not know, so I am curious about more concrete experiences with rejections.
Now that I'm here: in the Netherlands, a solid objection often succeeds, and almost always if an aliens lawyer does this. But then again in the last few months I've heard that there was a rejection for the least (missing phone number, a flight reservation that had already expired without the applicant's knowledge and other petty things). But it will only be possible to say something about this in a year's time: every month of April, EU Home Affairs publishes their website with statistics on visa issues and refusals for the previous year. With Covid coming to an end, perhaps 2022 could see normal travel patterns again. Shouldn't they have made things more difficult in The Hague...
Would be a bit self-defeating not to speed up tourism, but who knows, the noises about extremely difficult officials are a coincidence and not a sign of dark clouds…wait and see.
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Same story from my side. My girlfriend has been at TLS for almost 3 hours. I had put everything down on paper, with lots of photos and other evidence. She owns a home and has 2 children in Thailand. It was also said that if necessary contact would be made via Line. But that never happened. I think everyone knew it all. And then you get the standard answer there are reasonable doubts as to your intention to leave the territory of the Member States before the expiry of the visa. Nauseating this. I am therefore completely fed up with that display of power from such an employee who does not even bother to really delve into a case. We are at the mercy of those kinds of people. I hope more people will respond, because then you will see how bad it really is.
Dear Yan,
I feel for you.
Rob V. is well informed, he gives the readers of this blog correct advice.
My wife and I have chosen what Rob calls "the drastic approach".
My experience is now 25 years ago and may not be really relevant to you anymore.
The application for a tourist visa of my Thai girlfriend, now my wife, was refused every time by the Belgian embassy in Bangkok.
In desperation I went to live just across the border in the Netherlands. Almost immediately after registering with the Dutch municipality, my wife received a tourist visa,
After a few tourist visas, she received a residence permit for NL. We went every week from NL to Belgium, the country where she was absolutely not allowed to enter.
We ended up living in NL for about 20 years before moving back to BE.
We are still grateful to the Netherlands for giving us the opportunity to live on as a couple.
get a lawyer. The disapproval that they're not sure your girlfriend will return is illegal, period.
Reasonable doubts seem insufficient to me, they must substantiate those doubts, otherwise it is discrimination. With arguments one can go to court and contest it, and if necessary demand compensation from the person who discriminated. Best via an investigating judge with civil party proceedings, always with a complaint against strangers. The investigating judge will then decide for himself.
Discrimination must not be proven, but the one who discriminates must prove his innocence.
Request a verdict from a judge?
I learned in diplomatic law (50 years ago) that each country sovereignly decides who enters (and who does not)….and is not obliged to justify the decision.
When I was already married to my Thai wife - in Belgium in 1989 - she was refused a transit visa (by car) at the Swiss embassy in Brussels... because she could not provide proof of solvency. When I argued that she was my wife for whom I, as a Belgian, provided an income, I was told that it was not I but my wife who was the applicant and that she therefore had to meet the conditions.
We then drove to Rome via France.
I'm actually curious if there are readers who have successfully (or not) objected to a Belgian visa refusal? From a few years ago I know that the reputation and experience showed that this was usually pointless, especially if you were to file the objection yourself, but that an immigration lawyer also regularly had a tough job. The foreign national cannot demonstrate that he/she is very likely to return in time, the official cannot substantiate that the chance of illegal residence is really high, it remains a suspicion due to (usually) “too little bond/reasons to return” .
Whether that practice has become less unruly in recent years I do not know, so I am curious about more concrete experiences with rejections.
Now that I'm here: in the Netherlands, a solid objection often succeeds, and almost always if an aliens lawyer does this. But then again in the last few months I've heard that there was a rejection for the least (missing phone number, a flight reservation that had already expired without the applicant's knowledge and other petty things). But it will only be possible to say something about this in a year's time: every month of April, EU Home Affairs publishes their website with statistics on visa issues and refusals for the previous year. With Covid coming to an end, perhaps 2022 could see normal travel patterns again. Shouldn't they have made things more difficult in The Hague...
Would be a bit self-defeating not to speed up tourism, but who knows, the noises about extremely difficult officials are a coincidence and not a sign of dark clouds…wait and see.