DutchMen / Shutterstock.com
Because this is sometimes discussed here, I submitted the question to the SVB and on March 11, 2021 I will receive an answer. Please note: it concerns a long holiday in Thailand with which country the Netherlands has concluded a BEU treaty.
The letter:
Dear …,
Someone who has reached retirement age may go abroad for an unlimited period of time.
If the stay abroad lasts longer than 3 months, this must be reported to us. Permission will be given in any case for a stay abroad of up to 26 weeks and there will be no consequences for health insurance, for example.
If you go abroad for longer than eight months, you must in principle deregister from the Netherlands. Even if you keep your house in the Netherlands, you must deregister from the BRP.
If you are going to LIVE in Thailand, you can (continue to) receive AOW pension and income support AOW, as long as you meet the conditions. You will continue to be entitled in this country, because a treaty has been concluded with agreements about monitoring the right to benefits. We do, however, require an annual life certificate. You must inform us of any changes in your living situation.
We trust to have informed you sufficiently.
Submitted by Eric
Erik,
Thailand is not covered by the WEU treaty, but it is a treaty country in which, among other things, it is determined who may levy tax on income.
In addition to the EEC countries, the WEU treaty includes Switzerland, Morocco, Tunisia and Turkey and concerns, among other things, the export of social benefits to these countries, such as child benefit for the 26 children of an ex-Turkish guest worker. Unfortunately, you are not entitled to this in Thailand.
Tooske, this article is the result of questions in this blog about the holiday duration of state pensioners and is a good answer to that. I have never heard of the WEU treaty, but I have heard of the BEU treaty and Thailand has concluded that treaty with the Netherlands.
I don't easily see what the 26 children of a former Turkish guest worker have to do with my state pension.
Then I only look at Pattaya where I am somewhat familiar and then I see that many Dutch people live here permanently, without being deregistered from the BRP. And then people here also have a permanent partner and nevertheless enjoy the old age pension of a single person. This is not fair to those who do live by the rules.
It is assumed that the partner also has an income or state pension. Crooked reasoning because the female partner usually has no income here and no rights to state pension or the like.
So leave that "not fair" to calimero and each lead his own life.
Dear Peter and Jan,
Jan, Provided that fraud is never fair, so that is an open door. These men can be checked for cohabitation. I don't know if the SVB is active in that area in Thailand.
Peter,…it doesn't matter whether the partner works,…the partner allowance has been abolished as of 2015 for new cases and will be phased out for existing cases.
If you live together and are therefore regarded as married, you will receive €833 gross per month (if you have accrued full state pension).
If you are single, you will receive € 1.218 gross per month
Whether it is not fair that there are people who receive a single state pension, you can only know if you know how old these people are!
If you are from before 1950, you still fall under the old scheme.
So to judge you have to know how old these people are.
If you want to live in Thailand as an AOW for a longer period of time, you will receive the same amount of AOW as you receive in the Netherlands, or you will receive more AOW because no tax has to be paid. Living with AOW in the Netherlands is already practically impossible. with all the high rent, care and energy costs. Is it possible to rent a house in HUA HIN for an affordable rent , and what are the additional costs !
You get slightly less state pension because you don't get a tax credit in Thailand. About 100 euros per month less. You can only get a tax exemption on company pensions, not on benefits or government pension.
With only a state pension and no big bank account, it will be difficult to obtain a visa with a residence permit and in my opinion it is very difficult to obtain a visa in Thailand. You should also count on health insurance.
R, Rietberg, the AOW remains the same as in NL if the status of living alone or cohabiting is the same as in NL. Gross then. In net terms, something changes: in Thailand you do not pay national insurance contributions, no health insurance premiums, but you no longer receive a tax credit.
But now I only count the payroll tax on the state pension; if you have other income taxed in the Netherlands, you can shoot to a higher income tax bracket. So your question cannot generally be answered with 'more' or 'less'.
Your question about renting in Hua Hin seems like a good question for the readers of this blog. Submit a question to the editor!
There is no WEU. There is, however, a BEU Act of mid-1999 that regulates the level of benefits if you go to live abroad. The AOW does indeed fall within the scope of the BEU Act. https://puc.overheid.nl/svb/doc/PUC_1058_20/2/ As far as the AOW is concerned, the SVB has been obliged to apply BEU rules since 2008.
Incidentally, Erik's question does not add anything new. Would you prefer Thailand for a longer holiday, you can just go ahead. At the beginning of 2019, my wife and I went to Thailand for 2 months on a tourist visa, then a week to Seoul, and another month to Thailand, and home.
Even if you go to Thailand for several months, there is nothing to worry about. Indeed, at 8 months or more, you must deregister yourself from the BRP.
For example, if you are going to a non-treaty country for 3 to 6 months, discuss this with the SVB to avoid unpleasant consequences for your state pension and health insurance.
Click on this link to see whether or not a certain country offers discounts on your state pension: https://www.svb.nl/nl/aow/aow-buiten-nederland/u-gaat-buiten-nederland-wonen
Frank, if you stick to the 8 months then you run no risk for the health care policy. But you could run into the lack of the BEU Act; I support your suggestion to definitely discuss this with the SVB.
Deregistration from NL / BRP,
Think before you begin.
My father went to live in Spain (eu) around the age of 70.
When I wanted to register him in NL at the age of 85, he had to come to the town hall in person, despite being too ill to stand on his feet.
He was not eligible for health insurance without registering.
And I promised my doctor that I would pay for everything myself.
The official showed some leniency and he was allowed to sit in a chair near the counter. But then the standard procedure for everyone / asylum seekers was used.
Dates of birth, date of marriage and nationality of parents, children, as well as of my deceased mother and brother, although they have passed on. Social Security / BSN just knew that, his passport had always been renewed on time in The Hague.
Due to some information from family etc, the lengthy questionnaire was completed after more than an hour.
It was then discussed whether he could be registered again.
Fortunately.
Then he was welcome in health insurance 24 hours later.
And he lived here for a few months.
Carlos, then you are one of the exceptions. I went back to NL after 16 years and although I had to appear in person, all those questions your father received are unknown to me!
Only, they couldn't just type in my BSN as you write; this data was held by the RNI (register of non-residents) and because of the holidays, it took three working days to collect that data. They could not register me, but I did receive a note to take out the health insurance policy.
On another forum I read that some expats have returned to NL after having lived in TH for a number of years. Maybe they can share their story and experience here.
Last year I registered in the Netherlands again because I could not return to my country of residence, Thailand, due to the corona. I made an appointment at the municipality and it took 10 days before I could register. During that time you are not covered by health insurance in the Netherlands, but I did take out current health insurance in Thailand itself because I also want to be insured there. No formalities at the municipality, just showing my passport and asking how long I planned to stay (because with a short stay/up to 4 months) you will not be registered. All information about your past and family is already in the Basic Registration of Persons. I could also have my children in Thailand registered in the Netherlands, but since this offers no further advantages or disadvantages, I decided not to do so.
Now have Dutch health insurance. And AOW accrual over the time that I live in the Netherlands again, 2% per year is approximately a net additional 20 Euro per month and that x 12 months = net 240 Euro extra AOW per registered year x life expectancy approximately 18 years after my retirement (according to CBS) then thanks to corona I will receive a net extra 4300 AOW for 1 year of registration in the Netherlands. I won't say no to that because yes, I am obliged to register.
It's not all that difficult. If you live in Thailand and want to return to the Netherlands, you can make an appointment online to appear at the town hall to register in the BRP. Bring a title deed to buy a house or a rental contract or a letter from the person you are going to live with if that person is the home owner or a letter from the landlord that you have permission to sublet. After registration you can choose your own health insurer. He is obliged to accept you as a client without any questions or objections. Because you are not yet insured against health costs in the Netherlands from day 1, you must ensure that you take out such insurance in Thailand. At the time I had an arranged via https://www.aainsure.net/nl-index.html
Dear Carlos,
If I had been in your shoes I would have driven my father in a rolling bed to the counter in the town hall. Preferably in the presence of a photographer from the local newspaper. The Netherlands is not at all as humane as it appears everywhere in the world. And with regard to racism, people here in the Netherlands know quite a lot about it. Although this fact is quickly swept under the rug.
Of the 26 weeks I knew that you were allowed to stay abroad for the state pension, but not that you had to report this after 3 months. Useful information and thanks for sharing.
Suspect that registration without standing at the counter is possible. Knowing small rural municipalities, where the civil servant is willing to do something more in urgent matters. Do not rule out a visit by the official. In addition, you can register later, have forgotten the term, and the health insurer will retroactively go back to the date of moving (which can be a hospital or hotel). You may have to advance the bill.
If all this does not work, there is always a notary who can give the official security, but this costs a few bucks.
I have a question. If you live in Thailand and receive state pension. Are they then allowed to withhold payroll tax of about 100 euros per month?
If you live in Thailand, you pay Dutch income tax on AOW and wage tax is an advance levy on the income tax owed. The deduction is not an amount but a percentage.
Of course. AOW and ABP pension fall outside the treaty. ACTUALLY Thailand is also allowed to levy after living here for 180 days I thought. If that doesn't happen is another story.
No, Pjotter, ABP pension - provided it is a STATE pension - is indeed in the treaty, namely in Article 19. AOW is not mentioned and that is why NL is allowed to levy and Thailand, even though the experts in this blog differ in opinion.
If you do not live in Thailand for 180 days, Thailand may only levy income earned IN Thailand.
You are absolutely right Eric. I just didn't want to make it too difficult because Henk's question was only about the state pension.
And of that, the Netherlands is only allowed to levy payroll tax from the payroll tax. So not the national insurance schemes and the ZVW.
Again, maybe I wasn't clear enough. I have been living in Thailand for 12 years. I have been completely deregistered in the Netherlands for 10 years. Payroll tax is still deducted from my ABP pension of 100 euros per month and from my AOW wage tax and national insurance premium also 100 euros per month. May they withhold these 2 amounts. Does anyone know the correct answer to this?
Henk, if your ABP pension is STATE Pension (ABP also pays company pensions, which is why this distinction) then it is taxed in NL and after emigration only with wage tax / income tax. Article 19 of the treaty. If it is company pension, Thailand may levy, Article 18 of the treaty.
AOW is taxed in NL as I just wrote, but only with wage tax / income tax. The national insurance contributions may not be withheld and I think this will not be the case. I do not give an opinion about amounts; taxation is based on percentages.
Needless to say, even if you live in Thailand, you still pay income tax to the Netherlands. There has been so much information and discussion on Thailandblog that these kinds of questions should no longer be asked. Check: https://www.thailandblog.nl/?s=belasting&x=0&y=0
The SVB pays you AOW, and the SVB knows that you live in Thailand, so I do not believe that premiums are withheld. If so, you had 10 years to arrange this with the SVB. But anyway, every year you get the chance to reclaim those premiums through your tax return.