Living as Bos in Thailand (7): 'No have' is a lack of planning
A pack of coffee, toilet paper, the right packaging of peanuts or muesli. How often does it happen that the buyer gets zero on the request. 'No have' is usually the answer from the sales staff. Sometimes while a boy or girl is standing in front of the desired product. They also know a lot.
Stock administration is a matter for senior management. And I don't think they care that certain items are out of stock. While it is so easy to order additional items when their number in the store or warehouse decreases. No, we wait until everything is gone and the customers start asking for it. That it then takes days or even weeks before the desired brand is back on the shelves, mai penrai.
Thirty years ago, working for the newspaper in the transport city of Venlo, I wrote about the JIT system, Just In Time. To prevent companies from having to keep too large stocks (loss of interest), a computer program prevented the desired items or parts from being supplied quickly from a central warehouse.
I have the impression that JIT is now also gaining popularity in Thailand, but that things sometimes go wrong in the implementation. Take my garage. Parts for my Fortuner (but also other types) are almost never available. They must come from elsewhere, usually from Bangkok. That should be arranged within a day, right? The car is built in Thailand, but it usually takes about four days before I get a call. If I ever get a call. Last year, a part for the braking system even had to come from Chiang Mai. Explanation was missing.
At the regional service center of Samsung in Hua Hin of the same cloth. Tablet battery died. I have to come back after an hour for the announcement: the battery is broken. Yes, I knew that too. A new battery takes two days to arrive. A strange thing in itself, because you expect them to have one in stock. I come back after two days, after trying to call a few times. Always in conversation. The battery will arrive tomorrow, says the man behind the counter, to which I object that it will be three days to wait, compared to the two that were promised. He calls and then tells me to come back in an hour. I don't think so, I notice. Then he shortens the waiting time to half an hour, but when he sees my rising indignation, it can suddenly be done in five minutes.
Planning and estimating is simply not in Thai nature. Whether it stems from genetic defects or plain laziness is unknown to me. Even tonight's meal does not figure in the back of my girlfriend's mind. Let alone appointments or travel plans. Thinking about it makes no sense in Thai eyes, because plans always change anyway. And at the end of the afternoon they look at the market to see what is tasty.
Sometimes my (Dutch) path in Thailand is not a bed of roses…
Hans goes in with a straight leg. Just as firmly provocatively report that the Thai may be genetically flawed or lazy. As a writer, you have the freedom to write something so absurd and see how many people are being outed.
In my opinion, the well-known 'no have' or 'mai mee' is due to a few factors.
Just like that, a giant comes storming at you and immediately goes wild in a waterfall of words. Not first a 'sawatdee khap' 'hello, excuse me' but a 'you have a bolt type 8?'. That foreigner lacks decency, you are not his slip. Can't he ask a little nicer? And sir does not speak Thai and in his arrogance assumes that I speak that ool. Yes I do know some English but could it please be a bit slower and in simpler terms? Hmm now he is also starting to raise his tone with that same waterfall of words. How arrogant buffaloes foreigners are. Sir, no have and please get out because then you're not my problem.
Politeness (a smile and hello/sawatdee khap works wonders), taking the language barrier into account, talking at a leisurely pace, easy words, a piece of paper to write down what you mean, some creative thinking to overcome the language barrier, also being patient if you are not immediately understood and so on work wonders. Saves the requester and the requested both a lot of frustration and disappointment.
And in smaller shops not everything will be in stock or available quickly. And not because of poor planning or estimation. The convenience store does not have 10 boxes of beer or whiskey in stock. Or the possibility to buy it within 24 hours with the limited turnover and other obligations and priorities, and what if you don't come back the next day, the store is left with a mountain of stuff because they don't sell quickly and it was better to have other stock. can buy. That is certainly not a bad assessment of the shopkeeper, but a very understandable one.
super comment,
You can get almost anything done from a Thai if you ask the right way.
Just imagine the opposite, a bully comes demanding everything from you in a foreign language…,
Well it wouldn't be for me either.
I am also self-employed in Belgium, my clients are kings, but I am emperor, not their slave.
Those who respect me can get everything, those who don't respect me can go to the tree.
Why shouldn't this be different for a Thai.
Dear namesake, I agree with you that Hans Bos goes too far in stating that Thai people have genetic problems. Perhaps it is indeed the case if you suppose to provoke and get reactions loose. But you go the other way by justifying everything and putting the blame on the foreigner. Even if you are nice and friendly and polite and even if you speak Thai you often get the same answers and a look of I'm not here to help you anyway. And of course the inventory problem applies to the large retailers. There, too, it is a common occurrence that certain products are sold out and then it sometimes takes weeks before they are available again. Many companies in Thailand have a problem with service and stock management.
Dear Rob, of course it's not roses and moonshine in Thailand. you sometimes get to hear that something is not there, and with larger chains where it concerns 10 discs, things will sometimes go wrong. I can imagine that the shop assistant in the Makro or Big C sees that something is almost finished and does not pass this on (I did not, by the way, when I filled compartments at the AH as a student), and the chef did not take a good look that then the shelf remains empty. Or that the chief has seen it but it goes wrong at the distribution center, etc. That stock management is 'looser' than it could be with us, no idea, but I can't imagine that being problematic.
I think the main reason for many no sales is a communication problem and sometimes employees who earn next to nothing and it will be a sausage whether or not you buy something.
A nice anecdote from a friend who was repairing his faucet. He came across a shop with all kinds of technical materials, objects and parts. But after looking around he couldn't find any O rings. He first tried to ask a young employee, but if you don't know the Thai word for O ring, it's difficult. He then met an older person, possibly the manageress of the business and did not immediately come out. Then came the prompting to take her to the faucet aisle, grab one from the shelf, and use hands and feet to make it clear that he was looking for a ring for the faucet. 'ohhh' yes they understood him now and then they took him to the other side of the scaffolding where there was a box with dozens of rings in all shapes and sizes. Mission accomplished with some patience, kindness and ingenuity. Everyone happy.
'No have', is usually the answer from the sales staff. Sometimes while a boy or girl is standing in front of the desired product. They also know a lot. '
Hans, when you see the desired product behind the 'boy or girl', why do you ask for it? Do you then do some kind of test about their genetic makeup or their level of industriousness?
It is impossible for staff to know for each specific product whether it is in stock or not. I ask: 'where is the coffee?' Then I go there to see if they have the specific product I want. If not, I'll take something else that suits me.
I suspect that you also have a certain genetic makeup. You expect perfect attitude and knowledge from others. Are you perfect? Never forget anything? Never brought anything wrong? Always perfect communication with the shop staff?
In the almost 20 years that I lived in Taailand I rarely heard 'mai mie'. And when they said it, it usually turned out to be the case.
Just came from the doctor for a blood pressure check. I want to buy a new blood pressure monitor and ask the doctor's assistant if they have it downstairs in the pharmacy, yes. I go downstairs and ask for a blood pressure monitor. 'We don't have it, you have to go to Blokker'. After some talking back and forth, another member of staff suddenly arrives with a blood pressure monitor.
Well Tino, in the years you've lived in Thailand, your sense of irony and sarcasm hasn't exactly increased. If I explain it, the irony is lost. Of course I don't ask for the known way and only see that what I asked is behind the boy or girl in question when they step aside.
You know as well as I do that Thais are afraid to make or admit mistakes. That often leads to no-haves, especially at stores like Home Pro.
To be clear, I am not yelling at the staff, in fact I am extremely friendly. I am certainly not perfect, always forget everything, but always try to maintain perfect communication with the store staff.
As far as the genetic makeup is concerned, I refer you to the concept of 'sarcasm'.
"You know as well as I do that Thais are afraid to make mistakes or admit it."
Yes, dear Hans, we are all afraid of making mistakes and don't like to admit it. One more than the other, depending on self-confidence, age, profession, against whom (your wife but not the boss) etc.. The Catholic Church took 20 years to admit that there was sexual abuse. I assure you there's nothing Thai about that, that's my point. In an extreme form it is called 'performance anxiety', which I suffered quite a lot at the beginning of my doctor's career. I also had a hard time admitting the mistakes I, and all other doctors, made. Fortunately, over the years, and in today's world of doctors, that has improved greatly.
I think it's fine, Hans, if you describe your unpleasant experiences. But please refrain from the label 'Thai'. We're getting nowhere with that. Look for it in other factors. Agree?
It is not the employee who says he does not have it, but the organization that is lacking. Even 7eleven or Lotus and other large companies are failing on this point. Example: 10 items are ordered every day, after 4 hours it is already sold out, every day. Then we might think: order 5x as much for a whole day. But this is where the problem in Thailand comes in that no initiative is allowed to take place. Because the manager elsewhere has arranged it this way, so it will be implemented this way. That is why the employee sells no-haves.
Thais don't think ahead, and what is planning but thinking ahead? This has its drawbacks, such as less good stock management. Also on a household level. A Thai eats what is available, we like to save a provision to be able to choose what we feel most like at that moment. But also not to run out of something that we always want to have available. Example: if I know that I will spend a few days alone in my house in Isaan and my bread is not for sale in the village (and I am not supposed to travel far to get it), then buy I have enough bread in advance. To which my wife says: but we still have bread at home, that's not finished yet, is it? Collecting provisions, she didn't know that before we were together. But we, Westerners, can't have it if we want ketchup, the answer is: ketchup mot leaw (finished). For me, that's not too much of a problem now because I'm a real housework type who likes nothing more than making shopping lists (and all the other things that go with the household), so I take care of those chores.
But I think there is definitely a difference of mentality in this area. When my wife goes to the market with her mother, I already know that there is a good chance that they will also pay a visit to the granddaughter. But that will never ever be 'planned' in such a way that people say: 'we're going to the talat nat and maybe also visit baby Faa'. A 'planning' is indeed constantly changing. But now that I know that, I shouldn't worry if the trip takes a little longer than usual. Or if the planned trip with the parents to the city is moved to the next day because it suits Dad better to do something else at that time. Or because I feel like sleeping in… Or… (etc)
Thais just deal with time differently, I don't think there is anything wrong with that and it has nothing to do with laziness. And genetic defects… come on, what a feeling of superiority!
That other way of the Thai is also often called "living from day to day", but I think you can go even further, people live from part of the day (morning-afternoon-evening-night) to part of the day. I had to get used to that too. But it also has a big advantage: there is room for spontaneity. And you don't walk around like crazy with a fully planned agenda where you don't have time for anything else. I still remember that in Flanders (and I speak of almost 20 years ago!) you had to arrange a meeting with a couple of friends 6 weeks in advance! Now, if we have a Thai barbecue and someone passes by, it may be that they say: Oh nice, can I join in, I'll go and buy some meat first.
The Thai national character is indeed different and oh how happy I am that I can live here and no longer between 'busy busy busy' people. It was also an adjustment for me, but uh... good for blood pressure, dear people!
Adam, in all the reactions to Mr Bos's writing, I think you hit the nail on the head in your closing words. The Thai national character also has advantages and is even healthier. Tjai jen jen die kwa.
Yes damn, you stand, you dress like a Thai, neatly in long pants and shirt, you speak like a Thai at least something that looks a lot like it and even then they won't get you what you're looking for.
It shouldn't get crazier, because then I could imagine that you just call it a day there, are we going to get.......
This week I was in the Netherlands in the DIY store Karwei and Praxis. In Karwei I asked 2 employees, who were jointly refilling a compartment, about a certain article. Did they not sell, was the answer. Stubborn as I am, I looked again and at 5 meters away in the same row I saw the article. At Praxis I also needed something, but that article was secured with a lock. Didn't see an employee so went to the Info Desk. The lady there would send someone. At the box I waited about 10 minutes until my patience ran out. Back to the Info. Hasn't anyone come yet, said the same lady, before I could say anything. And then that their calling system sometimes faltered, but that she herself would go with me to unlock the article. Finally helped. Just like Hans Bos with, for example, his battery for his tablet. Although he himself was very sure of a dead battery, it is still logical that it is first checked whether that is indeed the cause. To generalize in such a generalizing way from his experiences with his car, tablet and girlfriend that Thai people are genetically deficient, or that they are generally lazy, is very short-sighted and in fact insulting.
Kindness works wonders mister Bos !!
There is a neighborhood supermarket in the village where my wife's family lives.
After a few days there was no more beer available, very unfortunate but it was no different.
Could have gotten something else, but no thank you. Then only 1 day without beer.
Half an hour later the lady of the shop with a roaring motorbike is at the door with 8 bottles of Chang !!
LAZY ??
Treat the (in this case) Thai people kindly and politely and you will get the same in return.
3 years ago I had a Thai girlfriend who was 53 years old. She often managed to get something done in the store, the Service Center or at official bodies. She was very friendly and humble. She explained the problem carefully and tried to get the person involved in her problem. She was respected, and perhaps made herself appear more important than she really was. She usually got people on her side so that they could still be served correctly and, if possible, quickly.
If she did not succeed, or if it was impossible, she was apologized profusely. She said goodbye kindly and correctly. You know…don't show displeasure.
She insisted long and kindly, but finally resigned herself to the verdict.
I eventually ended the relationship because I discovered that she believed her own lies. She was 11 years older than she let on. She was supposedly childless, but had two adult daughters. Her father was said to have been a general... She showed that she had money, but in the end it turned out that she didn't have a dime. She claimed to own 3 condos... I covered many of those lies with the cloak of love. But eventually I doubted whether I had a sincere person for me because of the number of lies she quickly dealt with.
I don't know if she ever used a white lie in her negotiating techniques.
I ordered something in October for 70.000 Baht, so no cat piss. Would be there in 3 weeks, didn't hear anything for weeks so I went there on December 01st. Case closed. I will go there again at the end of December. Business only open in the morning, I was there at 11.30. Do not respond to emails or calls. I went there last Monday and sure enough, business open and full of customers. So I made a lot of noise and issued an ultimatum: Friday the stuff or else 70.000 baht back. Suddenly all kinds of excuses such as no import license blablabla. Fine, it's not my problem, I tell them in front of a number of customers. And suddenly you get a call on Tuesday that the order has arrived. No have, mehula. When the customer is angry, suddenly everything is possible….
You paid in advance? I would be very careful with that.....
We translate 'No have' as 'We don't have that.'
That's where the problem starts. You have to translate that as 'I don't have that handy for you, or I don't know what you mean.'
When I walk into a watch store in Pattaya and I ask, "Do you have a SKX009K2?" then the answer is almost certainly 'No have'.
You should not see this as a rejection, but as an invitation to continue the conversation.
I'll explain it sometime.
Yes, good communication is the magic word.
Above are some Dutch examples of the 'no have' behavior. The difference is that in the Netherlands we attribute this to individual and/or business shortcomings, but not to a bad 'Dutch mentality'. In Thailand, every mistake made by a Thai is spread over all Thais. It is not the 'person' who is at fault, but the Thai mentality in that person.
55, you should try that at Mr Wong in the stink market Pattaya tai, you might get to see this watch within a minute.
Fortunately they are a little further on my island, if I can't find a product, they can see in the cash register in a minute whether the product is sold out…..