Dear readers,
I am going in November 2019 with retirement and I plan to emigrate to Chiang Mai four months later. I want to be sure about the way I have to deal with, in terms of visa (the visa file on Thailandblog is from 2016 and something may have changed in the meantime).
I think I must first apply for a non-immigrant O visa (single entry) in the Netherlands. Then I have to apply for an “extension of stay based on retirement” (also called a non-immigrant OA Long stay visa or Retirement visa) in Thailand on that non-immigrant O visa. Is it correct so far?
If so, then I have a question. Once I have arrived in Thailand on my non-immigrant O visa, can I immediately apply for a “retirement visa” or am I required to wait 60 days?
Another question. I will soon have a monthly income of € 1.000 on AOW and a monthly income of € 900 on pensions. (in total well above the required 65.000 Baht per month). However, on some Thai sites it is indicated that the 65.000 Baht must consist purely of pension money and that the AOW is not regarded as a pension (the Tax file on Thailandblog also states that the AOW is not regarded as a pension).
Can someone clarify this? If only my true pension amount of € 900 counts, then I will never be able to emigrate to my beloved Thailand and I can stop my preparations.
Thank you very much in advance for your helpful responses.
Regards,
Peter
The income must be 65000 baht.
Pension, AOW, and so on.
All income and if provable ok for the embassy.
Your AOW simply counts as income. More and more people are asking for proof at immigration that you transfer 65.000 or 40.000 thb monthly from your Dutch account to Thailand.
Keep in mind that the value of the Euro is under considerable pressure and you get little thb for € 1900. At the moment only 66.500. So that's tight.
The Best
The point is that you can demonstrate that 65.000 baht per month.
You can (still) do this by means of a visa support letter from the embassy.
And of course your state pension does count towards this.
Perhaps in the future that visa support letter will no longer be provided, then you must be able to demonstrate through your Thai bank account that 65.000 baht is deposited into the account from abroad every month. If you have 800.000 bath in a Thai bank account at least 2 months before first applying for this so-called retirement visa, you do not have to prove anything else.
But your state pension does count as income.
This has nothing to do with a non-immigrant visa, among other things.
As you said yourself, you can apply for a non-immigrant visa at the Thai embassy in the Netherlands
And in Thailand you can apply for your extension or stay based on retirement after 60 days.
I have lived here for 9 years now and have always had an income consisting of AOW plus pension. When reporting income, I never broke it down, always a total amount. The embassy that issues the income statement for use at the immi does not split either. Immi doesn't ask anything about this either, just looks at the total picture. Probably don't know anything about what AOW is either.
1. You can apply for a Non-immigrant “O” Single entry.
This gives you a stay of 90 days upon arrival. You can then extend that period of residence by one year. You can start the application for an annual extension 30 days (sometimes 45 days) before the end of the 90 days, in other words from 60 days (or 45 days) after entry you can apply for the annual extension. Whether the application is submitted correctly within the last 30 days (45 days) is not that important. The extension will always take effect immediately after those 90 days. So you don't gain or lose anything by submitting the application sooner or later. Of course, waiting until the last day is not a good idea.
Please note that if you leave Thailand during the annual extension, you must first apply for a “Re-entry”. If you do not do this, you will lose the annual extension when leaving Thailand. If you do have one, upon your return you will receive a period of stay that corresponds to the end date of your annual extension, in other words you will then receive your previous end date of your annual extension back.
A year extension is not the same as a Non-immigrant “OA” Multiple entry visa.
As it says, the Non-immigrant “OA” is a visa and not an extension.
You can apply for a Non-immigrant “OA” Multiple entry at the Thai embassy (not at immigration in Thailand). You will have to provide more documents than a Non-immigrant “O”, such as health and proof of good behavior.
When you enter Thailand with a Non-immigrant “OA” Multiple entry visa, you will receive a stay of 90 year instead of 1 days, with each entry within the validity period of the visa. Do a little calculation, such as another “border run” before the end of the validity period, and you can stay in Thailand for almost 2 years (make sure that after the validity period you also apply for a “re-enrty” here before you leave Thailand) .
Do not forget to make an address report during a 90-day continuous stay in Thailand and also every subsequent period of 90 days of continuous stay.
Also make sure that you are reported to immigration with a TM30 form upon arrival at your residence.
2. Pension, AOW, or any other income are all good for immigration.
As long as it is at least 65 Baht if you only use income as financial proof. You will need the “Visa Support Letter” from the embassy as proof.
You can also use a bank amount of at least 800 Baht in a Thai bank account. This must be 000 months for the first time and 2 months for subsequent applications. You will then need a bank letter and a copy of your bank book as proof.
There is also an option to use an income and a bank amount. Together that should be 800 Baht per year. Bank letter, passbook and visa support letter are then necessary as proof.
Finally, there is the new arrangement. You must transfer at least 65 Baht every month. Bank slip and passbook required as proof. For the first application, proof of deposit may be less than one year, for subsequent applications you must provide proof of the last 000 months.
Perhaps also mention that you can extend a period of stay obtained with a “Non-immigrant “OA”, in the same way and within the same period (30 or 45 days before expiry), ie 11 months instead of 60 days after entry.
Finally, there is the new arrangement to transfer 65.000 baht. This does not apply if you go for 800.000 baht in the bank, right? I just ask that you mention both the income requirement and the 2 baht scheme at point 800.000.
The monthly deposit of the 65000 Bath is one of the 4 options. You can choose.
After all the trading of the past few days, it should be clear by now that if you have THB800K in the bank, you don't need any other types of income certificates? In other words: if you do not have / cannot generate THB800K in any way, and cannot demonstrate, for example by means of an embassy letter, that you have sufficient income, then the monthly deposit of THB65K is also an issue. For example, in the case of someone who is 60 years old, after all not yet a pensioner.
Yes Frits, I just asked Ronny to be sure. Precisely I follow his publications to keep up and use the 800.000 baht scheme myself. But, and this is the point, read a few days ago on this blog that in addition to these 800.000 some Immigration also want to see changes or progress in this 800.000 or how people live next to this 800.000 baht. I do it myself from accumulated capital that I have elsewhere. And yes, demonstrating that if, for example, you use a foreign bank card and foreign bank in addition to the fixed 800.000, which then remains the same throughout the year in a Thai bank account, is more difficult for an official to check, if asked.
Well Ger,
The rule for holding TBH 8 tons is: this amount must have been in your account continuously 3 months before the renewal of the annual visa. That is also what the bank declares and appears from your bank book. If it's on longer, it doesn't matter. At Immigration, it's about establishing that you can in principle have TBH 65.000 p/m for the coming year. After all, TBH 8 tons is equal to TBH 66.000 p/m.
Whether you actually use this deposit/amount or not will be a concern to them. Suppose they see the following year that the amount (possibly increased with interest) is still there and you are standing in front of them to ask for an extension, then they know that you have sufficient income not to have died of hunger.
So fluctuations in the amount don't matter, as long as it is at least TBH 8 tons for 3 months prior to your renewal request.
Bye Frits.
Thank you for your response.
You say that “If I do not have 800.000 Bath and cannot prove that I have sufficient income, then only (in that circumstance) I can deposit 65.000 Bath every month.
is at issue.
So if I can prove to the embassy that I have an income of at least 65.000 Bath per month, I do not have to transfer that 65.000 Bath?
I haven't heard that one before…but you could be right. I still want to verify with you.
Thank you for your response.
Peter
Sigh….
It is accepted. I've never had a problem with it.
I have state pension and a very small pension of 98 euros. This is enough for my annual visa. I also only stay 6 months minus a day so that I can keep my health insurance in the Netherlands.
This can't be right Foodlover! With a quick calculation you have approximately TBH 45.000 p/m. And therefore a deficit of approximately TBH 20.000 p/m.
Please explain.
Well, if AOW were not (any longer) included, many compatriots would get into trouble. AOW is just a pension in my opinion. By the way, it concerns your income from the Netherlands and it is not required anywhere that this is a real pension.
So don't worry. For years I have used my total income (AOW + pension) in Chiangmai "certified" by NL Embassy for annual visa extension. Until the NL Embassy, on the instructions of The Hague (so not on the instructions of Thai Immigration!!) suddenly started to make very strange demands (one had to visit the Embassy, substantiate your income with documents, which the Embassy would check again, etc.). That visit to the Embassy was later canceled due to protest. Instead, the rate went up substantially “because the applicant no longer had to pay travel costs to the Embassy”.
I then decided to keep TBH 8 tons at the bank. Much simpler and less hassle.
Peter,
I think you misread or misinterpreted it.
It's actually very clear.
All income related to retirement (no longer working) is indeed seen as pension money in Thailand. The description and Q&A of the visa support letter include the following quote:
“Even if the AOW / pension benefit level remains the same, serve annually
supporting documents must be submitted when applying for the visa
support letter?
Yes. Each application is assessed individually and must be provided with
justification of income. Without supporting documents, the embassy cannot pay the amount
in the visa support letter.”
Ergo AOW and possibly a pension benefit both count. Otherwise, only a few can get an extension of stay. . I received my extension of stay (I am 58 years old) without state pension or pension benefit only on the basis of a “pre-pension” / redundancy payment. So you shouldn't see it so scary.
Furthermore, it is official that you can request your extension of stay in the last 30 days. I know that not every immigration office is very strict about this. But applying directly is usually not possible. But never say never. TIT (maybe with a little tea money on the side)
Furthermore, the net AOW amounts for 2019 are as follows:
Net € 1.146,51 (including tax credit) € 918,76 (without tax credit).
Peter,
I am not an expert, but with a non immo visa single entry you can stay in Thailand for a year.
After this year, you must indeed apply for an extension at the immigration service in or near your place of residence.
I have been doing this for 10 years without any problems with an income statement (visa support letter) from the NL embassy in Bangkok.
AOW is accepted as is a pension or annuity.
Whether you are above the limit of THB 1900 with € 65000 remains to be seen and of course depends on the exchange rate at the moment at 35 bats per €, so it's already possible. But that can be solved with an additional bank balance for 3 months in a Thai bank.
No, with a Non immigrant O Dingle entry you get a residence period of 90 days. That's all.
You can then extend that 90-day period by a year if you meet the requirements for an annual extension.
Addition to previous:
An additional 72 euros gross per month is added to the AOW, Holiday pay that is paid out in May. That also counts.
Don't worry Peter! AOW is pre-eminently a pension, a state pension. And of course that counts. Just keep preparing and looking forward to warm Thailand. (Never cold feet, even without socks)
The entrant does not mention whether the amounts of 1000 and 900 euros are gross or net. The net amounts apply. In the case of full emigration and therefore deregistration from the (old) country of residence, the Th/NL treaty can be invoked, depending on where you worked until retirement. Does not apply to former civil servants who always continue to pay income tax and therefore have less to deal with. I hope it will still work out favorably for you by then, but there is no guarantee for this. It may be wise to save some money, so that you can transfer this money to a Thai bank account later and use it for the retirement application.
.
Thank you Jacques for your comment.
The amounts mentioned by me are net amounts.
When I look in "My pension overview" there is a net total amount of € 2.000 per month from my retirement age.
I don't quite understand your sentence about being able to appeal to the Thai-Dutch treaty.
I am not a civil servant, nor have I ever been. How could this treaty benefit me? .
Thank you very much for your response.
Peter
Hi Peter, what I mean by that is that as a non-civil servant you can appeal to the treaty and therefore apply for an exemption from the tax authorities in the Netherlands. You must then be deregistered and registered in Thailand and register with the tax authorities there. This is only applicable and necessary to do after 6 months (just off the top of my head) in Thailand. Much has already been written about this blog and it often causes problems when I read the messages in this and / or that way. You must demonstrate to the Dutch tax authorities that you have legal and actual residence in Thailand. The tax authorities usually require a form from the tax authorities in Thailand that you are registered and liable for tax there. With a small pension as you indicate, you will not have to pay in Thailand, I estimate. When this exemption is granted by the tax authorities in the Netherlands, the gross amount will then be equal to the net amount paid out because you do not have to pay income tax in the Netherlands and are already exempt from the ZVW costs etc. So definitely worth it for you to apply this in due time.