Reader question: My Thai son has two nationalities, how should I travel to the Netherlands?
Dear readers,
I'm going to the Netherlands for the first time this year with my 2 year old son and Thai wife. My son has 2 nationalities (Thai/Dutch) and so the question arose with me how to handle the immigration formalities.
In the meantime I have heard 3 different versions, mainly from Dutch people who live here and have a loekkrung (see below) but I would like to know what the most official way is.
1. My son shows his Thai passport at Thai immigration and his Dutch passport at Dutch customs. Seems easiest but is this the correct way?
2. I apply for a visa on the Thai passport just as we arrange for my wife. Can't go wrong seems to me but there are some extra costs and work to do.
3. The advice came from the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs that my son had to travel everywhere and on his Dutch passport. Very strange answer and doesn't really seem right to me.
I have already put the question to the Dutch embassy, but they do not get any further than that he can probably enter the Netherlands on his Dutch passport (surprisingly) and refer to a website regarding dual nationality (where there is not a single snar to be found). Sorry for the effort I took to ask the question.
There are quite a few Dutch people with loekkrungs on this website, so someone must know the right answer, right?
my thanks are great,
Seb van den Oever
Answer 1
Your son must leave Thailand on the Thai passport. His passport is stamped with a departure. If you return to Thailand, you will receive an arrival stamp. It can cause problems if your son wants to re-enter Thailand, but does not have an exit stamp.
On arrival in the Netherlands, you/your son should show the Dutch passport (after all, he is a Dutch citizen). No hassle with visas, etc. In the event of departure, simply show your NL passport again and, see above, the Thai passport on arrival (return) in Thailand
Someone who is in possession of several passports (nationalities) can choose which passport he/she uses to travel. In principle, it is about showing the same passport at the border of a country that you used to re-enter that country. So he shows his Dutch passport at the border post of the Netherlands upon entry and exit. In Thailand he could show his Thai or Dutch passport on departure, that does not matter much, but I would opt for the Thai passport so that he can show the same passport again on entry, then the departure and arrival stamps can be matched and there is no further hassle about visas. In short: His Thai passport at the Thai border, his Dutch passport in the Netherlands.
Your partner will of course need a Dutch visa (short stay Schengen visa) which you must apply for at the embassy. I even think that this is free for married people if you apply for the application at a NON-Dutch European embassy (for example the German one), you then fall under more flexible EU regulations instead of stricter Dutch regulations (yes, own citizens are "disadvantaged" compared to Europeans... ). If you are interested in such a free visa, you can find information about this on the website of the Foreign Partner Foundation. http://www.buitenlandsepartner.nl
I can only confirm the above. My son, Anoerak, Thai/Dutch, has been traveling out and in Thailand for years with his Thai passport and in and out of the Netherlands with his Dutch passport. Never a problem. When leaving Thailand, your son must fill in a Departure/Arrival Card for his Thai passport, as we do when we enter Thailand, with an exit stamp.
Just stand in the queue for Thai Passports yourself, if you point to your Thai son and wife you will be helped together.
I would like to add that you should also keep his Dutch passport at hand if he leaves Thailand on a Thai passport.
It is not always the case, but at Immigration they can ask where the visa is or also when boarding the plane, where the passports are checked again.
If they ask questions about this, just show that he also has a Dutch passport or ID card and then that's all right.
They just want to see that he can enter Europe legally. They look at that and are not going to use a stamp or anything. The exit stamp will only be in his Thai passport along with the arrival card.
It's the same with my wife. In Thailand she uses her Thai passport, but when she leaves it often happens that they ask where her visa is and then she shows her Belgian ID card or passport and that is fine.
I think it is also the case that you are legally treated according to the nationality in which you enter a country. In Thailand they often have different regulations and punishments for Thai and non-Thai. So if you come to Thailand as a Thai, you will be treated as a Thai in legal conflicts, for example, which is usually advantageous (but no help from the Dutch embassy) and vice versa, so if you show your Dutch passport at the border you will be treated as a Dutch citizen . Uhm further, this does not seem like an argument for a 2 year old anyway, but maybe something to take into account in the future.
My girlfriend has 2 passports (Thai and Dutch). In addition, she has a Dutch ID card.
When she leaves Thailand, she shows her Dutch passport (if requested) when checking in for airlines (because airlines want to make sure that she is allowed to enter the Netherlands).
At Thai customs, she shows her Thai passport and her Dutch ID card. Because even the Thai customs do not want to let a Thai leave if there is no visa or similar for the Netherlands.
She enters the Netherlands on a Dutch passport. When she leaves for Thailand, she shows either her Dutch or her Thai passport. Doesn't matter for Dutch customs (with a Dutch passport you can stay in Thailand for at least 30 days and if someone leaves with a Thai passport, they don't make a problem at all).
When she enters Thailand, she does so with a Thai passport. After all, it already contains an exit stamp (see above).
She has been using this “system” for 3-4 years without any problems. And it is therefore the best system if you want to stay in Thailand with your son for longer than 30 days. if, for example, your son has stayed here for > 30 days and entered the Netherlands on a Dutch passport, he will receive this on his next trip to the Netherlands
1. a substantial fine on presentation of a Dutch passport (for every day longer than 30 days)
2. On presentation of his Thai passport only, Customs will not let him go because he has no document (ID card or visa) for the Netherlands.
Take advantage of this. But certainly do not show in the Netherlands that your son has 2 passports (see recent discussions in the Netherlands about dual nationalities). According to my information obtained from Thai authority, which issues Thai passports here in Chiangmai, Thais are allowed to have another nationality besides Thai.
I live in Thailand with my Thai wife and we have decided in the past to always travel on Dutch passports. This is to prevent difficulties with the Netherlands that her Dutch passport could be confiscated. I think the Netherlands does not allow you to travel on 2 passports.
As a result, my Thai wife in Thailand also falls under the same rules as myself as a non-Thai. Assuming that Seb van den Oever wants to return to Thailand after vacation with wife and child because they live there, it is absolutely necessary that their child enters Thailand on the Thai passport.
Because the woman still has to travel on her Thai passport, my advice is to do the same for the child. Do request a Dutch ID card for the child and use that ID card when necessary.
I know several children of Dutch people who lived in Switzerland with a double passport, so Dutch and Swiss, who all lost their Dutch passport and therefore also their Dutch nationality because they traveled within Europe with 2 passports before Switzerland also became a Schengen country.
Moderator: Comments without initial capitals and periods at the end of a sentence will not be posted.
Teun's info is correct; if your son entered Thailand on his Dutch passport, he will in principle need a visa from his 15th birthday. Without a Thai visa, he then pays overstay if he wants to leave Thailand again. It is therefore important to enter Thailand on the Thai passport.
The concerns about confiscating one of the passports are unfounded. Passports are and remain the property of the state, so only representatives of the Thai state can take a Thai passport. A (lawfully obtained) Dutch passport cannot simply be confiscated in the Netherlands. Complicated legal processes are required for this.
Paul,
Finally someone who also understands how the fork is attached to the stem and does not talk like someone who has heard the bell ringing, but has no idea where the clapper hangs.
So this is the last I will email about it.
Moderator: reader questions can only be asked through the editors.
How do you do that (legally), two nationalities (TH and NL)? My wife does not want to become Dutch because she would then have to give up her Thai nationality. She has a very good reason to want to keep her Thai nationality.
But according to both Dutch and Thai law (checked with the official authorities on both sides) it is forbidden to have two nationalities. That was also the case two years ago, when your son was born.
So my pressing question is: how do you do that without hiding the other nationality on both sides, because then you can lose them both!
René,
What is the reason to tell the Dutch authority at all that you also have a Thai passport and vice versa? That escapes me completely.
And losing both nationalities is really not going to happen. The worst that can happen is that you have to give up 1 of the nationalities (and therefore always have the other nationality). So you will never become stateless.
But I don't understand what your reason is to provide (unsolicited) information about your 2 passports. How can the Netherlands check whether there is also a Thai nationality.
Finally. There is a lot of talk in the Netherlands about the phenomenon of dual nationality, but no formal steps have yet been taken. In the Netherlands one can at most ask to give up the other nationality, but enforcing it will not work.
My wife also has 2 passports. When obtaining the DUTCH PASSPORT, IT WAS ASKED to give up the Thai passport, but when collecting the Dutch passport, nothing was said about it, which is why someone can have 2 passports. Gr Ruud
Dear Teun, if you think that the customs authorities do not know how many ORIGINAL passports are in circulation with the person in question, I assume that you are still living in 1960…….
Once they open the computer they know everything, don't worry. No antecedents, no problems! Same as if you still have an outstanding fine, you are held hostage, but the fine remains if you do not pay!!! next time you will be arrested again until you pay!
Dear Mathias,
First of all, I do not live in 1960. I will also leave your comment about what people at Dutch customs do or do not know for what it is. If you travel in and out of the Netherlands with a Dutch passport, I would not know how the customs authorities know that you also have another passport. Very annoying for you that they keep getting you because you apparently don't pay your fines on time.
To be precise: customs has nothing to do with checking passports, etc. In the Netherlands, the competence of the Kon. Marechaussee, in Thailand of the Immigration Bureau.
In the Netherlands, this is very simple for a married person: After 3 years (uninterrupted) residence together with the married partner, you can apply for naturalization while retaining your old/current nationality. This is not clearly stated on the form, but if you indicate this yourself (verbally and on the forms) it will be fine. Unmarried people must officially give up their old nationality upon naturalization, but this could be objected to as this has disproportionate consequences in the case of a Thai (inheritance law, land ownership). For more information, see the Foreign Partner Foundation (not intended as advertising, but simply an excellent source of (migration) questions from people with a foreign partner). As other readers also indicated, it is not yet impossible to obtain 2 nationalities, the Rutte 1 cabinet wanted this, but fortunately Rutte 2 did not.
The other way around could theoretically also be possible: a foreigner can (also) legally become Thai, but that process is quite complex (also costs a good amount of money): apply for Permanent Ressidance after 3 years of residence in Thailand (with a series of requirements and restrictions such as a maximum of 100 people per country of origin per year and cost), and after 3 years PR the Thai nationality, again with a series of requirements and restrictions and a reasonable cost. At least 1 reader here on TB acquired Thai nationality many years ago in addition to the Dutch one, but says that this has only become more difficult. A pity, because for couples it is very practical if both (and their children) have both nationalities. have you never complained about visas, rights / obligations and so on. But we are getting off the original topic: traveling with two passports is fine, take both with you but show the "correct" one at the checkpoint. You can then show the other on request. At the Dutch border you can safely show both, I don't understand Teun's reaction not to mention your dual nationality/passport in the Netherlands...
That was in response to the question of how to act with two passports if both countries would not tolerate it. Hence my comment: why let it be known if it is not requested.
I don't know where you got the information from, but you can indeed have two nationalities in NL. Read it on the government site below.
http://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen/nederlandse-nationaliteit/dubbele-nationaliteit
Moderator: The discussion is closed.
Thanks for the many responses.
As I mentioned, I had the idea that entering and leaving with the passport of the country where one enters/exits is/was the most common way. But I am now reassured about any problems that could arise.
Thanks!
We have been traveling with Thai passports in and out of Thailand for years, outside only Dutch passports. Please fill in cards.
This without any problems.
TAV dual nationality, as long as we get a queen with Argentinian nationality, it seems to me constitutional, everyone is equal before the law, not to allow Thai nationality next to the Dutch.
Question: And which passport number do you give when booking?
That is also verified at check-in? You can't mess around with passports. The airline also wants to know when and for how long you have been in or out of Thailand. (Entry and exit stamps)
Frank
If you book from the Netherlands: Dutch number and from Thailand: Thai passport number. logical anyway
Flight miles only want to know if you have a valid document to be admitted to your destination country. If they don't check that, they run the risk of having to fly you back.
So a Dutch/Thai passport to Thailand and a Thai passport + visa or + ID card or Dutch passport to the Netherlands.
What do you mean messing with passports.
If you have two passports you can use them completely legally.
And that's definitely not messing around
And it's none of the plane farmers' business how long I've been somewhere.
Aircraft farmers are just a transport company and nothing else.
At check in I categorically refuse to show my more of my passport as the title page.
The rest is none of their business.
Messing around with passports…..how do you get to it.
An acquaintance of mine is Dutch, was born in England, and also has an English passport because he was eligible.
And he also has a third passport, from Israel.
And he uses all three…
Thanks for the responses. Everything has now been said. We close the discussion.