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Home » Reader question » Reader question: Name differences between Dutch and Thai passports
Dear readers,
My partner is a Thai woman, we live permanently in Thailand. She has a small name difference in the Dutch and Thai passport.
Her Dutch passport is about to expire. When applying for a new Dutch passport, the Dutch embassy asks for a copy of the Thai passport, does that cause problems?
Anyone have experience with this, especially how it was resolved? Please share your detailed experiences if possible. solutions.
Thank you in advance.
Nico B
Which passport is it correct in? I assume in Thai.
Then you take that with you and explain that a typing error crept into the text last time. You still have to make a completely new application and her Thai passport is then a good basis.
If the Thai passport has a typing error, I would have it corrected in her place of residence. That can only cause you misery with transactions of real estate, possibly marriage and later with legacies.
Why don't you mention those two names, the Thai and the Dutch? Then I can tell you what and how. In general, translating a Thai name into Dutch can be done in many ways. There is no right way, there will always be differences,
A question out of curiosity.
why does she have to show her Thai passport when applying for a new Dutch passport?
Your wife still has Dutch nationality and they can check her data in the GBA system.
Officially, the Netherlands does not allow dual nationality, except for a few countries. Thailand is not one of those countries.
Isn't it a trick question from the Embassy?
I immediately thought of the same possibility. I've never heard of this. However, if you have 2 passports you can lose one in this way.
Jos, The Netherlands does not have a dual nationality (DN) exception based on countries, that would be pure discrimination*. The main rule is that NL DN is not allowed, but there are several exceptions to this. For example by birth, if the other country does not allow cancellation or if you are married to a Dutch national. A Thai-Dutch couple can therefore have a DN, both the Netherlands and Thailand allow that. In theory (but that is an expensive and long drive) a person born as a Dutch person can also eventually naturalize as a Thai. This has already been discussed in several blogs here so I will not go into it further. Interested: look around or check the nationality legislation of both NL and TH to see that DN is not a problem for married couples. So it is certainly not a trap of the embassy…
*discrimination does not affect the Netherlands, except for family migration where EU nationals and their non-EU family members fall under EU agreements (free movement of persons, Directive 2004/38/EC) but Dutch nationals under the now stricter Dutch migration legislation. The Netherlands used to be less strict than the EU, but then the borders had to be narrower for family migrants.
A Thai married to a Dutch person may keep their own nationality. So dual nationality is allowed in those cases.
Dual nationality is OK but 2 passports I don't think.
Lol, with that logic you shouldn't have an ID and passport either. Multiple nationality is (under certain conditions) not an issue for the Netherlands and Thailand. A passport is just a travel document that proves your nationality/identity, you can have both at the same time. If you travel between NL and TH, this is even necessary; You enter and leave NL on your NL passport and TH in and out on your Thai passport. If requested, you also show the other passport if this is necessary for something. No problem.
@Nico: put the Thai spelling here so Tino can give his.
2 passports is of course also allowed if you have 2 nationalities. My wife also has both
@ Josh, where did you get that from? That NL does not allow dual nationality? For your information, my son and daughter both have Thai and Dutch passports. I recognized them at the NL Embassy and received a nice document that they were now Dutch. Both received a Dutch passport immediately, after about a week. They are also registered in The Hague as being Dutch (I had it done personally). Both have Thai and Dutch nationality. They can even get a Dutch birth certificate through The Hague.
My son can keep his Thai and Dutch status, simply because he has compelling interests. Without a Thai passport he is not allowed to own land. And more exceptions are conceivable.
Dear Nico B,
I assume that the Thai passport contains a wrong spelling of your family name, and this certainly causes confusion at the Dutch embassy.
We had the same with our marriage papers, where the Thai official had also applied an incorrect spelling.
Fortunately, I noticed this during the handover at the amphur, so that we have had this changed immediately to avoid future confusion.
In case of incorrect spelling, I would write an extra explanation for the Dutch embassy, and provide it with a copy of a possible marriage certificate, where the family name is correctly stated.
Gr John.
Why worry which Thai/Dutch person will check both passports simultaneously and who has knowledge of both languages? And as already mentioned in another response, what's wrong, there is a mistake.
Dear Eddie,
I hope this response is not seen as chatting, but the NL Embassy as mentioned in the question asks for a copy of the Thai passport. In every Thai passport, the name is also written in our spelling, so that a difference immediately stands out, without having knowledge of both languages. To take a small example, if on a plane ticket the name has a slight difference with the name of the person checking in, the ticket is invalid, and this person remains on the ground, because the airline does not accept this person as a passenger.
Gr. John.
The surname in my girlfriend's passport is also spelled slightly differently in English than her brother's. When applying for a visa for a holiday in the Netherlands from her brother, we never had a problem due to the slightly different spelling in English. However, the spelling in Thai is the same and that is after all the real name.
Josh, you write…
' Officially, the Netherlands does not allow dual nationality, except for a few countries. Thailand is not one of those countries.'
Why would you think that? The Dutch Nationality Act explicitly allows this. See Article 15 paragraph 2 of that Kingdom Act, including letter c.
I think that in this case Thailand is the first nationality for Mrs. Thailand and only then the Dutch nationality and that Thailand is the country that can revoke her nationality, provided Thai law so provides. In addition, the NL embassy has no task because it is there for NL affairs.
Dear commenters, thank you for your responses and thoughts, I will provide some additional information and answer questions.
Erik, in the Thai passport the name is in both Thai and, let's call it, English/Dutch. It is not entirely clear how this happened, probably when applying for the 1st Dutch passport an error was made in copying the name from the Thai passport. I have not yet asked the Dutch Embassy a question about this. I think it would be easiest to replace the name in the Dutch passport, as my partner doesn't have much left there, only a passport and future state pension. Is that possible and how? No idea yet. In Thailand she has much more to do, municipality, land/house, policies, car, etc.
Tino, your response seems very relevant to me, you are right, translating a name can often be done in different ways. I checked with my partner, in Thailand you write the name Teankeaw or Teankaew. In Thai script ea or ae is written the same and is at the beginning of the written word, which I understand has to do with how you pronounce the word, so with a T after it for a different pronunciation than with a K after it.
It is therefore not about whether the translation is correct, but as said, the difference lies in the name from the Thai passport, in which the name taken over in English / Dutch is not the same as the name as stated in the Dutch passport in English/Dutch.
Jos, your question out of curiosity, as far as I know, my partner does not have to show her Thai passport when applying for a new Dutch passport, but hand in a copy, so that the Embassy could notice the name difference. Not providing a copy seems unwise to me, because how can a person in a Dutch passport not have any visas and still live / stay in Thailand and apply for a new Dutch passport in Bangkok. Her data can of course be verified in NL, or whether it will be GBA, I do not know, as said, she also lives permanently in Thailand and is no longer registered in the GBA in NL. Whether it is correct what you say that NL does not allow dual nationality, I do not know, what I do know is that it exists, Moroccans can never renounce their nationality and if they are also Dutch, they always have 2 nationalities. When the passport was issued to my partner, this was discussed by the municipality with the Thai Embassy. The latter indicated that my partner would not have to give up her Thai nationality if she would also acquire the Dutch nationality, and that did not happen then. Wouldn't it be a trick question from the Embassy as you say? What would be the use of that? It is a standard question in the application form for a new passport.
Erikbkk, losing a passport / nationality does not seem to happen that quickly, in NL the passport and nationality have been obtained completely legally without a requirement to renounce Thai nationality.
John Chiang rai, there is no misspelling of our family name in the Thai passport, my partner has her own family name in her passport, as said with a very slight difference in the names. Maybe I should write an extra explanation for the Embassy in which I indicate what I write to Tino above regarding the ae and the ea written the same? I agree, the difference can be noticed immediately if you look closely.
Eddy, that's a good question, is there a mistake? From Thai you can say in this case that you can translate the name with ae or ea, so the Embassy has little to comment, only as said, the difference is in the Thai passport in English / Dutch and the Dutch passport in English/Dutch. It remains to be seen whether the Embassy looks closely enough given the small difference, so far no one has noticed after years of entering and leaving Thailand using both passports.
RobV, that's right, my partner legally has dual nationality, so that does exist and I endorse what you report.
Is there anyone with experience with this same problem? Many thanks to all responders.
Nico B
My wife applied for an extension/renewal of her Dutch passport at the Dutch Embassy in Bangkok 6 weeks ago. She has attached a copy of her Thai passport upon request.
The regional support office Asia, where the application is apparently being processed, states that when Dutch nationality is obtained, Thai nationality is automatically cancelled. They are now asking for a copy of the reissue of Thai nationality. Explained 3 weeks ago that she can keep both nationalities (with the approval of the IND). No response received yet. So I don't know yet how that will turn out. In any case, take into account a longer issuing time for the passport. Who else has had problems with this?
Our situation: Dutch man with a Thai/Dutch woman. Notarial cohabitation agreement, and we live in Thailand.
Willem, my question was about a minor name difference, which now also results in a problem with dual nationality. I hope the moderator will allow me to comment.
Willem, your situation is completely identical to mine, I will give more information here how things went.
My partner's Thai nationality has certainly not automatically expired when I acquired Dutch nationality, on the contrary.
After the application for naturalization and NL passport was submitted to the municipality of residence, there was a conversation with someone who did research (presumably ind), this person then said that having dual nationality vwb. NL was no problem at all, but it was for Thailand. My partner then indicated that she certainly did not want to renounce her Thai nationality and, above all, that the researcher's idea was incorrect! The researcher then called the Thai Embassy in The Hague and they said that vwb. Thailand dual nationality was no problem at all. Subsequently, the researcher told my partner that she was right, she did not have to renounce her Thai nationality.
Subsequently, the naturalization was realized and the Dutch passport was issued.
The approval from the IND you are talking about, do you have it on paper or by telephone?
I'm very curious how your situation develops, so I'm running into that too. For further consultation, I ask you to contact me by email: [email protected].
I really hope you respond, we can look into it together.
Thank you,
Regards, Nico B
Dear Nico,
I know of some examples in my own environment, but this wouldn't be necessary. The prestigious Royal Thai Institute in Bangkok is responsible for scientific language research for the public benefit. Think of updating the standard dictionary. (พจนานุกรม ฉบับราชบัณฑิตยสถาน) From this role, a method has also been developed to romanize names. Every official translator should therefore arrive at the same unambiguous romanization. But this may go wrong due to carelessness or in some cases ignorance.
For those interested I will include the link to the document.
http://www.royin.go.th/upload/246/FileUpload/416_2157.pdf
Yours faithfully,
Edward
Dear NicoB,
From your question it was not clear to me whether it was about your joint family name, which was created by a possible marriage, and I did not think of mistaking a Thai name.
Unfortunately, when translating or adopting Thai names in our script, many variants exist, and often deserve the highest vigilance to see if they are indeed written correctly. Even if the difference between Teankeaw or Teankaew is so small, it can cause problems when discovered. Whether AE or EA is correct or incorrect is not important to me. For me it is much more important that there is no difference in the spelling of the name in both passports, and I would like to see this changed from the authority that has applied this different spelling.
Gr John.
@ Nico B, I got into a lot of trouble in Rotterdam with incorrect spelling, according to the officials at City Hall, and that involved 1 letter in her first name. I had her passport with me and because of that letter they demanded that my wife have a new passport made, because according to them the passport was fake. It was about the letter i that I filled in as y, is legally the same in the Netherlands. Then I went to The Hague and got a card with phone number from the official present there that if they had more trouble in R'dam I had to call her immediately. I gave up and went back to Bangkok where I had everything at the Embassy let do. With all their cooperation. Long story, too long to tell.
But the point is, have it translated exactly as it appears in her Thai passport and I mean exactly, with any stamps that it is the correct name. Good luck.