Reader question: Marriage, state pension and inheritance
Dear readers,
I am on a tourist visa in Thailand for 4,5 years. All this time I am still registered in the Netherlands and pay my health insurance. I know that after a year outside the Netherlands I can no longer claim this, but this is not relevant now.
I have been living with my Thai girlfriend for 3,5 years now. Getting married has the advantage of an annual visa, which saves the necessary trips / costs. My insecurities are regarding:
1. state pension. If I get married, I have to go to the Dutch consulate for proof that I am not already married. I'm worried that a light will come on in the Netherlands: Mister Mark, you haven't paid taxes for 4 years, and now you want to get married in Thailand? We are now going to unsubscribe you. I have my doubts whether the state pension will still exist in 30 years, but I don't want to exclude myself. Should I be concerned about this?
2. Legacy. I hope it will take a very long time, but how is this arranged? If I understand correctly, an inheritance has been deposited in my Thai bank, by law for half of my wife. However, getting married alone in Thailand is not legal in the Netherlands. If I now leave the inheritance in a Dutch account, can my Thai wife claim it?
I love my girlfriend very much, I'm certainly not stingy, but I don't like to see her divorce me a month after the inheritance and take half.
Thanks for the help!
Mark
I would like to be kept informed
Are you asking for advice on how to avoid the legal rules? Don't want to pay premiums but want to receive the benefit soon. I hope the moderator of this forum does not post such advice. The costs of the AOW are already rising enough due to the aging population. Encouraging fraud seems to me to be an insult to those who do pay premiums. Let the light come on quickly.
As for that inheritance: I first thought: “If she gets his inheritance, he is already deceased anyway”, but assume that it concerns an inheritance from your parents. They can stipulate in a will that the inheritance may never accrue to a partner of the beneficiary, even if the latter is married in community of property. Of course you never know whether that will also hold up in Thailand. Just like with the state pension, you can not only have the advantages, but also have to accept disadvantages. That's life.
Moderator: respond to the reader's question or don't respond.
I don't think you'll run into problems.
They can also arise when you have to apply for a new passport.
You will probably not get a new passport at the embassy.
If you are registered in the Netherlands, I assume that you have the necessary uncompleted tax forms there.
That should cause some problems.
Your health insurance may also refuse to pay out if you have to go to hospital, if they find out that you have been living here for more than 4 years.
Perhaps you should get your affairs in order before you get married.
Legacies are too complicated to make sense when two countries with their own laws are involved.
Like your parents? Exclude your Thai partner in their will and the money is in the bank in the Netherlands, it seems to me reasonably safe.
In Thailand, do you marry in community of property and will the exclusion by your parents? may not be valid.
Maybe it's just me but I don't understand the whole story.
As I understand it, Mark receives state pension. He has not been deregistered from the Netherlands. If it has not been deregistered, then you just pay your taxes and premiums on your income such as old age pension and state pension, don't you?
It does go wrong because he does not report that he will be staying abroad for more than 8 months.
And that could indeed cause problems for the health insurance fund if they found out. And he would then be automatically deregistered from the municipality if they know that he is not staying at the address where he is registered. And I am convinced that he is still registered at an address in the Netherlands.
And then the question about inheritance. Again so unclear. An inheritance paid into a Dutch account. Then half for my wife. Your wife? She only inherits if the marriage is registered in the Netherlands.
Just be clearer when you ask questions so that readers don't have to guess what your situation is.
This does not only apply to you, but it often happens that the reader's question is not very clear.
Mark has not yet retired, he deliberately remains registered in the Netherlands in order to build up state pension and not lose basic health insurance. Consciously or unconsciously, Mark does not realize that this is against the law (you must deregister after more than 8 months p/y outside the Netherlands) and is therefore a fraudster.
If I were Mark, I would first solve that problem: so either go back to live in the Netherlands for a longer period of time or unsubscribe. Then you can arrange your affairs in the right way. If he deregisters from the Netherlands, he could marry under Thai law without having to pass this on to the Netherlands (it is possible, with national duties in The Hague). If he arranges that in the right way, it should also work out with AOW and pension for him and his partner. You could then continue the Thai marriage under conditions (I think everything in Thailand that was their property before the marriage of persson A or B is only their property after divorce?) . To further arrange that properly regarding divorce and inheritance, I would hire an agency / lawyer.
Dear Mark, If you want to marry a Thai person in Thailand, you will be a Dutch resident – after all, you have not been deregistered as emigrated and keep a postal address in the Netherlands for health insurance, rent payment, AOW income, etc. and are staying on a tourist visa applied for in the Netherlands in Thailand – in the Netherlands you have to ask the IND for permission to marry a Thai person. After that, the Municipal Administration where you are registered will issue a declaration of unmarried status in person. You must give this statement to Ned. amb. BKK together with statement of income for permission to get married in Thailand. Are you married, your marriage must be legalized at Ned. amb. BKK and afterwards will be registered in the Basic Administration of your place of residence in the Netherlands. Permission is also requested from the IND for this. Then follows step information to the SVB of being married. Only then will your wife have rights under Dutch law. Married information automatically goes to Taxes, so any evasion may result in a refund of previously enjoyed benefits. AOW pensioners must also request permission from the SVB for a day when staying abroad. If that never happened, it could have consequences. Also applies to health insurance, etc. Think that you are best off simply following the rules because you will also be asked to demonstrate that you were able to make many trips with a stay in Thailand from your state pension, while the costs as a Dutch resident have never stopped . If that gives rise to suspicion of undeclared assets to the tax authorities, it is estimated that they can still impose a substantial additional assessment because the extended period for reporting undeclared money has now expired.
I read some responses above in which it is assumed that the questioner receives state pension. Strange, I conclude from the question that he is still 30 years away from that state pension and that he – among other things – wants to avoid missing 'accrual years'. That is why he does not want to lose his registration in NL. Of course, the fact remains that he cheats.
I completely agree with Cornelis, the legacy is also something for the future because he hopes it will last for a very long time. Death of his parents? So the questioner is still young, it would be nice if he provided the correct information in his question. Now it is a guess, except that he wants to defraud the AOW.
Moderator: It is not the intention to lecture a questioner, but to answer his question.
In essence, more questions are asked than just about AOW and Inheritance. Such a disguised question in turn gives rise to speculation and/or reasoning. I'm going to do this last one, for the education and entertainment of other readers as well.
The question surrounding the state pension is in itself a source of irritation. The questioner Mark more or less indicates that he does not think that the AOW will still exist as a retirement provision in 30 years' time. On the other hand, he “doesn't want to be left out”. Because if the AOW still exists, Mark would like to be among those who receive a compliant benefit. On the other hand, he has not paid taxes for 4 years. So no social legislation premiums, within which the AOW falls. You can rightly raise the question to what extent Mark is entitled to an AOW benefit? In addition, the AOW accrual applies to NL residents. Mark, on the other hand, has been living outside the Netherlands for 4,5 years, and he indicates that this living situation will continue for several more years.
His actual question is: Should I be concerned about a possible state pension in due course? The answer is simple. No, unless he wants to receive an AOW benefit in due course.
Now it wants a discount of 2% for every year not living in NL. It looks like he is still 30 years away from that payment, so the discount will be close to 70%. Anyway, Mark tries to prevent that by staying in TH on the basis of a tourist visa, and by not deregistering from NL. Which gives him the advantage of cherishing health insurance in NL. With which his original question must be answered with 'Yes', because he is arranging his stay in both TH and NL against all regulations. It is not allowed to stay in TH for a long time on the basis of a tourist visa, and not deregistering in NL for a stay of more than 8 months is also not allowed. Which means that using NL health insurance is also not allowed. Which means that in due course he will have to deal with the NZa, and in any case with the relevant health insurance fund if it ever and unexpectedly comes to long-term medical treatments and hospitalizations.
Then the inheritance issue. He loves his girlfriend, is not stingy, is considering marriage (after all, it will give him an advantage, namely an annual visa and the saving of travel costs on current visa runs,) but does not like it if his girlfriend/wife demands half of their bank account , if an expected inheritance has been deposited into that account.
His question is therefore: can his event. Thai wife to be entitled to 50% of an amount in a bank account in NL in the event of a divorce? He wonders whether this can be prevented by, for example, not registering a marriage in TH in NL?
You'd think he'd be rethinking the foundations of his current relationship with his TH girlfriend, if he's harboring such suspicious thoughts of her. In addition, he should know that a legal marriage can also be concluded in TH on the basis of prenuptial agreements, such as exclusion of NL funds due to NL inheritance obtained from NL (blood) relations, in the event of a divorce from a marriage concluded in TH. For the conditions to be formulated in the marriage contract, he must engage a TH lawyer, in which the marriage partner, i.e. his girlfriend, is also involved. I think for Mark that's where the rub is. Which means he's getting himself into trouble across the board. On a long-term tourist visa in TH, no deregistration from NL, irregular retention of NL address and NL health insurance fund, nevertheless wanting to enjoy state pension in due course, but not paying social security contributions, and in TH unsure of the intention of a relationship partner: Mark clearly has his things not in order.