Dear readers,
Maybe a superfluous story, but I still hope for posting and reactions.
We, my wife and I come to Thailand for about 5 years, not permanently but for longer periods. Because we have already passed the age of 65, we have chosen this option because of insurance, etc. and we like that. When you stay in Thailand so often, you also make a lot of friends and that's what my story is about.
Our friend Ger has been staying in Thailand for a long time and is uninsured regarding medical expenses, he recently had a serious accident with his scooter and suffered a serious brain injury… Yes, and then the problems come. Because his benefit was seized due to other matters that played a role in the Netherlands, Ger had to live on 5 euros a month. With the help of family and friends we try to help him as much as possible. Hospital bills have been paid and he is currently staying in some kind of shelter where he is tied to the bed because he is confused and runs away.
We family and friends want to move him to the Netherlands as soon as possible, but in this condition he is not allowed and cannot travel. His passport and visa must also be extended during this period, so I sent a registered letter to our embassy and did not ask for money or anything like that, but only for information or suggestions as to what Ger's options were. Unfortunately I do not get a reply from our embassy, which I find very regrettable and highly indecent.
I know that there may be people who say it's their own fault big bump and that is of course true, but you can't just leave a friend and fellow countryman to his fate.
That's why I want to ask and hope if there are people who might have suggestions that we can do something with?
Thank you and best regards,
Roelof
Dear Roelof, a very unpleasant situation. And I appreciate you wanting to help Ger. First of all, it is important that he renews his passport, or at least that it is arranged.
I would write to the embassy again and call because I am convinced that there is a misunderstanding. The embassy will answer, perhaps your e-mail or letter has not arrived.
Ger does not have an appearance obligation, see here: https://www.thailandblog.nl/expats-en-pensionado/paspoort/vrijgesteld-verschijningsplicht-paspoort/
After the renewal of the passport, you have to get started with the repatriation. To do this, contact the major emergency centers in the Netherlands: Eurocross, ANWB, SOS International and Allianz Global Assistance. Ask for a quote on what it will cost if they take care of that. Normally, the travel insurer takes care of these costs, but that is not possible now because Ger is uninsured. Taking care of the repatriation yourself is virtually impossible. Count on thousands of euros in costs. Then collect money and then it should work.
A sad thing, and especially because Ger is mentally confused and cannot arrange anything himself.
What I miss in the story is WHERE Ger is now, in which city or region.
Do not count on financial support from the government; then they can keep going. His family will have to arrange it. His visa or current extension can be extended due to illness, including for a companion; consult the visa experts in this blog.
Once in the Netherlands, Ger can rely on compulsory health insurance and possibly even earlier, as soon as the single journey ticket has been purchased. I would consult an insurance agent for that.
And once registered in the Netherlands, the attachment on his income will lapse up to the attachment-free foot and the family can use that part, because Ger will possibly be hospitalized for a long time, to recover the travel costs.
I wish you all the best of luck with this.
First of all, thank you for posting my story and request so quickly, we can certainly do something with the recommendations that have been made and will work with them if possible. To answer Erik's question Ger is currently staying in a kind of shelter in Mae Rim /Chiang Mai.
Roelof
It is possible that even more misery awaits him in the Netherlands. Yes, he can take out health insurance because the insurers are not allowed to exclude him. However, if I read it correctly, Ger is about someone for whom the AWBZ is just as important. (General Exceptional Medical Expenses Act). Dutch people who (again) come to live in the Netherlands are, in my opinion, excluded from the AWBZ for the first year. It may be that this regulation has not yet taken effect, but I thought it had. You may then go to a doctor, specialist or be admitted to a hospital because these matters are covered by the health insurance. However, long-term stays in a hospital are now only possible if the equipment and expertise that only hospitals have are actually needed. Very quickly you will be transferred to a care institution. As a returning Dutch citizen, however, you are not insured for a long-term stay in a care institution for the first year because this falls under the AWBZ. I could be completely wrong, but it is certainly something that also needs to be investigated if a care institution is the only way out for Ger in the Netherlands.
I have just returned to the Netherlands for 3 weeks after 18 months in Thailand, so I was no longer registered. but you just have to have a place to live otherwise you cannot register that is very important even if it is just a room that you rent or with family I even believe that you can also register via the Salvation Army but I'm not sure that you have to inform the relevant municipality
Once you have re-registered in the Netherlands, you can arrange your health insurance. If Ger cannot be admitted to a hospital because he does not need that specific care, he will have to go to a care institution. This care falls under the AWBZ, the health insurer then decides how long the waiting time will be before Ger can be admitted, in principle the maximum waiting time is 1 year.
A regular ticket would be the easiest and most economical way. Ask a doctor for help after explaining the situation, maybe Ger can be given a sedative medicine so that this mode of transportation can be done, along with a chaperone?
Success and strength with the help you offer.
From my own experience as a flight attendant at Lufthansa, I know that Ger cannot fly with a normal ticket if he is mentally confused. He must be supervised by a doctor who can intervene when necessary.
I don't suppose Ger is a nuisance, but people have a fear of flying (over 75%) and if someone in a state like Ger stands up in their confusion during the flight, it can bring a lot of anxiety.
I myself once had to spend hours with an elderly man flying alone who was somehow on our plane. It was Korean and didn't speak anything else. The man was addressing and waking up every Asian-looking person in the middle of the night and hitting everything and anything with his stick. At one point he was standing in his underpants because he had unscrewed his artificial leg. That hurt him.
I want to illustrate what it entails. You're locked in a tube for 10 hours with nowhere to go. Of course if Ger is easy as a lamb and does what you say, things can go well. In any case, do yourself a favor and also Ger, to contact the airline you want to fly with. You will see that there will be not only rejections, but maybe even concessions.
You have to remember that in those ten hours, Ger also has to go to the toilet. He will also have to be confined to his seat during a night flight (when he already gets up in the hospital). Supervisors have had training for this and are also paid for it. They can and will, if necessary, intervene harder than you dare as a friend.
I also wish you the best of luck and love that you are so committed to a friend!
In principle, there is no entitlement to AWBZ (it is called differently these days) for the first 12 months after return. The waiting period depends on the circumstances after re-registration in the Netherlands. The treating doctors and social workers make a report of this that can lead to accelerated admission. That takes some time, so care at home with family or friends is a first (short) step.
Hello Roelof, 5 weeks ago I visited Ger, he was already a bit rainy then
After that I spent 3 weeks approaching Ger, yesterday I found out that he had an accident and is in a shelter, it is not clear how we can help him (and his family and child)
Dick CM
Indeed, Ger was depressed because of the situation he was in, if you want more information my email address is known to the editors and may be given to you as far as I'm concerned.
Roelof
Hello Roelf
I tried to get your E-mail via Thailand blog but they don't give it, I have discussed your situation with Tino Kuis (he is going to the Netherlands this week) and hope to get your E-mail through this message.
My email is [email protected]
Dear Roelof, don't expect too much from the embassy, which is nowadays more of a trading post for multinationals than a refuge for Dutch people who are in trouble. Financially you don't have to expect anything at all from that side.
Repatriating a sick person can be quite expensive, especially if the person in question is dependent on help and/or special transport. From your story I understand that Ger is confused, but still mobile. Perhaps it is possible to have him fly back with a normal flight accompanied by family or friends. A special flight via emergency services cannot be paid for.
It is also important to first inquire in advance with the municipality where he was last registered, about possibilities for shelter and assistance. Don't count on financial help here either, there may be a right to an emergency benefit, but given that Ger has a benefit, this is not certain either.
As Erik has already reported, the attachment on his benefit will also largely lapse. In the Netherlands, wages or benefits may be seized up to 90% of social assistance benefits. It is therefore also important to enter into a conclave with the seizing authority(ies) about reducing the attachment as soon as possible.
I wish you success and lots of strength! I also hope that you will keep us informed about developments via this blog, because these are things that occur more often.
You are Dutch.. you are in need abroad.
Then you can assume that the Dutch embassy will assist you.
Years ago I saw a test about aid from embassies and the Netherlands scored very low.
England actually helps .. The Netherlands let you swim .. really super scandalous.
I therefore hope that the Dutch embassy will lend Ger a helping hand.
after all.. that's what they are there for.
No, don't agree with you. Then no one would have to take out insurance because if you have problems, call the embassy. There is also such a thing as personal responsibility.
Indeed Khan Peter,
You cannot expect the embassy to be an alternative to travel insurance plus proper preparation for holiday/migration. Also because there have been significant cutbacks at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and because not everyone is equally honest. I believe that earlier on the blog there was an interview with Jitze Bosma or that in the past it sometimes happened that an emergency advance or loan was never paid back. Very sad, of course, when people express their thanks in such a way after services rendered. I can't find that interview anymore.
Read tips:
- https://www.thailandblog.nl/achtergrond/consulaire-hulp-en-andere-bijstand-thailand/
-
https://www.thailandblog.nl/expats-en-pensionado/opnieuw-nederlandse-ambassade/
Hence the importance of being insured and arranging your affairs/preparation. What is adequate or responsible not to be under/over insured differs per individual and also which risks you dare to take. Do I sometimes travel without travel insurance? Yes, but if things go wrong I have to sit on the blisters and not expect a third party to help me out.
I can only advise the questioner what my intuition says: see if this man can go back on a regular flight under escort. Otherwise it will be a very expensive experience. The embassy can probably help with the passport, that's what they're there for. They may have a list of contact numbers who can help, but don't expect them to guide you from A to Z. They are not there for that and have even been abused in the past. I hope everything will be fine, strength and success!
And when your own is no longer your own? Who is responsible then?
The embassy also helps, for example by contacting family.
However, they are not a bank.
Moderator: please only respond to the reader's question.
Hallo,
Ger is in trouble and that is of course annoying for him. However, be careful with the helping hand because the first person to address / responsible is his family. If you actually intervene, you are assured of responsibility for what you have done. So I advise Roelof, if he wants to help, to inform the embassy in writing about Ger's condition and to ask to approach his family.
Regards,
Moderator: Response to reader question only, please.
My advice is to contact SOS or EUROCROSS if they can do something, sometimes they do have an arrangement for that because the embassy does nothing in such a case.
What I understand is Ger is not mobile if that is the case you could buy a normal ticket but then you depend on the airline whether they take it with you, you should also inform such a ticket then costs about 600 to 700 euros
I'm afraid that such emergency centers also do not feel compelled to bear the costs - and why should they?
Dear,
His family should take care of the coordination here.
They have to act as guarantor and have him domiciled at
them at home. The costs for repatriation can become very high, and the stabilization of Ger would best take place in Thailand.
For passport and visa, contact the local authorities.
Lots of courage, and Ger is lucky to have such friends.
For the AWBZ provisions, I would like to refer readers to the 'medical expenses' file that you will find in the left column of this blog. It is explained therein. Indeed, a waiting period of 12 months is possible.
Another thing I have heard about, but experts are better aware of than I am, is that the compulsory health insurance policy can start a short period BEFORE registration in the Netherlands. Then there must be a travel plan and a one-way ticket. Consult an expert in this field.
I do not share 'gerard's statement that the embassy should step in. Financial: never unless the family comes first, for example on the bank account of the embassy.
What I definitely expect from the embassy is a helping hand and, as foreign embassies allow, a phone call to the home country. In this context, answering a registered letter (was there a telephone number?) is very polite.
Hai, we have just experienced this, the embassy does not give money, they only advise you. And to get Ger to the Netherlands in this case you have to ask permission from a doctor who specializes in this kind of disease. We are now back in NL for 5 weeks and are officially insured for everything again, basic insurance is mandatory but you must be registered in NL. So see if there is family where he can go here and everything can be arranged. Hope for a good outcome for Ger. Good luck and success with everything.
Gr Margaret
I respond from a point of view that I have experienced this myself… I too fell victim to a serious traffic accident abroad with a flight offence. Despite I received almost no help, I am quite willing to help other people, yet I am not aware of the possibilities of and embassy etc. in relation to Thailand.
I propose to set up a support fund for Ger, to which I would first like to deposit some of my small benefit every month. I want to extend my help even further to free physical assistance and to report Ger to the Netherlands.
I am a person with a lot of free time which I want to fill positively, that's why I also make myself available for other matters and problems, so if someone thinks they can use help, they can always contact me on condition not to abuse their goodness.
With best regards
Jeanluc [email protected]
“Because his benefit was seized due to other matters that played a role in the Netherlands, Ger had to live on 5 euros a month.”
Cannot be true,
1. An attachment may only be levied until someone retains 90% of the assistance.
2. and “Our friend Ger has been staying in Thailand for a long time” of those 5 euros per month….
According to my information, when someone has been deregistered and lives in Thailand, the benefit can be completely seized, but this is a matter that I am not concerned with.
First of all I would like to thank everyone for the positive answers to my story, but I would like to emphasize that we are certainly not after money and certainly not from the embassy, I understand very well that they cannot start with that, my intention was to people who may have experienced the same thing to get some information and that happened to this one, thank you very much for that.
Roelof
Provided that it is properly documented, the family in the Netherlands can ask the subdistrict court judge to set an attachment-free rate in view of the current circumstances. You will need a lawyer or other expert for that. Then there will be room in financing.
See this article from Civil Procedure…
Article 475e
No attachment-free foot applies to claims of a debtor who does not live or permanently reside in the Netherlands. However, if he demonstrates that he has insufficient means of subsistence beyond these claims, the subdistrict court may, at his request, set an attachment-free rate for his claims against debtors residing in the Netherlands.