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Home » Reader question » Does the increase in the state pension also apply to Dutch retirees in Thailand?
Dear readers,
Good news from the Netherlands: minimum wage, and therefore also state pension, will be increased by 10% from January due to increased living costs and high energy bills.
My question: does this also apply to foreigners living in Thailand? Where the higher cost of living is not nearly as dramatic as in the Netherlands?
Regards,
Do
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Sure. For NL this is still the case. (No more increases in state pension in UK after you leave the country)
Wil, have you read somewhere that it only applies to NL and EU? Me neither.
I follow Wil's reasoning that the cost of living is lower in Thailand and thus the index increase may not apply to expats. But what about those who live in NY, should they get extra, because living is much more expensive there. Personally, I think you deserve what you've worked for all your life. Do you do that now in Spain or Thailand or your home country, it doesn't matter. It is still about what you get after your retirement depending on your years of service and income and cannot be based on where you will spend it and how much.
Totally agree Hans. Unfortunately, we have the pay-as-you-go system for the AOW. So the workers
cq residents who pay AOW contributions, pay for those who currently receive the AOW. Because you don't really pay for your own money, I always have the feeling that you are more dependent on government decisions, for example. Even though there is a whole law around it. But very personal of course.
To get back to your "Can't be based on where you spend it." The Netherlands does have the “country of residence principle” and that is therefore based on where you live and spend it. You will therefore receive less AOW in various countries. That is also what I mean by the feeling that you have no grip on such an “apportionment system AOW”. Fortunately not yet for Thailand, but don't wake them up.
Dear Pjotter, that is absolutely not true what you say. Based on the country of residence principle, you will NOT be reduced (I repeat: not) on your state pension because the State of Residence Principle Act has no purport with regard to state pension benefits. The country of residence principle is applied to benefits due to child benefit and child budget, and to those based on WIA and ANW. (In some reactions, reference is made to the application of the country of residence principle: this indeed had to do with, among other things, Wia and not with AOW, and the application was even declared null and void.)
Pjotter, in my answer to Andrew I explained how state pension rights are limited in a foreign country and that has everything to do with the BEU, the Limitation on Export Benefits. By no means does a BEU treaty exist with every country; with Thailand and so, if you live in Thailand, you will receive the single person's benefit if you are actually single.
This therefore has nothing to do with the country of residence principle; this does not (yet) apply to the AOW.
The fact that the state pension depends on politics in the Netherlands is precisely one of the reasons why an association is committed to allowing you to vote for the senate if you live abroad. When you go to vote (next year), pay close attention to which parties want to limit the export of benefits.
We don't vote for the Senate - 1st Chamber - in NL, do we?
Cornelis, that's really coming. You missed the messages here too.
Currently, the members of the 1st Chamber are elected by the members of the Provincial Council. Does that change? Then I must have missed something…
Cornelis, it will stay that way, but an electoral college will be added and that consists of the votes from foreigners. Say a 13th province.
Just save up for next year or in 2 years more tax will be withheld because of the new treaty.
AOW is AOW. There are no different classes. Only being single or with a relationship are possible factors.
For the AOW there will be 10% on the regular increase, the rate 1st bracket IB will also go down slightly.
All in all approx. 12% Applies in the Netherlands and Worldwide. The pico bello is explained on the NIBUD site.
Dear Andrew van Schaik (without capitals?)
A 10% regular increase is pleasantly high.
The rate of bracket 1 decreases by no less than 0,14% according torend.nl and NIBUD.
So makes a total of 10,14%.
regards George
George, grab your sackcloth.
In Thailand, my state pension will be 10 percent higher. The rate is 9 percent (plus some after the decimal….) so my bonus will be 10 minus 0.9 or 9,1 percent net more.
In the Netherlands I now pay about 19 percent as an AOW pensioner. Ten percent more minus 19 percent of that leaves about 8,1 percent net more of those ten.
Hope you're not right Erik.
What we (I think) should take into account is the BEU law. Dutch people living in Indonesia, for example, have been caught as a result. That will cost money and many Dutch people who now live in Thailand and barely meet the income requirements of their Visa will have to return.
Because AOW is a social benefit, the amount can be adjusted by the law BEU to the Thai livelihood.
This law will undoubtedly be tested against the new treaty.
Andrew, is that right?
Maybe better ask this to an expert on social insurance like Lammert de Haan but when I read this site,
https://www.stimulansz.nl/wonen-thailand-indonesie-en-zuid-afrika-uitkering/
then the AOW will not be curtailed on the basis of local cost of living. Although I can imagine that there are political parties in NL that would like to change this. Just think of the tax credits.
In BEU countries, such as Thailand, you can get more than the basic AOW (the 50% benefit, the cohabitation benefit) if you are given control over the way of living (together) in that country on the basis of a BEU treaty. The SSO in Thailand also does this.
Hum, the SSO checks that… Well, they see if the partner comes along and has an ID. They never actually came to check whether I live alone (with a right to the 70% benefit) or live together (with a right to a partner allowance at the time).
But ask Lammert de Haan, this is more his field.
Ultimately, your total net old age pension will increase by 10%, because the levy before and after the increase is almost the same.
Will, what or who do you mean by foreigners!
Dear Will, you are asking your question wrong. You are talking about: “foreigners living in Thailand”. I think that people from India or Canada, for example, do not receive a Dutch state pension. But if you mean, among other things, Dutch pensioners with an AOW living in Thailand, then Erik's answer will suffice.
Oh…..I really understood that the AOW was for all foreigners. I'm a little sorry about the nitpicking.
Dear Henk, you do understand it wrong. AOW is not available for all foreigners. However, for those who have lived in the Netherlands (for a number of years) and accrued 2% of the benefit per year that they lived there. No nitpicking, but avoiding misunderstandings. Too often people rely on their own wisdom. For example, if a Thai woman would receive state pension if her Dutch partner dies. Not so.
Of course, by foreigners I mean the Dutch pensioners. Sorry for my language error
Oh, I misread that too. WELL, so actually by accident, given the correct answer to the intended question Wil, ha ha.
Idd what Tambon says Henk. Looked up some names of some countries for fun. And also what Tambon says about a Thai woman (never lived or worked in the Netherlands) receiving state pension if her Dutch partner dies. That is not the case in NL.
For example, in Germany, Switzerland and Austria, the Thai ladies DO receive a “Witwenrente” after they have been married for at least 3 years to a Farang from those countries. 70% of the pension the deceased man had. Even if the lady has never been to those countries.
Germany:
Deutsche Rentenversicherung > State interest rate
International:
Basic state guest house
Switzerland:
AHV – Alter- und Hinterlassenenversicherung
Belgium:
retirement pension
France:
retreat
Spain:
Social security
Italy:
old age
Austria:
Pensions versicherung
Pjotter, at least for Germany, the marriage must be registered in the population register; in Germany this is called the Familienstand department at the municipality where the spouse is or was registered. This will also be the case in other countries.
Correct Eric. Well, every country has its pros and cons.
Australia also has a “nice” state pension. You only get this if you have lived in Australia for at least 2 consecutive years.
So set like in my case; I/the Australian live in Thailand now and have no state pension yet. You do not get that at your AOW/state pension age. To get that, you/the Australian must first live in Australia for at least 2 years.