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Reader question: Do I have to pay taxes in Thailand?

By Editorial
Posted in Reader question
Tags: ,
October 10, 2012

Dear Thailand blog readers,

I turned 65 this year, I have a Thai girlfriend and a rented house in Bangkok.

I have to live on my AOW € 1035 per month annual income about € 13.000. The amount will be supplemented with a small monthly allowance from the UAE. € 350.– on an annual basis € 4.200.– So I come to € 17.200.– on an annual basis.

If I enter Thailand do I have to pay tax on this benefit to the Thai state?

I'm definitely not going to work there.

Who can answer this for me?

in anticipation and thanksgiving,

Robert

Number of times read: 251

52 Responses to “Reader Question: Do I Have to Pay Tax in Thailand?”

  1. dave says up
    10 October 2012 at 21: 28

    Moderator: someone who asks a serious question also wants a serious response. If you don't know, don't respond.

  2. Taste says up
    10 October 2012 at 22: 31

    Very short NO
    Even if you deregister from the Netherlands, you still pay your taxes
    in the Netherlands.
    Please note that if you come to live here permanently and you are not married to your girlfriend, you must be able to present an annual income of 800000 baht. Your benefit is approximately 675

    But still the best here in Thailand

    Gust

  3. Khan Sugar says up
    10 October 2012 at 23: 47

    Idem, I agree with what Gust writes, or for Belgians in the same situation.
    Thailand does not tax the Belgian pension…not any pension.

    Furthermore, I do not think that you need to be able to provide an annual income of 800K, it is sufficient to secure 800K in an account that you present year after year, regardless of the size of your pension, you are then certain of your pension year after year. extension of stay…unless the law is amended.
    Moreover, you can also present a combination of pension and savings, just make sure that it is 800K together on an annual basis.

    Best regards,

    Khan Sugar

    • louis says up
      11 October 2012 at 16: 18

      a combination of pension and a rack on a bench
      -Which documents do I have to submit for my monthly pension?
      -where should I take it, should I have it translated? or validate ?

      please inquire

      • Khan Sugar says up
        11 October 2012 at 23: 25

        Louis,

        You must prove that the pension or part of it has entered Thailand.
        It is sufficient to ask your Thai bank for proof of the funds transferred to your account there within the last year.
        For example: 12 x € 1.000 = +/- 480.000 baht and you can supplement this with a savings account that is also in Thailand of at least 320.000 baht to be able to present 800K together. You don't need to have anything translated or legalized.

        Best regards,

        Khan Sugar

  4. Peter vz says up
    11 October 2012 at 02: 22

    In most countries, tax liability arises for a stay of 180 days or more. The Thai tax authorities also use this (tax residency). Being taxable in a country does not automatically mean that you also have to pay tax. That depends, for example, on a tax agreement between two countries. If you pay tax on your state pension in the Netherlands, you do not have to pay tax on that amount again in Thailand because the Netherlands and Thailand have a tax treaty. You may have to pay tax in Thailand for the part you receive from the UAE. It is good to investigate in advance whether a tax treaty exists and whether that part is already taxed in the UAE.
    If there is no tax treaty, there is a chance that you will be taxed in both countries.

    • computing says up
      31 May 2013 at 11: 11

      Dear Peter,

      Can you tell me what UAE stands for?
      When I search in google I come up with United Arab Emirates and that won't be it anyway

      regards computing

      • BA says up
        31 May 2013 at 12: 20

        The article states that the writer receives a small pension from the UAE.

        UAE stands for United Arab Emirates.

  5. loan catch says up
    11 October 2012 at 03: 14

    Robert, if you pay income tax in the Netherlands, then not in Thailand, Thailand has been trying to levy an income tax for a few years, but they don't seem to be succeeding. Thailand is a treaty country, so they can levy it like the Netherlands does. but this is not allowed twice for the same amount.
    your income is 17.200 net, otherwise you must have some savings to meet the requirements (with the current exchange rate) to be allowed to stay

    Regards Lee

  6. jogchum says up
    11 October 2012 at 04: 47

    I don't know if the benefit you receive monthly from the UAE is a state benefit.
    If that is the case, I think you will continue to pay tax in the Netherlands. About your state pension
    you continue to pay tax in the Netherlands, but that is only 5a6 Euro per month.
    In addition to my state pension, I also have a pension from the metal industry, but I have an exemption
    received from paying tax on this pension in the Netherlands.
    Also don't pay taxes in Thailand, yet I heard it said that Thailand in 2015
    tax on all incomes, whether you work or not.

  7. Dutch says up
    11 October 2012 at 04: 48

    There is a tax treaty between Thailand and the Netherlands (1976)
    http://www.bia.co.th/020.html

    Thai tax website (english)
    http://www.rd.go.th/publish/16399.0.html
    http://www.rd.go.th/publish/6045.0.html
    http://www.rd.go.th/publish/1785.0.html (Articles 18 and 19)

    Thai Immigration Service
    http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/doc/temporarystay/policy777-2551_en.pdf

    example of OA (long stay) visa as applies in Singapore (same for the Netherlands)
    http://thaiembassy.sg/consular-visa-matters/visa-requirements/non-immigrant-visa-o-a-long-stay
    Your entitlement to AOW will actually be checked in Thailand by the SSO (say the Thai UWV) and you will have to/be able to give up cohabitation with your girlfriend. This may have positive consequences for your AOW benefit.
    If you are not married, you will need to be able to prove an income of 65000 baht/month for an annual visa or 800.000 baht in a (own) savings account or a combination of both. (If you are married to your Thai partner, this amount will be 400.000 baht/ year)

    You will be able to apply for an exemption from income tax at the tax authorities in Roermond and your UAE pension will be exempted and a payroll tax of one/two euros per month will be withheld from the AOW. This exemption will certainly be granted if you have the necessary papers ( proof that you actually live in Thailand).

    You will have to take into account that you will have to take out health insurance again because the Dutch insurance cannot be continued.
    Living at your own risk is not advisable because your income is insufficient to form a buffer to take this risk yourself.

  8. hair pie says up
    11 October 2012 at 09: 40

    if you only go to thailand and deregister in the netherlands you will receive gross net
    paid in Thailand that also applies to your UAW and you pay a little bit of call. in thailand and THEN DO NOT HAVE TO PAY ANY BEL .IN .NED .more.
    inquire about this in the Netherlands at the SVB[social insurance bank].
    Have fun in Thailand.

  9. richard says up
    11 October 2012 at 10: 02

    Moderator: Comment unreadable.

    • Ronny says up
      11 October 2012 at 10: 47

      Sorry, but this is very confusing... I honestly don't understand it at all.
      Why do you actually need a tax office? and what a confusing story with that visa, while as a retiree you can simply get an annual visa.

  10. louis says up
    11 October 2012 at 10: 31

    Moderator: Your comment must be on topic. This posting is not about a visa.

  11. BramSiam says up
    11 October 2012 at 10: 51

    I am briefly triggered by Richard's sentence that you do not have to pay tax on ABP in Thailand. This is true, but it may be good to know that, even if you deregister as a resident of the Netherlands, you will still be liable to pay tax in the Netherlands on the pension accrued with ABP. This does not apply to corporate pensions. The Dutch government always levies tax on pensions accrued with the government.

    • Cornelis says up
      11 October 2012 at 11: 43

      I immediately believe you, but I find it a strange thing - the ABP is simply a private pension fund where the government has placed its pension scheme. Not a state pension, as the state pension actually is.

    • Joseph says up
      31 May 2013 at 10: 25

      If you have been deregistered in the Netherlands and have therefore permanently settled in Thailand and you have accrued a pension in the Netherlands through the ABP, you will always have to pay wage tax to the Dutch State (so-called withholding tax). It is therefore a myth that people say that accrued pension in the Netherlands is paid out gross - net!!

  12. Leo Bosch says up
    11 October 2012 at 11: 11

    @Moderator,

    Can you point out to Richard that his response is practically unreadable due to the lack of punctuation marks, capital letters, paragraph structure and sentence structure that cannot be followed.
    (In one sentence 8 x Thailand is mentioned)

    Moreover, he also gives incorrect information, but there will be little you can do about it.

    Leo Bosch.

  13. Leo Bosch says up
    11 October 2012 at 11: 20

    To clarify: the statement that you have to pay tax in Thailand on all non-government income is not correct,

    If you have been deregistered you have tax exemption on your pension in NL, but in Thailand tax is levied on it.

    Leo Bosch.

  14. Leo Bosch says up
    11 October 2012 at 11: 26

    @Richard,

    Even if you have a tax exemption on your pension in the Netherlands, you do not have to pay tax on it in Thailand.
    And that is not government revenue.

    Leo Bosch.

  15. HansNL says up
    11 October 2012 at 11: 54

    Deregistering from the Netherlands means registering in Thailand
    Deregistered from the Netherlands = no longer liable to pay tax in the Netherlands.
    Registered in Thailand = liable to tax in Thailand.\

    Mind you, being taxable does not mean you also have to pay tax.
    So far, Thailand does NOT tax government pensions, and if I do, none at all.

    The tax liability in Thailand is confirmed by having an ID number, this number is also your tax number.

    Read it, taxable means that you comply with the treaty between TH and NL.
    And therefore NOT the actual payment of tax.

    If you live in Thailand, you are liable for tax in Thailand, and no longer in the Netherlands.

    Incidentally, as a foreigner in Thailand you can also voluntarily pay tax.
    The height?
    Speak to the tax office in Thailand.
    But with AOW and/or supplementary government pensions (a very broad term) you do not have to pay taxes

    Incidentally, Thailand has a treaty with the Netherlands, so the so-called country of residence principle cannot be applied to date.
    In view of the hurdles that the Dutch government has recently incurred in Europe, it is very doubtful whether the so-called country of residence principle may be applied.
    The EU regulations then speak of discrimination against equal citizens.

    But the Netherlands, the best boy in the class, they say, very often goes off the beaten track when it comes to taxes and social security.
    Completely wrong.

    The tax liability in the Netherlands on pensions will always exist.
    After all, a protective assessment is imposed at all times.
    So you still owe this amount, but do not have to pay it.

    Incidentally, I understand that the maximum taxable amount for income from work, not pension, can be limited to the much-mentioned 65,000 baht for unmarried persons and 40,000 baht for married persons, provided that this is paid monthly into a Thai bank account.
    There is a tax exemption for a certain amount, there are various deductions, in short, choose as t effect. for tax liability in Thailand.
    In any case, you pay less than in the Netherlands

  16. Frank says up
    11 October 2012 at 12: 18

    The partner allowance is Negative for a foreign partner who has not lived in the Netherlands since the age of 16 (i.e. 50 years).
    When I was alone I received my normal AOW approximately 1200. Since I have a partner I only get 903.
    I have challenged this all the way to court but it is no different…
    The negative surcharge depends on her age and when she came here.
    Suppose she was 50 when she came here, then the AOW gap is 50 minus 16 = 34 years.
    Now there was recently a letter from the UWV that you can close that gap with a voluntary purchase payment. You can request a quote for this (without obligation). I have applied for it but have no idea how high that amount is.
    The advantage is that your foreign partner receives the full AOW amount (in NL).
    This is especially important if she finds herself alone for whatever reason.

    Frank F

  17. BramSiam says up
    11 October 2012 at 12: 18

    Dear Richard and others,
    I have not yet experienced it in practice, but I once raised it with the ABP. They literally responded as follows.

    'To prevent double taxation, the Netherlands has concluded (tax) treaties with most countries. Not every tax treaty is the same, but in the field of pensions the general rule is that the Netherlands may tax Dutch government pensions and the member's country of residence may tax private pensions. For tax purposes, it is therefore important to divide service time into private service and public service, or in other words, into public-law time and private-law time.'

    They therefore do make a distinction between government pensions, such as ABP, and private pensions. I myself have transferred my pension that I accrued with a company to ABP. They suggest that I always remain liable for tax in the Netherlands on the part that has been accrued at ABP (fortunately little in my case). Resident or not.

  18. Dutch says up
    11 October 2012 at 12: 41

    To the best of my knowledge, Thais' pensions are NOT taxed in Thailand and therefore also not on foreigners' pensions.
    Very often, the Thai pension consists of one(1) amount that is paid at the end of employment.
    I would like to hear if it is not correct (then I should have a chat with my Thai friends).

  19. computing says up
    11 October 2012 at 14: 13

    I've been reading these articles and I'm getting a little tired of them.
    They are all abbreviations that I don't understand, even when I google I don't get a satisfactory answer.
    Maybe I can get an answer here what UAE and UAW means, because I can't figure it out

    computing

  20. gives says up
    11 October 2012 at 14: 22

    As I heard someone tell you, Thailand does not have a tax treaty with the Netherlands. You pay 5% tax on your state pension by completing a special document.
    you do not have to pay tax on your pension

  21. computing says up
    11 October 2012 at 14: 39

    Ok, but what does UAE and UAW mean?

    I seem to have to tell a story otherwise this program will not accept my question

  22. John D Kruse says up
    11 October 2012 at 14: 52

    Dear Robert,

    about a year ago (when I was still 64), I didn't know what to do either.
    All the time I lived in Spain I had based on the tax treaties,
    exemption in the Netherlands and tax paid in Spain. That was from the age of 65
    less interesting because pensions in Spain are lower, and
    I had to pay relatively much more than in the Netherlands. I'm paying now too
    no tax in Thailand, but have chosen to stay in the Netherlands again
    to pay. And that is very good.

    Last year I was at the tax office in Korat and because it was not good
    knew what to do with it, a call was made to Bangkok. I could then with one
    speak to Mrs. She spoke excellent English. She was indeed talking about it
    5% on AOW, but also on my company pension. All in all it would
    less favorable than what I now pay in the Netherlands. Due to the two monthly
    amounts, they do not deduct anything from the SVB.
    This Thai lady did not tell me about a special form
    for a discount or complete exemption.

    As for your total annual income, that would not be enough for getting
    of a retiree year visa. With the current exchange rate you should still be around 20.000
    to have. Same with me, now have to make sure that there is an amount of 100000
    Bath is on the couch, otherwise they might get in trouble at immigration.

  23. Robert says up
    11 October 2012 at 14: 56

    I have now received information from the Thai embassy.
    currently is one as several people have written
    800.000 Bath is required in a Thai bank account that is equivalent
    to € 20.000 euros. You can also get a visa type “O” and have it extended in Thailand.
    You are then registered in NL. The only solution is to find shelter
    in the Netherlands where you are officially registered. But staying outside the Netherlands for more than 8 months is considered emigration. However, if you want to be completely deregistered in the Netherlands, you must at least:
    Have €20.000 in pension on an annual basis. As of yet, it is not taxable in Thailand.
    What I get from the UAE is not taxed anyway. Dubai has no taxes.
    The big problem is health insurance. Furthermore, I officially live alone in Bangkok
    Can I not be cut by the Dutch government?

  24. David says up
    11 October 2012 at 16: 26

    Robert.

    I hope you've gotten wiser, I haven't.

    Gentlemen, what a mess you are making with your answers.
    A simple question but a lot of conflicting private answers.
    People think or have been told that it is of no use to you.
    The referral to the appropriate authority is the right way.
    That saves a lot of stories from the tea parties that are of no use to you.

  25. nitnoy says up
    11 October 2012 at 16: 37

    What I miss, in these stories. That you must have this on a Thai account for 3 months before extending your Non O visa. Demonstrate that the money comes from abroad and that you are using this money. So certainly can't leave it on an account that you don't use. This is my experience with Koh-Samui.Surrathani Immigration.

  26. William Doeser says up
    11 October 2012 at 16: 40

    In principle, no tax has to be paid on AOW in Thailand. Will be deducted from the benefit in the Netherlands. It is different with a pension benefit and other worldwide income, assuming that one actually lives in Thailand. People are considered to live in Thailand (for tax purposes) if they stay in Thailand for longer than, I thought, 180 days.
    William Doeser

  27. John Plantenga says up
    11 October 2012 at 16: 43

    My Thai girlfriend works for the government in BKK at a University. The salaries are not very high, but there are good secondary employment benefits. One of them, for example, is free health insurance and free treatment in the event of illness and check-ups in a hospital.
    She told me that when we were married I could piggyback on her free health insurance and hospital treatment.
    This hospital must be affiliated with the University, otherwise you pay a moderate personal contribution.
    Are there any experts who know about this?

    John Plantenga

  28. l.low size says up
    11 October 2012 at 18: 06

    As soon as you submit a request: Request exemption from deduction of wage tax/national insurance contributions
    fuses asks the Dutch tax authorities abroad:

    -Proof of deregistration from the municipal administration. (Ned.)

    -Show a copy of tax return Thailand.
    (so in this country you are taxable for the worldwide income)

    This will be sent to the Tax and Customs Administration together with the completed application forms
    Limburg/foreign office attn. department RT-LK-P

    PO Box 2865 6401 DJ Heerlen NL

    Sincerely,

    Lodewijk

    • Dutch says up
      12 October 2012 at 02: 33

      My 3 applications that have been processed so far have never involved sending a Thai tax return.
      You are asked to fill in the following question:
      “Are you (still) regarded as a (fiscal) resident in the country of residence?

      In mid-April 2016 I have to answer this question again with yes or no.
      (note the word 'fiscal', which is between brackets!)

  29. Cor Verkerk says up
    11 October 2012 at 18: 56

    Question about the 800.000 baht annual income or money in the Bank.

    When married to a Thai partner, this is 400.000?

    Also, if I own/buy a condo in my name, can I also use it for the guarantee?.

    • Khan Sugar says up
      11 October 2012 at 23: 31

      Cor,

      Indeed, 400K if you are married to a Thai.

      No, for the extension of the right of residence for 1 year, 800 or 400 K regulations, the purchase of a Condo has no evidential value and is irrelevant.

      Best regards,

      Khan Sugar

  30. Leo Bosch says up
    12 October 2012 at 03: 18

    Dear L. Lagemaat,

    Where do you get a copy of tax return in Thailand, if you don't have to pay tax here.
    Nonsense story.

    Leo Bosch.

  31. Colin Young says up
    12 October 2012 at 03: 36

    hello Robert Officially you have to pay tax in the country where you live more than 183 days a year, but nobody outside an EEC country does that. There is no rooster crowing here because you are not a resident, then only staying here with an annual visa or a retirement visa. With your income you are just a little short for a retirement visa, but if you supplement this with 200.000 baht in the bank, that is no problem. There are also people who emigrate who would like to earn some extra money and want to put that money in the bank for 1 day. For 800.000 baht they charge 25.000 and for small amounts 10 to 15.000 baht and then you can stay here all year round without having to leave the country.

  32. Leo Bosch says up
    12 October 2012 at 04: 30

    Sorry, Lagemaat, for my unjustified criticism.

    Your information is correct.
    Only that of that tax return makes no sense, if you don't have to pay taxes,

    Leo Bosch.

    • l.low size says up
      12 October 2012 at 07: 15

      The tax return is a formal matter.
      If you do not do this, there is a chance that you as a Dutch taxpayer
      is struck.
      Some people pay 7% income tax in Thailand.
      I am not aware of other rates.

      Sincerely,

      Lodewijk

  33. R. Vorster says up
    12 October 2012 at 08: 08

    The country of residence principle does not apply to Aow, but it does if it concerns a non-country treaty. See http://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen/uitkering-meenemen-naar-het-buitenland/uitkering-meenemen-naar-een-land-buiten-de-eu-eer

  34. Ronny says up
    12 October 2012 at 08: 18

    Can anyone make heads or tails of this? Not me in any case.

    Is there any conclusion to this?

    or is the conclusion just – go to the tax authorities in the Netherlands and ask there?

  35. support says up
    12 October 2012 at 12: 22

    Tjamuk,

    People may then think about the “country of residence principle”, but that automatically means 2 things:
    1. for countries that are cheaper in terms of “cost of living” than the Netherlands, a discount on AOW will be applied and
    2. For countries that are more expensive in terms of “cost of living” than the Netherlands, an extra amount will have to be paid (I am thinking of countries such as the US, Japan, Honkong, etc.).

    And I still have to see what the ultimate saving is of such an operation.

    Moreover, I think that there are quite a few legal snags to that idea. After all, people have saved to obtain a final amount per month. And then it is not very defensible to make changes to this purely on the basis of how much money an AOW pensioner ultimately spends per month.
    Will they also cut those in the Netherlands who may still have some of their AOW left over each month? Or possibly eating out a little too often or eating a pastry too often?

    For legal and practical reasons, such a plan hardly seems feasible to me. And also objectionable

  36. support says up
    12 October 2012 at 12: 50

    What confusing stories! It concerns me about 3 things viz
    1. tax liability in the Netherlands and/or Thailand
    2. obtaining/extending a 1-year visa
    3. health insurance

    ad 1.
    if you deregister from the Netherlands and settle in Thailand, your AOW and self-accrued supplementary pension are exempt from tax etc. in the Netherlands. And Thailand applies a 0% rate under a treaty with the Netherlands.

    ad 2.
    to obtain a 1 year visa (O) it is necessary that you pay an amount of TBH 3 during 800.000 months prior to the start date (for marriage with a Thai TBH 400.000). whether you really live together!) on the couch. It is irrelevant where this money comes from and whether you actually live off it. So you can leave it as long as you want
    You can therefore use this amount every year for your visa extension. That TBH 800.000 may also be made up of
    an amount at the bank together with your annual pension to be received (e.g. TBH 300.000 as a deposit at the bank and TBH 500.000 in pension or other income from outside Thailand)

    ad 3.
    arranging health insurance in Thailand is again a consequence of deregistering from the Netherlands and therefore also from the Dutch health insurance. It is hard to say which insurance is the best. Depends on personal circumstances and preferences. This has been discussed several times on Thailandblog.

  37. Carabao says up
    12 October 2012 at 16: 59

    In principle, tax is levied by the country that pays out. I've looked in the AOW tables, but I don't come across what you mentioned. Is that gross or net?

    An acquaintance of mine who lives with a Thai in Korat receives a surcharge for her from the SVB. Do you know that? Or do you have?

    Look up http://www.svb.nl/int/nl/aow/hoogte_aow/bedragen/index.jsp

  38. Leo Bosch says up
    13 October 2012 at 02: 35

    @Carabao,

    Your acquaintance will probably receive this allowance under the ANW insurance. (Survivors' Act, formerly the widow's and orphan's interest)
    In NL. obliged ; if you have been deregistered, you can take out voluntary insurance for this, provided you do so within 1 year after deregistration.

    If you have reached the state pension age, and your partner has not yet, you are entitled to this allowance, provided your partner meets certain age and income requirements, or has a duty of care for a child.

    After all, if you live together you receive a benefit for cohabitants, which is significantly lower than for a single person, hence the allowance.

    Leo Bosch.

  39. richard walter says up
    14 October 2012 at 08: 17

    Moderator: too many typos, unreadable.

  40. Timo says up
    4 April 2013 at 13: 27

    The Netherlands has a tax treaty with Thailand
    Thailand is a country that, in addition to a pleasant living and living environment, is also tax-friendly. A tax treaty has also been concluded with the Netherlands.

    If you stay in Thailand for at least 181 days a year, you can choose to complete the tax obligation in Thailand. People in Thailand do not pay any tax on the AOW and pension because this money was earned abroad.

    You can read more information about emigrating to Thailand and the tax consequences in 'The tax authorities after departure to Thailand'.
    check..: http://www.thailandtotaal.nl/

  41. J. Jordan. says up
    4 April 2013 at 17: 20

    Tino, Someone who does not work in Thailand does not pay tax. So neither does retired Thai. It therefore has nothing to do with the fact that the money was obtained in the Netherlands.
    It was therefore not difficult for those Thais to conclude such a treaty. Money only not for retired civil servants. They remain liable to tax in the Netherlands.
    J. Jordan.

  42. ruud says up
    5 July 2013 on 00: 47

    Taxation is also a problem for me that I have not yet resolved in my case it concerns an exemption for an annuity policy that will be paid out in a few years
    the application for exemption states:

    Please note: your request will not be processed if the details of the tax residence are not enclosed
    proof of tax residency is evidenced by, for example:
    * a statement from the tax authorities that you are regarded as a tax resident
    *or a recent copy of a tax return or assessment notice
    a registration with the municipality or consulate does NOT show that you are a TAX RESIDENCY.

    I then inquired with the Thai tax authorities for a registration with the tax authorities
    however, they do not want to register me there, because I have no income in Thailand of at least 30.000,00 baht.


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