Can I ever emigrate to Thailand again?
Lately I've been preoccupied with the thought of ever going to Thailand to emigrate.
All this prompted by:
- the austerity drive here in the Netherlands;
- the atmosphere in politics and country;
- the costs that are spiraling out of control here;
- the many rules, which make it increasingly difficult to get things done;
- the fast changing climate (wet and cold) 🙂
Actually just a little dissatisfaction and nothing more than that. I suffer from a period of whining and whining about everything that is not good. A real Dutchman, I would almost say.
But will we still be able to move to Thailand? If you really think about it, that's just the question.
Already in Thailand?
Suppose you are now 50 years old and you are now going to Thailand. What are the consequences for your old age? Your state pension accrual will stop if you cut all ties, which will therefore cost you just under 67% of your state pension when you turn 45. Namely 2% accrual (15 x 2) every year plus 2% per year for the last 6,5 years. You will therefore go back to 55% of the AOW at your retirement age. If you also live together, you will receive even less because the partner allowance has been abolished as of 2015. It seems to me to be quite a loss.
What about your pension accrual? In the years that you are away from here, you will therefore have to build up your pension yourself in one way or another. Working in Thailand is not possible, unless you want to work in education or are a journalist. For the rest, work is not allowed. You can of course also maintain a postal address in the Netherlands for a small fee. The latter option also costs you your health insurance premium every month and you pay tax here. But this means that you maintain your state pension accrual. Or you start your own business in Thailand in the name of someone else. We have already read and heard enough of those stories about what can go wrong with it, but also well.
Going to Thailand soon?
Suppose you are now 50 years old and you go to Thailand on your retirement date (67 years old), then there is a possibility that you will also leave for Thailand with half the state pension (assuming that everything in Thailand remains the same). The Dutch government is in fact thinking hard about paying out the AOW to the level of the standard of living of the country where you live, with the standard of living of the Netherlands itself as a maximum. There is a good chance that this measure will actually be introduced within the next 17 years that you have to retire as a fifty-year-old. But this also means that if you were to leave for Thailand now and that rule is introduced, you would only receive half of the remaining 55% state pension (without a partner allowance). So even in this case it is better to keep a postal address and pay your healthcare premium and taxes here.
Thailand is also not standing still
Development in Thailand is not standing still either. Prices will probably rise over the next 17 years and the Thai government may also change the rules for a visa as a result of increasing prosperity. You will probably have to bring even more money and have an even higher basic income per month to live there.
If Thailand catches up, there is a good chance that the price differences with the Netherlands will have become very small. The latter of course works in favor of your maximum state pension, which you can then take with you. That also means that you can do just as little with it as in the Netherlands.
It is of course all a matter of time, but it is very plausible that something like this will actually happen. They are of course not crazy there and here. I think you can only leave soon if you have a big bag of money.
In a way I'm jealous of all those expats who now live there comfortably and who manage to do it anyway. They left at the right time and I wish them well. For the time being I will just keep dreaming, grumbling like a real Dutchman and hoping that I have overlooked something that will make my emigration plans look sunny again
There is always a right time!
And there is more to Thailand.
Chang Noi
For all future emigrants: if you see more ghosts on the road than possibilities, don't do it! A successful emigration often has more to do with mentality and personal flexibility than with external factors.
Ghosts on the road or a realistic view of a future situation?? I think the latter.
@Matthieu – If you take as a starting point that the NL government will have to be responsible for your income, it is a very realistic story indeed.
There is also a good chance that Dutch people who are wealthy will no longer receive state pension in the future. People are already voting for that idea. Being wealthy is, of course, flexible.
Can they save a lot on the state pension? That will have to be because the old age pension will also become unaffordable due to the aging population, just like our healthcare system.
Our little gold mine, the natural gas bubble, is almost exhausted. The prosperity we have known will not return in my opinion.
@Ghostwriter: In a way I'm jealous of all those expats who live there now and who manage to do it anyway.
I also hear other stories, from expats who languish there. Who do not have health insurance and do not go to the hospital if they have complaints, in order to save money.
It's really not always rose scent and moonshine in Thailand. It is a beautiful country if you have a lot of money to spend. If not, NL is not a bad alternative.
I think that, apart from the money issue, it is also important that you have something to do every day. It is just as important in Thailand to lead a meaningful life as it is in the Netherlands.
I work myself, but retired people would do well to have a hobby or - even better - to do voluntary work. Also good for social contacts.
But if you have no reason to get up early every day, it quickly becomes a monotonous affair.
Recently had a job interview with a dynamic 50'er for a commercial position. Had been divorced for some time, successful company in London, and wanted to give his life a different twist - also with regard to the malaise in Europe. Well acquainted with Thailand from holidays, but very realistic about living and working here. Hard worker, and also realistic in salary expectations. Very positive attitude and full of initiatives. Came to Thailand/Asia to network, and had a packed agenda of appointments with companies here in BKK I saw. If everything goes well internally here, I'll take it. If not, he'll make it here anyway, I'm sure! Similar situation, but a somewhat more enterprising approach than above.
And don't forget this dynamic sixties!
Hans has to laugh when I read some things. I am Belgian and have had 35 years of stressful work in the fire brigade. Yes, 900 and 100, that's different from just putting out fires. After 35 years as a paramedic, I am so happy that I no longer have anything to do in Thailand? yes, comp and walking and TV and yes, BVN I think the news from your former country is important? belgistan now hahaha yes hans life in thailand is like king. But I advise people to work until you are 58 before you start dreaming.
Ghostwriter, partner allowance will not be abolished, but adjusted.
It has been abolished for everyone who retires after 2015 !!!
http://www.pensioenkijker.nl/home/aow-anw/afschaffing-partnertoeslag-aow
Partner allowance will not be abolished, but adjusted; for those born before 1950, everything will remain the same. For those born after 1949, the partner allowance is adjusted to the age of the partner. In other words, the partner will only receive his state pension when he has also reached the age of 65. So, if one of the tweens is younger than 65 [say 60 years], he must wait 5 years before he also receives state pension.
Dear King Frans.
Pfff….The partner allowance will be abolished after 2015. This piece is about someone who has to continue working until 2027 and only then retires. Then there is no more partner allowance.
please read below at the link of the SVB.
Best regards,
ghostwriter.
forgot a link.
http://www.svb.nl/int/nl/aow/hoogte_aow/toeslag/toeslag_vervalt_2015/
why so hard when it can be easy.
commute 2 or 3 months thailand and back to homeland.
you stay in order with everything, the batteries are charged again.
as someone said, there are also people who are lonely there and can't even afford a hospital in thailand etc..
the golden mean.
eg 3 months Thailand 3 months homeland.
a friend of mine has done that for years and feels very happy with it
is also not bound anywhere, and even travels to the philippines once in a while.
I am leaving Thailand on January 10, 2012 for 5 weeks and will try to extend that to 2 months in the future. Back in Belgium, save some money and leave again…
save on one side and build up some security and enjoy on the other side
Another option is to ensure that you have rental income to replace your pension. I am 40 years old and now own 3 modest properties. 2 of these are rented. If I had to leave for Thailand, I could rent out all 3. By the time I reach retirement age, these will have been paid off (largely by the tenants) and I am no longer dependent on my pension. I don't even count on it anymore. In principle, everyone should try to do this. Even if you stay here, it is a nice addition to your (possible) pension. And this is certainly possible. I only have an average income, but the loans are paid off by the tenants. From the moment my 2nd property was rented out, I started looking for a 3rd modest property (= risk spreading rental income). Then you can get credit from the bank. You just have to make sure you can bridge the gap if the tenants don't pay. I'm leaving for Thailand soon and won't suffer from “holiday stress”. As long as the rents come in, I'm not worried. Otherwise I would have to work very hard for those funds.
Of course you can, even a good plan. But if, like me, you can only retire in 2025 and if you have to believe all the predictions, then from 2020 we will have an increasing vacancy rate in the housing market because fewer people will be added and more people will lose weight. In other words, house prices will fall and rents? Then try to get it rented out if there is enough empty and for sale. You can already see it in the south of the Netherlands, in particular in the Heerlen region, this is already underway.
In line with this….. yesterday in the news the housing bubble.
http://www.depers.nl/economie/594457/Hoe-ga-je-om-met-de-huizencrash.html
Today in the news about the mortgage provision.
http://www.depers.nl/economie/594457/Hoe-ga-je-om-met-de-huizencrash.html
My properties are in Belgium. Fortunately, the market here is something else. In the Netherlands, a similar house is sometimes priced twice as expensive. That is why there is a much larger rental market in the Netherlands and many Dutch people come to buy in Belgium in the border region.
If you look at the intrinsic value (building materials) of a home, homes in Belgium are of course also overpriced. However, you should try to keep enough reserves that you never have to sell your property. Then you will not be bothered by price drops in the short term. And in the long run, I think (hope) that prices will remain stable.
Thank you for sharing these articles. Some caution is indeed warranted.
You really have to be thoughtful. You have to buy strategic real estate. Not something of which there are 100s of similar buildings. That takes time and effort. Especially if you want to pay the right price. That's what most people can't afford. I was able to muster that time and effort because it is my only possibility to (maybe) realize my dream.
Risk spreading is also possible here. The 3 acquisitions were purchased at different locations and all 3 have a different destination: a home, a commercial building and a studio on the coast.
I think you can live abroad and continue to pay your AOW premium in the Netherlands, so that you will receive your AOW later, so there is no discount. A different amount applies for each country. Just inform the AOW authority.
that is the maximum premium, do the math, that is too much because this AOW system does not and few payers take in tow of your money
@Maria - that's right, you can. Just seems like the worst 'investment' you can think of, especially if you're younger. Because you just have to wait and see whether the AOW will still be there in 25 years. Nice to invest that premium privately, Asia mix fund or something with spread risk, seems a lot smarter!
I am 57 years old and I will stop working on January 1, 2012 and mainly want to live in Thailand. Through my pension fund PFZW I have the opportunity to receive 70% of my current salary.
In January I want to go for 3 months, then 1 month to the Netherlands and then for 6 months and in 2013 I want to see that I go back to the Netherlands once a year. For example, I will continue to keep my accrual of the state pension and my health insurance for the time being. I have also based my planning on as negative a situation as possible because I will no longer accrue state pension, so that it cannot be disappointing later on. As far as health costs are concerned, there are also possibilities in Thailand to contact AA insurance Hua Hin. I can't wait for the time to come, first I'm going to take a look and discuss things in Thailand in October, because my girlfriend is a cook and she thinks this is a nice job and I have to take that into account. Nowadays they start working at a late age, but I've done it for 1 years and that's enough for me.
Just do it Leo, I'm also 57 and have been regularly in Thailand for 3 years. I am currently there for 2 years as I have early retirement. Once you have settled in, much cheaper than in Europe, max 1500 electricity and 400 water and then that is calculated. In Belgium they are getting so expensive to still live there. If you app. If you rent for a year, you pay 2500 bath in Pattaya, but you can find something like that in Europe nowadays hahaha
I of course meant 10.000 baht if you rent for a year yes in Thailand you can live very cheaply and especially if you appreciate their food in Isaan you pay 20 fr outside the city and you have eaten hahaha and in the city 30 baht definitely worth considering to emigrate to Thailand
Kojk to only play this on the state pension is not realistic. Most people really do have a different and larger pension that can be made tax-free and considerable savings. Fictionally staying in the Netherlands means becoming fully taxable on worldly income, no one does that either. The rule is first make sure you're in the right place and then move. Only on a reduced state pension, you must be crazy!!!
Yes Ghostwriter, you are overlooking one thing. i.e. your lucky!!!!
They're just musings that don't get in the way of my happiness at all.
I think the calculation is not quite right. In my opinion, it is not correct that the last 2 years before retirement cost 13% pension accrual. As far as I understand, the stipulation is that you can receive state pension from the age of 65. Only then you will only receive (until the end) 87% instead of 100% AOW. And that's something different. So if you don't let your pension start until you turn 67, the last 2 years will not cost you 13% accrual, but 4%. Of course not nice, but a little better.......
Hello Steve,
Unfortunately, those calculations are correct. As previously in another piece, I have included references to the legislative changes and their effect. Google it and you will find the bills.
If you leave the Netherlands at the age of 50, this will cost you 65% aow accrual per year until you are 2. You then have to 2027 because from 2020 and 2025 there will be 1 more year. You may retire in 2025, but then you hand in the total price compensation that you will accrue from 2015 (if you stay in the Netherlands). And that is exactly 6.5% per year. Please read the bill. If you retire at the age of 67, you will not lose anything and you will simply receive a 100% state pension (which has therefore already increased from 2015 to 2025 with an additional 13% correction for inflation).
They have done this so that people in the heavy professions can stop at the age of 65. But then we will lose that extra bonus of 13%.
http://www.wegwijs.nl/artikel/2011/06/het-pensioenakkoord-is-getekend,-nu-de-vrede-nog
You can pay AOW premiums on a voluntary basis for ten years. If you have no income from work, you pay the minimum amount. That is less than 500 euros per year. I myself left for Thailand at the age of 56 and voluntarily pay the state pension premium. So on my 65th birthday just 100% old age pension.
Going to live in Thailand that is my solid plan,
owns quite a bit (too much) household and also a lot of other stuff
(also too much)
loading a container full is an option, trying to sell here is hardly an option.
Who cares about useful stuff anymore?
In addition, I think very welcome in Thailand. (Not to save money!)
the one I choose can have it. keep most of it for my house, of course.
this beright is from canada where i still live.
please answer, what about the electrical household items?
110-120 in my country Thailand 220 I know the hz. is 50 -and 60 someone has one
good answer and advice ?
also a question about importation of a personal nature in Thailand (costs or none)
carriers for containers are also delivered to the destination?
btw, thanks for good advice.
Joe van der Zande.
In Thailand everything is 50hz and 220v.
Hi Jo, noticed you were trying to call me from canada, try your mobile next time, can I text.003166594261
I don't know what it costs to deliver your stuff in a container, but for these costs you can almost furnish a house in Thailand, in addition, your interior will be different in nature. in thailand you live much more outdoors.
You can sometimes switch electrical appliances from 110 volts to 220 volts, at least in the past, you just have to open the stereo and see if there are rotary switches in it, fear that it will no longer be the case these days.
450 euros from Ansterdam. Thai customs will pull you out. If possible, don't bring anything. You buy a complete house here for 100k.
where 450 euros? i called several forwarders and asked me between 1200 and 2000 ? so where's the golden tip?
I had - already 10 years ago - a lot of stuff from the Netherlands to Thailand. No furniture, electrical appliances and such, but mainly books, kitchen utensils, crockery, paintings, a nice table lamp, clothes (which I have never used here), etc.
It will hardly be possible to fill an entire container, but at the time it was packed as much as possible in moving boxes and then packed seaworthy in a wooden box. Everything was excellently organized by a specialist in this field, Forwarding Agent Steeman in Alkmaar. You can also request a current price there.
The Thai customs are indeed trying to earn “gold” from it. You must provide a complete inventory list with all unit prices. I received an assessment with an astronomically high amount. In good consultation with the customs clearance agent here, I adjusted the list downwards, in addition, some “hand money” was added and the assessment was reduced by 80%.
For the sake of embellishment, perhaps, it is not the customs that makes money from it, but the customs agent who makes the declaration on behalf of your noble.
The point is that this customs agent will charge a percentage of the import duties to be paid, so it will try with all its might to increase the declared value.
In the past I shipped my complete household goods to Thailand by container.
The Thai customs agent made it so that I had to pay 150,000 baht.
Fortunately, I have a Brother in Law who could speak to the head of customs, who in turn personally had the customs agent do his homework, so I had to pay 10,000 baht in full officially as import duties.
The customs agent then tried to extort money from me, which did not work because I now had all the paperwork in my hands.
Customs, often, blindly follows the customs agent's declaration.
The inventory and packing list must be included upon departure from the Netherlands, in which the age of the items mainly determines the value
You can't draw an arrow on it. I sometimes order something via the internet, and sometimes I pay 10%, then 30% again, then nothing (same category of goods, same supplier). Have also shipped furniture from Singapore to here, just via a truck with DHL, 15 boxes full, books, CDs, kitchenware, clothes - quoted ridiculously low value. Had to specify everything down to the unit before it was released here, I just specified 'kitchen utensils' at first - just did a bit of guessing, what can they do if suddenly it's 6 forks instead of 4? Also knew someone who knew someone, and eventually after paying 2,500 baht duty, the whole mess was nicely delivered to your home.
@Gringo - pull up 'level', not an arrow, right? 😉
Very good Robert! Peil is the right word in this case, but am I also being bombarded linguistically?
I have also thought about emigrating to Thailand before, but I came back after a stay of 2½ years. The image most people have of Thailand is often based on holidays and romanticized by being in love. One then does not think from the upper room, but from a place where the mind absolutely does not work. Thailand is a wonderful country if you have a good pension or work for a foreign company. In short, your income in Western currency will be paid out.
I therefore agree with Ghostwriter, if you are not yet retired and still have to work for your money for years, then it is not that easy to emigrate there. After all, not everyone has the capabilities or is trained to work there as a journalist, teacher or as a seconded worker. Also, not everyone has sufficient capacities and money to start a business there. In my opinion, this has nothing to do with seeing more ghosts than possibilities, but with common sense and a sense of reality.
You emigrate out of a certain dissatisfaction and out of the conviction that you will have a better life there. However, a large part of the younger farangs living there have fled their homeland, because they had little or no right to exist here and therefore had nothing to lose. Well, then the choice to pack your bags is of course not that difficult. However, when you have a reasonably good life here, you think 10 times to emigrate to another country, and certainly to a country with a completely different culture and customs, of which most farangs do not even speak the language.
Anyone who has such an idea should try it and find out for themselves whether that choice was the right one. Every country has its drawbacks and they can also do something about it in Thai. It is certainly not easy for farang, even if they do have money.
I also left the Netherlands for various reasons, including that I no longer saw it and hoped for a better life elsewhere. I chose Thailand at the time for economic reasons plus they are almost all Buddhist.
If I had to do it over again, I would go to the Philippines.
@Fred Schoolderman - Most of the expats I know in Thailand who have been here for a long time and are successful (and you can define that in different ways) certainly don't fit your description of emigrating to Thailand because they have 'nothing left to lose' (By the way, you have a lot of those people here, that's right - I don't want to scare anyone, but if you're interested, I can name a seaside resort where these people often hang out).
The foreigners I know here are really not ING/Philips/KLM type expats. Call them the new generation of expats, they often have their own business here (no, not a beer bar) or work for a Thai company, often as a follow-up to a successful (international) career in more developed countries. But as Khun Peter also pointed out: it's really not all roses and moonshine. It's also just hard work here - generally a lot harder than in NL, by the way. And don't complain about shorts to the office in warm weather either 😉
Dear Hans, there is indeed a 'new generation' of expats, or international workers might be a better term. 'New', in the sense that they work under considerably different circumstances and conditions than the traditional expat. Often internationally trained with international work experience, internationally deployable, are not always 'sent out' from the home country, but often go looking for them themselves. The expats who are now retired were on slightly different packages than the 'new generation' expats I'm talking about.
Incidentally, the term 'expat' is sometimes interpreted differently; some apply it to everyone who lives and works abroad, others only apply it to those posted by their company. The fact is that the expat luxury of the 60s and 70s and perhaps the 80s has now largely disappeared, with exceptions.
If I have any applicants in the future I will enlist your help in separating the wheat from the chaff. In the past, did you really get a job just by showing a full agenda? Gosh, maybe everything was really much better back then!
@Hans – piece about my so-called new expats 😉
http://www.rnw.nl/nederlands/article/nieuwe-expats-voldoening-weegt-zwaarder-dan-salaris
@Robert: I read the piece, good information, but there is also something to criticize, such as 80% of that millennial generation want to go abroad. How many (ten) thousands are there? What do you think of the article yourself, because if there are more comments on it, you are often inclined to say: Yes, but I didn't say that, it's in that article.
I certainly agree with you that younger people have more opportunities abroad than we used to. I have asked you before, how many of those people do you know in Bangkok. Five, ten, a hundred, or even more? Is there a bar, or rather a club, where I could possibly admire a specimen of this species?
By the way, the article is not about Thailand and I wonder what added value such young people would have compared to Thais who would then receive a work permit.
Incidentally, I note that we often have a discussion, I know your predilection for pissing people off in Pattaya, but I also think that you are quite a suitable guy to drink a beer with, in a beer bar in Pattaya Naturally!
I think the article is correct. However, it is mainly about broadcasting, many people I know have come to Asia / Thailand on their own, or have started their own business after a former broadcast. That is a fairly limited group of course, but it is the group that I regularly have to deal with. Tourism is a major employer for this group of course, think of hotel staff and tour operators, but I also know farangs in the leather trade, beauty products, media, website companies, etc. etc. You can't think of it that crazy. All entrepreneurial spirits, of course. And indeed, today's Western young people are more international, have more opportunities and possibilities. The added value that farangs have here is mainly good education, knowledge and skills. That's why they get paid more than Thais.
I just wanted to counteract Fred and Ghostwriter's blacking. Pattaya is quite nice once a year, and if I come by again I will let you know for sure! Let's have a beer!
@robert,
The added value of foreigners in Thailand is bound by very strict rules, right? The common thread that runs through these rules is that the foreigner has expertise in a certain field, for which you cannot find a Thai. Otherwise, no work permit will be issued. D-tech has had a Norwegian CEO for a number of years, but that is a level that exceeds the average professional group.
It is of course different when it comes to starting your own business, as long as you hire four Thai employees for every foreigner.
However, I don't know of any examples of people who were not sent out and found work on their own with a Thai company and were paid well for it, outside of English-language journalism of course. Although the BP pays peanuts to its English-language editors. Investigative journalists like Erika Frey also face the risk of being thrown in jail on charges of defamation and libel…
@Cor - strict rules, though. Yet there are many farangs with good jobs here, usually with a higher education. Often for foreign companies, but also really for Thai companies. Many commercial and technical functions. Recently met a Swede who worked as a programmer for Kasikorn bank. If they really want you, they can usually prove that a Thai cannot do that job, I believe. People also often switch once they are here. So originally aired, then looking here myself. Models, another category you may encounter on a regular basis. Bangkok is full of young Western models. But that's no longer an option for most on this blog 😉 Calm down gentlemen, including the undersigned, including the undersigned!
Dear Robert,
What do you mean looking black? If you intend to emigrate, you want to make progress, right? I think it would be appropriate to weigh up the pros and cons. I am an entrepreneur and an opportunist through and through and I make risky decisions almost every day, albeit calculatedly and not like a headless chicken. Furthermore, it is not always about material things, but there are, for example, children involved or other reasons of an emotional nature.
The category you are talking about are the younger, highly educated farangs (after 1980), who probably just didn't make it in their home country and have neither chicken nor chicks here. Guests who have discovered for themselves that they will always play second fiddle in their home country, otherwise they would have stayed. What do those types of people have to lose? People who are a bit older, like Ghostwriter and myself, and who also have to work for money, probably have that and then the choice becomes more difficult.
I also know plenty of farangs who didn't get sent out, but went there on spec and started their own website business, which you call people with an entrepreneurial spirit? In my eyes they are a bunch of fortune seekers who chase their cock and pretend to be more successful than they really are, but often don't deserve the salt in the porridge.
Dear Fred – from your comments I gather that you can only imagine that people emigrate to Thailand because they either have nothing to lose or follow their genitals. That is a limited and negative view of things. In addition to many people who indeed fall into that category, there are plenty of people here with a 'normal' life, who work, are married to a farang or Thai, and have bought an apartment here. And they're not all men either. For example, a Polish freelancer I know from BKK had a very good job in London, but gave it up after three years because she missed Thailand so much. Has now started a business in graphic design. For example, a Filipino friend of mine has been working in New York for about four years now, and is also toying with the idea of returning to Bangkok. Also know some Australian ladies who are successful in the tourism sector, work for Thai hotels. But maybe – also looking at Gringo's response 'where can I see a specimen of this species' – that you just don't come across people like this if you don't work here.
Another article about 'new expats' that I saw today
http://business.blogs.cnn.com/2011/09/19/expat-assignment-cry-baby-international-schools/?hpt=hp_mid
Hi Fred,
You have understood me exactly and I have nothing more to add. Thank you for your response.
MVG
GhostWriter.
@ Robert: oh, oh, how lucky that there are also many new generation of Dutch expats in BKK, who are successful just like you, but have to work hard - even harder than in the Netherlands. How many of this breed do you know, Robert? The Netherlands can move forward with that, right?
Well, I don't know them and - I say growling from the top of my cupboard - I don't want to know those often boring jerks who visit so-called trendy bars after a dull day at the office. As a retiree in Pattaya, give me that bunch “that has nothing left to lose.” They wouldn't hurt a fly here and they are often pleasant people.
I completely agree with Fred when he says that young people in general should not come to Thailand for a good life and successful business.
Now seriously: according to all reports, approximately 10.000 Dutch people live in Thailand. That must be a very mixed group, a nice subject as a graduation project for a student in Sociology/Anthropology. For example, if the Embassy would grant me permission to research and catalog the details of the registered NLers, I could do it too. Because I don't have to work (hard) anymore. It is certain that this would yield surprising information for everyone – including you Robert.
I largely agree with Gringo, because why do we have to piss each other off and put them in boxes? I think that's petty and let's appreciate each other more on character, and personal individual. But more importantly, respect each other, because it would be very boring if we were all equal. Don't think so negatively but positively, because that lives so much more pleasantly on this planet. Getting rich here is a wrong assumption, because I've seen quite a few expats return home with empty pockets. Falling in love is lost, and especially putting everything on a Thai name is asking for trouble. Nevertheless, I know a dozen friends who have become very wealthy in real estate, mainly by buying and selling land. This remains by far the safest and most interesting investment in the medium and long term. But I also know enough compatriots who earn a good living and who are satisfied, because they have no problems with taxes, accountants, employment agencies, etc. Greedy people are never satisfied and happy. Not here in the last piece of paradise on earth, where I lack nothing. In the end, it's all about the pluses, and I find them here more than in the many other countries where I have lived and stayed. That Thailand with that weak euro is no longer cheap I admit, but still eats well for very little. Keep on smiling and, seize the day and seize the life, because you're only dead for a while and so long.
Colin, Gringo and Hans – with all due respect, I think we can attribute the difference in interpretation of whether or not you can be successful as a foreigner in Thailand (and that can be done in many ways, not just financially) to the people we see every day see a lot around us. Every day I see how working (relatively) young people here are building a future with pleasure and success, and it may be a bit different for you there. The stories of Colin and the people he meets speak for themselves. The truth will therefore lie in the middle, let's keep it that way and close the discussion with that.
@Hans – I can answer your question simply: because certain residents have a problem with it if a certain seaside resort is mentioned in a negative context.