Health costs and elections
Many Dutch people, who have decided - for whatever reason - to Thailand to live, have encountered a problem in arranging health insurance.
The subject has been discussed regularly on this blog and although there are reasonable options to insure yourself here in Thailand, it would have been better if the Dutch living here could simply - just like the Dutch in the Netherlands or in the so-called treaty countries - use the rights regulated in the Dutch Health Insurance Act.
However, Thailand is not a treaty country and Dutch people who live here and are deregistered in the Netherlands must arrange their own health insurance. That is possible, but is often accompanied by exclusions and high costs, which many people have quite a bit of trouble with.
Because more and more Dutch people choose Thailand as a country of residence, I decided to try to draw attention to this problem through the official channels and sent the following e-mail to the Board of Health Insurers:
“More and more pensioners and other Dutch people decide to settle in Thailand. The number is estimated at about 4000 now.
A problem for many is health insurance, because the Dutch insurance expires. Your Board monitors the care for Dutch nationals in the Netherlands and a number of treaty countries, but once someone settles outside, it is simply over. The principle of solidarity you praised will then no longer be applied.
I don't have a problem myself, because I've been insured all my life with Univé (and predecessors), where I was able to take out a so-called foreign policy after settling in Thailand.
Many others cannot do that and have to take out expensive, incomplete insurance here locally with the many exclusions that come with it. If all those people were to return to the Netherlands, they would simply receive care like any other Dutch person.
I have sometimes approached Univé about “the market” in Thailand, but people are not interested due to the small number of Dutch people.
Wouldn't it be a nice idea of solidarity if your Board is committed to solving a growing problem?
Medical care here in Thailand is of a high standard and is also considerably cheaper than in the Netherlands.
I hope for a positive answer, which I will publish on Thailandblog.nl. On this blog, this issue comes up regularly with very, very questions and cries of despair.”
After a few days I received an answer from CVZ, who referred me to the Ministry of Health, Welfare and Sport. Well, no sooner said than done.
The answer from the Ministry took a little longer, but it came:
"Dear sir,
First of all my apologies for the late response to your email. Unfortunately we cannot help you. People who are going to live in Thailand must take care of their own health insurance. There are no plans from the Dutch government to change this.
We are sorry that we cannot inform you otherwise.
Yours faithfully,
Indra Ramkhelawan
Public information officer
Directorate of Communication
Ministry of Health, wellbeing and sports"
So, that's plain language, isn't it? For a moment I considered writing back that if there are no plans, they can still be made, because we are talking about a large group of compatriots. In my E-mail I have kept it modest with 4000, but usually we use the fact that about 10.000 Dutch people live in Thailand. I gave up anyway.
In the elections in September there were a total of 332 Dutch people in Thailand who took the trouble to vote, remember? Yes, the Dutch government must take care of us Dutch people in Thailand, but do you really think that there is only one Member of Parliament who will dedicate himself to that handful of compatriots, for example to ask questions about this issue in the House of Representatives? No, and they get the biggest right in the world from me.
Moderator: Suggestive comments like this are not allowed.
Clear message Gringo. If Dutch people abroad do not wish to exercise their right to vote, they cannot expect politicians to make an effort for this group.
A missed opportunity…
Peter, the politicians should commit themselves to ALL Dutch people, wherever in the world, that is their obligatory duty. Voting behavior has nothing to do with this. You have the right to vote in the Netherlands, but not to vote.
In recent elections, turnout was around 70%; Should The Hague then stop worrying about the 30% of voters mainly living in the Netherlands who did not vote?! You would just be an elderly person who has difficulty walking, to whom little attention is paid and who has therefore forfeited his/her right to vote.
In addition, it is made rather easy for you to cast a vote from abroad. Simply casting a vote via the internet is – despite the available technology – still not possible.
Unfortunately, we have been forced to conclude for years that there is a political arbitrariness in The Hague, which only revolves around winning (voice) souls. Look how easily all kinds of laws of the Rutte Cabinet are now being turned around again. That is called populism and unfortunately we find that more and more in Dutch society. I also agree with such a comment from you and Gringo, that politicians should not worry about those who have not exercised their right to vote. After all, one does not know why someone has not exercised their right to vote, there may be very legitimate reasons for this.
That populism is precisely the reason why politicians in The Hague are not concerned about the ups and downs of those few Dutch people in Thailand or anywhere else in the world. Think about the discussion about dual nationality. Or do you really think that if all Dutch people living in Thailand had cast their vote, the reaction would have been different?
@Bacchus: I completely agree with the first sentence of your comment, but it is very naive to believe that that actually happens. That does not happen in the Netherlands, nor in any other country.
Politics in The Hague makes decisions in the interests of the Netherlands and all parties, each representing a portion of all Dutch people, try to implement their wishes as much as possible. Whatever decision is made, it is never in the interest of ALL Dutch people, it can simply be at the expense of the interests of certain groups of Dutch people.
No one in the Netherlands is looked down upon or finds it a disadvantage of the fact that he/she has not voted, so it is a bit silly to drag an elderly person who has difficulty walking.
You use the word populism in a negative sense. Look again at the meaning of the word and the many explanations that exist about it. Populism can also work very well in a positive sense.
If 10.000 Dutch people live in Thailand and just over 300 people participate in the elections, can you give me other legitimate reasons than laziness, disinterest for those 9700 other Dutch people?
And then your last comment: if all Dutch people in Thailand had voted, the answer from the Ministry might have been the same, but you could have drawn attention to the problem through parliamentary questions, for example. But yes, that may also be naive thinking.
Thank you for this response. That has grabbed my heart. I've also been irked by the easy way Gringo, confirmed by Kuhn Peter, smacks me and perhaps many who don't respond. There must be something to vote for. If one of the party programs had included something about medical costs for Dutch people living outside Europe, there would have been many more voters from abroad.
Elsewhere in the world, people give their lives for democracy and the right to vote. For that reason alone it is, in my opinion, a moral obligation to vote.
People, people, let's not pretend that things would be different if all Dutch people in Thailand had voted. I don't take sides with the voters or the non-voters, I just don't think it matters when it comes to health insurance.
ONVZ has a world policy, I have had it for years and I am very satisfied with it.
Appreciated effort, but our political system is clearly in favor of all those immigrants in NL, who even get everything for free too. So emigrants better not to vote for those silly bureaucrats like political parties, power disrupters and grabbers mentality.
Now back to the core, yes some especially old soldiers can have their policy transferred at the university abroad when they emigrate, I have also arranged it here for 1 person who did not dare to deregister with his many ailments. Now everything is in order , gross/net benefit with good full health insurance of approximately 270 euros p/m without deductible. All in all, cheaper than in your own country.
Of course you can also just be registered in NL and go on a long holiday. Cover your basic insurance in NL well, only basic is not enough here in Thailand, experienced many times that bangkok hospital was more expensive than in NL, so people had to come back or their travel insurance paid the difference.
You have to look closely at the policy conditions of the NL health insurer, with one you can leave the Netherlands for 6 months and with the other 1 year. Our code states that if you stay outside the Netherlands for longer than 8 months, the Netherlands will no longer be regarded as your country of residence. So to avoid problems, stick to that. You only have to stay in NL for 1 day, so visit family or friends.
I am insured here with allianz, after my accident, broken hip and collarbone, I had to pay some extra in bangkokpattaya hospital, but I have 100% proof that they are simply corrupt there. Later talk to an Englishman who got a totally new hip in a state hospital, privatroom, incl. everything he paid 137.000 thb. I or/and my insurance paid a total of more than 4x as much for a repair operation, so with iron pins in it. So I will never be taken there again, incidentally, the care, rooms, etc., of course, very good.
Bupa insurance is also very good, as I heard from an acquaintance. I am quite well informed about various insurance policies, my field was in NL.
With Bupa it is so insured for your 60th year of life then lifelong, with others it is not yet the case, but allianz will soon do so.
If you are somewhat healthy and already over 60, you can either get insurance or save the money for later interventions, take out good accident insurance, which is not expensive, so you still run the risk of illness. At a state hospital, those costs are not too bad.
Will give an example of what I personally experienced, a good acquaintance called me at about 19.00 pm that his girlfriend had an accident but did not know where she was. Because he had already drunk a bit too much, that acquaintance asked me to go with the car. His girlfriend was nowhere to be seen, she comes home at about 22.15 with a motorbike taxi, so from the police station. Her finger was pretty broken, bleeding, blue / black. To banglamung hospital, had an injection there but could not do anything else, referred to siracha. Knowledge of mine wanted to go to bangkok hospital, also closer. Asked a doctor there, finger had to be removed, cost 120.000 thb. To international, same story but costs about 70.000 thb. Asked her if she was in pain, so she wasn't, so we went to sattahip, siriket hospital. She was admitted there and after 3 days she could be picked up. When they came to visit us, I was surprised, the finger was still on it, everything worked again and the total costs were 7000 bath, which are therefore covered by her government insurance of the motorbike paid.
Of course, a foreigner also pays a bit more there, but it can hardly be cheaper and they are not commercial, so profit-seeking.
Look, if you remain registered in the Netherlands, you are taxable for full world income and all assets. So, who wants that now? As far as surviving relatives are concerned, you also have to deal with inheritance rights. Not a good idea
Well, it's one or the other. It would also be unrealistic to have it both ways. As an expat you also have advantages compared to Dutch taxpayers living here. So, gentlemen expats, don't complain so much. I think many Thailand enthusiasts living here would like to trade places with you.
What do you mean, Fred, eating it both ways? You pay tax in the Netherlands because you use all kinds of facilities. That's fine. If you do not use those facilities (anymore), then it makes sense that you no longer have to contribute to them, right?
You cannot blame the expats for the fact that many Dutch people want to trade with expats. Many have the choice, but do not dare or do not want to make the decision to leave the Netherlands.
Dear Hans, If you do not use these facilities, then you do not have to pay for them anymore. On the other hand, if you are deregistered in the Netherlands and enjoy the tax benefits (gross-net income) then don't start complaining why it is not possible to remain insured in the Netherlands and that means eating it both ways.
A strange statement. Until the introduction of the new Health Insurance Act, things were well organized through the health insurance fund. So not anymore. Don't you pay insurance premiums, even if you live abroad? Most expats have paid premiums all their lives. Then it is sour if you are suddenly no longer allowed to rely on health insurance. Incidentally, in Europe, but not outside.
By the way, I have deregistered myself and have an excellent 'expat' insurance through Univé for 325 euros per month.
Pretty expensive, have you ever looked at BUPA Thailand, diamond policy, est of 45.000 baht per year, but don't complain about free aspirins
@Buccaneer: Bupa's Diamond plan is a plan with limits on everything. Obviously better than nothing, but only suitable if you do not go to the better hospitals (because coverage is insufficient) and are satisfied with a total limit of 600,000 baht per illness or accident. And then just hope you don't get anything really precious….
There are various options for health insurance.
1) Via AXA who offer entry for 70 years and insured up to 99 years, see the advertisements in the Bangkok Post.
2) Enter Aprilmobilite before the age of 65.
I have been insured with April since last April.
My age is 69.
April International has 2 plans.
-The Asia Expat Plan, boarding before the 66th birthday
-The Embassy Plan, boarding for the 71st birthday
As an insurance intermediary, we work a lot with April and in my opinion this is one of the very best companies (I am insured with them myself). Very good and reliable!
That may be true Matthieu, but then you have to be healthy in body and limb! So for me that kite doesn't work.
Dear Tjamuk, according to the rules you are obliged to deregister from your municipality if you are going abroad for longer than 8 months. (you must deregister if you expect to stay abroad for at least 12 months within a period of 8 months. This period does not have to be consecutive).
A period of 12 months abroad applies to the health insurance. If you stay longer, you must unsubscribe. If you don't, it's fraud. And believe me, if there are many (high) bills from Thailand, your health insurer will conduct an investigation. The result can be unpaid hospital bills and being kicked out of insurance (plus being blacklisted as a fraudster).
Doesn't sound like good advice to me...
Okay, Tjamuk, then I misunderstood you. I know the trick to remain registered in NL at the address of family or friends in order to remain insured. I thought that's what you meant.
Just to be clear: I AM in the Netherlands for 4 months a year and I also have accommodation there! I just sorted out everything about staying abroad because I can't do without insurance. Everything neatly according to the book and the law, and only the SVB has difficulty with it.
Dear Khan Peter,
Where is compulsory deregistration when you stay abroad for eight months?
And if you intend to stay away for longer than eight months, do you have to deregister immediately or can you do so after a number of months?
How does it work when you “try” emigration for say six months and only then take the plunge?
I think this is a useful discussion though.
For that you have to go to the Gemeenteloket, they can answer your questions.
I once suggested to them to send people with a disease that is costly in NL to Thailand, which would be much cheaper for the insurance.
In addition to the long waiting times, these people would also be able to return to work much earlier, which in turn would cost less money on sick pay.
No .
The premium increase will compensate for that .
Then I wonder who the stakeholders are .
My monthly medicines cost 8 years ago 18,000 Thb paid by NL in a Dutch hospital, later at San Paulo in Hua hin replacement medicines 4000.- because I could no longer afford it myself.
Now that I pay it myself in a state hospital it is 400.- Thb.
Well, calling Apeldoorn is not possible in Thailand, but you can call Hue-Hin 032 532783 (andre or mathieu) or Pattaya 038 4157956 (rob) AA-INSURANCE BROOKERS, they speak Dutch, have very good French health insurance (APRIL ASIA-EXPAT) for the whole of South-East Asia, you can still go on holiday in your home country for a few months, the insurance package also includes a minor medical examination at an affordable price.
I am going to Thailand in 2013 and have arranged this insurance through Hue Hin in the Netherlands.
Your (Thai) partner can also be insured.
Toon, I hope you never have to use it, staying healthy is best.
And our correct contact details can be found here:
http://www.verzekereninthailand.nl
or via the banner on this site.
I have deregistered in the Netherlands and have taken out foreign insurance with CZ in the Netherlands, which works on the same basis as the health insurance in the Netherlands. No exclusions. I pay 340.euro per month.. Only it is often very difficult to communicate with the organization in the Netherlands in Tilburg.And it has taken a lot of effort and time before it finally works a bit.I often have the idea that people do not knows how things work here and people are not really interested in the problem.
And people are often not informed that with a number of health insurance policies there are options for foreign insurance on the same basis as the health insurance in the Netherlands.
In the Netherlands they probably think that the people who go to live in Thailand for health reasons are so rich that they can pay for it all themselves or can first advance themselves. People forget that many live on an old-age pension and a small pension.
And people often think that Thailand is very cheap, and that has long been outdated in many areas. I can't complain with my income, but I can just about keep my head above water.
A retired Dutchman, who moved here because of his illness.
I have a world insurance with the exception of the USA from HealthCare nternational from London via Pacific Prime and that is € 120 per month for me, 69 years old and my girlfriend, who is 53 years old, you can handle everything in Dutch, you receive good information and a choice of 6 different providers.
My healthcare insurance amounted to €2011 per person per year from April 2012 to April 4012,96.
Premium plan.
At the age of 70 there would be quite a gulp on top of that, hence my switch to April Mobilite International.
I have walked the road through CVZ and the Ministry many times.
I could have predicted that you would get these answers.
The route, I understand, is to create an “interest group”.
For example, a political party, an association for the elderly, and perhaps an insurance company that is slightly interested.
I am walking that route.
It is important that a preferably large group of potential policyholders register en bloc with the above “clubs”
And don't expect any cooperation from the government.
He has chosen with the monstrosity of Hogervorst for “the market”…..
And perhaps not from insurance companies either, many MAY not operate abroad, not even for Dutch people.
And the ones that may be based on world insurance, not targeted to a specific country.
There is a Belgian insurance company in Brussels that CAN insure Dutch people in the Netherlands and abroad.
And very strange, a Belgian health insurance fund should also do that for hospitalization insurance.
So I'm busy.
Hello Hans, I worked in a previous life in the insurance industry with a specialization in health care. Believe me, the group of Dutch emigrants in Thailand is not of interest to any insurer as a collective. Simply because the average age is too high. Health insurers are particularly interested in young (<35 years) healthy insured persons, because they pay premiums and claim virtually nothing. That's 100% profit.
Isn't that a bit pathetic to call it 'forgotten groups'? When people freely choose to leave their country of origin and settle elsewhere - whether it be Thailand, Australia or another distant country - they also choose the consequences (both advantages and disadvantages) that that decision brings. has?
Incorrect.
I had been from the Netherlands since 1998 and insured with the Unive and later with the Amersfoortse (through the company and with the promise to remain insured there when I retire).
I was already retired when I received the announcement on 1-1-06 that I could only remain insured if I agreed to a (drastic) premium increase.
The graduated scale went up to 80 years and there the premium was € 1625 pp/pm. That would be more than € 3000 for the two of us (then level and that will have been increased in the meantime).
This change of law on 1-1-06 has been used to discharge a bunch of old people.
It was painful that I had passed an age limit, which made it a very difficult search. There was no question of any help / advice from the existing insurance at all.
Incidentally, the Amersfoortse believed that Thailand belonged in the most expensive country category. Together with USA-Japan-Singapore-Canada.
So …… I lost my (still existing) gram again! (haha)
Peter
Basically you are absolutely right.
However….
The level of the premium, the co-insurance of family members, the low costs for hospital procedures, the exclusion of hospitalization insurance, the focus on Thailand alone, the possibility of concluding a contract with the Thai government, are just a few examples that make such an insurance particularly to make profitable.
But first of all, the Dutch insurance industry is not really innovative.
Any thing that deviates from the usual can be classified as; “What the farmer does not know, he does not eat”.
The fact that most insurance companies are not allowed to operate abroad does not help, of course.
Thailand will open its borders to foreign insurance companies in 2015.
The question is whether much will change. After all, a number of European companies are already focusing on Thailand (and a group of other Asian countries) and in fact these plans already form a kind of collective insurance for foreigners living here. However, these companies will probably never make arrangements with the Thai government due to the fact that their customers go to private hospitals.
Peter is right Hans, average age too high, which creates a greater risk that the customer does not pay the total premium for which he receives care or medication.
A damaged car or house on fire is also not insured.
The only way is for politicians to regulate this in legislation. Insurers are private parties that run on a profit motive. Legislation can oblige insurers never to exclude all Dutch citizens from health care if the premium is paid. Could also be regulated in the ANWBZ, which is the branch of the government itself.
Only then will we as Dutch people have to pay premiums for this again, many have their income paid out gross here, so they no longer pay for the ANWBZ costs.
Dear HansNL,
I have advanced plans to live permanently in Th within 1 year. The issue at issue here, health insurance, is therefore very topical.
Now, at the age of 63, I am still healthy, sport 3 days a week etc, but that can of course change.
Reading everything, I wonder if it might not be useful to form a kind of ACTIVE collective of people who want to be insured (medical costs, etc.!)
And (also to moderator): make it a permanent forum topic, where current information is kept/presented…. we can have discussions elsewhere.
Anyway, I would like to contribute to a meaningful solution… and stay informed of developments.
m fr gr
Frank
@ This discussion has already been discussed. No insurer is interested in a health insurance collective of expats/emigrants in Thailand, because the average age of this group is too high.
For me personally, the problem is not that big. I am 65, emigrated to Thailand and therefore deregistered from the Netherlands, so I am no longer entitled to health insurance. But here I have taken out health insurance (in-hospital) (via AA Insurance Hua Hin) with an excellent French company. That costs me about € 114 per month, which is no more expensive than the basic insurance in NL. It is true that I am not reimbursed outside the hospital for the costs of the GP and medicines, but they are not that high here. That's not too bad. So the costs at the moment and even in the next 10 years are actually not that much higher than with health insurance in NL.
It is indeed problematic for people who come to live here and already have defects, which means that they get certain exclusions or are not accepted at all. It is a pity that the Board of Health Insurers does not even want to make the effort to find a solution to their problem, especially for this category.
I would like to thank Gringo very much for taking the trouble to bring it to their attention. And the editors of Thailandblog deserve thanks for the platform to also highlight this problem! Tribute.
Good of you to point out AA Insurance Hua Hin. They respond quickly to your questions and come up with a reasonable quote in my opinion. They asked me more than € 200 per month for in-hospital. How can I qualify for your rate?
I think the costs for Dutch insurance, depending on income, are around €300 per month (premium plus health insurance premium), so international insurance is now so much more expensive, as Robbie also says.
To be honest, I think it is understandable that the Dutch government does not care about emigration to Thailand.
That depends on what plan you choose.
With April Mobilite you can also choose from simple to comprehensive coverage. The premiums are also increased every 5 years.
I myself have Embassy Extenso.
It starts with essential, then medium and then extenso and then of course the associated various premiums.
Ok I came into contact with April through Matthieu Hua Hin.
@Hans B:
The amount of the premium depends on your age, as well as on the company you choose, as well as on the type of insurance: Only “In-hospital” or also “Out-hospital”. The latter is much more expensive. If you want to know what the cheapest premium is for you personally, send an email to: [email protected], including your age, then I'm sure you will receive a tailor-made answer by return.
64 , BUPA diamond, no out patient, 48.000 baht per year. However, the maximum is somewhat limited for travel, especially if you are sailing in Europe and USA. So a permanent travel insurance with much higher limits for 7000b (for us two) on top. Are you partially double insured
You choose to live in Thailand.
That's your right.
But then you also stop paying taxes.
The Dutch government is right
not to insure
Dear Henk,
Whether or not you pay tax in the Netherlands, you will still be removed from the health insurance.
At that moment when you deregister from the Netherlands, and I am not talking about the choice in which country you want to be taxable, the insurance stops, if I am correct after 45 days..
This does not therefore apply to the state pension, the premium remains paid and the accrual of 2% per year continues
Whether or not to pay tax is therefore not the issue, and mind you, the Dutch government does not insure you, but the insurance farmers.
I remain of the opinion that the Dutch government sees expats as second and third class citizens.
And moreover, that the government in the Netherlands is HIGHLY unreliable.
Dear Hans,
You forget to mention that the proceeds from the basic insurance do not cover the costs by a long way and that is why billions must be added every year by the government, which of course have to be coughed up by the Dutch taxpayers. Dutch people who deregister opt for this – usually because they are better off – and should therefore not want to fall back on a system to which they themselves do not contribute. I therefore understand the views of the insurers and the government very well
Totally agree. You can't be a first class citizen for a dime. I no longer contribute anything to Dutch society, so I cannot expect that society to pay for me.
And what do you think of the tax for expats who have been deregistered and who rent out their own house in the Netherlands? They will all receive a tax refund because, as a deregistered person, they have rented out their house that still has a mortgage on it. They must all receive the mortgage. deductible costs they have received. And some even have to pay off the mortgage at once, because the mortgage provider does not like to see third parties in a house that is no longer occupied by the owner. Many additional claims have already been made in this area.
Still, a completely justified action by both the tax authorities and the banks - in accordance with tax legislation and/or the mortgage conditions (at certain banks). If you inform yourself well before you leave, you can know this and it cannot come as a surprise, I think………………
Given the signature and the short standard answer, I think this is an outsourced (India?) response from a cheap country?
If you deregister, the accrual for the AOW will not continue!
There is a difference between deregistering from the Netherlands and converting tax liability in the Netherlands into a tax liability in Thailand.
As long as tax is withheld from your pension/AOW/income from the Netherlands, in the Netherlands, including premiums, you will accrue AOW.
However, with regard to health insurance, which ends immediately after deregistration from the Netherlands, I thought after a period of 45 days, but I could be completely wrong.
Regarding health insurance in Thailand, I am in contact with the state health insurance of Thailand.
Have they calculated that 5000 Dutch policyholders will contribute 6000 million baht per year to this fund at a premium of 360 baht per month.
So break even if all insured have 70,000 baht hospital costs every year.
When I look around at my list of Dutch acquaintances, about ten, there is actually only one who has declared 5 baht in the past 150,000 years.
Note that the average age is 71,2 years.
Nine others never declared anything.
I am also negotiating with a Thai insurance company.
And he definitely listens to this story.
And the acceptance obligation is also a given that can be lived with.
If some family members are also insured here and there, at a reduced premium because of the 30-baht scheme, it becomes even more attractive.
I'm reporting back.
Roel says: “Of course you can also just be registered in NL and go on a long holiday. Cover your basic insurance in NL well, only basic is not enough here in Thailand, experienced many times that bangkok hospital was more expensive than in NL, so people had to come back or their travel insurance paid the difference. You have to look closely at the policy conditions of the NL health insurer, with one you can leave the Netherlands for 6 months and with the other 1 year. Our code states that if you stay outside the Netherlands for longer than 8 months, the Netherlands will no longer be regarded as your country of residence. So to avoid problems, you stick to that. You only have to stay in NL for 1 day, so visit family or friends.”.
This doesn't work for me! After I turned 65, I thought I had arranged everything properly, and because I regularly need medical care, I decided on the following: If you stay in the Netherlands for 4 months per year according to the law, you will simply remain registered there and therefore retain the right on your basic insurance. My insurer also agreed to this and I just get medicines for 8 months. This year I was in Thailand from April to September (6 months), and to my great shock and surprise I received a letter from the SVB in July that I was deregistered as of June 1 because they assumed that I lived in Thailand. So I walked around there uninsured for 6 weeks without knowing this. Before then I obtained an income statement from the embassy in Bangkok that I needed for my visa. I think it has been passed on to the SVB. After a lot of back and forth emails and phone calls from a friend to the SVB, I received another letter that everything was wired back and that I was living in the Netherlands again. Solved I thought. So no!! I arrived back in the Netherlands on October 2, and another letter from the SVB that they assume that I live in Thailand and am no longer entitled to basic insurance. They simply say: if you stay in Thailand for more than 6 months, we assume that you live there! Now I'm waiting for forms from the SVB that I have to fill in again, after which they decide where I live! So the government and my insurer allow me to leave for 8 months a year, but apparently the SVB applies their own laws. There is no insurance that accepts me, so I depend on my basic insurance in the Netherlands. So I thought I had arranged everything neatly and according to the law, but this does not seem to work either. Worked for 50 years, got sick, and you're screwed on all sides!!
Yes Tjamuk, that is certainly a strange story but unfortunately it happened to me. The SVB simply stopped deducting the contribution and simply stated that I lived in Thailand. By the way, I'm sure they got that info from the embassy, because that income statement was the only document with a Thai address. It was corrected in July, but now I'm having it again. I received some forms today and I'm going to fill them out in the hope that it will work out. Anyway, I'm lost for a while!
After reading all the stories above, the confusion only increases. It therefore seems good to me to further define 3 important concepts, which are related to each other in a both-and-and relationship.
Basic or supplementary insurance premium: is the premium that you pay to a health insurer yourself. The amount of the premium depends on the chosen package. Everyone is obliged to personally take out health insurance. If you do not take out health insurance, you are not insured.
Contribution to the Health Insurance Act: the tax withheld from wages, benefits, pension, etc. This is therefore not the basic insurance and is separate from it.
Living in the Netherlands: being registered in the Municipal Personal Records Database as being the owner or tenant of a home and therefore having the obligation to pay the municipal taxes. With only a postal address with an acquaintance, one is therefore in an uncertain situation.
By deregistering from the Netherlands you will save a large amount of money. After all, people no longer pay health insurer premiums, health insurance contributions and municipal taxes. Excellent health insurance can be taken out for this amount in Thailand or alternatively, you can put this amount away every month in a separate account in case the need arises.
Of course (everyone) who is healthy in body and limb can insure themselves in Thailand.
But there is also a very large group that cannot. Because people have had a heart attack or already have other ailments and then it is not possible. Yes, it is possible, but then all ailments that you already have will be excluded. So a very large group falls between the wall and the ship. You have worked and paid all your life. You have grown old and you will receive a state pension and perhaps a pension. And think wonderfully, now I can live in Thailand, good for my Rheumatism or in another Asian country. Because the Netherlands once signed the Geneva laws on freedom of movement. But yes. Then you will have to deal with a lot of problems. And to top it all off. Will they also cut you because you live in a country where everything is cheaper. Now that time is long gone.
I can just barely meet the Thai legislation from my state pension and small pension.
Pay 340 euros per month for my health insurance, which is also valid abroad. But a mountain of medicines have also been deleted that you have to pay for yourself, just like in the wonderfully social Netherlands. So there is just enough left to get by. Forget it, the Dutch government has come up with something new. We start with the widow and widowers. Nice reduction on that small income.
And soon we will be TURN. , just wait and see. All the bullshit from insurers that it is too expensive in Thailand is their own fault. Because if you propose to go to a cheaper hospital. If they say no, then you must first pay for everything yourself. submit invoices.. By post because often it is not possible by email. So chances of getting lost are high. So you don't get anything at all. Or it will take months if you're lucky.
Why not, as many Scandinavian countries have done, conclude contracts with a number of hospitals as an insurer. and most of the problems and any high prices have been resolved. Well, we don't. We are just like the tax authorities in the Netherlands, where we will do it easily, if it can be difficult.
Let those old people go, we don't care. The Netherlands, do the same as Thailand, if you have money to live on, you are welcome. If it's enough or not enough, fuck off back to where you came from. Then many financial problems will be solved in one go. and care becomes manageable again.
A Dutch elderly person who worries a lot and feels very uncomfortable with everything that hangs over him, planned by the fantastic government.
Dear Tjamuk, please continue with your comments, you are one of the few (in my opinion) who knows very well how things really work, Tribute! People who think differently will find out, but I also wish them the best.
I totally agree with you, Peter. I also think that Tjamuk should continue with his comments. Tjamuk's input shows great wisdom, which we unfortunately do not have. Thanks to him, we all finally get a clear explanation of what it really is!
No dude, you misunderstood that, you don't kick anyone in the shins.
I was actually responding to your comments in general, the fact that it happened to be in this section was perhaps a bit confusing on my part, all your comments simply testify to great wisdom and life experience.
Of course I also fully understand the story of Thailand John.
It is simply a fact that living abroad is often not made easy for Dutch people, or rather made difficult.
According to some TB visitors, that is a fate that you call on yourself, and oh well, they may find that, they are probably in a situation to find that, so be it, it won't change the actual situation anyway.
Greetings Peter
That's true as a bus Tjamuk, but to pass judgment you have to read the story first, of course, I don't mind anything anymore, that's bad for my blood pressure.
I read, I judge, smile or shrug my shoulders, and move on to some more cheerful news, the times when I still got excited about something with a red face are a long time ago, everyone can find what he or she wants, but I just agree with your comments, whether it's about trassie/kapie and isaan food or insurance issues, or ex-Indo-KNIL soldiers and their "reward" for their efforts.
That's it.
By the way, many other good bloggers are also bad, I don't want to shorten them either.
Fare you well, Peter
Dear Mr Hans Bos.
It's not a strange statement, just a fact, a fact that many people are probably confronted with. It's great that you have good expat insurance, very nice and reassuring for you.
I thought I had that too, but at CZ.
Especially given the fantastic explanation and information. But as so often. the practice may be different.
We always talk about the Netherlands as a democracy. But if the elderly of his hard-earned state pension and small pension from a chronic illness and on the advice of treating specialists are advised to go to a country with a warm climate.
Then all democracy will suddenly disappear and also the rights of freedom of movement. And suddenly there is a feverish search for it in all kinds of ways
to cut back on your AOW and Pension.
I am now insured with ONVZ, but would like to switch if necessary.
Age 63 years.
Greetings from. constitution.
@ Ad: Is it possible to send an email to [email protected]?