The Khmer Rouge and chills
Alexander Mazurkevich / Shutterstock.com
A few months ago I wrote two stories about Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge ( www.thailandblog.nl/background/pol-pot-en-rode-khmer en /www.thailandblog.nl/background/pol-pot-en-rode-khmer-slot/). As many as a quarter of Cambodia's population was brutally murdered by the Khmer Rouge's reign of terror.
It is unbelievable that the second man of this reign of terror, Nuon Chea, is still alive and was sentenced to life imprisonment for the second time last week by the UN Cambodia Tribunal.
The world goes on
This week Victor Koppe, the lawyer who has been defending this subject for more than eleven years, was a guest in the TV program 'De Wereld Draait Door'. Program presenter; Matthijs van Nieuwkerk and writer Adriaan van Dis also sat at the table with former tennis player Martin Simek in the background as a listener.
Real chills go through you when you hear Koppe talk about the defense as if it were a trifle. If you look at his facial expression, you even get angry. A video shows the same Koppe, who, on the occasion of the 92th this inhuman's birthday comes to visit him. With folded hands he greets Nuon Chea and gives him a Buddha statue as a birthday present.
After earning his defense fee for 11 years and living in Cambodia for 5 years, he says he has built up a strong bond with his client in those years.
interrogation
The program shows another piece of film from the trial where Koppe questions a victim's son as a witness. The man's father was blindfolded and transported to 'The Killing Fields' where he was beheaded. Koppe asks if he personally saw the beheading, to which the man must answer yes or no. The lawyer has a point. The man has not seen it. He did find his father's head and his sarong shortly afterwards.
Koppe rambles on unmoved and questions the number of two million murdered people. According to him, there would be several hundred thousand. As if that makes things less bitter.
Koppe nevertheless remains bewildered and disappointed because crucial witnesses were not heard, the judges were too politically minded and too little attention was paid to the finding of the truth. To repeat Koppe's words: “The tribunal was a great farce.” To continue that this long period was lonely work.
The disgust can be read from the facial expressions of Adriaan van Dis and Martin Simek. I see you as a character in the novel, says Van Dis and wonders whether Koppe has not become isolated, has bitten himself into the case and has been sucked into it.
History forgery
Koppe remains disillusioned after this trial and has seen it with regard to the judiciary; he is going to study history in Amsterdam. He has also started a book about the Khmer Rouge and Cambodia because that piece of history is very different from what most people want to believe.
But for the time being, he will first appeal against the 'life sentence' and that could take a few years. After all, the chimney must continue to smoke and the taxpayer will cough up the pecunia.
Let's just hope that it stays with that study and that the man never gets the opportunity to transfer his strange thoughts to others.
Via Uitzending missed you can watch the broadcast of De Wereld Draait Door, which will air on Ned. 22 has been broadcast to look back.
Terrible! How crazy can you be? But there is another one walking around: Paul Rosenmöller, leader of the Green Left in the Senate, an admirer of the mass murderers Pol Pot and Mao Zedong. He never distanced himself from his warm feelings for these killers. Well, and there are just Dutch people voting for these types of figures…..
Paul Rosenmoller? We always called him Paul Pot.
And, dear Peter, the Thai authorities had a very positive attitude towards Pol Pot's regime until the XNUMXs, possibly due to their anti-Vietnamese policy. The Thai authorities, and in particular the military, protected the Khmer Rouge in the border area in the eighties. There was a lively illegal trade in wood and precious stones between Cambodia and Thailand, which mainly benefited the military. Those who are now in power.
Very good that you are against the attitude of Paul Rosenmöller, but then you have to be equally fierce against the Thai rulers. Dutch and Thai politics, what's the difference?
https://gsp.yale.edu/thailands-response-cambodian-genocide
Quote from the NYT (1993) below::
Two years ago Suchinda Krapayoon, Thai military dictator, described Pol Pot as “a nice guy.” In 1985, Siddhi Savetsila, Foreign Minister of Thailand, called Pol Pot's deputy Son Sen “a very good man.”
https://www.nytimes.com/1993/03/24/opinion/l-thailand-bears-guilt-for-khmer-rouge-934393.html
Another good article about the close ties between the Khmer Rouge and the Thai authorities, especially the military:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/1994/05/29/pol-pots-best-pal-thailand/ab3c52a0-5e4c-416c-991c-704d1fe816d6/?utm_term=.baef327b179b
That's just how it is in the world. Russia is accused of supporting the villain Assad, but the West supports Saudi Arabia. Lead for old iron. Depending on how the wind blows, Mr. Pot can be a villain or someone who has to be supported by the west because they fight against the Vietnamese who were still considered communist at the time. The West did indeed assist the Khmer Rouge in word and deed at the time. They really knew who they were supporting!
It is always easy to judge others who hold different views than you do. You could say that all criminal lawyers are depraved, after all, they will also make every effort to obtain the most favorable judgment for their clients. That is, fortunately, the right to professional assistance by a lawyer.
It should be noted that for anyone not professionally involved in the process, the events in Cambodia can only fill them with horror. If you let it sink in and have visited places like the Genocide Museum and the Killing Fields, even then you only have the beginning of an awareness of the impact on that society and the country to this day. Real “justice” will of course never be done again, all punishments are by definition disproportionate to the deeds.
In my view, Joseph Jongen has a completely distorted view of the course of events in a legal process and the role of the lawyer in it. It also shows little human knowledge that he judges Victor Koppe in this way. Mr. Koppe has really not benefited financially.
He also does not say a word about what it is all about, and that is the fact that politically important figures in Cambodia, who themselves participated in the Khmer Rouge's reign of terror, are responsible for the course of events of this show trial.
I made a mistake in the last sentence. It must be: responsible for the course of events etc.
Mr Arend Hart I would like to advise you to take the trouble to also read the previously cited articles written by me and also to look at the broadcast program and to look at Koppe's body language. I will not dispute that everyone - even the most serious criminals - has the right to a defense, but the role of this lawyer should be a bit more subdued.
The Cambodia Tribunal was set up in collaboration with the UN, the people's organization that also pays for the costs of the proceedings and has appointed international judges. It is a given that not all perpetrators of the human massacres have been prosecuted and that current politicians, including the prime minister, will be among them. The intention in the establishment of the tribunal was to bring to justice at the start of the trial the then 4 still living persons who were most responsible for the genocide. The point is not that the right to a lawyer of Nuon Chea, the ideologue of the Khmer Rouge and Pol Pot's right-hand man, is being contested. Joseph Jongen's criticism concerns previous public statements by lawyer Koppe and the way in which he recently presented himself in DWDD. I saw a frustrated person with an occasional affable smile and apparently still playing down a trivial attitude towards the atrocities and his client's role in them. It also became clear from a video clip that the business relationship, which is customary between a lawyer and a client, was over. The way he greeted Nuon Chea seemed like he was visiting a loving grandfather. Totally in contrast to the icy way in which he interrogated the son of a decapitated victim in another video. Joseph Jongen does express my feelings, but of course everyone is entitled to his or her opinion.
I went there about 10 years ago, also in the torture chambers and saw the pictures.
I think it was about 40 degrees but the chills ran down my body and am 2
days of battle
been during my vacation.
I wonder if you have this on your conscience still have to be judged as a human being.
Rosenmöller is going to get a very nice position in the first room!
Incidentally, in the XNUMXs he organized a fundraiser for the Pol Pot regime. His congratulations card to the reign of terror can still be found in the archives of Tol Sleng Genocide Museum.
Nice search for all fresh young Groen Links voters.
In my opinion, Mathijs van Nieuwkerk could/should have put the fire to this lawyer more closely. The fragment that Koppe gave a Buddha figurine to this mass murderer as a birthday present showed Koppe's idolatry for his client. Like Joseph Jongen, I was particularly annoyed by Koppe's facial expression during the conversation in DWDW. He believes that he substantiates his claim about the falsification of history by noting that not all spectacle wearers were murdered during Pol Pot's reign. The remarks of Peter (formerly Khun) about Paul Rosenmöller are completely justified. Raised money for the Khmer Rouge at the time and openly declared his support for Pol Pot. Rosenmöller wanted to turn the Netherlands into a communist state, but in 2015 he became chairman of the Supervisory Board of the AFM. (Financial Markets Authority). After he had ended his political career, which he has now resumed, Rosenmöller has been in the news several times negatively as a big money grabber. Doesn't seem to be an obstacle for Groen Links to appoint him now as party leader for the Senate.
Cabinet
This lawyer also applies, he becomes rich overnight, paid by Jan with the cap ..
Rosenmoller,
He is best known as a former leader of Groenlinks. However, few people know that Paul Rosenmöller descends from a number of very wealthy families: Rosenmöller to start with, of course, but also Dreesmann and Vehmeijer. The latter clan is in 490th place of the Family 18 with 50 million euros, while the Dreesmanns are good for place 4 with 1,7 billion euros.
And the media….
Give them a “platform”.. + reward I assume.
https://www.digibron.nl/search/detail/012dc68d3b77b7a8ca4379e0/rosenm-ller-heeft-geen-spijt
The killing fields and the S21 prison, very impressive.
I just found out that something similar happened in Ethiopia.
During the communist DERG regime from 1974 to 1987.
There also seen cupboards in a museum with skulls from mass graves.
Thick goosebumps. This also simply without the "western world" having done anything about it.
“Left” has already brought a lot of good, think of:
Stalin, Mao Zedong, Pol Pot and Mengista and the gentlemen in North Korea.
I get sick when I see the fragment at the wdd. Me and my wife have also been to Cambodia and were also very upset after visiting the prison and the killing fields. We have spoken with various locals about this history for a long time and what is happening here is really terrible and nothing lies. That lawyer should be ashamed that he makes such statements and gives the man gifts.
That nuon and all his friends should at least get the death penalty.
New Left, and already forgotten part of the PvdA, with their sympathy for the GDR and Cuba?
We do know when the right goes too far; fascism, nazism, etc.
But that the left goes too far is rarely observed, yet enough misery has been caused; communism with all its perversions, Gulag archipelago, denial of the individual, etc. Yet it is tried again and again.
What is it that is so easily excused?
When you talk to communists, you always hear “Yes, but that (Mao, etc.) was not the real communism/socialism”.
Suppose a fascist says that of his philosophy, the house would be too small.
I also watched this program with disbelief. Lawyers come in all shapes and sizes. Many criminal lawyers have gone too far in their vision of defending their clients at all costs. It cost the lawyer his marriage and I'm not surprised. Life is a big theater play for many. People with two faces, characterless and over corpses they make their way, relentlessly and the end justifies the means. In politics we have experienced enough, who held sway on both the left and the right. We know the examples. From union leader to CEO of a multinational company, just to name a few. The banking world is also littered with these types. Examples galore. It's back to business for us. After a life of hard work, getting by again on a mediocre pension. Just read that the ABP will not start indexing again, because it is still far below the 'Rutte' standard. When will that club straighten its back and stand up for its clients. The ABP management does not have the character of that lawyer, who unconditionally stands behind his client and is blinded by it. It does, however, constitute a unilateral breach of contract and invokes the mea maxima culpa principle.
Big money has many faces and I don't like any of them. Law has been my drive and source of income for many years. Nothing is what it seems and law has many colors and can eventually, partly due to certain criminal lawyers, degenerate into injustice. There have also been many examples of this and today and in the future we will be able to see, hear and read a lot more about this.
I still remember reading an article from the Phom Penh Post when I was in Cambodia at the start of the trials. The article stated that in addition to the Cambodian leaders, a few more people should have been put on trial. Primarily Henri Kissinger because of genocide through the bombing of the Cambodian countryside. Moreover, the rise of the Khmer Rouge was only possible thanks to those bombings. A desperate and resentful rural population would have joined the Khmer Rouge as a result. Second, Thatcher. After Vietnam drove out the Khmer, Thatcher sent advisers to Thailand to provide the Khmer Rouge who had fled to Thailand with land mines and to teach them how to lay them. Apparently, the Khmer was not taught to record this on a map, so that to this day there are countless casualties among the civilian population. The article literally shared the genocide, it said, in 3 stages; Kissinger, Pol Pot and Thatcher.
Extraordinary Chambers in the Courts of Cambodia (ECCC)
Cost $300 million.
Has made many (full) bags even fuller.
Until the tsunami disaster (2011), Japan paid almost 50 percent of the costs of the ECCC.
https://www.volkskrant.nl/nieuws-achtergrond/rode-khmer-tribunaal-vloek-of-zegen-voor-cambodja-~b0181593/
There are certainly stories that this history and also the allegations against Pol Pot are not correct. many Cambodians know this but keep it to themselves.
There is certainly more to the influences of the Americans, Chinese and Vietnamese than has been said about Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge.
Not to be forgotten is of course this black period from this country that should never have happened.
There is no evidence, but here in Cambodia there are indeed more opinions and endings to the story than the international community believes or is told.
I do not choose a side, but I do know that the information and history books are often distorted and the other side of this history is still very much alive among the Cambodians, certainly the older generations.
My heart still bleeds when I read the genocide stories of the Khmer Rouge. Joseph thanks for that wonderful report. Joseph, our generation complicit in this disaster. Because since the invasion of the Khmer Rouge in Phom Penh, by the priests who returned to Paris and told their story, the world knew perfectly what was going on in Cambodia. But they (we) did nothing. And let us not forget that it was the North Vietnamese, the Viet Cong, who put an end to Pol Pot's slaughter. Hope that humanity will never forget that Pol Pot genocide.
Dear Eddie,
Why blame our generation? The genocide was committed by the Khmer Rouge backed by China. Indeed, the facts were known in the West, but it did not suit the predominantly left-wing parties.
Hence the vague stories about the Americans.
If you are interested, read “Cambodia 1975 – 1982” by Michael Vickery, or “First they killed my father” by Loung Ung a massacre survivor.
Joseph, I have devoured all the books in question, including "First they killed my father" by Loung Ung. I had the privilege of visiting Cambodia just a month after Sihanouk signed the peace treaty in Paris. Was looking for a representative to sell and maintain our IT products. Refugees had just returned from Paris and were the only candidates, because all intellect was finished. Every evening I had dinner with one of those potential candidates, all returning Cambodians. Every night she told me in colors and smells what had happened to them, their stories just went through marrow and bone. You can't believe what those people went through. For me, this is the greatest genocide disaster in my life. I still have a nagging feeling, tears in my eyes when I visit those sites, read about them, or think about them. And all of this happened with the knowledge of the western world that looked the other way, and knew full well what Pol Pot was doing and did a damn thing about it.
Is this piece about defending a mass murderer or Paul Rossemöler more than usual?
Then send Paul a letter or speak to him and ask him what he thinks of those murderers today. That he comes from a good family is irrelevant, or may only poor slob or kklojesfolk families stand up for the lower classes?
Joseph, I understand and share your frustration when it comes to a lawyer who seems to have made his relationship grow warmer than a simple "everyone is entitled to counsel" principle.
Dear Rob,
Defending that mass murderer is inseparable from Rosenmöller, because of him people in our country started to doubt the facts. It is like denying the Holocaust and that is a criminal offence. He gets away with it.
I can remember that there was a bit of laughter about it, I believe there is still someone in Amsterdam who calls his shop “Pols Potten”, people really liked it at the time. Only with the movie “The Killing Fields” the horrors became known to the general public.
Incidentally, PR has often been spoken to about it, but never a word of regret has passed his lips. So what's the difference with an inveterate Nazi?
In our system, every suspect has the right to a lawyer, perhaps things work a bit differently in a country like Cambodia where our way of thinking is experienced as typically Western.
Perhaps the Cambodian people, deprived of their intellectual upper crust, are still too traumatized to face it all.
That the effect of this terrible mass slaughter is still relevant for some people was evident from the fact that I came into contact with a construction worker who did some odd jobs at my house. This man had fled from Cambodia since the massacre, after his relatives were murdered before his eyes and he was the only one who managed to flee and never dared to go back. The best man remained without identity papers all this time and still managed to hold his own. Always worried about how to proceed and with the current regime in Thailand he could no longer work for his old boss. That became too much for the boss, with the current fines. It took me some persuasion to get him to go back to Cambodia to arrange a passport and identity card, so that he could come back to Thailand and start working legally. It cost me a total of 28.000 baht in assistance and that man was finally made happy again. This was especially necessary for his war trauma and I admire the fact that he did this anyway.
My hats off to that man but also to you Jacques.