Questioner: Edith
I have a question about the CoE issuance of the embassy in The Hague to Ronny or anyone else who knows a solution. I am a Dutch woman, who lives in Thailand for about 6 months a year at a permanent address on Samui. I am now in the Netherlands and would like to return to Thailand, but the embassy rejects my request for a CoE. My details:
- I have a non immigrant O visa valid until December 2021.
- I have a year extension based on retirement until December 2021.
- I also have a Re-Entry stamp in my passport.
- More than 800.000 baht in a Thai bank.
- More than enough balance on my ING account in the Netherlands.
- I have been vaccinated 2 x by the CDC with the Pfizer vaccine.
- A Dutch health insurance policy with extensive coverage abroad.
- A statement from Menzis that all possible costs, including covid-19, are covered.
Despite the above information, my request for a CoE was again refused by the embassy. This time because the letter from Menzis does not contain the amounts 40.000 baht (outdoor) and 400.000 (outdoor).
They come up with something new every time. The embassy employee refuses further information. Everything has to go through the site. They suggest that I take out an expensive Thai insurance policy. That seems unnecessary to me because I have extensive insurance and have enough money in my Thai account to be able to bear the costs myself.
I understand that Thailand wants the tourists to come back, but I'm afraid that this way will not work.
My question to Ronny: do you see a solution?
Reaction RonnyLatYa
This is again the problem that the insurance does not want to provide proof that you are insured for at least 40.000/400.000 out/in, because they do not want to give numbers. It does indeed seem logical that if your insurance provides proof that you are insured without limit, this also means for at least 40.000/400.000 out/in. But at the embassy they still want to see those figures.
Also stated on their website:
“When requesting for a COE, holders of a valid Re-entry Permit (Retirement) who wish to return to Thailand using the Re-entry Permit (Retirement), are required to submit a copy of health insurance policy which covers the length of stay in Thailand with no less than 40,000 THB coverage for out-patient treatment and no less than 400,000 THB for in-patient treatment. Applicant may consider buying a Thai health insurance online at longstay.tgia.org. You may also be asked by the immigration to present the original insurance policy upon your arrival in Thailand.”
Do I have a solution for that?
No, if your insurance won't admit, and the embassy won't admit… Well.
But maybe there are readers with a solution, insofar as that is not buying Thai insurance because you can think of that yourself, I think
– Do you have a visa question for Ronny? Use it contact form.! -
Well, the solution seems pretty simple to me. You are not going to win and Thailand determines who enters the country and who does not. So just take out insurance and you can go to Thailand, why are you so difficult?:
If the Dutch health insurer is unable to provide the 100,000 USD/COVID certificate, look here for various online options: https://www.aainsure.net/nl-COVID-100000-usd-insurance.html With an online application you will have the (guaranteed accepted) insurance certificate within a minute.
The solution may be simple, but it remains completely ridiculous that with unlimited coverage you would not meet the 'at least 40.000/400.000 baht' requirement. You do meet that requirement, that seems crystal clear to me. In addition, if you would like to get over your objections to unnecessary double insurance, it is virtually impossible or unaffordable as an older person – for example over the age of 75 – to take out something similar.
Another thing: if you don't leave Thailand, you can simply extend your non-O's period of stay without that insurance requirement – you'll only stumble over it when you travel back to Thailand.
I'm going back to NL soon, but because of this situation I'm not sure that I can go back to Thailand in a few months. I assume I'm not alone in this.
Well, but a discussion like this is also completely ridiculous because as Peter (f. Khun) says: the point that must be submitted on paper that the numbers 40.000/400.000 are clearly legible cannot be changed. In addition, I am very happy that time and time again Thailandblog draws our attention to this point, and also provides solutions. Even Matthieu of AAInsurances indicates several times in responses to questions that the problem can be solved online within 5 minutes. It is also known that it all entails extra costs. But given the fact that people have hardly been able to travel around due to the corona measures and therefore had much less expenditure, this fact does not seem insurmountable to me.
In short- I don't see why people can't go (back) to Thailand, if they already have Thailand as their destination, if they have the points 1 to 7 as described by Edith in order and if point 8 make contact with AA- Insurance.
The rules (see above) do not state that those numbers must be 'clearly legible' as you state, but that the insurance covers a minimum of 40.000/400.000 baht. Your Dutch health insurance fully complies with this. The rest is a nonsensical interpretation that, if it were a legal dispute, would be brushed aside with ridicule. Anyway, because we all want to go to Thailand so badly, we bow our heads and re-insure something that was already insured…
Of course, Thailand also knows that a Dutch health insurance policy covers at least 40000/400000 baht in costs, the Embassy is concerned that these amounts can be seen on a policy and that they relate in particular to Covid19. I cannot escape the impression that 'clearly legible' does not mean the same thing. Hence I view the rest of your response as petty, if not petty. It sometimes seems as if you are sitting at home waiting to be able to respond to anything and everything. You have been granted it.
I have to – enjoying Thailand – laugh heartily at your qualification of my reaction. Will therefore not attempt to remedy your misunderstanding.
It is of course not about whether rules are illogical or ridiculous, because then we can go on and on. For example, 14 days of mandatory quarantine is of course also ridiculous if you are fully vaccinated. But you are dealing with a bureaucratic and autocratic country and you have to live with that. If you don't want that, you have to wait until all Thais are vaccinated and then you can probably travel to Thailand without restrictions.
I'm not saying the rules are ridiculous - I have no problem with an insurance obligation. What is ridiculous is that insurance that objectively meets the requirement - at least 40.000/400.000 baht - is not accepted. The rule is indeed fulfilled with such insurance and what remains is a bureaucratic, debatable interpretation.
Again: when I look at the various insurance policies, I see maximum ages for taking out, varying from 65 to – in a few cases – 75 years. Then you can forget it?
"So you can forget it then?"
Can. And even then you can't change it. As a non-Thai you are a guest in Thailand, even if you have lived there for 80 years. This includes accepting the rules they make.
The world is big, Thailand is far from perfect, we know this. Just look at the visa policy. Don't like it? Vietnam, Cambodia, the Philippines, … there is always an alternative. You are not required to live in Thailand.
And so you are always right, 'if you don't like it, leave for other places'.
A bit harsh though - who says it's better in other countries? Are you insured there over the age of 75? Don't make me laugh, every private insurance company has a strict risk policy, the age limit is an important argument in this.
Perhaps you are an expert in this and you personally know what the conditions are that are used in the countries you quoted. This is what I would like to hear.
Peter, I'm afraid if we don't somehow all go to great fanfare together, it could just be that this extra insurance will never disappear from the list again, with the result that above 75 it will be difficult to go to Thailand.
It is of course not about whether rules are illogical or ridiculous, because then we can go on and on. For example, 14 days of mandatory quarantine is of course also ridiculous if you are fully vaccinated. But you are dealing with a bureaucratic and autocratic country and you have to live with that. If you don't want that, you have to wait until all Thais are vaccinated and then you can probably travel to Thailand without restrictions.
Arrived in Bangkok today. COE based on, among other things, letter VGZ stating the period of stay and the text that all costs of Covid are insured. At the airport some discussion but accepted. So without specifying amount.
The solution also seems very simple, but the insurance policies offered on this site are all age-related, as Cornelis rightly pointed out.
Some up to 64 years. Other up to 69 years. There is 1 that mentions 75 years, after is up to or up to 75 years.
I will contact Matthieu in Hua Hin with this question.
You must be insured for the duration of your stay.
If you now indicate that you want to stay for 3 months, for example, you must indicate this and they will check whether your return flight corresponds with your insurance period.
You can take out cheap insurance that covers this period.
No one comes to check whether you stay in Thailand for longer after that period.
If you take a flexible ticket, you can still move your date or a cheap ticket will simply expire later.
Either way, it's going to cost extra money.
I was in a similar situation and after a year in Europe I finally called in an agent in Bangkok. Within a week I had a TR virus and then had to go through the whole procedure again because my retirement visa had expired.
Yes Edith,
Those are the rules in Thailand.
I also had the same problems in November, so I quickly bought about 400.000-40.000 Bth insurance and the next day I had my COE.
I was able to enjoy my freedom in Thailand for 4 months.
Welcome to Thailand
I didn't have those problems in November, my standard statement from the health insurer was accepted without question - and rightly so!
You just have to play the game and take out insurance for 2 months then you get that policy with COVID and $ 100.000 on your proof, you can of course only take out this for three months in the Netherlands with uncle and then everything is fere3geld you can of course also cancel it if your trip is cancelled
Good luck with that
John.
Dear Edith!
I have been working since the end of 2020 to get the Statement of Insurance required by Thailand from my insurer. meanwhile, last week I submitted my third request to my Dutch health insurer CZ. First I received a statement from them without the amounts of THB 400.000 (Inpatient) and 40.000 (Outpatient). So was refused. When on my second request to also state the amounts THB 400.000/40.000 as well as Covid USD 100.000, CZ gave me a revised statement with the 400.000/40 but without the Covid amounts USD 100.000. This was then accepted by the embassy in The Hague. But now I had to conclude from various messages last week that people also want to see all amounts for the CoE. So I wrote to CZ again with a request to also include USD 100.000 in their Covid statement, together with the amounts 400.000/40.000. Now I wait for their response.
I would now like to urge anyone who is here with the same problem to also make this request to their insurer and not just wait and see what others do. The more customers approach their insurer, the better chance we have of getting the desired explanation, because you can count on insurers communicating about this among themselves.
If CZ now refuses to provide me with the statement, I will ask them to suspend my health insurance and premium, so that I can only take out insurance with AA for I believe € 300 (6 months). That will probably not work, but it never always goes wrong and that is how insurers may also notice how great the need is for some. At least with me.
Despite many attempts at my health insurer (Zilveren Kruis Achmea) to name the amounts, I have not been able to do this.
Due to the costs, the age and a huge sense of inequality, I have decided not to cooperate in principle.
Thailand praises itself enormously from the interesting tourist countries.
For the future only a tourist visa for short family visits.
We are now going to experience the tropical feeling in other countries!
Curious about the outcome of this, Haki, and good to read that I'm not the only one who thinks it's not normal to insure something twice. Besides the fact that I do not understand the interpretation of the Thais of their own rules, I also do not see why the Dutch health insurers cannot state those amounts.
Dear Haki,
I want to send you a PM because I have a question.
I'd like to hear from you.
Yours faithfully,
Tjitske
Good morning Tjitske!
First you have to explain to me what a PM is, but you can always send me an email at [email protected]
Have a nice day, Regards Haki
Edith,
I think your visa is correct.
Your insurance is very important, correct amounts for Inbound and Outbound.
You must show a statement with a balance of 5000 €, with your name, address and place of residence.
Then I think you should be there. Was a battle for me too.
Succes
All well and good, but a question about this over a week ago on this blog referred to a link from AA Insurance. Link tapped and so true 7 companies were presented where the required Covid policy can be taken out. Living in Thailand with a long stay, the premium amount is quite expensive at all 7 companies.
But then it turns out that you have stayed in the monkey with an age of 75+. Can only be insured up to an age
of 75 years at all 7 companies mentioned.
Question: Is the conclusion justified that if Thailand's access policy remains unchanged in the (distant) future, as well as a permanent refusal by Dutch health insurance companies not to mention amounts in the desired statements, people over 75 may leave Thailand but will never be able to return to the country? where they have lived for many (decades) years with a (Thai) partner and in many cases their own house/condo????
Dear Edith,
I have the same problem, it is also the Dutch insurer that is difficult. 2 rule more. but yes.
The solution is an LMG insurance with a high deductible. costs 7700 bath (220 €). then you are at least rid of the nagging. good luck. French
Edith call 0555400408 or https://www.reisverzekeringblog.nl/ziektekostenverzekering-thailand-met-covid-19-dekking/ they'll help there for that $100.000 insurance gr will
take out insurance with uncle insurance for 1 month worth 100.000 us and 400.000/40.000
in out on paper in english then no whining
Travel insurance Europe assistant 125€ for three months
The amounts are all there
And if you go to Thailand, they send the papers specially made for Thailand
Try via site en.samuiconsulting/insurance
Many people have already been helped
Succes
Dear Edith,
Yes, it is not nice of the Dutch insurers not to want to participate in this. However, I think it is also in your own interest to take out such a Thai travel insurance. . Because in Thailand you are obliged to go to a hospital if you are found to be infected. And then you just have to count on 30.000 to 50.000 thb per 24-hour stay, while with an A-symptomatic admission that will NEVER be reimbursed by the Dutch health insurance, at least that was explained to me by my Dutch health insurer. For your peace of mind, it is so nice to have such a Thai travel insurance policy that WILL reimburse it. It was worth about 75 euros per month to me and I had no hassle at immigration. I probably had such a policy too expensive, but still taken out for 270 days validity.
Main arguments :
1. hospitalization in case of asymptomatic infection is covered and
2. immediately submit the necessary insurance statement to the COE of the Royal Thai Embassy
The imagination of some members knows no bounds. 50000THB for a night in hospital, where do they get it from?
Stayed in a private hospital for a week for 2 years.
1 person room with every luxury, my wife also had a bed.
Cost (for the room only) was 6000THB/night. Still affordable.
For your information.
It is, of course, a crazy story. If you apply for a Non O visa based on retirement in Thailand, there is no insurance requirement for 'outpatient' and 'inpatient' treatment (I have it myself). In fact, no one will ask for proof of Covid cover anymore.
The mere fact that you need a CoE will be used by the embassy to declare that requirement applicable. In non-Covid times you could just travel back and there would be nothing wrong. They are the rules and I can't imagine them deviating from them. The only solution I see is that you enter on the basis of a TR visa and convert it into a Non O based on retirement (and go through the entire procedure again). Not fun, but still cheaper than additional health insurance (which you don't actually need).
NB Many responses to your post focus on Covid coverage. I don't think it's primarily about that. In many cases, the statement from the Dutch health insurance company will suffice in this area. I cannot assess the remark about whether or not coverage is provided for asymptonic complaints. I only know that certain specific Covid insurance policies don't provide for that either!
I wish you much wisdom and – I hope – a good journey back to Thailand.
Not that crazy. In the first place, it is not the embassy but the Thai government that sets the rules. These rules are intended to prevent persons infected with COVID from entering Thailand, and to ensure that if one slips through, Thailand does not foot the bill. For the Thai government, the COVID threat from the outside does not come from within.
It may indeed become more difficult to take out compulsory insurance at an older age. The commonly used travel insurance policies have maximum ages.
For anyone aged 75 or older, it is possible to take out the 100,000 USD/COVID insurance via this link: https://covid19.tgia.org/
This policy only covers COVID.
It is important to see what kind of visa you are traveling to Thailand with. NON OA and STV have an additional insurance requirement (400,000 baht inpatient and 40,000 baht outpatient coverage).
The policy of the above link does not meet this requirement.
Up to and including 75 years, see: https://www.aainsure.net/COVID-100000-usd-insurance.html or send a short email to [email protected].
Thank you for this information, which also confirms my suspicion that it is / will be difficult for the elderly to take out 40.000/400.000 baht insurance. Unfortunately, the insurance requirement that previously only applied to non-O A (and STV) has now been extended in practice to the regular non-O visa because proof of such insurance is now also required with that visa for obtaining the Certificate of Entry. demands. I will be 76 when I return - hopefully by then the rules will have changed again or (and that would of course be the only real solution) that our health insurers will word the insurance statement in such a way that it will be acceptable to the Thai Embassy. It would actually cost the insurers nothing, but would save their customers money for completely unnecessary double insurance.
Perhaps be a little clearer what Non Immigrant O: there are 8 grounds on which you can obtain this visa and only 1 (retirement = no. 4 in the list of the embassy The Hague) requires the 40.000/400.000 insurance statement.
This was about the situation in which you already have the visa, but the relevant insurance is still requested with the CoE application,
Not just NON OA or STV.
As I stated earlier in my response, also for a Re-entry “Retired” and when applying for a Non-O “Retired”.
At least as far as the embassy in The Hague is concerned, because I don't find that mention directly in Brussels, for example
Re-entry (Retired)
“When requesting for a COE, holders of a valid Re-entry Permit (Retirement) who wish to return to Thailand using the Re-entry Permit (Retirement), are required to submit a copy of health insurance policy which covers the length of stay in Thailand with no less than 40,000 THB coverage for out-patient treatment and no less than 400,000 THB for in-patient treatment. Applicant may consider buying a Thai health insurance online at longstay.tgia.org. You may also be asked by the immigration to present the original insurance policy upon your arrival in Thailand.”
https://hague.thaiembassy.org/th/content/118896-measures-to-control-the-spread-of-covid-19?page=5f4d1bea74187b0491379162&menu=5f4cc50a4f523722e8027442
Non-O Retired
“An original health insurance policy which covers the length of stay in Thailand with no less than 40,000 THB coverage for outpatient treatment and no less than 400,000 THB for inpatient treatment. (must be specifically mentioned) Applicant may consider buying a Thai health insurance online at longstay.tgia.org. (Purpose 4 = Retired)
https://hague.thaiembassy.org/th/page/76474-non-immigrant-visa-o-(others)?menu=5d81cce815e39c2eb8004f0f
Was intended as an addition to Matthieu Hua Hin's response above