Dear Rob V.
I received the info on 16/06. from Mr. A. Berkhout, Attache of the NL Embassy that the application for the Schengen Visa has been fully outsourced to VFS Gobal. You can therefore no longer submit a request directly to the embassy for an appointment to submit the documents as currently stated in the file. So this calls for a correction.
If necessary, I can forward Mr. Berkhout's response to you.
Regards,
Hans
Dear Hans,
The Schengen rules have not changed for years, according to the Schengen Code there is a right to direct access to the embassy. The manual on the blog is therefore still correct on this point. What has changed is the staff at the embassy where Mr Berkhout has taken over from Mrs Deveci since this year. Whether it is a coincidence or not, around the same time the message on the embassy's site that you could send an email for a direct appointment also disappeared if you did not wish to use VFS.
I quote Article 17(5):
“Regulation (EC) No 810/2009 establishing a Community Code on Visas (Visa Code), Article 17, Service charges:
- Additional service charges may be levied by an external service provider as referred to in Article 43. The service costs shall be proportionate to the costs incurred by the external service provider for the performance of one or more of the tasks referred to in Article 43(6).
- Those service charges shall be specified in the legal instrument referred to in Article 43(2).
- In the context of local Schengen cooperation, Member States shall ensure that the service charges charged to an applicant duly reflect the services provided by the external service provider and are adapted to local circumstances. They also aim to harmonize service costs.
- The service fee shall not exceed half of the visa fee referred to in Article 16(1), irrespective of the possible exemptions or exemptions from the visa fee referred to in Article 16(4), (5) and (6).
- The Member States concerned shall retain the possibility for all applicants to apply directly to their consulates.”
Source: eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A32009R0810
That seems obvious to me.
In addition, manuals for embassy staff can be found on the EU Home Affairs website. I quote from the handbook “Handbook for the organization of visa sections and local Schengen cooperation”:
“4.3. The service fee
Legal basis: Visa Code, Article 17
As a fundamental principle, a service fee may be charged to an applicant using the facilities of
an external service provider only if the alternative is maintained of direct access to the
consulate incurring the payment of just the visa fee (see point 4.4).
This principle applies to all applicants, whatever the tasks being performed by the external
service provider, including those applicants benefiting from a visa fee waiver, such as family
members of EU and Swiss citizens or categories of persons benefiting from a reduced fee.
(...)
4.4. Instant access
Maintaining the possibility for visa applicants to lodge their applications directly at the
consulate instead of via an external service provider implies that there should be a genuine
choice between these two possibilities.”
Source: http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/home-affairs/what-we-do/policies/borders-and-visas/visa-policy/index_en.htm
Furthermore, in 2014 I had contact with the European Commission and with the EU representation in Thailand (say the EU embassy), which also confirmed the above. It is true that some embassies or member states are less eager to implement this correctly. After all, the involvement of VFS Global means a nice cost saving for the embassies, and in the case of the Netherlands that is very welcome as the Ministry of Foreign Affairs' budget has been reduced in recent years. From the embassy it is therefore only logical that people refer to VFS, but under the current rules direct entry is still part of the Visa Code.
As an extra confirmation, you only have to look at various other embassies that are active in Bangkok, among others. They do state - sometimes not always clearly - the right to direct access. Take a look at the website of the Belgian, Spanish or Italian embassy to name just a few. So now, I certainly cannot agree with Mr Berkhout's response.
In the draft Visa Code that has been under consideration since 2014 - but still not agreed/finished - the right to direct entry has expired. This is because the numbers of travelers and therefore applications have increased considerably and it is becoming more difficult for embassies to do this (entirely) themselves. In the future, VFS will therefore almost certainly become unavoidable. Personally I'm not a fan of that, if you look at popular websites about visas and immigration you still read too often that VFS Global or competitor TLS Contact with Schengen visas, British visas etc. make unnecessary or stupid mistakes. No, just give me a well-trained front desk staff with years of experience and short lines to the back office (especially useful for rarer or more complex requests). VFS can easily go through a standard request by going through a checklist, but they sometimes mess up even that, and in special situations such a checklist by definition does not help and you simply need skilled personnel.
Regards,
Rob V
I think that the embassy would like to keep the information as Rob V. under wraps. They have no interest in making exceptions. You can also ask yourself whether there is any advantage to applying for a Schengen visa directly at the embassy. VFS Global does this professionally and they handle the procedure efficiently. I don't hear any complaints about that. So going to the embassy has no added value whatsoever. It is true that one must be honest there and provide the correct complete information as Rob V. does. If you really want to make a case of it, you can send a letter to the National Ombudsman.
I understand the commitment of VFS Global, after all, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs has less and less budget and we notice this on various fronts, including visa processing: setting up an RSO system (back office with visa assessment in Kuala Lumpur for the entire region instead of per embassy, deployment of VFS passing on costs from the embassy to the applicant, etc.).
I myself am not a fan of VFS, you often read that things are messed up by, for example, wrongly removing papers from an application or providing incorrect information. For standard applications without specifics, a basic trained VFS employee (or other third party) can still go through a checklist, in more complex or special situations it becomes difficult if the counter employee does not have a good knowledge of the Schengen Visa Code or the EU Directive 2004/38 on free movement of EU nationals and their non-EU family members.
On forums as a foreign partner I come across topics of VFS employees who do wrong things. You can also read that on Thai expat forums, take ThaiVisa. There the UK (not a Schengen member!!) has outsourced everything to VFS. The VAC (visa application center) is taking up pieces. The VAC for British visas is located in the same building as the VAC for the Netherlands, the Trendy Building in BKK. Now the British visa procedures are slightly different, so it cannot be compared 1 to 1, but on ThaiVisa you read weekly about errors from VFS that gives incorrect information, documents are removed, etc. With the result that applicants are wrongly sent or that an application is refused gets messed up by VFS. Take this example recently: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/926984-new-rules-for-attending-interviews-at-vfs/
I can only hope that the Netherlands/Schengen member states are closer to this with better quality checks and low-threshold complaints procedures so that the Ministry of Foreign Affairs/Embassy is close to it if VFS messes things up.
Ultimately, VFS has to make a profit, so it is only cheaper if the costs are passed on to the visa applicant. Personally, I would prefer to see “EU/Schengen embassies” (visa application centers) where the member states jointly accept applications and hire local staff themselves. This can be done without a profit motive. The service fee could be made cost-effective and be lower than an external party. I prefer to have my visa application as cheaply as possible and in a closed circuit (after all, this is confidential information). So no, I'm not really into VFS.
Unfortunately, direct access will no longer be available in the future, partly due to increasing passenger numbers and costs. In the draft proposals for a new Visa Code there is no direct access anymore.
Incidentally, the embassy agreed with me by email, direct access is still possible. To my question whether this is still possible by e-mail and/or without a service fee (as was the case until media 2015 and how other Schengen embassies implement direct access) I still have no answer.
I would initially share feedback about the visa procedure with the embassy (BKK) and RSO (KL). If you have any complaints about this, you can still contact the Ministry of Foreign Affairs ( https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/ministeries/ministerie-van-buitenlandse-zaken/inhoud/contact/interne-klachtbehandeling ).
If you are not satisfied with the Dutch approach, you can also share your experiences with the European Commission (EU Home Affairs http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/home-affairs/what-we-do/policies/borders-and-visas/visa-policy/index_en.htm ) via JUST-CITIZENSHIP(at)ec.europa.eu
Finally, you can write to the EU representation in BKK, say the EU embassy:
http://eeas.europa.eu/delegations/thailand/about_us/contacts/index_en.htm
I am a positive person so I prefer to start from a position with well-founded criticism and healthy discussion. If you don't feel taken seriously, you can of course escalate to higher authorities and firmer words. I therefore quite understand the embassy and Ministry of Foreign Affairs, but do not share their vision 100%. I do hope, however, that applicants will again be duly informed of their rights and options.
Finally, I'm curious how others have experienced all this. How does the procedure work in practice? Are there any comments to be made for improving the Visa File? I'd love to hear it!! 🙂
Totally agree.
I can't understand why a commercial, for-profit company from another country than the visa-issuing country could do better than the issuing country itself. Unless the relevant officials cannot count…
Furthermore, it is crazy that as a Dutch person you can travel via Frankfurt, Keuken or Düsseldorf, Brussels or even Charles de Gaulle-Paris and therefore can just as well apply for a Schengen visa from those countries, not via an “EU -Schengen” desk can. THEN real savings are possible.
Must come from: better little boss than big servant syndrome.
Incidentally, I have long been advising my Thai relations to come to the Netherlands via Germany or France. everything goes much smoother. As a businessman or woman, you don't want to lose your passport for 2 weeks to a bunch of foreign visa officials
Dear Hans,
Could you, despite the clear explanation of Rob V., make Mr. Berkhout's reaction known?
Thanks and regards,
Bert (EC)
Hans asked me to post the following for him:
———–
>> Dear Mr. Hans………
>>
>>
>> The complete process of applying for a Schengen visa to travel to the Netherlands has been outsourced to VFS Global.
>>
>> The first step is to book an appointment through VFS Global. On the day of the appointment, all applicants must go in person to VFS Application Center to submit the application and all documents required. It is thus no longer required for applicants to go to the Embassy of the Kingdom of the Netherlands, but instead to the Visa Application Centre. Fingerprints will also be taken the same day of application. VFS service incurs a fee which has to be added to the visa fee, both to be paid when submitting your application.
>>
>> This service aims to deliver a better service within the shortest time possible. In addition, VFS Global will provide permanent assistance in the process, offering additional information you might need. The Embassy will not answer any question regarding your application during the whole process.
>>
>> Please also note that VFS Global is not involved in the decision-making process and cannot influence the decision on your visa application in any way or make comments on possible outcome of your application. On behalf of the Embassy of the Kingdom of the Netherlands, only the Regional Service Office in Kuala Lumpur is entitled to refuse or grant visa applicants with a visa to travel to the Netherlands.
>>
>> It is recommended that you plan your trip well in advance with sufficient time to schedule for an appointment and to process your visa application and then to receive back your passport. Please read the information on the website of VFS (see http://www.vfsglobal.com/netherlands/thailand) as the provided guidelines will help you to prepare your visa application as accurately as possible and to prevent any processing delays.
>>
>> For resident permits and visas exceeding 90 days, applications will be submitted directly at the Embassy of the Kingdom of the Netherlands in Bangkok.
>>
>> Kind Regards,
>> A. Berkhout
>> Attaché
The embassy's response above (and below) is similar to that I received from other BuZa employees. And I hear that this vision is also reflected in other embassies (including in Indonesia and the Philippines). So I would just like to emphasize that this is not Mr Berkhout's 'own policy'. Whether it is a correct position on the part of BuZa is another matter...
My own correspondence with the embassy. I got this answer from the embassy when I wrote to them:
-
Dear sir …. ,
You are right. It is not specifically stated on our website that you can – if you wish – still apply for a visa directly at this embassy after making an appointment. The Belgians have indeed specifically stated this on their website.
However, in accordance with Regulation (EC) No. 810/2009 establishing a Community Code on Visas (Visa Code), Article 17 under point 5, there is still the possibility for all applicants to apply directly to this embassy, whereby In accordance with Article 9.2, the waiting time for the appointment is generally a maximum of two weeks, calculated from the date on which the appointment is requested. That option is therefore used from time to time.
However, the Visa Code does not impose an obligation to disclose this option (on our website), but to provide the option.
That it would not be stated that there are no costs involved is not correct. It states: “VFS Global will add a fee to the fee in addition to the visa fee payable by the applicant on the day of application.”
(...)
With regard to the “How To Apply” statement regarding the processing time of a visa application on the VFS website, you are right: the maximum processing time is a maximum of 15 calendar days (or 30 or 60 in cases such as missing documents or further investigation by the Visa Service ).
I'll take that up with the VFS.
Thanks for your attention.
Sincerely,
A. Berkhout
Attached
Embassy of the Kingdom of the Netherlands
-
I then wrote this back to the embassy:
—–
Dear sir … ,
Thank you for your prompt response. I largely agree with your response. However, I believe that the embassy has a duty to provide visa applicants with complete and correct information. For example, Article 47 of the Visa Code states that “The central authorities and consulates of the Member States shall provide the public with all relevant information regarding the application for a visa and in particular: (..) b. the way in which an appointment can be made in appropriate cases;
This means that the embassy must nevertheless inform the public that it is also possible to make an appointment directly at the embassy. I can no longer find this information on the website of the embassy.
I do understand that the Dutch embassy and other EU embassies prefer to see people make an appointment or request via VFS. I can understand that this information is given as the very last paragraph on the instruction page, for example. This is also why I referred to how the Belgians fulfill their obligations. Other EU embassies operating in Bangkok follow similar practices to the Belgians.
– Are you prepared to mention the possibility of a direct application somewhere?
– If so, how should one make such a direct application? (other EU embassies opt for an appointment by e-mail, the Netherlands also did this until the media last year)
Such a direct application should be possible outside VFS (although there may be an appointment system, as the European Commission also confirmed to me). Of course there is no service fee involved
My piece on applicants falling under EU Directive 2004/38 also referred to this. The documents cited in my previous e-mail show that direct access should be clearly communicated, in particular for EU family members. There are no costs for them at all, after all, no visa fees and no service fee (the service is of course available for those who opt for VFS instead of direct access).
Finally, thank you in advance for adjusting the information about the maximum treatment time. I hope you will also adjust the information so that it will be made clear to the public that they can also contact the embassy directly and an appointment will be given within 2 weeks.
Awaiting your response,
Yours faithfully,
*my name*
—–
Finally, this was the embassy's response back to me:
—
Dear sir …,
I understand your reasons for your comment, but as I wrote to you before, there is no obligation to state on the website that visa applications can also be submitted to the embassy. The mere fact that such a possibility exists is sufficient.
People who wish can send an e-mail to the embassy or call the embassy to make an appointment. Incidentally, this option is certainly being used.
And to avoid misunderstandings: this embassy does not charge a service fee for visa applications.
Sincerely,
A. Berkhout
Attached
Embassy of the Kingdom of the Netherlands
—
More info and details: http://www.buitenlandsepartner.nl/showthread.php?57751-Extra-servicekosten-heffingen-door-VFS-Global-TLS-Contact-en-andere-visum-bureaus/page9
From my own experience I can say that VFS does not adhere to the formal requirements. Even if you have already submitted the necessary papers, you will still be asked to submit additional, irrelevant and irrelevant documents. These must then, if drawn up in the Thai language, also be translated and legalized.
That was for me to go directly to the embassy and there my complaint was heard and the matter was settled without those extra documents.
Next time I will use my right to go directly to the embassy, especially since I have to be there to legalize my signature.
From conversations of some friends of mine here I have learned that they have experienced the same problems. VFS does not know what they are doing or the people who work for this are insufficiently instructed.
Dear Kees,
That Thai text is no longer sufficient is not a rule that VFS makes up. Strangely enough, it is not mentioned anywhere that everything must be in English (translated). Nor is it stated anywhere whether an own translation will suffice, officially translating everything, let alone legalizing it, of course costs a lot of extra time and money.
But who came up with that and why? That is BuZa/RSO Asia in Kuala Lumpur. I wrote to them last year (May 2015) and this was their response:
-
As for the language of documents: it is indeed true that the VFS website states that documents can also be submitted in Thai. Employees at the embassy speak this language, but employees in the back office in Kuala Lumpur do not. In practice, this sometimes leads to delays in processing the visa application. The information will be amended shortly and an English translation will be requested for all Thai documents.
J. Nissen
First secretary/Deputy Head
Embassy of the Kingdom of the Netherlands
Regional Support Office Asia”
—
This year she confirmed this:
“The current working method is still as you stated in your question: supporting documents must be translated into English in order to make it possible to properly assess the visa application. In addition, it is important to have these translations available when the applicant travels to the Netherlands, because the Marechaussee at Schiphol can also ask for supporting documents. ”
—–
So why should be clear, again understandable from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, people think from their point of view to work cheaper and more efficiently. No fun for the customer, however. That is why I would see more in a common Schengen office that is managed by the Schengen embassies together, with a counter and back office with its own staff, etc. I think it could also be done cheaply/efficiently, but with fewer disadvantages than Ministry of Foreign Affairs' approach (VFS, RSO).
I recently applied for my visas through VFS global.
charges for my daughter service VFS 996 THB, courier 200 THB, SMS service 60 THB. Total 1256 THB
for girlfriend: service VFS 996 THB courier 200 THB SMS 60 THB visa 2400 THB. total 3656 THB
Reading your story would that mean if I had done this at the embassy I would have paid 2400 THB for visa plus 2 x 200 for shipping? almost 50% cheaper? It would also have saved me a walk to the embassy to have the guarantee statement signed. This is also free and is carried out immediately at the counter, which is another service.
Dear Jan, with a direct application as indicated in the Schengen file on this block (masr simds for some time - in my opinion contrary to the rules - no longer mentioned by the embassy) the VFS service fee of almost a thousand baht would have been canceled . For that amount you could have eaten something delicious with the three of us.
Of course you would have lost the legal fees (free for your daughter if younger than 6 years old, 60 euros or 2400 baht for your wife). The EMS (express mail service) comes on top of that if you prefer to have the passport sent to you (you can also pick it up). I don't know if the SMS service is also there, normally you just received a phone call from the embassy that the passport was ready as part of the service. If I have to take a chance, they won't do that (anymore?) if you have a passport sent by EMS.
With a little handy planning, you should have had enough with 1 ride to the embassy.
Were you familiar with the contents of the Schengen Visa File?
I am now leaning towards an update despite the fact that on the VFS system this is still correct and up to date.
If there are more people with feedback and experiences about the Schengen visa procedure, I'd love to hear it!