Dear Rob/Editor,
After a rejection of a Schengen visa application, I would not recommend an objection procedure at the IND because of the long duration. My partner received the rejection on June 6, 2022. Subsequently submitted an objection to the IND, received a confirmation and reported a 12-week decision period that ended on October 12.
Received an extensive questionnaire on October 19 and returned it within 1 week. Never heard anything after that. The decision period + possibly? 6 additional weeks would end on November 23.
On December 12, the IND was given notice of default with a penalty that expired 2 weeks later (27/12). And?? heard nothing more and received no penalty. The only option now is to appeal to a judge who can decide within 8 weeks that the IND must decide within another 2 weeks (with a court penalty). So another 10 weeks after any appeal…..would be the end of March..
Almost a year later after the visa application at VFS Global.
Submitted by Tjerk
Dear Tjerk,
Thank you for sending in practical experiences, we can all benefit from that! Unfortunately, the IND has been lagging behind for some time now, there is a shortage of staff there. That was cut back, but when the number of asylum applications increased again, people could no longer cope. For example, officials have also left the departments that handle regular (partner) migration and the objections to the rejection of short-stay visas. As soon as the IND has caught up with its backlog, the processing times will be met, although it will still be a kind of wheel of fortune, some cases are lucky enough to go through the various officials quickly, others are always at the bottom. I wouldn't be surprised if someone else who objected last summer has long since seen their case settled. The IND has not been able to raise an arrow there for years, it is a grab bag there in my eyes.
Anyway, you don't buy much for that. You have followed the procedures properly. Hopefully you have contacted your decision officer (case handler) directly, because the general information number often yields little (“your case is being processed, have a nice day”). Try to reach the IND through several channels and you should reach a civil servant who has something useful to say about the state of affairs. Also check whether the IND has your correct information. In the past, the IND sometimes managed to send decisions by post to the wrong address or address where the sponsor has not lived for years. It could be that the IND has made a very stupid mistake and that is why your objection has not yet been completed. Keep the IND behind their pants!
Whether or not objection makes sense… normally this should all go a lot faster. Submitting a new application for a short-stay visa is a lot faster. But the Ministry of Foreign Affairs can simply reject this if the Ministry of Foreign Affairs official believes that nothing has actually changed compared to the situation in the earlier (rejected) application. Another service looks at it via an objection from the IND and can therefore correct it.
My advice: did you accidentally forget something during a visa application and therefore a rejection? Make a new request, the error was yours. Is the application in perfect order, but has the Ministry of Foreign Affairs made an incomprehensible or incorrect decision? File an objection (whether or not with an aliens lawyer). Then the Ministry of Foreign Affairs can be reprimanded by the IND. If the objection is really taking too long, try a new application for a visa while the objection is still pending. Sometimes there is approval. If the IND later makes a decision on the rejected application to your advantage, you will immediately have a stronger file for the next application and hopefully the subsequent applications will go well with an immediate positive decision from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.
For now: keep chasing the IND through various avenues and that it will be all right soon. Took way too long! If necessary, also submit a new application via VFS and who knows, you may now have the visa from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.
Success/strength
Yours faithfully,
Rob V
If it all takes that long, go for the MVV visa, it will never actually be rejected. My girlfriend took a course in Bangkok, http://www.nederlandslerenbangkok.com, passed the exam and can now travel freely.
I have been able to talk about this since December 21, 2022.
My girlfriend applied for Schengen short stay costs 3900 baht.
She wasn't asked anything like how long have you known him do you have pictures of each other?
None of that, just a check and when you hear what is in the rejection, they are just ridiculous, I am ashamed that I am a Dutchman at the moment.
I gross more than 2400 euros per month, invitation letter in English and have it here ratified by a lawyer and notary costs 5000 baht.
And then comes the reason:
2 not enough money to support her in the Netherlands.
3 letter of support is not clear enough (the letter states that coming to the Netherlands to be able to get married in the company of friends and family and then return together to Thailand to build a future there (we have bought a rented house and land to to start building ((she has a house of her own, a daughter and a lot of land))
And the most beautiful of all.
13 we suspect that this is about illegal immigration, have they read or what?
I have submitted my salary slips.
Sorry to anyone who thinks it works forget it.
Consulted a lawyer in the Netherlands: this was his reaction 99% are rejected without looking, people know that objections are of no use and going to court is too expensive and is not undertaken.
Here where I am now I have come across more than 10 Dutch people who, without me giving the reasons, were given exactly the same reasons 2,3 and 13 all the same, some have tried several times but always the same reasons.
Let this be a good warning to those who think it will work I earn enough, have a good invitation letter in English these are the rejection numbers.
Cheers,
Jan van Ingen
Dear Jan, I would like to advise you to consult the Schengen dossier here on the blog. The downloadable PDF explains in detail how to prepare for the application as well as possible. It should come as no surprise that the external service provider (a paper pusher) no longer receives any questions. Everything must appear from the papers, the Dutch civil servant looks at it from behind the computer in The Hague. For that official it must be clear (a matter of minutes) what kind of meat they have in the tub. That is why I advise in the file to give a brief cover letter as best as possible of who the applicant and referee are, what they want, that it is clear that you are not Gekke Henkie and that you are not going to do stupid things and that the rules know. Photos can help with this, but you must therefore already submit them with the application. The commercial service provider in between (VFS) takes out a checklist and sometimes says that certain items are not necessary, but the applicant decides what they want to send to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. You will not be the first that VFS says “this is not on the checklist, not necessary, remove it” and if possible an item that could indeed contribute to a good profile/risk sketch never reaches the Dutch decision-making officer…
A stamp from a lawyer or civil-law notary does not contribute that much, your beautiful letter does not become more convincing in terms of content. Documents, substantiation one wants to see. As concrete as possible. Something that is preferably measurable, controllable. A copy and translation of the lease and purchased land means more to an official than a lawyer's stamp on a covering letter.
The Ministry of Foreign Affairs also has a shortage of personnel (visa officers), and parliamentary questions have indeed been asked about this. This increases the chance of inexperienced civil servants and rush work. An income of 100% or more minimum wage AND sustainable (received in the past 3 years OR contractually laid down in an employment contract for the next 12 months) is sufficient. It is possible that your income was not sustainable or that the civil servant did not look closely or that VFS made a mistake when scanning and emailing the documents to The Hague.
Often the official stumbles over 1 main point (for example: the story about why people want to travel and what they want to do is too vague) and then they add 2 points to give extra weight to the rejection. Those two points may therefore be more secondary.
I wouldn't trust that lawyer on his/her blue eyes, the rejections for Thai applications to the Netherlands are 5-7% per year. For a comprehensive overview, see my articles “A close look at issuing Schengen visas in Thailand”. See also for EU-wide annual visa statistics: https://home-affairs.ec.europa.eu/policies/schengen-borders-and-visa/visa-policy_en
Year — Reject % of Thai applications
2010: 6.0%
2011: 3,5%
2012: 3,7%
2013: 2,4%
2014: 1,0%
2015: 3,2%
2016: 4,0%
2017: 5,7%
2018: 7,2%
2019: 5,7%
2020: 9,2% (representative? Covid!)
2021: 21,5% (representative? Covid!)
Dear Jan,
I want to share my MVV application problems with you.
In 2016 I submitted an MVV application for my then girlfriend and current wife.
You used to be able to make an appointment at the IND yourself to have your application checked for completeness.
I did this, and during that interview at the IND it emerged that the employer's statement did not meet the requirements, and the application would be rejected due to insufficient funds to support her. I then asked for a new employer's statement, and then the application was in order.
If I had not had that interview with the IND, I would have received the same rejection letter that you received.
Now in the current situation with VFS Global I suspect they have no idea how these Dutch employer statements work.
I don't know if it will be possible to request a meeting now in 2023, but I suspect that meeting will provide more clarity.
Good luck6
Jan Willem
I do wonder how YOU can enforce a penalty. Something like that always has to go through a court decision and then you're off for a very long time. Yes, you can try..
Dear Addie, Anyone can do that without judicial intervention. The notice of default form with penalty can be found on My Government and in a slightly modified form on the IND site. I have used it before at other government agencies. From the moment the periodic penalty payment takes effect (2 weeks after receipt of the notice of default), you can also appeal to the court. They then list within 8 weeks and can ALSO impose a penalty on the IND if they fail to make a decision in time after the ruling.
https://ind.nl/nl/service-en-contact/contact-met-ind/de-ind-is-te-laat-met-beslissen (explanation+form link)
Dear Tjerk,
thank you, learned something about the differences between the Netherlands and Belgium. Yes, a person is never too old to learn and here at TB people regularly learn something.
Moderator: It is of course not the intention to use someone else's question to ask a question about your own situation here. That is why there is also the following text under each reader's question: Do you have a question for the readers of Thailandblog? Use the contact form.
It should be clear that there are some screws loose at immigration.
In 2016, 2018 I was still able to get my girlfriend to the Netherlands.
However, reading all the disgraceful practices, I wonder if it will ever work again.
The only advantage my girlfriend could have is that she still works, an officer even in the government.
However, I should try, but now I have gone to her again, after all the hassle of covid. In the years before 2019,2020., I also stayed in Thailand. After all, she can only stay tops for 4 weeks, he and I work longer.
However, the problem has been going on for a long time. It has nothing to do with staff shortages. It is a rancor carried out by the Dutch government. Just look at the program “all you need”
Regularly people from other countries who do not get a visa. Family, acquaintances, even parents, who do not get permission. ALSO not with full guarantee "recipients".
It is very surprising that such a program DOES get that done.
All victims should email the 2nd chamber, including the ombudsman about this strange phenomenon. Perhaps come together and start a lawsuit, because it seems there is no other way these days. It's crazy.
You as a Dutchman are a criminal, while all kinds of refugees can enter like this.
I even remember a case of an Amsterdam school principal (?) who was murdered by an illegal immigrant in the Netherlands, which was known to the police as a problem.
Not that it helped the woman, she's dead.
The illegal one? Maybe, if it's good, go to prison and then have shelter.
Lung Addie read : https://ind.nl/nl/service-en-contact/contact-met-ind/de-ind-is-te-laat-met-beslissen
I think (hope) that the time of application (June) also plays a role. I myself also experienced it; application rejected in April because of “no social connection with the country” and “doubts about the relationship” (legally married in Thailand!). Tried again later and after 1 week the passport with visa on the mat.
Maybe it was just bad luck. At the beginning of this year there were many problems due to the shortage of expert and experienced practitioners at the ministry. Questions have also been asked about this in the House of Representatives and the minister (Wopke Hoekstra) has also acknowledged this and said that it is temporary.
Perhaps a new application will bring you the desired visa. Objecting to the IND is indeed a long way off, because the IND has much bigger problems than the ministry. Actually, I feel sorry for the IND. They get the Zwarte Piet from everyone, but they have to perform a task for which they are not equipped at the moment. And that is a political decision.
The suggested route via the MVV is (more) promising in itself, but very time-consuming. If you want a quick “result”, applying for Schengen is much easier.
@Jan van Ingen: I understand your frustration. Just try again! Yes, that will cost you 3900 baht again, but it is also a lottery in a sense. Salary and invitation should not play such a big role. If you can show a rental contract (in Thailand, but translated into English!!), it helps a lot. That 'chance of illegal immigration' is THE clincher at the moment. The other way around, Thailand works the same way. We must also prove that we have a small fortune (800.000 baht) to be allowed to stay in Thailand?
My girlfriend had obtained a visa December 2021 to February 2022 (year ago)
Didn't have any problems with anything
After applying for a Schengen visa at Global in Bangkok after 4 weeks of approval
She was unemployed and lived with her parents
So I don't understand why this is so difficult these days
unfortunately I had the same thing with a short stay visa application for 2 family members, for an ordinary holiday
applied for in February with all necessary papers (as I always did, and always went well)
i have been married to my thai wife for 15 years.
and now receive exactly the same answers and rejections, for the 1st term a letter that the result is extended by 12 weeks
at the end of that period, the result, therefore, rejected
submitted an objection with 64 pages of attachments, received a letter with additional questions almost after this period had expired and had to hand this in within a week, otherwise it would be rejected anyway, and then officially translated into English or Dutch.
the term has now also expired and can now enforce a decision through the courts.
all in all, we have been trying to get a visa for a regular holiday for almost a year now.
if you submit it to the court, you will also end up at the bottom of the pile and it may take another six months.
very frustrating
“for the 1st term, a letter that the result will be extended by 12 weeks”
Do you mean that the IND took one decision period of 1 weeks and extended it again by 12 weeks? You also heard nothing again after handing in the additional question package... I was also able to reach the helpdesk by telephone and not the (decision) official listed under the question package...