Submitted: Lawless after a collision in Thailand!
Dear fellow Dutch and Belgians,
Experienced something this Friday at 18:00 PM, which is unparalleled. Coming back from the local market I had to stop in my street because there was a moped in front of our gate.
Three seconds later, when I was already standing still, a scooter with a good 60 kilometers slammed into the back of my Jeep. Naturally shocked by the hard blow, my wife Nim and I looked back.
A young lady of about 25 years had driven into my rear bumper at a very fast pace. She was lying on the side of the road with her new scooter, which was in bad shape. Covered in blood, so the fun was even worse with us.
I immediately examined her but luckily I only saw scratches and a lot of blood. Her right leg was in a strange position and may have been broken. This is because I am not a doctor and left her lying still. But fortunately there was no danger to life or other serious things going on. This immediately made us feel good because it could have ended very differently.
People came from everywhere and within 5 minutes there were 30. My neighbor and the 3 people from the moped witnessed me standing still. But with a mutual conversation with the group it quickly became clear to me that I was to blame.
When the ambulance arrived, they asked who was responsible for the costs. And the crowd told me I was. You understand my surprise. I, …. who had been standing still for 3 seconds, was blamed for the young woman hitting me from behind with a 60-kilometer gait.
Nim also insisted that this is normal in Thailand, that a car pays for a scooter or moped. Because a car owner has money, otherwise he would drive a moped himself. I went crazy with surprise. Immediately called the tourist police of Udon Thani. But nobody home.
Then emailed a good friend, who has always worked for the tourist police. But that all took me too long and I called Bangkok (1155). There I was immediately well helped and immediately connected to an excellent English-speaking Thai agent. I told my story, and it seemed… like I was right.
Handed over the phone to my wife Nim who could explain everything better. After the conversation with Nim I got another agent back. This time an Englishman who worked for the Tourist Police in Bangkok.
He told me he had to explain something first. Someone who drives a car has money otherwise he wouldn't drive a car. Regardless of who is at fault, the car paid for the expenses. That's the cultural difference.
I told them that this was crazy and that I am an outlaw in a car. To which he said Yes it is not a matter of error but of money and culture!
So a scooter is always right even if it is his or her own stupid fault. So now I'm facing the consequences, hospital bill, clothes bill covered in blood. And the cost of the scooter and …. what comes even further behind.
If I ask, she can demand millions from me, the Englishman said. That she gets a bill for everything, so the amount is black and white.
He also gave me the tip to bring the scooter to my own mechanic to have everything repaired. So that I was sure that no false account could be written.
Surprised I was still behind my phone. So someone else has an accident and I face the costs because this is a culture problem. I'm lucky she made it out alive. Suppose things turned out differently, I could pay all my property that I have built up here in 6 years to her family. Know any crazier?
The wagon wheel therefore no longer needs to be invented a second time. With this nasty message everyone is aware of it. We have no rights… only obligations to the victims.
Whether it's our fault or the other's payment we have to. Then I think it is better to hire a taxi for every trip. Then you remove so many risks. And in the long run, this is cheaper than an accident.
So legislation is a joke in Thailand and the lawyers will do anything for money. But they don't help you because you are a foreigner! And they also know that a car always pays for a scooter. So save your expensive money.
You have been warned!
Pieter
As annoying as it sounds, but you said it yourself: the person who has the car - and apparently enough money - pays. It has nothing to do with being a foreigner. Maybe you should look into car insurance that can cover this?
Although I've heard of it, as a rule no one will want to hit your car on purpose. And when I see how careless people here (also other foreigners) drive their two-wheelers, it might be better to insure against damage to third parties in the future?
I can understand your anger.
By the way, it might also help to put a camera in your car, as many drivers in Russia have. You can get it at your IT store. Such a camera can be used as evidence. You will still have to pay in the case of a two-wheeler, but you will be able to prove your innocence in an accident involving another car.
Are there written traffic rules that can negate this in a court of law?
I would submit this to the Embassy...
What an incredible story Pieter, the above event about being right due to a scooter accident
have I heard more, I don't know what kind of insurance you have with your car, because in Thailand you have
various class in this. I assume the officer made a paper of the incident, try this
story and paper to knock on your insurance, good luck
Whether you drive a car or motorcycle, always make sure you have good insurance. In the event of an accident, do not negotiate yourself, but let the insurance company do it.
I just remembered that this rule also applies to us.
In Belgium, the vulnerable road user is usually right, even if he/she is wrong.
In practice, this means that the insurance of the car covers the damage.
If you search the internet you will find more information about this.
“Compensation as vulnerable road users:
In the case of vulnerable road users: pedestrians, cyclists and occupants of a vehicle (except driver) are automatically reimbursed by the liability insurer of one of the motor vehicles involved, without having to prove the driver's fault.
As a 'weak road user', you will in principle even be compensated if you are careless or make a mistake yourself.
The automatic compensation applies to all moral and financial damage resulting from the physical injury or death. Medical costs will also always be reimbursed.
Please note: if the vulnerable road user is over 14 years old and it concerns a (attempted) suicide, this automatic compensation will not apply.
With regard to the costs of physical or purely material damage, only the costs of clothing and/or functional prostheses (eg: glasses or hearing aids that the person in question wore during the accident) are reimbursed.
In order to obtain compensation for other material damage (eg: damage to a mobile phone or bicycle), one must first file a claim based on the ordinary civil liability scheme. Here too you will always have to be able to demonstrate the liability of the other parties.
What are you responsible for as a vulnerable road user?
As a vulnerable road user, you must compensate the damage suffered by the driver or other persons involved. If the accident is caused by carelessness, you can appeal to your family insurance and you can also choose a lawyer. Please feel free to contact us if you would like further information on this.”
http://www.intoverkeersrecht.be/verkeersongeval/herstel-van-schade-en-uw-verzekering/de-aansprakelijkheid-van-de-tegenpartij-staat-vast.html#.UwfteJogGSM
Moral of the story: never drive around without liability insurance.
What is strange is that the damage of the moped is recovered from the car, since the moped is at fault by driving into the back of the car.
Well, then you should have taken out (good) insurance. If you have money for a car, you should definitely be able to afford insurance. Then you call the company after an accident. He sends a representative within half an hour who takes over everything and even advances the 'bail' if necessary. So: your own fault, big bump.
Short through the bend Hans,
You do not have all-risk insurance on an antique army Jeep of 57 years old.
Not even in the Netherlands!
Peter,
Not short-sighted, though. You can get a kind of liability insurance that covers damage to third parties. I have it on my older motorcycle too. If not, it's time to say goodbye to your 'toys for boys'.
Between the lines I read that you stopped your vehicle in the middle of the street and, according to your own account, only 3 seconds later a scooter hit your vehicle. Did you switch on the alarm lights while you were standing in the middle of the street for 3 seconds? In any case, you undoubtedly have full coverage through your All-Risk car insurance, because I hope you don't want to tell me that you are driving around in Thailand with third-party insurance?
It is unbelievable if you think that it is (or will be) the same here in Thailand as in the Netherlands. But if you are insured for this, the insurance will pay both your costs and the costs of the other party, even if the other party is to blame. However, there are different types of insurance. So inform.
“So a scooter is always right”
Does this also apply if a (rich) farang with his scooter crashes into a car driven by a Thai(e)?
Is the farang always guilty?
Does anyone have experience with that?
While stationed in TH for a European company, I was NOT allowed to drive myself UNDER ANY CONDITIONS. Always a driver, because.. rich farang always pays. The fact that the farang often gets away well in Pattaya and some other tourist cities is a nice bonus.
My experience: always 2 desk cams running on board: one forward and one backward. Learned from the Russians.
2nd: Always a car all risk and personal third party liability insurance and the phone no. directly visible in the car. First task after accident: call them and show them that you are calling them.
3e) immediately afterwards take pictures with a camera all around and hold the driver who collided with you liable.
4e) pity only your own wallet. Helping.. that's a human task.
Don't forget: YOU have money and the other person doesn't, so who pays his doctor bill, loss of income and damage? The one who has that money. And that is always the farang. If the farang had remained in its own country, this accident would not have happened, so farang is guilty.
So… let Thai drive! Always.
As a farang in TH you have only one right: to spend as much money as possible in the shortest possible time and get as little as possible in return.
A pedestrian who runs/runs into a bicycle, or vice versa, is the bicycle at fault.
A moped that collides with a bicycle, or vice versa, is the moped's fault.
A moped that hits a car, or vice versa, is the car's fault.
If a car hits a truck or vice versa, the truck is at fault.
This is for both Thai and foreigners.
Peter,
Had it with the scooter in Chiang Mai. At Makro at the parking lot, scooter was in the paid parking lot; there is a parking attendant there. Wave me hello, drive out of the parking lot right into the door of a Nissan pick-up speeding by. Only abrasions and damage to the roof. Was clearly in my right. But not according to the park ranger and the driver of the car. Must say that they were very concerned about possible injuries, but when that turned out to be okay, they immediately started to study the damage to the car. There was a dent in the driver's door and a deep scratch from the brake of the scooter, paint off. Was going to cost at least 6.000 THB. To get rid of it, had that paid immediately (would be dumb but so far). Our own luck was lucky that money was just not in our pocket, not even a debit or credit card. The park ranger suggested getting money from home, he would come along… Felt wetness. Then got a clear moment, was affected, and assertively stated this is an insurance issue here nothing is agreed. Miraculously, data was exchanged with the driver and the park ranger, and nothing was heard from it. Nevertheless, the damage to the scooter was recovered from the insurance broker, who called the owner of the car and the scooter was repaired. I don't know who paid for that. Not the insurance, neither did I. Moral (at least in this story): keep calm, don't start negotiating, leave it to the insurance company.
Davis, when are you here in your "right"? Forget your experience from your homeland. On the road, the one who looks out and is faster and stronger has the right of way. Not from the left, not from the right. As a car driver, motorist or cyclist you always have to look out and see what the other is doing. If he continues, you stop. Straight or not. If you are braver, you will automatically notice whether he also drives on. If he does, YOU stop.
Even when turning right, you can in many cases be ahead of traffic that goes straight ahead. You pay attention and notice if you can do this and always look beyond your nose. You look around the corner and 20 km away… you have to watch traffic in front and behind you, left and right. And then you look at the speed of that traffic. You can make the stupidest mistakes here by Dutch standards, as long as you are aware of what the world is doing around you.
You should always expect everything. When many cars drive one after the other, make sure you get away from them.
Drive a scooter, such as a PCX150, which can accelerate very quickly and also stop very quickly (has ABS). You have to know the thing well and know what you are doing with it. Only then can you drive relatively safely.
Anyway…. I'll probably be the next one to end up in a wheelchair due to a traffic accident, or even worse.. But I think I can handle the Thai way of driving very well which is generally very courteous and restrained.
It is very common in Thailand that the farang who has a crazy house and then suddenly puts on the brakes compensates for the damage to this teacher. We are not in the Netherlands where driving behind is always wrong. Was it a Thai who was wrong then it was mutually arranged. The same goes for Farangs who ride motorcycles, they all think that the road is for them alone and so they always get a collision sooner or later because they usually happen on roundabouts. sometimes 30 years of experience fail because they do not understand that a Thai drives through for rank or not. And yes, the farang just pays the costs. I have seen it so many times. they smell your money.
Very cheap Lowy' Cremers
And very underhanded this nonsense, posted under a pseudonym via Thailandblog.
That way you don't have any friends left!
Peter,
And a moped paid to a cyclist! Every day I cycle quite a bit and a year and a half ago I was hit from behind by a moped on the main road and smacked to the ground. The boy and girl on the moped also crashed and the three of us lay on the ground as the traffic raced past us. The police were quickly on the scene and even the local TV crew. A little later the three of us were again in the hospital for examination. Who will pay that? The moped, because someone who rides a bicycle has no money to buy a moped. The boy's family has neatly paid for everything. The debt-payment system is therefore consistent.
To start with your last words, I had the warning knotted in my ears for a long time. I knew that something as unimaginable as you describe could happen and I made a firm decision quite soon after I moved to Thailand: I don't drive a car in Thailand!
I have decades of experience driving 30-40.000 km per year in Europe, I have a car here and I have a Thai driver's license and yet: I don't drive a car in Thailand!
If our car (registered in the name of my Thai wife) is used, a brother of my wife drives or I let a befriended motorbike taxi driver drive: I don't drive a car in Thailand!
Regarding your incident, I agree William to have a good talk with the insurance, not only for the car, but also with the insurance on the moped. There must be costs to be recovered there, I would say!
Anyway, good luck with it!
I have been living in Thailand for more than 3 years now, and have made several months-long road trips, about 60000 km on the counter of the car that I bought new at the end of 2010. I find the traffic in Thailand generally calm and orderly and the Thai generally very polite road users, although one has to be extra careful in cities where many young people ride motorcycles. In countries such as Morocco it is much less safe and, in particular, much more aggressive.
Just got back from 5 months backpacking through India, the traffic there is crazy. Nearly 2000 road deaths per year in Delhi. It was therefore a relief to be back in Thailand.
I pay a lot less road tax in Thailand per year for a 4WD SUV Diesel than I paid per month in NL. I have extensive All Risk insurance for about 300 euros (50% no claim).
A ticket for speeding at 40 km/h cost me a tenner. Even if the OP can't be blamed, and after 6 years of sweets he gets to eat something sour, then he's still financially well in the plus. Be glad the young lady has no permanent injuries.
Hello Renbe,
“”You think traffic in Thailand is generally calm and orderly????””
Then I would like to know where you experienced this.
We have been driving ourselves for almost 9 years now.
Example:
Get in the lane at Sukhumvit to turn right onto Thepprasit rd. Jomtien.
Turn right 1 lane before, but you stand 3 rows thick to turn right.
If there is space left, the width of a car, then another row can be added.
Then all this will drive!!!!!!!!! and to be able to drive on 2 lanes.
The police has a house on the same corner.
Now believe me, there is absolutely nothing clear about it.
What I like here in Thailand is the following.
Working on the median, for example…
In the Netherlands there are already orange pointed hats 3 to 4 km before the spot.
No pointy hats here.
And if one has been put down, it will be just about behind the heels of the road worker.
It all fits together easily, of course with the exception of the disturbed road user and otherwise no congestion at all, which you always have in the Netherlands, caused by the pilon spreaders.
Insertion is also done the Thai way.
With me, sometimes a god damn comes out when he just leaves my front bumper, but in the Netherlands the driver got out to take the other one out of his jacket.
And when turning, look in all directions, except up.
And yes, also look in the direction where no traffic should actually come from
And yes Jan Geluk, I have a wonderfully large SUV tank around me and it still feels wonderfully safe there.
I wish you all a lot of safe km. please.
LOUISE
Louise,
That's what he told you: he's been to India. Well, I can agree, compared to India, traffic in Thailand is an oasis of calm.
You compare Thai traffic with the Netherlands. I compare it to Morocco, Egypt and India. I continue to believe that the vast majority of Thais are extremely calm and polite road users. One must of course keep anticipating, and take into account the fact that a car that turns on its right flashing light can just as well turn left.
In such traffic accidents in TH, especially with personal injury, it is not always directly about responsibility and liability. With us, for example, in NL, this is the case and completely self-evident. So self-evident that we assume that these principles are the same all over the world. However, there are countries in the world where due to circumstances and/or less advanced legal achievements. principles do not apply, or have their own local interpretation. The pensionadum, tourist, expat should take this into account if they participate in Thai traffic. Also consider how pedestrians and cyclists, for example, are protected in Dutch traffic. Also in NL it applies that even if a cyclist is responsible, the liability can still lie with the motorist.
The Thai itself knows that, as in this case, the moped is responsible. But she will not be held responsible for the damage, because
A: liability according to Thai standards does not logically follow responsibility;
B: the one with the largest wallet then takes on the damage. This would also be the case if the driver of the Jeep had been a Thai. Many people know examples of this;
C: the handling of an accident is aimed at preventing further damage to all parties involved as much as possible. A Thai person has priority over a farang. If necessary through the reasoning: “if you farang would not be here, the accident would not have happened”. Even if you pull your hair out with this kind of reasoning, it won't get you any further, and it will only make you bald. Keep calm is the motto, put your Thai partner forward, stay in the background yourself, and above all don't get angry.
It is clear to Thai that a Jeep owner has financial resources. Pay attention, because here it comes: if the moped has the same load capacity, then you have to negotiate. Of course it is best that your Thai partner does that. In the end, the more financially sound the other party is, the less you have to dig into your own pocket. When all the hectic pace of the accident is over, it will also become clear how the moped rider is insured, and to what extent her health insurance fund covers the costs. Would concern moped driver being a poor unemployed Isan farmer's wife, then get out the calculator, because you won't do it with mental calculation.
Is there nothing against handling a traffic accident like this? Of course. First of all, you should realize that you are driving a car in Thailand, not in NL, and that other values and standards, other mores, apply in TH. As already mentioned: limiting the damage for all involved is of greater value than pointing the finger at the guilty party. Plus, the one with the widest shoulders carries the most loads. A farang also has that physically.
Second, adjust your driving style. Drive defensively. Look around you a hundred times. If 3 seconds later a moped hits the rear bumper, you should at least have had that moped in the corner of your eye. Perhaps seen in a side street, somewhere in a yard, perhaps overtaken before you stopped: what does it matter. That moped behind you, but also the one next to you, in front of you, in your blind spot, and especially the one you can't see: keep an eye on them! More than making your intentions clear in time, turning on your indicators far before you are used to, lighting up your hazard lights in busy streets before you start a change of driving behaviour, etc.etc.etc. Don't feel like this? In TH it is: up to you!
Third and very important, get Class A auto insurance. In the event of an accident, you call the insurance agent, who always comes and takes a look at everything, does the negotiations and further settlement, and limits the damage for you. I also drive a fat SUV, have Class A Insurance, all risks, full proof at a premium of 2000 baht per month. Once started with 1200 baht p. month; therefore becomes more expensive every year, which is also the case in the Netherlands. In NL you pay legal liability in addition to, for example, all risks. In TH you have more to do with moral responsibility. (Many people will now fall over me again, and argue that the opposite is the case. It must be!)
Finally: I have not read that the author of the article called his insurance company. What he does is that he makes every effort to find out how things work in TH, and that he is a victim in advance and in advance. A good preparation eg regarding the course of this kind of business, please do in advance before getting behind a wheel. If no insurance has been taken out, you pay all damage out of your own pocket!
Article writer can squeeze his hands shut that a mother was not sitting on the moped, with a toddler in front of her, a child behind her, and also a grandmother. Can just happen in TH. So watch out and anticipate!
Nevertheless, I wish him the best of luck in the further settlements.
Hi soi
Can you explain this to me then
I have some burmese people working ,perfect honest hard working men
They had an accident with their old motorbike against an expensive pickup
It wasn't their fault but it wasn't entirely clear.
But they had to pay 9000 bath to that rich thai
Shouldn't the rich Thai pay them
What I do know that they are quite discriminated against, they pay person 1000 baht per month to the police while all have their papers
I think it is a popular sport to undress foreigners easy money they call it here
And with an accident it's jackpot, the money flies to them and they just work
I have taken out good insurance with the tescolotus perfekt
even pays the police in the event of an accident, you don't have to be stuck unnecessarily
Greetings Rob
As annoying as it may be for you, the system in Thailand is actually very social. The poor Thai are protected because the rich have to pay. That has nothing to do with your rights as a foreigner, because Thais in an expensive car also have to pay for a collision with a moped.
If you are afraid of high claims, you should, as mentioned here, take out comprehensive all-risk insurance (triple A or so) then you will not be bothered by anything and a collision will not cost you a penny. That's how it works in Thailand. Take it or leave it.
Since I drive an original antique USA army Jeep, it cannot be included in any other insurance policy.
This is only possible with new and existing younger cars that already have an all-risk.
In addition, I was standing still, and I didn't cause the accident to crash into the scooter.
I have received many emails that this is the law and regulations in Thailand.
Incomprehensible but true.
What not only applies to a foreigner, also to a Thai, these rules are the same.
I know you should leave the negotiation to a Thai.
Don't open a big mouth and be quiet and present.
If the police join you, you also pay the police again'
So we solved this incident ourselves.
Despite having friends in local politics and senior police officers.
Fortunately, everything ended well, without deaths, so that everything remains clear.
They agreed on 10 Bath, and that's it.
It was a young woman of 25 years old from our village.
No helmet, no insurance and has an extremely reckless style of driving.
In the event of a fatal outcome, I would also have been obliged to support her one-year-old baby.
And yes'.. if there were several people on the same scooter, I would have been responsible for that too.
Told to the police in Bangkok that everything is very double and unfair.
He also said, welcome to Thailand.
Peter,
Quickly get rid of that old army jeep and buy a normal car with safety belts and airbags and with normal insurance that covers this kind of damage.
This also applies in Belgium … weak road users are ALWAYS right …!!
The car is not always the "culprit". Because my Thai wife's son drove into the back of a car that passed him and then suddenly stopped. But he had to pay. While in my eyes the car was absolutely wrong. But they say here If the car uses its turn signal, the vehicle coming from behind is WRONG
well country wise country honor I shall say. as a foreigner you are simply outlawed. try to arrange it among yourselves. I am curious, however, what happens when a foreigner drives his moped into a car of a rich Thai. stay strong
Hey, how well you all know. But it's just not true. It has nothing to do with wealth or culture. There are also traffic rules here. It depends on a few things. Corrupt police or police who are totally against the farang. Furthermore, if your wife is Thai, then she knows better. You're just being framed for being just a farang. Your wife hasn't really done much for you I'm afraid, I've seen several hit-and-runs here involving my farang friends. Even a deadly collision, where both parties had consumed alcohol, but the Thai was dead drunk and drove on the wrong side of the road. Sorry everyone is scared. Just let the court sort it out. The young lady has to address this, so also finance everything. We don't have that many rights, but this is not right. You just win with witnesses. On the other hand you can also say I'm at peace with it,
I recently had a girl with a moped on the back of my car, called my insurance and she came to look. She was at fault, he said, and she had to immediately pay 3500 baht to the insurance agent. The total cost was almost 10.000 baht. So why not call your local insurance company to arrange this.
who is at fault, whether it is the rich car driver or the poor moped rider. isn't the problem. however illogical it is, it is true. in thailand you have different class of car insurance.
I am a former insurance broker in Belgium. I advise you to take class 1 . or stay out of the car. that you hit or kill a class 1, Thai or farang moped rider. it costs you nothing.
car and moped damage ditto. class 1 or auto road is a must my friend. i have experience with accidents in thai for 10 years. trust me. its a must .
you might be lucky now, suppose she had been dead or disabled. you had paid your blue. don't you have the money. you simply enter the jail until you either cough up the pennies or starve there.
logical or illogical. you cannot change laws or unreasonable statements. car = class 1 insurance.
success
Based on Peter's story above.
I find it strange, in Kutchap I drove (4 years ago) in the main street, walking pace because it was busy.
Along the side is a row of parked cars, suddenly one starts driving.
He hits my rear wheel with his front bumper and pulls the fender flares partly loose.
I even had to back up a little later to get his bumper out of my wheel arch.
When I got out I saw an almost crippled old man come out of that car through the wrong door.
Feeling his car with his hands for a long time, he came to me.
He wore impossible glasses with a cracked glass held together with tape.
My girlfriend says let it go because it's an old man.
I look at his car and couldn't find a spot that wasn't damaged.
I walk to the other side and see that the car there was about eighty percent narrower by 10 inches.
I definitely wanted the police involved.
This lasted at least 20 minutes and it became a madhouse in that street because I refused to move my car
That's why the trucks with sugar cane had to maneuver between the parked cars and mine.
Together with dozens of mopeds because the market was right next door.
Police cordoned off the street on one side, allowing traffic to return to normal.
We all had to come to the station.
Grandpa's son also came there a little later.
And he looks at the bumper, I go over to it and he tells me that grandpa shouldn't be driving anymore.
I agreed wholeheartedly and walked to the flattened side.
He says Grandpa had driven past the wall of his house and kept going at full throttle.
I say: I drove behind him, and on the way to the police station he almost got hit again.
The police arrive and want to see Grandpa's papers, and it turns out he doesn't have insurance.
They go into the office and 20 minutes later they come out again.
Grandpa had to pay 17.000 Baht to the police.
Gets back in the car to some grumbling from his son and drive away!
It was so small that you have to look through the steering wheel to see the road.
It had become dark by now and the car only had parking lights at the front and no lights at all at the rear.
I'm looking at the officer with wide eyes, he pretends not to see that.
The police just let him drive off the property.
So I guess that 17.000 in the police pocket went missing.
These stories (experiences) always put me back on the ground, since I too often paint a too positive image of Thailand when I talk about this beautiful country and its pleasant people.
My question: does the fact that you are a foreigner (non-Thai) also play a role, or would a Thai with a car in this case also be the (cultural) perpetrator who has to pay for the costs?
Also striking, in comparison with the Western world, is the conspiracy of one's own people against someone of a different origin.
Being politically correct is clearly a Western phenomenon.
Very strong buddy.
Dear Pat, from the comments and elsewhere on this blog about Thailand, you can read that the simple fact that you are a farang is not the deciding factor in all cases, just as a Thai is not an advantage in all cases. In TH nothing is unambiguous, nothing is explicit, and if you can deal with that, TH is very pleasant.
Regarding your question: a rich Thai will pay the costs just as quickly as a farang, but if he chooses a dubious solution, then a Thai has the advantage of better and more favorable control of the game.
I myself was in a scooter accident in Cha-Am a few years ago. A truck stopped neatly at an intersection to give me the right of way. The moment I crossed the road, a scooter with 2 girls on it came out from behind the truck with a bang, where I and my co-passenger fully collapsed. Fortunately, all four of us only had abrasions. The two girls immediately came to us and apologized. Our rented scooter was quite damaged. (glass of headlight and flashing light were broken and some paint damage) The scooter of the two Thai girls did not work anymore. Many bystanders immediately came to help us. Thinking of stories I knew about collisions with farangs, I wanted to move on as quickly as possible. I could already imagine that I would have to pay all the costs if the police were called in. Also because I didn't have a driver's license for a Thai scooter (125CC) at the time. We checked with the two Thai girls if we were okay and then drove to our rented house as quickly as possible. I had the scooter repaired the next day, at a repair shop along the road, for 250 bath. I polished off the scratches as best I could and luckily the landlord didn't notice anything, so I just got my deposit back.
Driving without a valid driver's license is extremely stupid, and being involved in a traffic accident that results in death or serious injury can land you in genesis for months.
Gee I'm getting scared because my husband is also a fan of renting a motorcycle in Cha am!
Based on Peter's story above.
I find it strange, I drove (4 years ago) at walking pace in the main street of a small town, because it was busy.
Along the side is a row of parked cars, suddenly one starts driving.
He hits my rear wheel with his front bumper and pulls my fender flares partly loose.
I even had to back up a little later to get his bumper out of my wheel arch.
When I got out I saw an almost crippled old man come out of that car through the wrong door.
Feeling his car with his hands for a long time, he came to me.
He wore impossible glasses with a cracked glass held together with tape.
My girlfriend says let it go because it's an old man.
I look at his car and couldn't find a spot that wasn't damaged.
I walk to the other side and see that the car there was about eighty percent, 10 cm narrower.
I definitely wanted the police involved.
This lasted at least 20 minutes and it became a madhouse in that street because I refused to move my car
That's why the trucks with sugar cane had to maneuver between the cars parked across the street and mine.
Together with dozens of mopeds because the market was right next door.
Police cordoned off the street on one side, allowing traffic to return to normal.
We all had to come to the station.
Grandpa's son also came there a little later.
And he looks at the bumper, I go to him and he tells me that grandpa shouldn't be driving anymore.
I agreed wholeheartedly and walked to the flattened side.
He says Grandpa had driven past the wall of his house and kept going at full throttle.
I say: I drove behind him to the station, and on the way he almost crashed again.
The police arrive and want to see Grandpa's papers, and it turns out he doesn't have insurance.
They go into the office and 20 minutes later they come out again.
Grandpa had to pay 17.000 Baht to the police.
Grandpa gets back in the car to some grumbling from his son and drives away!
It was so small that you have to look through the steering wheel to see the road.
It had become dark by now and the car only had parking lights at the front and no lights at all at the rear.
I'm looking at the officer with wide eyes, he pretends not to see that.
The police just let him drive off the property.
So I guess that 17.000 in the police pocket went missing.
So I didn't pay for the damage to grandpa's car.
No money to the police either.
A few weeks later I had to go back to the Netherlands so I don't know how it went on.
My all-risk will have reimbursed my damage.
Greetings Jan
Hello. May I ask what kind of insurance you have for the car?
After writing such a story, surely he will not have good insurance. Otherwise it wouldn't have been worth writing. Moreover, Pieter probably didn't know what the consequences would be when you got into such a situation. Anyone who regularly reads Thailandblog should know it by now.
And when you read the many responses, we almost all agree that he should have taken out a higher insurance policy. Then he wouldn't have had any problems.
However, his reaction is not so strange. You are so quick to assume your own situation and think that it is generally the same everywhere. He wasn't at fault, so he thought he was right.
Not so. With good insurance it all ended better.
I know the same from the foreigners who live in the Netherlands. I know a few people who think they should change the Netherlands because they are doing 'better' in their own country.
It's a human response. Only hope that he (and also among the many fellow readers) learns from it.
A good two years ago, an idiot on a motorcycle (scooter) crashes into my stationary car.
Under the watchful eye of a policeman who witnessed the event.
And yes, the motorcycle was confiscated by the policeman, to cover my damage.
Do have to tell me that I have a brother-in-law who does something with the judiciary,
He explained it to me.
If there is a direct collision between two moving vehicles, one of which is a car and the other a motorcycle, then the car is not automatically to blame, but is often partly dependent on the presence or absence of good insurance. stipulates that the car will be the paying party.
However, if a car is stationary on the road and a motorcycle hits it, then NOT the driver of the car is at fault, but the driver of the motorcycle.
Which means that in theory the driver of the motorcycle pays for the damage, including his own damage.
But, and that's where the shoe pinches, a police officer often draws up a PV, then sorting, which often contains some fantasies.
And that happens especially if a Westerner owns or drives the car.
And then the Westerner is guilty.
Of course something can be done about it.
I won't say how.
What also often happens is that the first insurance agent present talks to the police officer.
You must be lucky that your insurance agent is the first.
By the way, there is an insurance company that covers liability, the premium is a good 7500 baht per year, regardless of the age of the car.
Hmmm… separate story. I am sure that first of all you should not forget that you are the wealthy farang in the eyes of the Thai and also that group of bystanders. Don't forget that the farang pays different, higher prices than the Thai and the farang does not have the same rights as the Thai. If you want to live consciously in Thailand, you will have to accept this. Don't forget that the farang is seen as a walking ATM because of the luxurious lifestyle that many farang live. If you drove a second-hand VW polo in Europe, it must be an expensive pick-up in Thailand. In Europe people lived in a terraced house, in Thailand it must be a villa with a swimming pool. In Europe, groceries were bought at Aldi and beer was bought to save money, in Thailand, the farang prefers to hang out in the bar every day and buy his beer there. It all sounds very unfair, especially considering that the Thai, once legally residing in Europe, has the same rights as the original resident of that country. You pay a high price for that daily sun you want and the smiles of the people there (although that smile on your face won't be found now), but you probably already knew that from your previous vacations before you decided that cold, unfriendly Europe for daily sun and the smile of the friendly Thai. For me a reason to prefer to live in the south of Europe if possible.
I drive a lot of motorbike here every day.
I know such stories all too well.
Have not had any personal experience with it until now (knock on wood).
So to have been involved in an accident yourself.
But my spouse once told me a story that the law in Thailand works like that, looks a lot like the one in Holland.
That the weakest party is favored and wins.
So a collision between a car , pickup and a moped , the moped wins anyway .
But I do know from my own experience in my direct environment and even in my spouse's family that I can give examples.
Corruption wins again.
So the police and lawyers are of no use to you either.
The Thai person in this country with the most money and prestige ALWAYS WINS .
It doesn't matter what the law says, things will get twisted one way or another.
That you certainly can't win the game.
I am not telling the stories from my own experience , as there are certainly several examples among the posters of this weblog .
After all, what matters is the content of this post.
Jan Beute.
A very interesting explanation of how people here in Thailand deal with liability in the event of an accident. Perhaps I have overlooked something, but the question has been asked several times; what if a farang crashes into a Thai car with a moped or bicycle? I wish I had an answer to that. Dre
You're pretty done with it
I had the same thing in Kanchanaburi, a bus hit my car,
Everyone off the bus, hey that iT, yes
He was wrong, luckily bugget ran very easily over this,
With Maze
Never buy a car, definitely don't drive, don't take any risks in Thailand,
The best thing you can do, which is the cheapest, is to return to the Netherlands
Gone Farrang, gone revenue
Succes
Nonsense, I bought a brand new 3WD SUV over 4 years ago, and drove it criss-cross through Thailand for about 60.000 km. One ticket for speeding, 400 baht = 10 euros. and have never had any problems or ended up in awkward traffic situations.
Next happens in Kanchnaburi standing at a red traffic light and a scooter falls over, causing several to fall over. The latter hits our car rim, resulting in scratches in the paint of the rim. Boy had/has no money, can just pay the monthly costs of a scooter. Much needed for school and work.
Okay, have indicated mai pen rai. Can happen.
And now the Dutch know all about this (with a smile) we are 3 star all risk insured with special indication that a foreign family is driving it, namely me. Called the insurer and reported that there are scratches on the rim at tescolotus after groceries. Full garage bill reimbursed. Everyone happy. We new rim boy no fault. Lots of good karma.
Let's not forget that Pieter shares a bad experience in itself. An accident is never fun.
From his point of view, he was not the cause of it either.
Then it seems logical that the damage should not be recovered from him.
It is therefore frustrating to experience that it turns out to be the rule.
And not unimportant, since Pieter pays for the costs,
does this give the impression that it was all Peter's fault.
In an unwanted drama, everyone is a victim.
As mentioned earlier, cleaning up the scrap heap, taking out a new car with good all-risk insurance, excludes a lot of misery. Furthermore, I wonder why you turn to the tourist police with pain and difficulty, if you have political friends among politicians and high-ranking police officers. Or is your fantasy extra stimulated by this incident or perhaps already by previous events here in Thailand. And furthermore, a damage of 10000 thb is not immediately insurmountable, as far as true, you really make a drama out of it..
Hello Carl,
The message from me is to put this on the blog, what my experience is in this.
So that others can also absorb my story and draw a lesson from it.
That's why I wrote, the wheel no longer needs to be invented.
My choice to drive an open Jeep is my choice"
Here it is possible all year round, and not in the Netherlands.
10 000 Bath is therefore only 250 Euro'
But if you think you're innocent, it's a lot of money.
Tomorrow I'm going to a driving school in Udon, and want more clarification, what their story is legal'
They must know because they are preparing the people for the road.
Came slowly to drive into my gate, until there were people with a moped in front, so I had to stop'
I stood still on the street.
About 3 seconds later, I was hit by someone known to be very reckless'
And drove me with a thick 60 kilometers in my bumper.
She's not wearing a helmet
And has no valid insurance on her scooter.
It was 1800:XNUMX PM, so not dark yet.
Yes'… then you would like to share this with third parties who are interested in this'
And it looks like it has had an effect, given the many reactions.
If it had been a more serious accident, I would have called on friends.
Because I think that I too have rights in Thailand'!!
But as written, it all ended with a fizzle, and an experience richer.
Now I own, a small 3000 Bath damage to my Jeep'
Was this a new car…. then maybe the entire back end was in the scrap.
Because today's material is plastic or cookie tin steel.
So no over the top drama in my experience, just an open signal.
Peter,
Dear Pieter, it is good that you share your experiences on this blog. Traffic in TH is not like elsewhere, eg in NL. As far as I understand from you, it is not just about the accident (could also have happened in NL by a young man without a helmet on a moped that was too fast), but about the settlement. In the settlement, we always look at who the parties involved are, what the relationship is between the parties, and whether there is any relevant insurance.
As a farang you are not always the underlying party, as several reactions testify. Also in your case it is clear that you bear no responsibility for the accident. But that does not mean in TH that you will not be held liable for the damage. That is not always necessary just because you are a farang. The opposite also occurs. An acquaintance of mine was riding his moped when he made a misjudged overtaking attempt against a car parked along the road. He was clearly at fault. Yet, after he was picked up and hoisted up by the owner of the car, the damage was shared: he shared his through his moped damage, the Thai through his car insurance. In short: he escaped with a fright!
More or less that is what is most important in TH: make sure you have good insurance, both for mopeds and for riding, motorcycle and car, with the greatest coverage. In the event of an accident, always call the insurance man, who will take care of the further handling. In your case, I could imagine that even your car insurance, if you had it, would have covered all damage from the moped driver and from you. This completely prevented any trouble as it is now!
Hi Soi
Example,
My Vietnamese wife had an accident about a year ago.
She briefly bumped the car bumper against a moped that was waiting in front of her.
The moped rider lost her stability.
Came to fall, and the pebbles of the road, she had in her knee'
Which, by the way, hurts a lot.
Fortunately there was no further damage.
We took her to a clinic to clear the knee by an expert.
We paid this bill, and gave her another 1000 Bath for the scare and the good luck.
Everyone was pleased with this'
Also without setting up our insurance, and police.
Sometimes… you can humanly arrange something among yourselves.
Also with our dog, who unexpectedly crossed the road.
Moped crashed, and we paid all expenses for that one'
That seems only fair to me, because we do not run away from our responsibility!
I also sent an email to my insurance company today that I want to take out third-party insurance, given the coverage and the risk we run here in Thailand.
Accidents also occur daily in the Netherlands.
But… here everyone drives right through each other, which is not possible in the Netherlands with separate foot and cycle paths.
Here many drivers do not have a driver's license and insurance.
Among other things, this only increases the chance of an accident!
And of course I also hear other positive stories in Thailand'
But this happened to me on Friday, that's why I posted this on the Blog'
Because I think it's extremely unfair that someone without a helmet, without insurance and reckless driving should be paid.
This is how you reward someone for their own stupidity'
Peter,
Moderator: your comment does not comply with our house rules.
Again many negative reactions, here's a positive one, was last September with a rental car (ford fiesta)
parked in front of our sister-in-law's restaurant, while we were eating a scooter clapped, driven by a 15-year-old girl on the back of the car, while she was driving the scooter she was on the phone, so did not notice the car, well the police are there , scooter confiscated and called the landlord, this one
was casual about it and said he had first class insurance for the damage, just asked us to get some money out to pay for the days his car was being repaired, the family paid
and the landlord received his money, when we returned the rental car in udon, he thanked us for the
made the effort, and also immediately returned the deposit of 3000 bath, perhaps this is unique but recognize
something positive here.
Is the situation in the Netherlands really different from that in Thailand? According to the insurance site.nl, the situation in the Netherlands is as follows:
As a motorist, you are involved in a car accident. You are not to blame for that. Yet you are liable. And you must also compensate (part of) the damage to the other party. How is that possible?
It seems so logical: whoever is at fault for a car accident is also liable for the costs. After all, you have not taken out car insurance to pay for the compensation, while you are not to blame.
However, there are situations in which you are not at fault, but you are liable.
Weaker road users
The law offers special protection to weaker road users. These are, for example, pedestrians and cyclists. They do not have to prove guilt or culpability to be entitled to compensation.
In concrete terms: if you, as a motorist, collide with a cyclist, there is a good chance that you will be liable. In addition to the damage to the bicycle and cyclist, you also pay for the damage to your own car. Naturally, the WA car insurance reimburses the compensation to the cyclist. And if you have an all-risk insurance, the damage to your own car will also be reimbursed by the car insurer. However, this is at the expense of the number of claim-free years and the no-claim discount.
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