Statement of the week: Tourists should avoid attractions with animals
It is a thorn in the side of animal protectors: rides on the back of an elephant. Because contrary to what you might think, jumbo has a weak back.
The animal does have a strong trunk, so lugging tree trunks is no problem. And then you have the elephant shows, in which elephants play a game of football, and elephants who make a beautiful painting with a brush. Or elephants trudging through the exhaust fumes in the big city to earn money for their boss.
The Party for the Animals would have a day's work in Thailand, because not only elephants are being messed around with, but also tigers and other animals. In Safari World, visitors can see dressed up monkeys, who had to perform in Dutch zoos about 50 years ago, but have long since been allowed to enjoy a free life on the monkey rock.
And what about the tiger temple Wat Pha Luang Ta Bua in Kanchanaburi? The Pantera foundation calls on tourists to avoid the temple because the trade in tigers and the mistreatment of tigers are 'the order of the day'. That is also what Care for the Wild International says. No shelter for cubs rescued from the hands of poachers. Just a tourist attraction and a gold mine for the monks.
An additional problem of all this 'beauty' is that elephants and tigers are hunted. Poachers kill elephant mothers and sell their young to elephant camps. Tigers are also a sought-after loot.
We summarize all this in the statement: 'Tourists should avoid attractions with animals'. If you agree, climb into the pen and tell why you think so.
Or do you say: we as tourists have nothing to do with that. As long as Thais offer those attractions, we will use them. We do not interfere in the internal affairs of the country. It is up to the Thais to put an end to that or not.
definitely not participating! Not for entertainment and not with money! In the Netherlands you would also boycott that, wouldn't you?
That's obvious, but that's me. Why not. Do we have to get involved in the whole world again, while we cannot get things in order in our own country? . Typical Netherlands.
Nonsense about all those counselors hitting with sticks. It's not that bad and believe me, I've seen a lot. Very loyal caregivers. Sometimes for the life of an elephant. Don't whine Dutch!!!!
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I would also like to add that a large number of responses are VERY HYPOCRITIC. Everyone has sat on an elephant or has a photo with a tiger or tiger cub, or has been to the cobras or seen the crocodiles. And now that you've seen it, no one is allowed anymore, because it's not fun. Come on . There are many animals that enjoy it and have a better time than in the jungle. That also means fighting for survival all day long.
What do we all do with animals. Think very carefully. Then you might be ashamed of that.
I am against real abuse of animals, but I have been seeing them here for 15 years, which is not so bad. And things that are mentioned are often greatly exaggerated. Don't be more Catholic than the Pope!!!!
I have long wanted to express my support for various animal protection organizations,
but I think it doesn't help much.
it only helps if the government provides financial support to the families just outside pattaya.
Only the government can ban games with elephants, but the question remains whether it is enforced, because of the great corruption.
i think it would be better for the organizations to write to countries such as china, japan, russia and surrounding countries.
most tourists do not know how a young elephant is trained.
I hope you get the support you deserve.
an animal lover.
Totally agree with the statement. I was once tempted to go on an elephant ride, it was advertised as 'discover the elephant in its natural environment' etc. but before I knew it I was queuing for a glorified fairground attraction. The elephants were poked with big hooks and whacked to keep walking, and I felt like a really stupid tourist afterwards. Since then all monkey shows, elephant tours, etc. have bothered me. Sometimes a baby elephant walks on the beach amid great interest from tourists who then buy and feed peanuts, and it makes me a bit sad these days. Think that good information should eventually convince the Thai of the fact that animals are not meant for this, I think that's the only way to ban it.
Even though it is nice for us and especially our children to give a baby elephant a bite to eat for 20 baht, but remember that they are indeed gangs that operate from Bangkok and let Cambodians and people from Laos beg with those animals. An elephant belongs in the jungle and not on the hot beach where they completely burn the soles of their feet.
Monkeys, no matter how cute, shouldn't be chained on someone's shoulder. Indeed, if WE STOP GIVING MONEY, it is no longer interesting to keep those animals. It will take years, but the beginning must be there.
I think it's terrible, like in a zoo where the crocodile farm is also the animals are in too small cages of bears with tumors on their heads. Not to look at! We also waited at the bus until the group came back. Never lose those images no matter how beautiful the rest of Thailand is
In 5 weeks we hope to leave for Thailand for 4 weeks. We put together the trip ourselves and of course an elephant ride was first on the program. I wasn't a big fan of that but still, it was on the list. But as I read more and more, this became more and more distasteful to me. I asked someone who had taken a ride there this year what it was like. "I will NEVER do it again...so sad." The ride has been canceled. But now the next thing... Of course I would like to see such an enormously imposing animal up close. We are now looking at Elephant World...I believe it is near Chiang Mai...A sanctuary for elephants...where you as a tourist can spend a day helping/watching with and caring for these elephants. How do people feel about that?
Elephants World is in Kanchanaburi, went there this summer. Had a nice day, taking care of the animals and bathing with them. No rides and other bells and whistles. Lots of information about the animals. Special to experience.
That's right, I've been there too and the elephants there enjoyed it too. It's not doom and gloom everywhere. It often varies per elephant camp. I also know the young elephants who struggle with their guide through the busy traffic of Bangkok from one tourist spot to another. I don't think that's possible, I never buy a bag of bananas from that either. But I also once made a trip on an elephant through the jungle. There was no hook involved here, just a stick to encourage him. Something that, according to an elephant keeper from Burgers Zoo, an elephant hardly feels. (a hook of course) I wouldn't do it anymore because it is not pleasant at all for the elephant, but certainly not for yourself either. It caused my back pain for a few days. Many tourists book a holiday including excursions with a ride on elephants. As for the elephant show, like they have at Phuket Zoo, I have mixed feelings about that. The elephants are standing there in a small concrete area with their feet on a chain and are showing some strange behavior, I think. The football show, basketball, drawing, etc. I think the elephants have fun there, but I think that is because they can be freed from that damn chain for a while. It might be a good idea to approach travel agencies and travel organizations about this. Or for a quality mark on the elephant camps.
There are some nuances to the statement. Every Dutch person thinks that owning a dog is normal. But has the statement proponent ever thought about where animal abuse ends here? Is that a dachshund that is allowed to run in a large garden all day? Or a border collie who lives in an apartment but is allowed to run on the heath three hours a day? Or just stay with that greyhound who won't leave his beautiful farm? Has the statement positer ever trained a puppy? The first puppy who enjoys the first lessons has yet to be born. You can also ask questions about the use of dairy cows or horses.
The history of the Thai elephant is a sad one. In the past, the elephant was necessary for forestry and warfare. Its use in forestry only stopped completely about 20 years ago. And what do you do with your elephant that you love, that brought you prosperity, but that now costs you 1.500 Baht/day in food? You're going to rent it out to tourists. And guess what? You suddenly earn a lot more. So your neighbor also wants an elephant.
I don't care much for the snake, tiger, crocodile and elephant shows.
Monkeys are very important to Thailand. 99% of Thai coconuts are picked by monkeys. It is the only animal in Thailand that you can take from the wild PROVIDED you use it to pick coconuts and you have the correct papers. There are many monkey schools in Thailand, almost all of them perform a circus show for tourists. There is also one who commands respect. Because of the special way of training, without punishments but only with rewards. This place is also open to visitors (by far the most visitors are Thai). This school is an example for many people who value animal love. Even if the owner tells you that the animals would be better off in nature. But when you see the fun that the monkeys clearly have during the demonstration, you realize that you can also treat animals this way.
An Asian who cares about animal welfare has yet to be born. The same goes for the environment.
The only thing WE can contribute to is the boycott of these kinds of events, AND show films from the background: how were those animals caught, how "trained", how are they cared for and ... what is their old age. This phenomenon can be combated by arousing horror. With that little bit of boycott.. there will be plenty of Russians, Chinese, Koreans, Taiwanese, etc. who will be happy to encourage these kinds of animal events. Just look at the ivory trade, bile from bears, rhinoceroses, skins from rare animals: there is a huge demand, especially from China.
Been to Guangzhou, Xiamen, Zhangzhou and Nanning in 2009, also in a very large park. What struck me: NOT ONE bird seen, except really in the countryside: about 4. Otherwise NOTHING at all.
I hope you're a vegetarian, otherwise you won't be able to look at yourself in the mirror without hating yourself.
Incidentally, quite a lot of Thai people love their animals and take good care of them.
But Thailand is not yet at the level to properly care for its own population.
Animals are often even worse off.
You should not compare the Thai who exploit animals for tourism with the other Thai.
Those people will often have the same attitude as the slaughterer in the slaughterhouse.
How much will that piece of meat cost me?
I am also convinced that not every farmer treats his animals badly.
That seems to me to be a risky business, especially in the case of elephants.
Glad that this is being paid attention to. Personally I would never make such rides, I don't visit a zoo either.
I've been coming to the land of the “smile” a few times a year for about twenty years now.
Very recently I was in Chiang Mai and visited an elephant camp by chance. Sad, very sad how these animals are treated there. These elephants have to perform all the tricks you can expect in a circus. Animals that are a bit slower or unwilling to deal with the prod. I have also seen a young elephant being trained in a cage that was smaller than the animal itself. Horrible to see. But of course tourists don't get to see these kinds of scenes.
I also visited an elephant hospital. Great to see how sick or crippled elephants are treated. But is it a tourist attraction again? As a visitor you pay a hefty entrance fee, but what are these revenues spent on? Next to it was a training center for elephants. You can imagine what this training remembers.
In 1978 I was already confronted with scenes like this and during that time nothing or hardly anything has changed. The Thai will not change this because it is their income.
Only the tourist can do something about it, and that starts with the travel organizations. Good information is in order here. Show a video of how a young elephant, after the mother has been shot, is trained for tourist attractions.
The problem also lies with organized trips. An elephant ride or a circus performance is almost always included in the itinerary.
So start with the travel companies, that is where the basis for change lies.
There must indeed come an end , I think it is animal abuse ,
We were in Thailand last year, and when you see what they do to the monkeys, it's crazy for words, you just throw it in your lap to take a picture
No one should do this to any animal!!!!
Let's accept that there is a different mentality here with regard to animals, why do we kill pigs and chickens to eat with the greatest of ease and are we whining about something that was always a normal thing here, and let's face it, that there a party for the animals can exist in the Netherlands, I am ashamed of that here.
Arjen wrote;
“The first puppy that likes the first lessons has yet to be born.” I've never heard greater nonsense. Have trained thousands and 99 percent really like the first lesson. Must add that we only trained by means of reward, with the so-called clicker
I therefore think that attention should be paid to this. Promote animal events that are known for animal-friendly training and good animal treatment. You won't succeed in banning the shows in Thailand anyway and if Thais start to see the benefits of becoming more animal-friendly, because they get more customers, they might convert. And this could then start with making the travel companies aware of the differences.
Groet
He
Just a question? Are you that Han Wouters who had an MG dog school in Spaarnwoude?
Immediately stop all tourist attractions where animals are used (read abused).
Elephant calves and tiger cubs are taken away from their parents at an early age because they can still learn tricks. The parents of course resist and are simply shot.
As long as tourists in Thailand go to see or participate in these kinds of attractions, this animal cruelty will never stop and the crime will continue........
So stop right away……!!!!!!!
In Pattaya I visited the Nong Nooch botanical garden on the advice of a Thai. I was deeply shocked when I saw a tiger tied there by the neck on a 30 cm short chain that forced the animal to lie on its side. The eye contact with the tiger was deep and conveyed real sadness, as if the animal was begging for help. I had to restrain myself from untying it…. The animal was there so that visitors could take a picture with it for 100 Baht. Of course I did not visit the elephant show and after a short visit to the botanical garden I quickly left. What a disappointment. I feel bad every time I think about it.
I also agree with the statement in principle. But on the other hand, what is the alternative for these elephants and mahouts. All elephants to the Elephant Nature Park in Chiang Mai? Well then the entrance price will rise to 5000 Baht or so!! I don't think many people will go there then! So end ENP!
Same for the tigers in the famous Tiger Temple in Kanchanaburi. Back into the wild, where they no longer have room to live or are hunted by poachers and body parts are sold to the Chinese for a lot of money. Or all in a zoo, but then the question remains whether they are treated well there.
Again, I agree with this statement, but please come up with good alternatives!
Immediately stop all tourist attractions involving animals. Tourists should NOT pay more to see shows or ride an elephant. Elephant calves and tiger cubs are taken away from their parents in their first year of life, because they can still learn tricks. The parents of these young animals naturally fight for their child and are then simply killed.
Wild animals belong in the jungle and are not there to please humans. If the tourists stop paying, sooner or later the Thai will stop abusing defenseless animals….
When I was in Thailand for the first time I also took an elephant ride. Because I thought they were well taken care of. But I have read several times and seen on TV that that is not the case. So I am against the shows with monkeys, tigers, elephants and other animals.
What about horse racing in the Netherlands and England? What's the point of that? Yes for the “poop people” who go there to get rich. It's only about one thing and that's money. How are these animals treated? See them “stand” on the horses to whip the horse to run fast. But people like that don't care about that. An animal belongs in nature, elephant, tiger, etc. But the thinking of some people is very simple. I don't care about it; as long as it makes me feel better.
That's my idea. So elephant and tiger back to nature and the horse in the pasture. Just abolish animals in a circus.
And what are we going to do with the cows, pigs and chickens that are dragged back and forth across Europe every day to be slaughtered as cheaply as possible?
I mean the horse in the meadow sounds very nice, of course, but where do we put all those cows?
We don't have that much whey and we don't have that much yard to let those chickens free range.
If I'm right, pigs are even more intelligent than dogs.
And they are simply viewed as ham and bacon.
Have you ever seen how a police dog is trained in the Netherlands?
He is tied to a rope of 30 to 40 meters and becomes a so-called crook
sent.
If he is called back after about 30 meters, because the crook is standing still, the dog has to
stop and return to his boss. If he does not, he will be launched with a somersault
because the rope is short.
Shouldn't we first make sure we have it all right?
Before we accuse others with our wealth, most of them barely eatable
for working days of 12 hours or more.
That police dog training in the Netherlands and/or Belgium is apparently carried out in a beastly manner, is not an argument for not protecting the elephant, and not only in Thailand? It is precisely from civilizations such as those of the Low Countries that you should expect broader views.
I didn't mean to say that if they abuse some animals in the Netherlands, they can also do it in the rest of the world. I am 100% against it.
But in the 13 times I've been to Thailand I've never seen it. Also think about the dogs in Thailand, they run free.
Here they all have to be on a leash, don't you think they prefer to walk loose.
I read that a tiger there on a leash is animal abuse, is that a Netherlands
not so with a dog. Sometimes I let him loose in the woods, look how happy he is.
Did the first dog actually come from a family, or from nature?
I have now been to Thailand for a month about 4 times. First time on a jungle tour on an elephant. Went to the Zoo and had a photo with a tiger, then visited a Cobra farm in Nam Phong.
Meeting the elephants in Surin was fantastic! Haven't really seen much animal suffering, so I think let those people earn their living too, it's so easy to point at someone else and force your opinion on it. Look at the Middle East what will become of it.
” Just a question? Are you that Han Wouters who had an MG dog school in Spaarnwoude?”
Khun Peter. do we know each other? I stopped taking it 3 years ago.
As for the statement; Banning is pointless, then it becomes illegal and you lose sight. Try to get it more pet friendly which can work if the owners benefit from it.
And regarding Henk van Berlo's comment about police dog training; this won't stop either so try to find other ways. 5 years ago, the Gaus organization delivered the first police dog that was trained completely animal-friendly by means of reward. No more jerking, no more power bands.
It's a bit of a long process before this gets through to everyone, but I think it's the only way. You cannot take away their livelihood from people in Thailand, try to improve the situation for the animals, that can be successful.
Groet
He
Yes, we know each other. Animal Protection Apeldoorn. Obedient domestic dog. I'll email you.
Agree with the statement. Wild animals belong in nature and we must stay away from them.
But… what happens to this statement and the reactions?
I think that we should get involved when it comes to animal welfare, because animals cannot stand up for themselves.
I also made an elephant ride myself years ago and I deeply regret it and will therefore never do it again.
My daughter also comes to Thailand every year, but will never ever ride an elephant.
Well, I would like to see what would happen if we released those animals in, for example, a large reserve …….. I think in a period of six months, those tigers, elephants, etc, will be gone. I regularly see a mahout walking around with his elephant and a young elephant in our village, I don't think there is anything wrong. A piece of advice I went to an elephant camp in Chiang Mai years ago that was very much worth it.
I believe that the government has introduced some restrictions regarding elephants in BKK, yes, I think that is correct. Sri Racha tiger zoo Tiger temple etc etc ?????? If the children have to see a tiger or elephant from a picture, I believe to a certain extent a good and healthy file is built up, because if this does not happen, they can shake it, in other words, bye bye tiger bye bye elephant.
Just to add something, 2 years ago we had high water in Phimai and the surrounding area, now there was a crocodile farm between Phimai and Nonsung that all ended up in "the wild" due to the high water, no trace of these crocodiles has been found, so very very probably delicious on the bbq of the local population.
So what's better?? release here in nature ?? elephants tigers cobras monkeys you name it releasing here into nature is asking for trouble, here the Thais or rather Asians have no idea what animal protection means that is something Western and that will only come into the spotlight in 20 or 30 years and get just like in the Netherlands, we have a Thai party for the animals 555.
You cannot see from the outside of an elephant, calf or mahout what has been done to make those animals calm and obedient. For example, a calf is chained to a fence for days without being able to move a muscle, until the beast of misery gives no trace of life. This is followed by more “training” until every stubbornness has disappeared from that beast. This may be known by now to the general public. All those who write that they have been coming to Thailand for years and have seen nothing, opt for immediate convenience and lull themselves to sleep. Indeed, they may not have seen anything. These so-called training courses do not take place in the courtyard of a village. Hypocrisy trumps! Furthermore, the discussion is not about whether tigers and crocodiles should be released into the wild, nor about all the cows, pigs and chickens that are driven around in Europe. What matters is the principle that you now approach animals differently based on civilized standards and take care of their well-being. The fact that this principle is less or not known outside the Netherlands/Europe is not a license not to adhere to it yourself.
Basically don't do it and ban it. Those animals are severely traumatized and abused before they can even get to humans. Most animals can never go back to nature because they can no longer save themselves. I read a simple response that it's not too bad…. Well, just keep your eyes closed. It's not easy and as long as the government also closes its eyes or looks the other way for a fee, you can't handle it properly either. Good information, tackling corruption and if possible breeding in captivity. The population now hardly knows any better that everything that moves can be caught and traded. That's where the problem starts. Moreover, they earn their living with it. So you also have to look for alternatives.
You also have the responsible authorities who are happy to be paid at all levels and get away with it. If that is maintained, it is mopping with the tap open. Discourage and punish severely, but that applies to the whole corruption in Thailand
And finally, you may be able to overcome some of it by having good breeding programs that maintain the population in captivity. That is not good, but still better than taking those wild animals away from their parents, who in many cases are killed.
There is simply no need to barbarically tame animals just for our pleasure. Here in Isaan, begging elephants regularly come with “guidance”; it is scandalous how those animals are treated; really and truly ! I sometimes spank an uncooperative horse, but never thrash. That does happen with elephants, not to mention how the average Thai (not all) treat their pets. That's not good for us. So stop that nonsense and show respect for the animals. After the ban on cutting down hardwood, many elephants became unemployed, I was told, and I am not against the fact that these animals are kept. But no abuse and other nonsense that those animals cannot tolerate. A pet is okay if it is treated with respect; whatever that may be.
Dear jm,
It is not about releasing all animals back into the wild. But all the tricks that animals have to learn in order to be able to and may continue to live must come to an end.
Have you been to an elephant camp in Chiang mai? Well, me recently me too. My experiences are different, it disgusts me.
And is it necessary to take pictures of a tiger with a child in its claws? That is possible at the tiger temple, but with drugged tigers. And from the peppered entrance, the Buddha priest can buy a Nikon. I speak from experience.
And the Sri Racha tiger zoo is an open zoo where the animals roam freely as far as possible. At least I didn't see any drugged tigers.
The suffering of these creatures must come to an end, it is unworthy and appalling how these animals are mentally and physically abused.
Tigers who are stunned on a chain, tourists who want to touch a tiger take a picture with it because it is such a nice picture.
By the way there are still plenty of tourists who think it's for the conservation of the tigers ppphhh bullshit and then the elephants
Tros the tourists show their holiday photos in the Netherlands or wherever to their family or friends circle very bad thing and that is my opinion
Completely agree with the statement. Great to read that almost all commentators accept this statement. As tourists, we naturally have to deal with the offers of animals for entertainment, after all, we boycott these "attractions" and this will soon come to an end. In other words. our visit initiates these reprehensible activities. Animals, plants, people originated from the primordial soup of amino acids. The nucleotides [that make up DNA] in every life form are identical. As a staunch supporter of Darwin's theory of evolution, there is no objective basis whatsoever for favoring one species of life over another.
Been coming to Thailand and other Asian countries for many years with my wife. Have ridden elephant many times and always visit Chang Mai Zoo.
In 2010 we took our granddaughter and daughter to Thailand. The four of us stayed in an elephant camp near Chiang Mai for a whole day and were taught about the handling and life of elephants and of course we went for a ride with the elephant (just on the back or neck without a box). A wonderful day between and with the elephants and my grandchild of (then) 10 years enjoyed it and so did we.
We wish that every child from Europe could experience that. The big pandas in Chiang Mai are also a wonderful experience every time. We are therefore NOT in favor of closing the type of elephant camps and zoos we are talking about, but rather promoting them. And that's what we do with friends and family who are going to Thailand.
I would say boycott such attractions! Horrible what is done to these animals.
I am immensely irritated by those (fat) farang who want to indulge their pleasure on such an elephant that is terribly abused and in pain.
Here's a call to all foreigners who plan to visit such a fairground attraction: Stop this and don't hurt these animals!
totally agree with the statement. I'm sitting on a terrace in the middle of Bangkok, an elephant passes by. When I visit the floating market in Huan Hin, you can pet an elephant at the entrance. Completely fed up with this kind of animal exploitation. Last year, tour Cambodia, had an elephant ride removed from the travel program. Are you afraid of elephants, the travel agency asked… Nope, animal welfare. So anything that has to do with bullying animals, just walk around with a bow, don't give money to it, don't book, have it removed from the program. It is good that a large number of travel organizations in the Netherlands are now taking this into account.
Weird fritz I thought that mahouts and their elephants were not welcome in the center of Bangkok for a number of years.
But what to say about children who sell flowers until well into the night on school days in tourist areas or who are exploited by begging gangs.
Your fellow countryman Edwien Wiek has also been caught a few times because of his campaigns in Thailand about animal suffering.
@ Steven, Fritz As often, there is a lack of enforcement, because Bangkok Post reported in 2010:
Forbidden to feed elephants
Feeding elephants has been banned in Bangkok since July 10.000, under penalty of a fine of 1 baht. Earlier, the municipality had already issued a ban on elephants traveling through the city. Violation is punishable by imprisonment for 6 months or a fine of 10.000 baht. The municipality has also set up a project with the aim of returning the elephants to the provinces where they come from. Previously, about 200 mahouts traveled through the city with their elephants. They sold corn on the cob, which the elephants were more than happy to munch on. No elephants have been sighted since the ban came into effect; in surrounding provinces.
In my opinion it is nonsense and even incorrect to remove everything with animals from the programs. There are places that really show how to deal with animals properly. Such as the aforementioned elephantsworld in Chiang Mai, which mainly focuses on foreign visitors, and the aforementioned monkey school in Ssurat-Thani. Which focuses on Thais in advance. School classes often visit the school and do not have to pay for a demonstration.
Maybe try to avoid the rides, or the places that have the word "show" in their name. The other places deserve closer scrutiny before you scrap them outright.
Exceptions confirm the rule. Dick: As far as I know it is forbidden to let elephants beg in all towns/villages. Last year an elephant walked through my ampher. Visit to the police yielded the following comment; “You are right, this is forbidden. However, if we pick them up, we are responsible for the elephant. This must be taken to an elephant-friendly place, which entails 30.000 baht in transport costs. We simply don't have the budget for that." The same happened to me in the nearby provincial capital.