Statement of the week: Going back to the Netherlands is more difficult than leaving for Thailand
To be honest, when I got to know Thailand fairly open-minded, I fell in love with the country. Although love is blind, I am still glad that I wear contact lenses and that I can still see everything reasonably clearly. No emigration plans for me, not now and probably not ever.
Thailand is a fantastic country to spend the winter or enjoy a wonderful holiday, but that's about it, at least for me.
In the meantime, conversations with Dutch people who have left for Thailand show that it is quite disappointing for a number of people and that they actually regret their choice at the time. They nevertheless resign themselves to their fate because they say they cannot go back. The enthusiasm for Thailand has now turned into cynicism. They become melancholy and do nothing but shed on the land.
I myself think that it is because many male emigrants have not specifically chosen Thailand. They say that, but it is often a fallacy. Most move to Thailand for a relationship. When you enter into a relationship with a Thai woman (or man) who does not want to or cannot live in the Netherlands, there is no other option but to move to Thailand. You will then receive the country as a gift.
Although the love for the partner and being together makes up for a lot, people are still mistaken about the big differences. There is a language barrier, a different culture, corruption, many mandatory rules for foreigners and discrimination (after all, you remain a foreigner).
And let's be honest. Do you know Dutch people who are fully integrated into Thai society? Well, not me.
Strangely enough, a number of them are therefore more or less imprisoned in Thailand. They cannot return to the Netherlands because they have burned all the ships behind them. Talking about it with other expats is also difficult. There is a taboo on this topic.
Especially when you are a bit older, the step to return to your home country is huge. Some don't have the energy, others don't have the money. Someone said to me: I have almost all my savings in a house in the name of my Thai wife. She does not want to take me to the Netherlands, what should I do?”.
In my opinion, returning to the Netherlands is more difficult than emigrating to Thailand. When you leave, you are seen as an adventurer chasing his dreams. If you come back, you are still a kind of loser who is one illusion poorer (which is of course unjustified).
Today's thesis is therefore that returning to the Netherlands is much more difficult than leaving. What do you think about that?
I have mentioned it before on this site and know that there are several Dutch people who are not happy here and actually want to return. There is no other way because it has everything to do with the basis on which you emigrate and what subsequently happens in Thailand. Are you sufficiently prepared, do you know yourself well enough to take this step and what will come your way if you are already here? Life does not stand still and changes all the time. Measures taken by the government in the Netherlands and Europe and other authorities have a major influence on your position in Thailand. Can you accept that there are completely different reactions in certain areas in Thailand? Well, I could go on and on. I think the best thing would be to do half and half. About six or 8 months to Thailand during the cold period in the Netherlands and then refueling in the Netherlands in the summer. This is not a given for everyone and of course it has everything to do with finances. A realistic view of life is always best and one should certainly not wear rose-tinted glasses.
The basis on which you emigrate is different for everyone.
You have something here and you leave something there.
I wouldn't be able to go back to the Netherlands myself, not because of money but because of the climate.
That was and is my basis for going to Thailand.
It is a sum of pluses and minuses and as long as it remains a plus you can live happily here.
That a lot of people emigrate to Thailand on a narrow basis and that then the minuses become greater than the pluses doesn't surprise me.
Put on rose-colored glasses on holiday and the reality is often different because on holiday you don't get to know a country and its inhabitants,
After 6 years of 8 months in Thailand and 4 months in the Netherlands, I finally made the decision
to live here and to this day I have no regrets.
On the contrary, I should have done it much sooner.
Would I like to return to the Netherlands?
No not really, but never say never.
Let's not forget that everyone has different circumstances and reasons for whether or not to emigrate.
I completely agree with you that when you come for a holiday, a country is always different when you stay there for a longer period of time. I think as you have done it is good to get to know a country first and only then make a decision that is so important.
The “nail on the head” Martin *****
Indeed, everything depends on the basis on which you immigrate ( = the reasons ).
Roads that go through for the country where you stay (= live), then the choice is not that difficult to make.
After a while you also become more involved in current affairs & social and political life… and so I often have to “swallow” (read “control me”).
The behavior of the Thais in everyday traffic irritates me immensely (I drive about 30.000 km / year by car & also cycle daily)
Being politically “impotent” is also very frustrating for me.
"Freedom of expression" ... no so ... certainly not now after the "Coup"!
The corruption and arrogant behavior of the " elite " is often an eyesore .
Getting up under a low cloud cover that ruined my mood ... that is thankfully a thing of the past ... and that is a HUGE plus , isn't it ?
The politeness of the Thais, and their high demands in terms of clothing & hygiene ... a relief after 15 years in Africa :)))
Regards :)))
Jacques that is exactly what I do .. I live and live 10 months a year in Thailand (have been deregistered from the Netherlands for years) and go to the Netherlands 2 months a year where I still own a house … I have absolutely no problem in this way to return to Holland or possibly to stay in Thailand….as long as I feel well I will stay in Thailand on the other hand I don't feel like living in Thailand as a dementia or Alzheimer patient or something like that…if that happens to me I do feel more at home in the Netherlands…so to follow the statement ..absolutely not more difficult to return to the Netherlands ..in my case, settling in Thailand was more difficult
Piet
I think the best thing would be to do half and half. About six or 8 months to Thailand in the cold period of the Netherlands and then refuel in the Netherlands in the summer.
Rooie Rob has been doing what Jacques says in the above paragraph for about eight years (has considered emigrating to Thailand), 3 months NL / 3 months Thailand. In recent years together with his Thai wife, who has now become so established in NL that she has decided (not Rooie Rob) that her / our domicile address has now become NL (everything has already been arranged). Certainly not for financial reasons, on the contrary!
Indeed, if you are lucky enough, like me, to live in Thailand for 4 months (Dutch winter time) and 8 in the Netherlands, you are especially privileged since my Thai girlfriend has a residence permit and is also having a great time in the Netherlands.
When I am in Thailand and have contact with expats, I notice that so much is issued to Thailand. I didn't understand why those people stay here.
After reading this piece, it has become a bit clearer to me. I know people who have taken the plunge. They now have to live on social assistance, but with a little good will this is possible.
So people if you are really unhappy there bite the bullet and come back.
Dear TOG, I completely agree with you. I have always heard so much “Farang” said about Thailand, but did someone force them to go to Thailand? Have any of the Thai governments ever invited them? Will Thailand go to shit if we were no longer there?
I have decided that I am better off in Thailand than in the Netherlands and I am the one who has to adapt to the cultural difference, values and norms, rules and laws, corruption and crime is everywhere and in Thailand I think you have less to do. deal with discrimination. The 'Dutch people' as I knew them 25 years earlier can no longer be found. The Netherlands is no longer the Netherlands as it used to be. It is the 'EU' that determines most. Dutch people are increasingly less able to determine and influence themselves.
I will be getting my pension soon and thought for a moment, why am I only focusing on Thailand? I could live anywhere and have compared all former Dutch Colonies, Countries around Thailand etc. but having considered everything I have come to the conclusion that Thailand is not 'perfect' but still far from the best option to live with a modest income to live reasonably comfortably and become happy.
Completely agree with you Rien, you speak straight from my heart because I think exactly the same. Thailand is certainly not perfect, but I can assure everyone that the Netherlands has also changed a lot in recent decades. But everyone has to make his / her own choice and Thailand is really disappointing, and if you personally have major problems with the situations in this country, the way back to the Netherlands is always an option. I personally still think it's great that I can and can live in Thailand and have no plans to change this.
I have been going to Thailand very regularly for about 15 years now, sometimes four times a year and now I have a realistic view. I didn't have that the first few years. Then I wanted to stay in Thailand permanently. That has since been corrected. I still love going there but I love going back (almost) as much. What I now know for sure is that I would not want to live permanently in Thailand. Part of the winter months in Thailand and the rest of the year in Europe seems to me to be the ideal situation. That's it for me anyway.
If you really want to go back, you should be able to. I do not consider the emotional here with regard to a possible relationship.
Financial matters should not be a problem, since to legally reside here, for example as a retiree, you must have savings of 400 / 000 or equivalent income. Then only good return planning is important.
My insight is based on Belgium, where you are immediately restored to your social rights as soon as you set foot on Belgian soil, including sickness insurance.
I would call the biggest problem finding a home from Thailand, although the internet does exist, I guess... or not?
Although I am happy here in Thailand, I have decided that if I ever reach the age of 70, I will do Belgium and Thailand part-time, with registration again in Belgium, in order to
A) From the age of 70, the Thai hospitalization insurances stop, or become unaffordable in my opinion, as a Belgian resident I then fall back into the health insurance scheme (sickness law for Dutch people) and as a tourist (that's me) I can enjoy to be insured in Thailand for a max. admission to hospital for 3 months per year (Eurocross.) against the simple health insurance cost of 70 euros currently...
However, it will cost me 2 tickets per year to be in Thailand for 6 months (or more, since we Belgians are allowed to go abroad for 1 year without being debited in terms of address, but please report to the population office in advance.
B) I can't bear to think that I can't get euthanasia here in hospital in a miserable final phase of my life because of Budhism…not allowing this.
C) Having no health problems, I realize that as I get older these will undoubtedly occur to a lesser or greater extent... an old car also needs to be regularly checked for technical inspection... so we are ready for that, and then the best choice for me is Belgium, and Thailand for enjoying ..... as a part-time tourist, part-time expat for 2 times Eva economy ticket / year, nice isn't it..
People plan before you emigrate
You are very optimistic about being able to return with a fortune of 400.000 Baht.
If you can already find a home.
You have to fly back, maybe together with partner and children.
You may need to return goods.
Then when you get back you may have a house waiting for you, but it probably doesn't contain anything at all.
You may be able to get some furniture reasonably cheaply through the thrift stores, but you will probably have to have curtains made and also the floor covering.
I suspect that 400.000 Baht will not be enough for that.
Not a very pleasant prospect in my opinion.
Dear Jacques,
It seems to me a story about compatriots who, penniless, consider what is best. They probably have an income in Thailand or receive it from the Netherlands? I was forced to return in 2011 because I was blackmailed. My 3 children that I raised alone for 13 years after separating from their gambling mother were grown up (enough) and my old mother in the Netherlands told me to be so lonely…. I had my own company in Thailand, which I left because I had problems with bad people there. So I had no income and had just turned 60 years old. After consultation with my children, I decided to return to the Netherlands. I had already lost everything during the divorce and the house had already been lost to gambling by the ex-in-laws. By raising the children only with income that I had to generate in Thailand, I had not seen a chance to save anything. My car was registered to my daughter. I was only allowed to take 20 kg of luggage with me. My son's old laptop came with me, I left my last money, all my photo albums and many other personal belongings, took an old cell phone with me and just enough money to pay for the trip.
So I would be 'homeless' in the Netherlands and without an income! After arriving at Schiphol I had just enough money to put a new SIM card and some calling credit in my mobile phone. I could have taken the Schiphol taxi to my mother in Brabant and she would have paid the costs, but I did not want to burden her or infringe on her social life, including gossip about me as a destitute pauper with hanging legs on old age returned.
So I had no money and walked to the office of the Salvation Army on the bleak Saturday afternoon around 14.00 p.m., which was supposed to be open. i had no coat and it was cold and i found the office under an overpass clogged with shutters and doors locked! I went back to the arrivals hall to the Information Desk. It was very quiet at Schiphol so I got the chance to tell my story. They called for me and found a Pastor on the 1st floor who would come to me. He was very friendly and was about to go home but took me to his office for a while. He asked where I had last lived in the Netherlands, but nobody could be reached in that area or there was no room for me. Eventually he contacted the night shelter for the homeless in Venlo and they said I should come. That friendly pastor gave me 50 Euros and was able to buy a train ticket to Venlo. I finally found the night shelter after walking for hours with my luggage and spent the night there (that's another story)
I had the attitude of, I am Dutch and I also have my rights. I was 39 when I left for Thailand. On the 1st Monday morning I went to the local Municipality store to register and get a postal address. Everything went wrong and it took about 2 months before I received benefits and could start looking for a room. The Municipality did pay for my overnight stays at the Night Shelter. As a former social worker with an HBO-iw diploma, I was able to gain some experience in an unattractive environment, but I survived. From a room I was in a nice house pretty quickly. I had a heart attack, worn neck and vertebrae reared their heads (the cold weather!). I came back to the Netherlands without medication and 1 year later I was full of medication. I no longer recognized the Netherlands and could no longer identify with the average Dutchman. My GP has helped me to recover well, I have been able to get my old age pension and pension in order and I yearn to go back to Thailand as soon as I receive my pension. I'm still here in a nice house, close to shops, nicely decorated, all conveniences. Lately I've been a bit withdrawn from the outside world. I'm the type who makes contact easily, that's not a problem but I know I'm going and saying goodbye is always painful to me, that's why I didn't get into relationships anymore. My 88 year old mother has a 'new' boyfriend and is no longer lonely. My daughters in Thailand miss me and I met a friend online who is also waiting for me. I am independent in Thailand with my car, my fixed income, I speak the language well enough and know Thailand like the back of my hand. I can live where I want and know what I can afford. I can go find the place where I feel the best and build a social life there again with or without my 2 lovely daughters. So it is easy for me to go back to Thailand. Actually, I'm going back home! My doctor says that my minor ailments I spoke to him about will be cured very quickly in Thailand ha, ha… I have been able to keep myself informed about Thailand through the Thailand blog and I know what to expect. In any case, it is always better (for me) than in the Netherlands where I have been for 5 years now but have become 15 years older.
Dear Rien,
You have experienced and gained experience and knowledge of yourself and if this is what your heart tells you and your mind supports it then it is a well-considered choice and I wish you all the best in the future in Thailand.
What a fantastic country the Netherlands is. With 39 years left for that fantastic Thailand. After many years destitute, back to the motherland. Only after 2 months (what a shame!) you finally get benefits and a house. Heart attack, worn neck and back vertebrae sustained in that cold Netherlands and a doctor who helps you fantastically. Who paid for all that? Yes, the taxpayer in the Netherlands to which I also belong. Fifteen years older in that horrible Netherlands, man, what a hard time you had. I am very happy for you that you are able to return to Thailand and sincerely hope that you never have to return to that horribly cold climate. You may be able to apply for Thai nationality because then, as a 60-year-old, you are entitled to no less than 600 baht per month. Wishing you lots of success and happiness in Thailand. Here in the Netherlands we are burdened by a horrible climate and live with worn-out limbs and pay a very good tax to receive and support compatriots who have fallen aground elsewhere with love in the motherland.
Moderator: please don't chat.
Hi Rien, a beautiful and honest story. Brave as you accept reality, but that is also the only way out for improvement. Immersing yourself in the role of victim of circumstances never helps anything. I wish that others in similar circumstances also have the courage and strength to act and go, instead of passively withering and bemoaning their fate to each and every one.
Cheers man, many more beautiful years in Thailand. Gr. Paul
About 11 years ago I also considered going back to the Netherlands. When I visited the Netherlands I listed everything. It seemed very difficult to me and even harder to digest for my Thai partner, who had her children and grandchildren here.
Then I decided to stay and now I can only conclude that it was a good decision. If I go to the Netherlands now and then, I want to go back to Thailand soon.
Dear people,
I live in Laos, but I still want to respond. We made the choice to emigrate to Laos in 2010. My wife had previously been in the Netherlands for 5 years and speaks good Dutch and had a job. I was able to stop working early through an arrangement. who gave me enough money to live in Laos until my pre-retirement.
I thought I had everything sorted out well. Everything has been properly calculated financially, etc., etc. THEN there will be a situation where the Thai Bath * (and also the Lao Kip) becomes a lot less valuable compared to the Euro. I pay tax in the Netherlands on my entire income (there is no tax treaty with Laos) and it also rose sharply during that period. So... net less to spend. I had calculated part of it, but certainly not everything. And now it comes......
We have a son who is now 6 years old. We want to give him good, if not the best, preparation for his future. After all, there will come a time when we can no longer care for him and then it will of course be nice for him if he has a good job with the same income. And that's where it's pinching now.....
Where we live is actually not a really good school. ( he is now at the best school here ) THAT is now the reason for us to consider returning to the Netherlands. (or possibly move to Vientiane, the capital of Laos with a number of international schools) For me and my wife it is not necessary, but for our son I think it is best if we go back to the Netherlands. He has much more options there than in Laos (and I think also in Thailand)
Many farangs used to live in Europe with their Thai wife, and were usually the main person with whom things were discussed. Although people do not like to hear the word dependency, the farang husband was usually the only person with whom they shared joys and sorrows. Aside from perhaps a few girlfriends, much was often done with the husband. Many farangs, I don't want to generalize, assume that this same life will continue in Thailand, and notice that they are now suddenly playing in a completely different League. The Thai husband feels less dependent because she can move in familiar territory, and will therefore increasingly be found with her family or friends that she already knew from the past. The farang is now in the same position as his Thai wife before in Europe, and is actually, if he doesn't want his world to get smaller and smaller, obliged to learn Thai. Furthermore, he often starts to see the difference in his familiar homeland and his new environment in Thailand, and notices that living permanently is something different from going on holiday. The difference in road safety, the lack of a real democracy, the high health insurance, and the realization that one is only a guest, with very few rights, and mostly only duties, do not give me a good feeling, to have all ships behind me for this. to burn. A 50/50 solution in which one can spend the winter time in Thailand, for example, and summer time in Europe, are a better option for me personally. I know many expats who are honest and admit that they have imagined their new life differently, although there are also many who think everything is fine and want nothing else. Unfortunately, this last group also includes many who try to justify everything so that no one thinks that they have actually made a mistake.
I also moved to Thailand more than 10 years ago because of love, after 10 years I moved back to NL and this is the best thing I've done in the past 10 years. Thailand is nice for a long holiday or on a 50/50 basis but burn your ships and stay there I advise no one.
It largely depends on the financial possibilities. You don't have to worry about the costs of groceries in the Netherlands. Some examples (ok, offers, but there are every week): A kilo of excellent pork fricandeau: € 6.99, crate of Heineken € 8.98 (= 15 baht per bottle), 10 eggs for € 1.49, all cheaper than in Thailand. Cigarettes are something else….
The problems are more in finding an affordable rental home, if you have no money to buy something, the taxes and municipal levies, fixed fees from utilities, basic insurance + deductible that you can no longer rely on outside Europe from 1 January, while you have to pay a premium, if necessary. costs of a car (especially insurance, tax, MOT, maintenance, fines, parking fees), relatively high internet and cable and telephone costs, greater need for (more expensive) clothing and footwear, the high bill that 'a day out' produces, to even but not to mention a night out.
The result is that many people who do not have built-up capital or a generous fixed income are just as 'trapped' in the Netherlands after remigration as they were in Thailand. And although you should of course not care about the reaction of your 'neighbors', it does become a bit embarrassing if you can no longer even go on holiday to Thailand for three weeks.
The temptation is then great to choose to stay in Thailand.
And then you often hear that a Thai is all about money………..
People who have stayed abroad for a longer period of time and then return to their country of origin may not only have to deal with practical problems such as housing, but also have problems with getting used to the values/norms of their home country because these also change, making you think at home. but you have to reintegrate back into your country of origin.
An interesting statement and I think it is correct. At least for me.
Next year my son and I will leave for the Netherlands. This has mainly to do with my son's future but also, to a lesser extent, with my dissatisfaction with the direction in which this country is moving.
When I came to live in Thailand 15 years ago, it was nice: a new challenge. I liked everything equally. I immersed myself in the language, learned about the history of Thailand and did a lot of volunteer and charity work. I closed Thailand in my heart.
Since then, and especially in the last five years, I have increasingly realized that Thailand is not the paradise I thought it was at the time, in fact, that it has an extremely dark side. The Thais themselves suffer most from this.
My son is well aware that he will never be mistaken for a full Thai and that many career opportunities are closed to him. He doesn't just want to get his white skin in the entertainment industry.
Returning to the Netherlands therefore feels like a small defeat. I don't hate the Netherlands. But it's not new or exciting to return. I really dread all the hassle: the move itself (what do I do with all my books?), renting and furnishing a house, making new friends, etc. etc.
It's hard to turn back. I know it's the right decision but it hurts. I will miss the ordinary Thai, the nature and the food. Partir, c'est mourir un peu.
I have never been able to understand that people move to a country where you as a foreigner have no rights, in this case Thailand. The junta has also done away with human rights.
You cannot even formally emigrate to Thailand because you will never become a permanent resident of the country. You have to report every 90 days and then you can stay for a while (if you meet the conditions). In the Netherlands, some criminals must report in the same way. You are not allowed to buy land, you have to pay double at attractions. No social services. You are not allowed to work, you are not allowed to vote, you are not allowed to spend anything in Thailand except for money. As a foreigner you are a second-class citizen there.
Again, a fantastic country for a temporary stay and I met my dear girlfriend there, but living there… that's a different story.
If you go back to the Netherlands, that is a lot of hassle. I understand that you are against that. I wonder how your son will fare in the Netherlands. If he can't get used to it, then you have another problem. Then back to Thailand…?
My son has promised to write a report about his experiences after a year in the Netherlands, that land of manure and fog, to post on Thailand Blog and perhaps elsewhere as well. It is of course also possible that he has already returned to Thailand...
I would already like to note that he writes as a person and not as a Thai or Dutchman. Comments such as 'he writes with Thai or Western glasses' are not appreciated.
Here he is an immigrant Thai and in the Netherlands an immigrant Dutchman. I'm getting tired of all those awards...
Chander gives the best examples…
Moderator: Please do not chat.
Your son will never be mistaken for a full Dutchman, and if he has sufficient other capacities, he can certainly find a nice job outside the entertainment industry in Thailand. He will also encounter bumps in the Netherlands.
And was the direction in which Thailand was moving 10 years ago so much more alarming than it is now?
You write that you know that returning to the Netherlands is the right decision, but I think you are still in doubt. I would still have doubts.
If it is a lot of books, you can simply send them by container. I estimate the costs unseen at a maximum of 2000 euros, including some furniture or other important matters.
Fransamsterdam
In Thailand, my son is often asked, "Are you Thai?" If he answers in the affirmative, people look skeptical. He must then sing the Thai national anthem or show his Thai ID card. Nice. He speaks fluent Thai and good Dutch. He says that he feels more accepted in the Netherlands. No one there asks him: 'Are you actually a real Dutchman?'
I think Khun Peter hits the nail on the head, I feel it now:
"As a foreigner you are a second-class citizen there." Incidentally, many Thais also have that feeling, in the Isaan, in the North and in the Deep South.
The question of whether you are a real Dutchman will not be asked here like that, but rather: where do you come from, what is meant to be interesting, but in the long run, especially if the person being questioned was born here, to come out. Perhaps the Thai is more nationalistic than the NLer.
I can understand Tino Kuis' decision to return to the Netherlands next year. It is not so much about the question of whether Thailand moves so much differently now than it did 10 years ago, but also about the experiences one gains if one lives permanently in a country for 15 years, which cannot be compared in any way. with a temporary holiday home. Moreover, most holidaymakers have no or at most little knowledge of the Thai language, so that one often has to rely on the well-known Thai smile, a few broken words of English, and a personal suspicion. The fact that the son is not regarded as a full Dutch citizen plays a completely unimportant role in his career opportunities if he has sufficient knowledge of the Dutch language. As a so-called loek krüng, many doors remain closed to his son, while this is no problem at all with sufficient qualities in the Netherlands. The fact that a return to the Netherlands feels like a defeat, I think has more to do with the fact that after 15 years lose many friendships that you have won, and that on the other hand, you personally cannot change the many abuses that undoubtedly prevail in the country that you loved so much. That a return to the Netherlands is not easy, and that people will encounter obstacles that cannot be denied, but they are in no way comparable to the discrimination that his son will experience for a lifetime in Thailand. Even if he has the quality, he has much better chances of good study opportunities in the Netherlands, and he will certainly not be viewed as an outsider like in Thailand.
Dear Tino Cross,
I think your decision is very wise.
If I now list a few well-known names, you will understand that your son can still be more successful in the Netherlands.
Humberto Tan, Jörgen Raymann, Najib Amhali, Ruud Gullit, Frank Rijkaard, Jandino Asporaat, Abutaleb, Yolanthe Sneijder-Cabau, Patty Brard.
These people are all Dutch immigrants.
Chander
The fact is that a tourist sees a lot but knows little. I also settled here with overwhelming enthusiasm about 8 years ago. Fortunately, I have always kept my permanent place with us. It is true that it is a small apartment, but I will remain registered there and stay insured there. After a few years you start to miss some things….the culture…..and as strange as it may sound after a certain time I sometimes start to miss the harsh cold wind…..sometimes I am sick and tired of that tropical heat. I have started to miss seasons, especially when they are pronounced. I also miss the variety of Europe….Thaland is the same everywhere…..additionally, you are somewhat stuck in the country itself and not so easily from one country travels to the other as in Europe (borderless visa etc). Also the fact that you never really make friends here. I used to live in South America for a year and there I had more friends in 1 year after 8 years. The friends we have are the white men who have Thai wives just like me. You never really bond with pure Thai couples. In Peru I regularly had to visit with my girlfriend with native people and was invited for something to eat, etc….never here.
So yes, I still like it especially to be here 70% of the time, but living here non-stop would be difficult for me……so once a year I go back to Europe alone for two months and a second time my wife goes mee.So yes I do follow the statement that just like me many people always stay here for the relationship ...... I myself try to get the best of both worlds (TH the weather the food and the prices) but always non stop in I wouldn't be able to do Thailand….it is too limited for me in most areas and Europe is too sweet for me.
My son (30) has been living and working in Thailand for several years, has married a sweet, intelligent, hard-working Thai and does NOT want to return to NL. Sometimes things go well, you see…
I have been living here permanently for 12 years now.
And so far I still like it.
At the time I had also considered going to the Netherlands sometimes and keeping my home.
But keeping a home in the Netherlands who will take care of it , and the fixed costs and maintenance , among other things ( painting outside ) , will also continue .
The last time I set foot on Dutch soil is now already 6 years ago due to the death of my mother.
I used to go every year to visit her .
The grass is always greener on the other side of the horizon.
In addition , every evening I still follow the daily news from the low countries .
Burning the car, receding the problem, also increasingly aggressive driving behavior etc etc.
And what I read then doesn't make you any happier, a real Dutch person will still exist in a few years.
And then about the political situation in Thailand and the dictatorship , what do the Dutch people think about their current government , would they rather be lost than rich if I follow the media and the many reactions .
You can't buy land in Thailand and some consider themselves second-class citizens.
I have no problem with that , because if I die soon I will not be able to own any land there , wherever I may go .
Thailand is not paradise far from it, but the Netherlands is ???
And then just sending a note in the mail every 90 days is a big problem.
And are the disease costs so high in Thailand .
Am currently due for cataract surgery which will take place in the coming weeks.
Just to mention as an example , for the 3 times preliminary investigation I had lost less than 5000 bath .
Operation amounts to around 40000 to 60000 baths.
And that in the Chiangmai Ram private hospital. No waiting lists, state-of-the-art equipment, friendly staff and good service.
Do you also find that in the Netherlands??
Home is where my bed is , and it is still here in Thailand for the time being .
Jan Beute.
After 15 years I plan to leave, but not 'back' to the Netherlands; I can live throughout the EU with a health policy according to EU standards, living according to EU standards, safety according to EU standards and more. I have not had a health insurance policy in Thailand since January 1, 1 when Dutch politicians took it away from me.
I leave my partner financially taken care of and look for the EU sun in the knowledge:
– Enjoyed 15 years (from the age of 55), nobody can take that away from me
– a new phase, no loss, failure or disappointment, but a new exciting step
– I have language skills from home, I can live anywhere and enjoy myself.
– fixed income until my death and I also leave something for my partner, whom I see every now and then.
– am happy now and that will not change.
But I would add: I fully integrated here, learned language and habits, and I will do that again later. Without integration into the new environment, you become a grump. Unfortunately, I see that every day around me. So when I leave here it's with a big smile.
Your story is my story.
For several years I have been using my summer months to build a tweed base from Thailand.
This one is in Northern Portugal, by the sea.
(I'm responding mainly because I like to be kept informed.)
This is an interesting and interesting topic.
This will also play out for me in a few years. Then I will retire.
I'm already making decisions.
I'm leaning more and more towards the winter option.
Half-half. Or one third/two thirds. That actually seems best to me.
Health insurance plays a very important role. If not the most important!
I've had a little trouble with my heart. Nothing to worry about now (I hope), but I can't assure my heart now.
And the premium in old age is also shockingly high.
One more comment:
This kind of discussion is for me a very great added value of Thailandblog.
"You don't have to have experienced everything yourself to be able to learn lessons."
I'm getting less and less naive!
I keep reading. Every day.
It's a tricky problem.
Thailand is changing quite a bit.
The Netherlands, the welfare state is also changing rapidly.
The EU is leaning more and more towards a dictatorship. the power lies in Brussels and the influence of the MEPs is nil.
In the Netherlands you will also have to deal with this more and more.
Just tell me, will people still recognize their own country or is there a good alternative outside of Thailand?
Have a lot of interest in the subject and also read comments with interest. For example, in the reaction of Piet, who says he still owns a house in the Netherlands. We also have this.
One thing I don't quite understand? Then why did you deregister from the Netherlands? Health insurance, among other things, and many other things.
Health insurance, as mentioned elsewhere, is indeed pricey. Could name more as many who also responded.
Will therefore prefer to continue to travel and stay outside the Netherlands, as long as my bones can lift me (just kidding) and go back to family in the Netherlands for a short time every so many months, but realize that this may be a luxury option.
Emigrate elsewhere, no
sabine
Dear Sabine
Deregistering from the Netherlands also means that I do not have to pay tax on my income from the Netherlands… you are right that this will end my health insurance, but I consider myself lucky to have found affordable 100% insurance 'elsewhere'…so deregistering from the Netherlands certainly has great financial benefits and well outweigh the resulting extra costs such as paying taxes in Thailand, etc
Piet
The cultural and especially the linguistic barrier is simply too great. After 15 years I still haven't managed to bridge it. Can more or less get by in Thai (after a lot of studying) and my wife also speaks more or less Dutch. But the fine nuances in each other's language are not caught. Sometimes my wife gets angry because she misunderstands an ironic comment. a Dutchman, for example, would immediately grasp the irony. The language remains a huge barrier even after 15 years. At temple festivals you invariably see that the Thais visit the Thais and the farangs the farangs.
They never really understand each other.
If you settle somewhere in the countryside or in another non-touristy region, you will always feel like an outsider, unless you are a polyglot like Timmermans and learn to speak the language fluently within a few years
Although, that is no guarantee either. A Dutch sociologist, who had first studied regional languages for years, confessed after a 7-year study stay in Thailand that he had not actually made 1 real Thai friend! Just superficial acquaintances.
In fact, he too remained just an outsider.
And on a more modest level: Who doesn't know the famous restaurant scene: The farang seated between his in-laws. Everyone is chatting happily and he is eating in silence. The eternal outsider.
A sensible person does not build expensive houses there. Or you buy something at a location where you can sell it again, so not in Isaan. If you don't like it, you should be able to return. Otherwise you will sour there and reach for the Olifanten beer too often
Indeed it is….. You remain the eternal outsider and you are never really part of society. A friend of mine told me that after 5 years of marriage he once asked his mother-in-law if she actually knew what his first name was… she didn't know because she was still talking about her daughter's 'Farang'.
I actually don't know any Westerner who really has friends here ...... not even after so many years and that is quite telling ..... Is it the language ? The big cultural difference?
The statement that it is difficult to go back to the Netherlands rather than leave for Thailand may well be true especially for the older expat. Unless you are financially independent, it is almost impossible to return as a remigrant. There you are with your suitcase and where are you going to live? Who's going to help you? I have lived and worked in England for 20 years. When I returned to the Netherlands I was able to live with someone temporarily. I reported that I am back and what the possibilities were for a rental property. I was sent from pillar to post and finally came to live in a room at the age of 52. It worked out in the end, but once you leave your home country, you are not welcomed with open arms in your native country. You just figure it out.
Regards, Stephen.
PS. I go to Thailand every year for my holiday and find the country and the people fantastic. But I am also happy when I go back to the Netherlands
Live in Thailand for 15 years. I have never been to the Netherlands in those 15 years. Have a simple house, a Thai wife, 5 dogs, and 2 cats, Have state pension and a pension from the metal and merchant marine.
Together with (holiday money) I receive about 1430 euros per month.
I feel rich and happy every day here in Thailand because what can you do with 1430 euros in the Netherlands??
Count your blessings I want to say to those people who express such criticism of Thailand.
Live in Thailand for 15 years. I have never been to the Netherlands in those 15 years.
Have a very simple / simple house where my Thai wife and I and 5 dogs and 2 cats live.
Have aow + a small pension from the metal and merchant navy. Together with (holiday money) that is about 1430 euros net per month.
I feel happy and rich every day here in Thailand, because what can you do with 1430 euros in the Netherlands?
I want to say to everyone, count your blessings.
When asked if you know Dutch people who are fully integrated and your answer was I don't know them, I still want to respond.
So I think I'm fully integrated. Everything has to do with how you live your own life.
In other words, you hold on to the Dutch, you click together with the Dutch, a member of the NVT… Enzo, then you will never experience the country like an integrated person.
I said from the start if I want to see Dutch people then I will go to the Netherlands.
Our entire daily affairs take place between the Thai.
Both on the market, in our store and in private.
We respect the Thai, the Thai respect the way we do business.
We also have friends in private who just drop by. We have many regular customers on the market. Also order by line. Colleagues in the market respect us and there is simply a very pleasant cooperation.
Doing business, both purchasing and sales plays a role. No credit.
And they also respect when it is not fate damai. We determine the price and there is virtually no haggling. No is no.
In all honesty, I wouldn't even want to go back to the Netherlands. Sure you can. Anyone who wants to go back can go back.
But if you have your social life here, your worries and stuff, you don't have time to think about that.
I think the biggest problem for many is that idleness gives them too much time to worry.
We have average working days of approximately 7 hours to 10 hours. That 5 days and Saturday and Sunday are dedicated to the market which starts at 1 am until 10 am. Just have fun. No bar visits and the like, just a normal existence which would also be normal in the Netherlands.
So just make sure you have enough activities. Then you don't want to go back.
And mind you, there is something everywhere. This also applies to those who have emigrated to other countries.
Maybe I have an advantage that I can handle the heat very well.
Just keep busy at 35 degrees... No problem. Add different variations to your food.
Watch TV? Dutch channels no I don't miss it. Radio on.. Just stream.
So for me I dare say yes I am integrated.
Of course it depends on your resources.
I just kept my owner-occupied house in the Netherlands. That also has to do with the fact that I work in an international business, but if something goes wrong in that area, it's so nice that you can just go back. For example, an acquaintance of mine works in the same sector and has recently become unemployed. There you are in the middle of the Isaan, with no way back. You can send your resume to a company in the USA or EU, but they really don't fly over for a job interview.
I also regularly visit the Netherlands to visit parents, etc.
I also find the story of Tino Kuis also cutting wood. If there are children in the story then IMHO it is just wiser to go to the Netherlands for sure the time they go to school. Actually, I wouldn't have waited that long if I were him, but had his son grow up in the Netherlands since primary school. To the international community, a Thai university degree is about the value of a piece of toilet paper. Most Thais who have successful careers either got there through favoritism or have studied abroad. Examples galore. Yesterday I had something to eat with a Thai manager who works as a manager in Thailand in my field. He really knew so little about it, he would not be hired as a cleaner at a European or American company.
Keeping your home and hearth in the Netherlands is of course financially disadvantageous, but as long as possible I would keep both options open instead of burning everything behind you.
I was born in Indonesia myself, although I have a Dutch father
and because of my light dark appearance I am everywhere treated as an immigrant
Whether I live in Indonesia, Thailand or the Netherlands
everywhere people are treated as second-class citizens
Personally, I love longing for both countries.
In the Netherlands I book a plane ticket to Thailand..stay there for 1 to 2 months and long after this time to go to the Netherlands again..
After some time..say about 3 months..I long for Thailand again..then it's a matter of booking..immerse yourself in anticipation and wait patiently until the date of departure has arrived.
I too have considered in the past to..when I retire..to live there permanently.
There.. after many holidays.. saw so many reasons not to do it..that I finally abandoned that plan.
I enjoy both countries..how and when I want..
For a while I was a PhD candidate at Erasmus University Rotterdam on the subject of happiness and life satisfaction:
http://worlddatabaseofhappiness.eur.nl/
of happiness is average:
50% genetically determined
40% individual circumstances (work, relationship, gender, age, health)
10% to where you are (climate, welfare state, culture)
For most, it doesn't really matter whether or not they are in Thailand for their happiness. differs from person to person
perhaps Thailand has an attractive effect as a promised land on people with personal problems (fallen farang)
happiness survey of Americans who moved from cold regions to warmer regions showed that their happiness did not increase due to the climate
I think the statement is true and mainly for purely psychological reasons. No one moved to Thailand because they had to, but all because we thought we would be happier there: a new partner, a better environment for your medical complaints or a new job (positive) or because people were tired of the Netherlands (negative reasons). What I think causes problems is the ability to adapt to your new environment. Some people can do this better than others (it has something to do with your character), some people get better help than others (it has something to do with the strength of your social network in Thailand). I personally do not believe that the actual situation in Thailand (or in the Netherlands) has changed so dramatically in the past 20 years that that in itself is a reason to return to the homeland. Retirement later or lower, getting sick, no longer having a job: I really don't lose sleep over it for a second. Someone else (who still mentally lives in the Netherlands) might. What is decisive is how you react to changing situations and how much space you have or, better yet, take to live your life the way you want. And after ten years in Thailand, fatalism is completely foreign to me.
Quite right, Chris, it has everything to do with how you stand in life and how flexible you are of "mind"! Provided you didn't leave for Thailand completely rashly, you can assume that people know that not everything is rosy in Thailand either! Thailand has its social problems, but do people not know them in the Netherlands? No, Thailand is not paradise, but is the Netherlands? If you write positively about Thailand, you are by definition wearing rose-colored glasses, but you must be blind if you do not recognize the growing social unrest and social problems in the Netherlands. Those unrest and problems are growing faster in the Netherlands than in Thailand! The once praised social safety net has also become a 'social cushion'. Returning will therefore feel like “from the rain in the drip” or perhaps “from the drip in a downpour”!
Reminds me of a poignant case of a NLer who 20 years ago managed to build a beautiful resort with nice houses, unfortunately in a place where 'the loop' went out. He told me that tourism has changed so much, people only come for a day or 2 and move on again, everything concentrated in the winter months. if so, it will be difficult. He found solace in 20s music that he could now easily download from YouTube. But, now I hope someone will write about how it pleases a Thai in NL. There must be one living on Terschelling, I'm so curious. And yes, NL is filling up, with people and rules, but you can't say that, that's oppressive, we have to take everyone in permanently, otherwise you'll be heartless...
It would be impossible to get by with your small pension, you write …….. Don't you understand how you could do this within x number of years?