Statement of the week: Financial support from your partner's parents is a moral obligation
No matter how you look at it, when you have a Thai partner, sooner or later the financial support of his or her parents will come up. Some expats find this the most normal thing in the world; others whine about it. It is therefore a recurring discussion.
I have no problem with it myself. I just think it's a moral obligation to financially support my girlfriend but also her parents. I help my girlfriend structurally and her parents incidentally by buying something for them now and then. If you think it's easy for me to talk, I can refute that, I'm not wealthy and have only an average income.
My girlfriend works 6 days a week for the well-known 9.000 baht per month. She uses part of it to support her parents in turn. She puts the money she receives from me in a savings account for contingencies.
Her parents are poor and live in a house that should hardly have such a name. A barn is closer to reality. Both work hard and have a scarce income. There is only money for food, not for any luxury. Dad leases some land and grows rice. The revenues are approximately equal to the costs.
Ma does all sorts of odd jobs like helping with the harvest. The most important possessions consist of a simple motorbike (got from my girlfriend), a refrigerator (got from my girlfriend) and an 8 year old rickety TV. They have nothing else. They don't drink and they don't gamble. The only waste is that Dad smokes a few cigarettes a day, but that shouldn't have a name.
When I am in Thailand, we visit her parents in Isaan and I take them to buy something they need. The last time it was a gas stove and the accompanying stainless steel base. Before that they still cooked on wood, but that creates a lot of unhealthy smoke and the wood for the fire also became scarce.
Next time they will get a new TV from me, I have already promised that. One with a slightly larger screen because Pa and Ma's eyes are getting worse. My girlfriend has recently arranged for a satellite dish. Before that they only had a few TV channels, now they have more than 100 and a much better picture. My girlfriend also paid for a small renovation of the house from her savings (and my financial contribution). The fact that my girlfriend supports her parents financially is normal to me. If my parents had to live under the same circumstances, I would do the same.
I have known my girlfriend for four years now and her parents or other relatives have never asked me for money. Not even when Dad recently had serious problems with his left eye. He continued to walk around with it, despite the risk of going blind. Dad didn't want to ask us money for the taxi to the hospital in the provincial town (about a 4-hour drive there and back). When we heard that, of course we did. And luckily, after many treatments and medicines, his eye is doing a lot better.
Why this story? Because I resent the expats with a Thai partner, who are complaining about the financial consequences that come with such a relationship. We are relatively rich and there is nothing wrong with sharing that with your Thai wife and possibly her parents or grandparents. If you love your wife, you want her to be happy. She will not be if she can live in wealth and her parents, who have always taken care of her, in great poverty. Imagine if they were your parents? Would you like that?
If you do not understand this kind of, for many Thai, self-evident things, then you do not understand how it works in Thailand.
But of course you don't have to agree with me. Or maybe it is. So respond to the statement of the week: 'Financial support for your partner and her (grand)parents is a moral obligation.'
@ Khan Peter
I partly agree with you, if you are financially able and you can spare it, of course you jump in
The fact that people consider it a moral duty and therefore do it seems so compulsive to me, a donation because of the moral obligation, sounds to me like so if it has to be done then it has to be done.
You do something like this from your heart and out of love for your partner, and not because you have to.
I also like the way you support. I do exactly the same. However, I blindly refuse to pay up to 20.000 (!) Baht and more per month, which is often demanded. In the beginning, I gave money every month to the family who lives next door, against my wife's wishes. And she was right. Her brothers no longer got up to go to work, but lazed in front of the TV all day.
I then left it to her and she does it in a way that suits her better. When she cooks something special, she also cooks for the family, when we go shopping, always something for the family, they now also have digital TV, dad has his tricycle and so on.
This works. But not that blind giving. I think that's what many people complain about.
Supporting my friend's parents and children is an indirect moral obligation for me. I give her a sum of money a month, which I think I can spare. With that she can do whatever she wants. She doesn't have to buy stuff for the house with it, it's not meant for the supermarket. She may save it, squander it, or give it to her family. That's for her to decide.
That's why I also help her parents. The Thai system of elderly care is based on this.
However, there are very often relationships (and that also happened with us in the beginning) where it is thought that the WHOLE family is now "inside", because daughter has managed to catch a Farang (ATM). They are asked how much you give Farang, "loans" are requested, and they are aggrieved when she says she doesn't get that much and that she has no intention of taking care of the rest of the family. She has two sisters, both of whom are doing better than us financially. Moreover, she believes that when things went badly for her after her divorce, no one would have been willing to help her.
She has two sons, both of whom will one day support their in-laws. So she has no support from that side either.
But to a limited extent, it is her duty to support her parents financially. Not financeable. Just send something every now and then. Her youngest son also receives - when he asks for it (he almost never does) sometimes 500 Baht. Not much money in our eyes, but with that money he can eat about 10 to 15 times.
You can also see it as a kind of social tax that you have when you have a Thai partner.
Yes, in the end you are partly responsible and you have this moral obligation to support her parents. Just as they used to support their own parents. And just like you hope that your own children will do it with you later, when you no longer have any income of your own.
Khan Peter .
It is correct what you write here, it also gives you satisfaction when you see how those people enjoy things that are normal for us that they could only dream of.
In my case it is also the case if they can give something back, even if it is in the form of connections, which they also have an enormous satisfaction with.
You won't hear it from them but that look in their eyes and their smile says it all.
Thai partnership and financial assistance: always a popular topic on Thai forums. If you consider circumstances, as described in the article, it seems only possible that you help. A friend in TH who works 6 days a week for 9 baht a month, from which she also helps her parents in their livelihood, and occasionally provides them with some luxury, deserves all the respect and sympathy. Nothing wrong with that, very commendable. I think a lot of farang do that. Definitely a compliment!
But why is money often a point of contention when it comes to eg TH-NL partnerships? Why is it necessary to point in the direction of morality when it comes to helping your partner and her parents in their TH poorer circumstances? Look, in NL we are used to families linking their children to keep capital and/or reputations together. Still happening in TH. Money plays an (ultimate) role in relationship building all over the world. In NL we also know the phenomenon that someone tries to hook up a richer other person to gain financial advantage. However, what we do not know in NL is the phenomenon that men show their preference for a bep. woman by helping her financially. Expressions of infatuation and subsequent love do not only take place on an emotional level, but also on a financial level. Which socio-cultural origins and causation have to do with this are of a different order, and are not relevant to the statement at the moment.
It is therefore that farang find out with surprise, sometimes bewilderment, that their love must be proven with money. If the living conditions are as described in the article, then rationalization of their confusion takes place, and they declare themselves ready to act.
However, circumstances are described as e.g. in:
https://www.thailandblog.nl/stelling-van-de-week/normaal-thaise-vrouw-financieel-ondersteunt/
then hairs stand on end, incomprehension follows surprise, and anger follows bewilderment.
In short: you should know that a woman's request for financial assistance from her boyfriend or partner is a request that fits her expectations regarding relationships. The fact that the relationship is a farang makes the question all the easier.
Because that question is as good as usual, please be wary of the farang. There are plenty of examples of TH women in good circumstances absolutely not asking their boyfriend or partner for money. But there are also examples of immense brutality.
That's why the farang please follow his gut, don't just keep his wallet open, and act like an ATM. KhunPeter gives a good example in this: consider the circumstances and then consider to what extent you want to assist, and how much you can support. It is especially important that the farang knows how to say 'no', which I sometimes get the impression that farang with a lack of social skills throws itself into adventures. It is then all the more easy when things have gone wrong to point to the TH side, where the farang itself has proved to be lacking in its haughtiness. I've never understood why brothers and brothers-in-law should be provided with mopeds and pick-ups, nor the fact that if you want to give a moped as a gift, you tack and pay for a car.
Anyway: keep your financial independence, help where you can and only then if you want to. If you feel like you're being squeezed, stop. The relationship has long been based on false assumptions. For the rest, there is nothing wrong with helping a partner and her family in needy situations. As long as it feels good!
We have been supporting the family in Thailand for 14 years. Don't know any better.
But, there are limits.
It must be real!
Hans I agree with you 100%, how much you give is different for everyone and depending on how much you can spare, but even if you have millions it must be realistic.
You can buy a partner all over the world.
You love your wife or not, do you love her then you want her to be happy so you support her at all!!!!! fronts
I'll take over two sentences from you, which are also mine.
"She won't be if she can live in wealth and her parents, who have always taken care of her, in great poverty."
I have modified the following sentence of yours (Thai removed)
“If you don't understand these kinds of self-evident things, then you don't understand how life works.”
In other words, I don't understand how people can say: I love you if you don't love her/his family.
I have been with my Thai husband for 16 years and also married, he has a job and the Netherlands and pays monthly money to his family, he is responsible for it.
Well, I think completely differently. So I don't think it's normal to give money. I'm not used to living in the Netherlands, so why here? So I have to subsidize a family because Thailand doesn't do anything for its inhabitants. Of course you think selfishly now, but luckily I don't care. Fortunately, my Thai wife thinks the same way. Her brother does so, with the result that the parents have now bought a new car and their son can actually cough up the monthly installments. Why obligation? Occasionally some groceries, eating out or something like that is more than enough.
So I (or we) don't start it. I've always worked hard and saved to have something later and then give it away now? Well, you often hear stories from the Netherlands that divorced men can no longer build a future due to the alimony that has to be coughed up. Well, that's how I see the Thai situation. A kind of disguised (almost mandatory) alimony that makes no sense. Every reader should do what he or she thinks is right, but to sit down and talk properly against Dutch norms and values is really going too far for me. But yes, opinion Dutch 'guest' in Thailand suddenly feels more Thai than the original inhabitants 🙂
I think this is very short sighted!
@ Jan Dekker: Totally agree with you!
I do agree with Jan.
Compare a poor Dutch woman who made you work for 31 years and then says look at it but you can go because I met a friend that I love.
You have been sidelined by the law for all your work for your family.
Sell everything and the ex can buy a lot with 12 years of alimony.
Here you can find a future with the rest of what the auction raised.
You feel rich to come here and forget that you are on your way to new happiness, which often turns out to be only after money.
Literally and figuratively you are the asshole .
With any luck there is a woman whose heart she already wants to be with you and has followed that in the hope that she can be yours.
She saves you from all the bad things that can come and gives you a lesson.
She turns out to be right from that poor family.
Now she has been my girlfriend for more than 10 years.
The village where she comes from always gives me the pleasure to be there when I visit.
They don't know what we bring, I cook and see that everyone enjoys it.
These people don't take 1 beer.
For me it's great, just thinking that there will be macaroni and other things by mail in that village again.
In the meantime, many people on our blog know that I import fish from Holland, the cuttings go to Ubon Ratchatani to make a pala.
These people are really happy with it, it's a great new taste for them.
In this way everyone can make poor people happy .
They don't sit on that couch because they want to be economical with it, the TV doesn't turn on much, they did get energy-saving lamps because they are under 50 Thb, they don't have to pay anything.
Hereby I hope that those men who cannot get a wife in their country and after their trip to the bar will also respect those poor families whose daughter would rather have a man of their dreams.
Personally I vomit from those kinds of men who have something matured here and tell in their pub how popular they are.
Give her and the family a good tip and they'll thank you for not having to eat animals caught from all over for once.
.
Totally agree.
Single VBN:
1) I took a hotel window in Hua Hin. The driver was a woman from Isaan, expecting a third child and married to a Thai.
Her father reproached her for not marrying a farang because then they would have a house like the neighbors (in the Isaan).
2) my girlfriend was with a wealthy Japanese when she was young. He abused her, cheated her by even bringing in prostitutes, and gave her two miscarriages. After 10 years of misery, she started walking to start completely from scratch. When she tried to open her own restaurant, her ex hired a thug team to smash everything up. Her savings gone… His intention has always been to tie her to him financially. He bought a house for her parents in Chiang Mai. Her father has always accused her of leaving him…. Despite the gross abuses ... Her father is a filthy filthy egoist who also abuses his own wife and is only after money, which he thinks he can collect through his children's partners.
Everything revolves around money there. Disgusting.
3) if they could save themselves for our relationship, then also during.
4) Every situation is obviously different. But still strange that the expectation pattern is the norm….
Personally I agree with you, parents get 500 Bhat as a pension, so you can't do anything with that.
We also regularly buy household goods for her parents.
The food that is 'left over' with us also goes to her parents. Only I started 7 years ago with 3000 Bhat per month and now that is 16.000 Bhat. All responsible; electricity, water, telephone / internet, bus and school money kids, but hey.
My girlfriend was also regularly approached for a "loan" of 1000 to 3000 Bhat, but we have not done that and if the Thai knows that we do not, then that question is no longer there.
We are going to buy a sofa at IKEA in May and then her parents will receive our sofa and they are very happy with it. That's how it works in Thailand.
However, the financial pressure increases as the kids (2 daughters) get older, because children of a frang go to a private school and they are very expensive.
Dear Peter,
If the parents and/or family are not constantly nagging (nagging) about money, which is clearly fine in your situation, I look through exactly the same glasses as you.
In the Netherlands and the surrounding area, we have transferred that duty of care to the government and pay tax / social security for this throughout our lives.
In other countries, including Thailand, this is taken care of by the family.
It is using one's own mind, so as not to let non-needy family members idle.
Giving money to someone who doesn't have it is not a moral obligation as far as I'm concerned. You give money out of a certain feeling whether it be love, pity, or some other emotion. This, of course, happens at all levels.
charitable donations; who doesn't. When I walk down the street in Thailand and I see a poor hunchbacked female with only 1 leg, it is difficult for me to walk past and not give anything. I actually give 10 or 20 bath as standard. When my father died, mom had to take a step back financially. She lived in a rented house without rent allowance. Together with the 4 brothers, we then jointly deposited an amount of 300 euros monthly into her account, so that she could continue to live in the “too expensive” house. I think it is only natural that you support family when it is really necessary. In a welfare state such as the Netherlands, this is of course almost never necessary. In Thailand there is no retirement provision, unless you have arranged it yourself. Depending on your own financial situation, it seems obvious to me that you support your wife financially if you live with her or are married, most men in the Netherlands also do that if necessary. And yes, that includes in-laws, especially in Thailand. Suppose you live in Thailand as a foreigner, you have a wife and enough money to play golf 4 times a week. But your in-laws' house is falling apart and you know they don't have the money to fix it up. What are you doing then? Are you saying, that's not my problem and you keep playing golf 4 times a week or are you going to put some money aside every month to have a new simple house built for them. If you see boys in the Isaan playing football with a ball of rubber band cobbled together, do you say this is not my problem or do you buy them a nice ball? And of course I could go on and on. I think it is only normal that you share your "wealth" with others. I'm going to Thailand this year with a small pension (about 35.000 bath p/m). If I meet a nice woman to live with in Thailand (which is not inconceivable), I already take into account that I will spend about 5.000 to 10.000 baht on family expenses.
And then I can still go golfing once a week. However, I will decide for myself to whom and what I give financial support. That does not include iPads, expensive telephones and luxury items. And that doesn't include boyfriends, nephews, nieces, aunts and uncles.
Hans
Coming to Thailand with a pension of 35000 bath is an achievement if you have a visa there
can decorate I do have my doubts. Also know farangs here with little income, but that is no longer the case
possibly the prices in thailand have almost doubled compared to 5 years ago for housing and the
most of the food that a farang wants to buy . If you can live like a Thai, you can
did not come to Thailand as a pensioner to live in poverty here.
All these questions (they are very often put in various terms and invariably lead to scathing comments) are based on a failure to recognize/understand the all-important principle that the social security system in Thailand (& in many other countries*) is NOT THE STATE IS BUT THE FAMILY. It is really time to include this as a main rule in a description of Thailand.
And in a family, the strongest shoulders bear the heaviest burdens. That is a duty, also from Buddhism. If you enter into a permanent relationship with a Thai, you automatically become a 'family member'. As a foreigner – this certainly does not apply to a Thai! – you can indicate the limits of this obligation as a rule, but you can expect regular questions about 'an additional contribution'.
Actually nothing special; we also had this system in Europe before 'the state' took over a large part of these tasks.
*A few years ago, a well-known court case was played in Singapore, brought by a mother against her children who did not want to support her financially. The mother won the case, because 'parents are obliged to support their children, but the reverse also applies'.
It goes without saying that you try to support your wife's parents according to your means.
Although I don't have a large income either, I try to give my wife's parents some money now and then. But I also have to watch my count myself, as I already indicated, my income is not that big either.
I also recently gave them a dish and a carpet for the concrete floor and some windows for their house. They are lovely people and they never ask me for money. Only occasionally to my wife. But if it became an obligation and they would not do anything themselves, I would not do that either.
This month we go there and she gets a bicycle and some money. And when we get the holiday money, they get a new TV. Recently they have their own piece of land and have built a kind of house there. It has a large space and they sleep there, they sit and there is also storage space and outside under a roof they have a kitchenette and a Thai toilet. That does not last. They both work very hard. But like many others, they are unlucky that they still have not received money from the government for their rice. And probably won't get it from this good government for the time being.
So their life is not that good and fun either. That's why if I can I like to help them.
In principle, I also support my Thai family. However, the sun rises for nothing. My Thai family has learned that I am not an ATM. They can get money from me if needed depending on the situation they need it for. Not to pay gambling debts and things like that. But there is a service in return. For example, I often have someone help me build my house. However, if they say no, I also give a no. I had to work for my money and they can also get money from me with work. If it is a no with me, then they will also get a no from my Thai partner.
A piece after my heart Peter
We also usually give goods when we are in Thailand we see what they need
BV. a refrigerator or a gas stove, things like that. We don't have it that wide ourselves so money
we cannot give. In the past when we could, we did
I don't think it's normal. The phrase that she won't be happy says it all
Any sane person would agree with you on that. Here in the Netherlands, too, the children help out if you are having a hard time financially. We experienced that ourselves.
The nurturing is mainly something that is in the woman, men are different in that.
We have 4 sons ourselves. But it is mainly their wives who keep an eye on how we are doing
Of course you shouldn't just give tons of money. But hanging in the pub while your parents-in-law don't have food, you can't sleep at night
Kees
I do the same, because there will come a day when I will live in Thailand.
I built a house for my wife, now she is going to work on the market, and as you said yourself, it is not possible for her to save much. so I send her some pennies, she can dress up the house a little more.
I will be going there again soon for 3 weeks. and it makes me happy that she now lives in a posh house.
You see everyone has their own opinion, and whether it is good or bad they all have to see for themselves.
It is different per case.
You indicate about that gas stove, in addition to this, a balloon may cost approx. 5000 baht, you can put cow manure with water in it and nature produces gas itself, then they do not have to buy gas fillings every time. (company in Petchabun, have no part in this for the critics.)
“The last time it was a gas stove and the accompanying stainless steel base. Before that they still cooked on wood, but that creates a lot of unhealthy smoke and the wood for the fire also became scarce.”
I only see Isaan every time….Is sending money or supporting money throughout Thailand?
Why is it mainly isaan women who have a farang partner? Isn't money and income difference the main reason why these two parties are able to find each other?
And isn't the demand for financial support a logical consequence of this, because it is precisely the cause of the fact that Westerners and Isaan partners know how to find each other?
The Isan is the poor part of Thailand. There is no industry, the level of education is low, so the prospect of a good income is in many cases nil. In short, poor trump. The rest of Thailand also looks somewhat down on the inhabitants of the Isan. As a result, many young Isaan women go to work in the bars in Pattaya, Bangkok and Phuket in the hope of "hooking" a farang there. Subsequently, in many cases the farang is then expected to supplement the insufficient income in the Isaan.
Recently I read on Thailand blog that the Isan is the fastest growing economy in Thailand.
I like to believe it, live there myself and see in recent years what companies are "stamped" out of the ground. Just like beautiful houses and apartments.
People in Thailand regularly ask me how I can still live in poor Isan.
When I ask if they have ever been there, it is always: “No, but I always HEAR it”
Because it is not so green here, it is not poor.
And of course the ladies in the bars say they have no money, they say that all over the world.
Moderator: no off-topic questions please
The biggest nonsense, I give what if it suits me. When I go to the North to my parents-in-law, the whole family and in-laws are already waiting, then half the street is full of almost new cars, including Mercedes, BMW and other expensive cars. Then I come in, the latest new TV is on again, I make sure they have enough food and drink as long as I'm there, dad only drinks chivas regal, grandpa black label, the rest of the fam. likes campari with fresh oranges , a sister always came for a minimum of 1000 baht, I did not know what for, but when I walked outside I saw her gamble 2 houses away. She immediately bet 1000 baht on 10 numbers, in 4 days I am +-60.000 baht lighter. So I try to get away from those Muppets as much as possible, with New Year my wife went alone with reluctance because I did not go along, I did call saawadee pee mai I said, the only thing my mother-in-law said was, Jack what did you buy for me. I said when I come I will buy you an ice cream immediately they hung up.
This subject has already been discussed several times, and my always talks about the farang who met a female from the Isan, it seems to be usually there that you help the parents, I have no problem with that, I myself have seven years old friend who is from Phisanulok studied at university time in Bangkok and was presented with her bull by the Crown Prince of Thailand, her father is a retired Army General, I bought my girlfriend a Villa in Chiangmai where I am now live with her, I want to say with this message that one mainly hears this problem
from the Isaan, I only pay for my girlfriend and I am very happy with that, so support
for every parents is not always necessary,
Greetings Pascal from Chiangmai
This should not only work in Thailand, but also in the Netherlands and in other countries, of course.
But unfortunately, we Dutch are frontrunners in self-interest and greed, but being happy
there are still exceptions.
I think it would be wonderful to be part of that partial culture there, maybe it will return here on the cold and chilly distant clay soil.
Everyone has to decide for themselves. But if the Thai lady in question is married to a Thai from the village and that Thai earns an average Thai wage, who's parents will they support, hers, his, both or none ?I think everyone knows the answer,turn it and turn it how you want it,they just expect something because we are farang and rich in their eyes.Some Thai women do find out that is not the case when they go going west, some never understand, others grew up in one of the luxurious places of thailand, where many westerners wave the money and everyone can think what their goal is.
But ok if you go through life with a thai woman, and you think you are happy and her parents are poverty-stricken, your heart will speak if you are a normal person, but also keep your mind.
We also need to understand that old people in Thailand don't have health insurance or any other benefits like we do in the west, doesn't mean we have to take over this job, but if a Thai who earns 10-15000 helps the family with few thousand paddles I normally and I have no problem with it, but ATM play no!
Support has two sides. This is also stated in the social laws in the Netherlands. On the one hand the right to financial support, but on the other hand the obligation to show personal responsibility. If the second is missing, the entitlement to the first will also lapse. In my opinion, the same principle should play the determining role in the Thai situation, regardless of who should make the payment. The daughter or the farang. The amount of the contribution should then be related to the capacity of the person who assumes the obligation, up to a reasonable amount in the relevant situation. If the family member's means are sufficient, why should the farang take on the obligation. In the case of a marriage, there is then a shared obligation.
With everything written I see bitterness, egoism of Farang and/or Thai. Also misunderstanding. Just because the social system in the Netherlands is different, that of Thailand should not be detested. In the Netherlands you pay taxes, health insurance and whatever. You pay for your pension during your working period. The Dutch state interferes in everything. The Thai government to a much lesser extent. If you are rich here, it will also benefit your family here. In the Netherlands you have to support people who are completely foreign to you. In the Netherlands, the more you earn, the more you have to hand over to all those who are unable or too lazy to take care of themselves. When my children went to daycare, I had to make the highest contribution. A neighbor who was not working could afford to send his daughter to horseback riding lessons. I could not do it. And I made good money. Here in Thailand you only deal with your partner's family. I like it when the parents are helped. You leave this to your partner. I think it's ridiculous to build a house for them, even if you have 10.000 euros a month. But you can support them through your partner. It must be reasonable. The proposition that you should do this out of love or moral considerations is again typical Western guilt thinking. If you are clear from the start about your "help", you will have no problems. It is part of the system here and I find it antisocial not to cooperate with it.
Jack, you worded it well. We pay so much tax here because we live in a welfare state, where even the freeloaders are fully supported and that is something that has annoyed me for years.
In Thailand they do not have such a system. Children are dependent on their parents and at a later age this is the other way around, no different from what was previously the case in the Netherlands. The talk about socialization has made people here self-centered: each for himself and God for us all. Parents who become needy are placed in a nursing home. In Thailand (Asia) that is considered disrespectful!
I have been married to a Thai woman for over 10 years and I take it for granted that I support her single mother financially.
Hello.
I have been in Thailand for almost three months now, and I intend to stay here forever. I met my girlfriend two months ago, and everything clicked perfectly, until she started talking about “support my parents”… I just went through a very tough divorce, so I was skeptical… wrongly… I will come back to that right away .
I am a daily reader of the blog, and after a year of reading all the contributions, the diaries, the experiences, I thought I knew it all a bit…
And then you arrive at the airport in Bangkok, and you get a hammer blow to the head, because this is completely different than you ever imagined, you can't imagine a bigger culture clash. And it just starts… once in your room you start exploring the area, and you discover that you know absolutely nothing about the country and its inhabitants, customs and mentality…
Now back to my girlfriend and supporting mom and dad, in that order. I never imagined it was so important to her, until she told me: I'm leaving you...
I was perplexed, she got everything she wanted, nothing was too much for me, and she wanted to leave?
She stayed with her sister for two days, I talked a lot with her sister, with Thai friends, with only one conclusion, support from the family is very important, because of loss of face.
I talked to my girlfriend about it for days, to what extent you can call it talking, her knowledge of the English language is very limited, now she says “yes” and 5 seconds later she answers “no” to the same question.
She said she could not go to her home village with a friend to visit her parents if that friend does not support her, loss of face for her and the family.
I now understand her better, although it will be a long time before I will be able to understand her. One thing is certain… since I made a financial settlement with her, and here was also a stumbling point, because I insisted that she also put some of that money into her own savings account, there is no problem anymore, she is happy, and she smiles all day long.
Honestly, I almost lost her because I just didn't understand her. And I'm lucky that she's with me every day… she's from Sae Khaeo, in Isaan, and despite the prejudices, she's a lovely sweet and beautiful brown woman .
Within three weeks we will visit her parents, combined with a visa run 40 km further to Cambodia. I'm really looking forward to it... My girlfriend says: my parents are old, it's not tidy, because they can't afford a cleaning lady, but thanks to your financial help they can now.
Loong, because that's what my girlfriend calls two more things... new clothes, so that she arrives in her native village in new, and if I would personally hand over the "monthly support" to mom, in front of family and neighbors...
Well, if I can make the woman I love happy with it, then I don't hesitate for a second!
She is more than worth it, and although I have already read enough good advice on this blog, I have come to the realization just in time that if you want a partner here, and want to stay here, you really have to adapt, and try to penetrate into their world of thought.
But the reward is proportional… they are very nice sweet and loyal partners, if you respect them… but isn't that the case everywhere?
I want to thank Thailandblog, without the blog I would never have been here… if you adapt a bit, it is a wonderful country here, lovely people, good food… always nice and warm… I never want to leave here.
Rudy
I don't agree with the statement. Especially not with the sentence – if I don't understand this kind of self-talk, I don't understand how it works in Thailand. I am convinced that I know that, without having to support my (Thai) wife's family in any way.
This is clearly an individual story. That does not detract from my respect for what neither writer does for his (or her) family.
But to set this as an example for all Thai relationships between expats and Thai ladies is far too simplistic. There are certainly thousands of contradictions to describe, where things go completely differently, to the satisfaction of all parties.
To call this a moral duty is going too far. You could therefore call it a moral obligation, to finally marry the Thai lady, who has been your girlfriend for 4 years?.
Let me put it this way: we Westerners adhere to the principle: what is mine is mine alone and not someone else's. The Thais don't see it that way. “What is mine and my family's is also yours; what is yours is also mine and all of us”. My eldest brother-in-law recently explained this to me as a result of a simple thing. My wife had bought me dessert to go with coffee and my brother-in-law had done the same and put everything together in the fridge. Now I wanted to know what my brother-in-law had bought for him and my wife for me and I asked him, what is yours now. He thought that was very strange that I asked him that and he replied that what he bought I might as well eat, that's no problem he said, you're like my brother. Then later he told me that Thai point of view. I think that because of that difference of opinion, many things and many relationships fail for that reason alone. Such statements seem very strange to us and we have a hard time with that, because we are only used to Western views from childhood, right? For the Thais, helping the family is the most normal thing in the world. Also and quite often especially when it concerns a farang to help that family out of need.
Jack,
I don't understand your comment: “the statement that you should do this out of love or moral considerations is again typical Western guilt thinking”. What does love have to do with guilt?
Ken, it was said that if you love your wife, you must also love and support her family. Western culture is a guilt culture. We feel guilty when someone else is doing worse than ourselves (in most cases). This kite does not work in Thailand. And certainly not when some men think that they have to support the whole family, brothers and sisters, because they are such poor people and after all they love their sister.
Not everyone can help it that things are going badly for them. Making bad choices or making no choices at all is also related to it. Brother dear doesn't go to work anymore, because the Farang has pity (guilt) and pays him more than he would earn.
Love is very often confused with guilt, when you don't realize what one is and what the other is. I can love my girlfriend and still not give anything to her parents. However, I can also get such a feeling of guilt, because I am doing much better, that I do give something.
Completely agree with the statement, provided the poverty does not come from laziness.
A beggar who only holds out his hand cannot easily count on my compassion.
Do something: sell a flower or a rusty nail, polish my shoes or dust my tank
moped, but do something! Then I respect the poorest slob and want to show this too.
Also with your (my) Thai in-laws, they never ask, but if they can help they are there. And me for them. With a smile and respect.
This is how my parents used to raise me: “do good and don't look back”.
In this case I think it is completely ok to support the Thai girlfriend and the in-laws financially
because they work hard and yet remain poor.
They are good people who really try their best.
However, when it is only about demanding and profiting as much money as possible
and when you can't trust them
then I pass.
I must say, this really interests me. On the one hand, I also think that I can help my mother-in-law, and therefore not the entire family, move forward. So no must.
But on the other hand, it often feels like a duty. And then I often think: how were things in the past, so without farang. And why is that not possible anymore.
It is my experience that in the past the entire family took care of the mother-in-law, but that it is now demanded that my wife (or I) not only have to take care of the mother-in-law all alone, but also for the brothers, the sons, etc., so the entire family and if possible even down to the cousins. And take it from me that there are many in such a small village in the Isaan.
I think the situation is now as follows: Her son sees her (me) as the local ATM and he doesn't like working and learning too much either, so if mom would like to cough up some money, because he wants to smoking cigarettes, using the internet every day etc etc,. Her brothers think it's fine this way, but if mother has to go to the doctor or hospital, we are supposed to pay, even if they think it's normal that we sometimes pay for the petrol for the motorcycles or something like that for them.
And in the meantime, mother thinks this is normal and I think that, in addition to all those contributions, we should also give her a monthly amount so that she can do what she wants, just like the son.
that's why it's a bit against me and I don't really understand that there are so many "good" comments here. Have you not noticed all this or are those families a bit more tactical, or is the fault still with me.
Who oh who can help me.
Andrie
Read this and you will understand your role in the family a lot better: https://www.thailandblog.nl/achtergrond/thailand-bij-uitstek-een-netwerk-samenleving/
@ Khun Peter, Feb 13, 18:48 PM:
An excellent article that every farang should read very carefully.
In relation to the statement of the week: because Thailand is not a welfare state (and probably never will be*), the family clan bears this responsibility and with it the burdens – if any. Mutual aid, but also mutual consultation (including interference). You can build on the clan! I have often experienced mutual aid from Thais up close. If you take a good look around you, you will see examples every day.
Through a permanent relationship with a Thai partner, you become a member of the family clan, with the benefits and burdens associated with it. It is usually accepted for a foreigner to indicate boundaries.
*The article reports trends for the future, such as (further) expansion to a welfare state. In Asia this is not the case in rich countries either, at least not as we know it in Europe; the 'care' is largely based on private initiative (eg via companies, or via the clan). What is usually arranged by the state are basic services for health care and education.
Many Thais assume that every expat is a very rich guy. The Thai sees that as a fact, regardless of whether it is true. The expat would make it clear right from the start that this joke doesn't work. The Thais would like us to play a (financial) role in the family, but you are stupid enough if you let yourself be pushed for this Thai cart.
I notice again and again that there are enough expats in the Netherlands, who did not wish their own wife a new dress, but in Thailand spontaneously put a lot of money on the table for the craziest things. Apparently the higher day temperature affects their normal thinking ability?. When I read through all the above responses, there are plenty of (poor) expats who let themselves be used as milk cows and all under the motto, . . .that is Thai culture . . . explain this to themselves and to others.
The fact is, however, that many Thais have put themselves in a miserable situation. Having no money, borrowing everywhere to be able to participate at a level where they do not belong financially. Therein lies the main point. The richer Thai, however, exploit this and give them private loans at 5% interest per month. That is an interest rate of 60%/year !!!. That means that the rich Thai themselves exploit the poor Thai outright. The poor Thai has no property and therefore does not receive a bank loan.
For that reason I do not financially promote any family member (except my own wife). They have often built up their financially very bad situation themselves in the past 25-40 years. Loan after loan and no possibility of repayment. For that reason, I have no intention of changing anything about it. I'm not the rich sugar uncle from the USA. I made this clear to my Thai family from day one. My wife is of the same view. As a Thai, she also thinks that many Thais simply have no feeling towards . . . money.
He or she who talks about morality or moral obligations here would do well to take a close look at the real circumstances first, and then to animate others. For those expats who have assigned themselves a missionary role in this, I say, . . go ahead, …. but don't try to convert others here who see these realities.
Love and money are inextricably linked in Thailand. Meanwhile, the pot is calling the kettle black. The drunks who mess around with bargirls are anti-social and the ones who build a loving relationship are good, but at the end of the day they all paid big and that money has flowed one way or another into Thai society. Helping your in-laws is highly regarded, but the one-legged beggar who doesn't belong to the family is out of luck. well you can get rid of your 20 Baht.
Fortunately, money has no conscience, nor morality. What ultimately counts is how much do you think you want to spend on yourself and how much on others. And believe it or not, the mom of a sunken bargirl has just as many needs as your loving mother-in-law. The rest is up to the moralists.
turn the tables, if we were in their financial situation, and we had friends in our village who married a foreigner who spoiled them financially, and you come to your village with a foreigner who loves to see you, but no financial help, then you would also lose face because the others do have that help, where is the love then? Turn it and turn it how you want, it's all about the money, those thai men of the village can't do what the foreigners can do, then the choice is made quickly!!
And how many masks do not sleep with an older gentleman in Pattaya, or live with that older gentleman, but still buy out a young handsome boy in those karaokes, they say we also have our feelings, so it's not about money do you think?????
Yes, there are exceptions in everything, but most western men think they have caught that exception.
I think, as long as you are happy and the Thai family too.
If you can give, you give, even if it's a little.
Don't forget that superiors have already given sinsod to the family.
Ok Jack I get it
The government in the Netherlands is increasingly placing responsibility for its own family with the citizen. With all its consequences. For many elderly people it is not a fat pot. And the facilities (for example old people's homes and nursing homes) are becoming increasingly stripped down. The personal contributions are increasing and people are increasingly dependent on volunteers and family.
I wonder how many of us still have parents in the Netherlands. How often are they visited or contacted? How much help will they need if they become needy? Are we going to deliver that too or do we prefer to stay in Thailand?
Many often support their relatively young Thai in-laws and Thai relatives they barely know.
They must know that themselves, but may not morally impose this obligation on others, who do not see the point of this.
Everyone has to do what they can't resist, but if there were a responsibility, I think it would rather be for your real family and your own (Thai) family.
My comments should be seen as an attempt to place the Thai 'family problem' in a slightly broader perspective.
Eugenio, this may be true, but are your monthly contributions going down? No. You will be charged additional burdens. In Thailand you pay little or no health insurance or in a pension fund. That's another cost. Moreover, the energy costs here are significantly lower. You can survive here without air conditioning. In the Netherlands without heating… difficult.
But what are we actually talking about?
I can still remember, when I was a little boy, that every Tuesday I drove to my grandparents on my go-getter to bring them a pan of food. The other days my uncles and aunts did.
Every Thursday my mother, often reluctantly but faithfully, went to my grandparents to clean the house.
Every Saturday we went with two shopping bags to the Saturday market and from there to my grandparents where the whole family gathered and gave my parents their share of the groceries.
It is a great pity that things have changed in the Netherlands.
Let everyone take care of themselves and God or Buddha for all of us. Make clear agreements before you go to Thailand. Don't play the big boy out of giving money to family, you didn't do that in NL either. Moral obligations to contribute to her family while her own brothers and sisters have it better than them? That's crazy. Just let your heart speak. I do support a home for the disabled, where people sometimes live without legs who have been killed by their own Thai family after an accident are left. There in that disabled house they are already happy when I arrive with a bag of 50 kg of rice, they don't want money but they want food. Because they see a disabled person in Thailand as a bad sign of their Buddha and spirits business. And everything that a Westerner does not want or cannot understand, they classify it under the word culture. Disabled people who have to live on 500 bath pm is that Thai culture? They still need a lot of clothes to treat their family more humanely. So support the disabled who need it more than relatives who demand a sum of money from that farang.
I think it's great that there is still a caring society in Thailand in which children take care of parents and I agree with the statement. Because we live 400 meters from the parents, we support the parents more in a practical sense, such as cooking and cleaning the house and bringing a beer to her father every afternoon. They receive financial support from another sister who lives with a farang and lives a 4-hour drive away.
In 2014 I may be a white raven among the Dutch expats in Thailand because I am married to a woman who is many, many times richer than me. Not sooner, nor later will I be faced with the question of supporting her family. After all, that family owns condomium buildings and other real estate such as shops (in bangkok) with large monthly revenues.
Given the growth of the Thai middle class (people with a monthly salary of 20 to 80 thousand baht; not only in Bangkok but also in economic growth cities such as Khon Kaen and Udonthani), more expats will marry wealthy Thai women, with the financial support of the Thai family is not necessary. If Thai politics in the field of education (especially vocational education in the north and northeast, the poorer regions) and agriculture (more diversity in crops and livestock, supporting poor farmers but not through a corrupt rice subsidy) do not change, the poor will Thais in the regions mentioned will remain poor for a while and become relatively poorer. For expats who find their wives in the rural areas of the north and northeast, even more will be asked to support the family. Because no matter how you look at it: even with a minimum income or only state pension you are much richer than the Thai who works for the minimum wage of 300 bat. And many Thai who work in the informal sector do not even reach this amount.
Extremely reprehensible statement of which you wonder whether this is born out of the personal situation with the objective of accepting it as normal for others?
They try of course and with a whole box full of tricks. Your Thai connection is the lever that opens your wallet.
But objectively
Break free from your own life situation. Is that really necessary? Generations are happy with a simple life and then you go TVs. cars, mopeds and even for an even larger circle than the parents give away.
Own responsibility, yes you build up in your life and then you're fine later.. You don't just mess around, whether or not strengthened by Mekong.
Stung in it, yes I too in the beginning until I realized that her mother was going to play the big madam with my money and pass it on without mentioning the source. Then the gambling, yes because that gives face. Iki is still licking the wounds of loans that were needed 30 years ago because the harvest was late. Or fantasy doctor fees that bought land.
I'm so lucky to be KIE NEW AUW and they now know that with cock stories you won't get there.
Just a few days ago , Chiang Mai, Aunt wants to set up a few hundred thousand for a coffee shop . Loan that you will never see again in Thai style. A little later son the lawyer picks her up, IN A BIG MERCEDES.
And there is much more, but wife nags, I have to go to the beach with the dogs
I was always taught that you should treat others the way you want them to treat you. That is, of course, a proposition that has to work both ways, otherwise it excludes itself.
Although I have only been living in Thailand for about two years, I think I can conclude that the "moral obligation to show financial solidarity towards your Thai partner and his (grand)parents" (and in the case of implicit expansion also the rest of the family, or better: clan - see most of the above responses) is mainly expected (not to say: imposed) from the farang to the Thai.
Conversely, this is much less often (not to say never) the case. At least that's what I learn from my own experience and that of others whose stories I don't just blindly believe, but whose essence (the financial one-way street) I do believe.
A farang friend of mine, who has been living here for years (and, not unimportant detail, he doesn't have much money at all, on the contrary) puts it this way:
“Whatever you do for them, you remain a pariah for the Thai, their own people always come first. First come their parents, their grandparents and their brothers and sisters and themselves. Then the cousins, and all the special friends and acquaintances, the clan members so to speak. Then the rest of their village community. Then the inhabitants of their own province. Then all the other Thai, with the exception of those they ever got into a fight with. They come one step lower. Just above the dog of those same enemies. And then it's almost your turn: you're just after the louse in the fur of that dog”.
That is of course a very bold statement that cannot be interpreted literally at all.
But she does say a lot about the personal experiences of a man who has lived here for years and who speaks from a certain experiential expertise (as I said, he is anything but broad).
I thought that this voice should also be heard.
Gr Kito
Dear Kito, I don't have that experience. I feel no less than a louse in a dog's fur in Thailand. There is a proverb that says: 'A man gets what he deserves'. Maybe your friend's position in Thailand has something to do with that?
Thanks for all the responses. We close the comment option.