“Moos has opened a new business and Sam comes to see him. When asked by Sam how things are going, Moos says: “Fantastic! I will soon have to expand” Sam, jealous as he is: “Great Moos, I wish you lots of staff!”
After all, personnel only cause problems and extra worries, and that certainly applies to Thai employees in the middle class. They don't listen, they don't understand you, they speak bad English, they don't do what you tell them and they just want more money.
At least that is the impression I get from time to time when I see well-meaning Farang entrepreneurs busy. Often without experience, both in the home country and in Thailand, people start a business, hire staff, who often leave just like that. Good knowledge of Thai customs and showing understanding for sometimes different views on work regularly breaks up those entrepreneurs.
In recent months I saw in four restaurants, one of which was under Dutch management, that the staff had left en bloc. Dissatisfied with not paying the minimum wage and dissatisfied with the employer's “colonial” treatment. The shopkeepers often think that Thai personnel should adapt to the foreign working method.
What do you think? Do you have the same experience as a tradesman or do you occasionally see that a farang tradesman treats the staff badly? Do you agree with the statement?
Love has to come from both sides.
It is very difficult to work with Thai staff as a farang, the language and culture can cause problems.
And just like in Holland, there is good and bad staff, and good and bad employers.
It might be an idea to first hire people based on daily wages (note the minimum monthly wage differs per city or province) in this way you can select good workers from the bad, and retain the good staff.
And with good results, as an employer you could reward your staff, for example a dinner at the end of the month, or a small bonus, etc.
What applies in the Netherlands also applies in Thailand, be strict but fair and people will respect you.
I am very curious about the responses to this post.
I've seen a well-meaning Westerner start a business, just pay the legal minimum wage, do extra things for the staff that no Thai/Chinese would do, vacation days, in short, just want to be a good employer.
And yet things went wrong.
The staff behaved badly, way too late, not blazing ahead, talking on the private phone while the customers were waiting.
Why?
The Thai don't like working for a farang.
Loss of face…..
The case is still there.
The Thai wife is now the nominal owner.
She pays too little, short on salary when the staff is late, no holidays, no extras, and pays by the day… two weeks later.
Problem out of the world.
Often a Thai wife on paper is the owner of the business or at least co-owner. As long as the farang does not interfere directly with the staff, but leaves that to his wife, the chance of success is, in my opinion, much greater.
It is very difficult for me to answer this.
You experience both the one and the other.
The best experience is to consult each other so that everyone feels that they are responsible for something .
Make sure no rioters get a chance and a nice atmosphere among each other .
Flys are caught with syrup.
I'm actually also curious about success stories from people who know how best to work with the local population.
We have been coming to a resort run by Dutch people for years.
They are strict but fair towards the staff.
Staff are expected to work hard, but they are paid accordingly. They get extras and the staff still walks around with a big smile. There is sometimes a change of staff, but most of them have been working there for years.
We always talk about each other with respect.
Working with Thais since 1993: I notice that Thais have a lot of trouble making decisions, especially when something costs money. They can do arithmetic very poorly, general knowledge is moderate to very poor. Education level: poor. We would call bachelor VWO. Knowledge of English: somewhere between Thailish and Thenglish.
Come up with an idea yourself, find a possibility yourself, so that something suddenly becomes possible.. forget it. Always need a BOZZ that tells them what and when to do something, preferably something they've already done 10x or seen 100x. Completely closed off from any criticism (loss of face) and certainly not from a farang, who after all comes to tell / command something in THEIR Free Country.
Explaining why: a waste of time, just giving directions, one assignment at a time and constantly taking into account the fact that they always manage to find a second one from a given option that goes wrong. Continuously checking whether they have done something in the set time. Hence: having routine work done. Only a very thin layer, often women of Chinese descent, is able to develop their own initiatives and bring them to a successful conclusion. So.. use THOSE as an intermediate layer. Yes,. they treat the Thai very hard.
Entrepreneurship is also something you have to lie to. I sometimes get the impression that many farang just start something inappropriately, mainly to be able to stay in Thailand. But not only the farang also the Thai think this way. My girlfriend also wanted to start something, all fine so she rented a cutting at a market, also sell some food. Didn't think about it well in advance, that whole market didn't work, and what she eventually sold left her with zero baht. Finally, after a few weeks, she got rid of her cutting and went back to work.
In any case, I would not start it myself, 2 reasons I am 1. too impatient with customers who are difficult and 2. too impatient with staff who are difficult.
So if I ever started a business there, I would start myself with a Thai manager, which costs a little extra, but it will pay for itself if he or she knows the tricks of the trade. Of course keep checking the books etc.
What HansNL writes is correct that many do, cutting salary if they are late and no or few vacation days, if they want more time off, it will also cost them money.
There is something else that plays a role in terms of work in Thailand and then you come back to that manager. In Thailand, people usually don't apply for jobs like we do in the Netherlands, but almost all jobs go through circles of acquaintances or work in the past. For example, my girlfriend works for an export company through an acquaintance who used to be chief of human resources at a company where she worked. A manager in Thailand must therefore have another characteristic, in addition to taking on the day-to-day management, he must also be able to gather the right people around him. Not family and other friends, but good workers.
In Thailand and other SE Asian countries, they also have a very strong hierarchy within a company, and loosing face does indeed play a role. I myself have had a lot to do with Indonesians in the deep sea, for example, that works almost exactly the same. You had 1 boatswain, and 6 sailors. You can just see that as a small business. The boatswain was usually quite old and he really did not take orders from a young mate. Until you were the chief officer, then you were actually the boss. When the work was handed out, you called the boatswain at the office, who gave you a note with activities. Then he arranged who was going to do what. That gave him prestige, after all, he arranges the daily planning. He himself had no other jobs or a few small ones, his only job was to keep the 6 others working. If it was not to your satisfaction, you did not give the sailor but the boatswain on his fagot. He then arranged it further by taking the sailor to the aft deck, with some especially the young sailors even just getting a slap on the ears, but they made sure that they did so out of sight of you. In this way they maintained their own position and as a Westerner you should not interfere with that. If you gave the bosun on his fagot, you did it privately out of sight of the rest. If he suffered from loss of face, the rest of the crew would become lazy and that was of course not the intention. And money was also a means of pressure there. The sailors did 2 hours overtime every day and every Saturday and Sunday they also did overtime. Every Sunday afternoon they came by with their timesheet, if you realized that they were doing nothing for half an hour every day, for example, you just crossed that half hour off the timesheet, then that was over immediately.
Taco :: I am also very curious about that, fortunately we have little to do with staff, but the times we need someone for a few days or longer, it is difficult to get hold of someone. If we have found someone who happens to be wants to work sometimes, we first ask about his last or current salary, we usually add 40-50% on top of that. While working he or she gets a bucket with ice and drinking water, in between a few times an M150 or a redbull. At noon my (Thai) wife makes sure there is food so all in all they don't lack anything. In the evening also a beer to take home. If you agree for the next day at 8 o'clock then you can you usually call around 9 o'clock where he or she is staying. 9 out of 10 times they are sick or have another excuse that they have to babysit or something like that. It is not easy to work with Thai people.
Also see it regularly in the family that they just stay at home for a day instead of going to work, most employers allow them to do this for 3 days and if they do that for longer than 3 days they can stay at home. Sometimes feel sorry for the Thai employers who have to plan a bit in connection with customers and that the driver just doesn't feel like it in the morning or stays at home,
Farang who start a business in Thailand must:
1. Don't have too high expectations of the staff
2. Be very patient
3. Maintain a simple system
4. Always keep smiling
I do think that anyone who goes to live in another country and or runs a business there should adapt to the people and the country and not the other way around. Otherwise stay in your own country. First and foremost, I think that person should already learn the language, that's a must. Not easy, I admit, but at least one can try. Why should a Spaniard or a Thai , ect speak English? It is effectively easier, but for the farang or foreigner. In England or France they don't speak Dutch either!
So Agnes has to learn Thai every tourist, otherwise he can't explain anything in the hotel.
We work almost exclusively with Dutch people, and it is great that the manager speaks English, otherwise I could pack for the Netherlands.
Dear Pim,
Agnes' statement is clear and I agree with her. It is up to the farang who come to live in Thailand or want to start a business to join. Among other things by learning the Thai language. Generally speaking, there is a resistance to empathizing with farang. This has to do with ethnocentrism, but perhaps another time. It is not up to the Thai to simply adapt to the farang and therefore speak English. It is also not just obvious that you only work with Dutch people. There is also something to be said about that: you are in Thailand after all.
Regards, Ruud
Some time ago there was an excellent article on Thailandblog about Thai culture in business life. I advise anyone who has an interest in this to read that article in detail to get an idea of what the relationship between employees and employers is like. An educational article that you can use to your advantage, so that 'the only thing left' is to be a farang!
You mean that article about patronage?!
That was indeed an excellent article by Chris de Boer! I almost saved that knowledge in the back of my mind.
https://www.thailandblog.nl/achtergrond/wiens-brood-men-eet/
I have been working in construction here for a few years and started with thai employees together with the owner of a land company.
I will never forget the first days the machines came to the land.
And a thai came and put a mat on the floor and went to sleep
and wake up at 12 o'clock, go eat, come back and sleep again.
The next day the same except for one thing, he once got diesel
I got into a conversation with him 3 days later
Asked where he worked, he said he worked for the land company
I said I had a very good boss, he complained that he had to work very hard
And he meant it seriously.
I asked the owner if he really worked for him, he said yes.
And told me he knew he wasn't doing anything but yes he was family and so he couldn't do anything else
He further said that it was also very difficult for him to find decent staff
A Thai actually does not want to work yes in a store / shop with air conditioning and not too heavy
Switched to Burmese employees in the second year and what a relief that cannot be compared
Arrive on time, work hard, never complain no matter how hard it is
Sometimes I think that's too heavy I say that too and they laugh once
And a little later they all work together and the job is incredible
I have to say I pay more than if they work at thai
Pay the doctor if something happens
We go out for dinner every once in a while or I rent a boat to fish
I treat them the same as my staff in the Netherlands
No problem with anything, it works perfectly
But I'm lucky because if something happens at home they go understandably
No more Thai workers for me
When I read the sentence in this article: “Good knowledge of Thai customs and showing understanding for sometimes different views on work regularly breaks those entrepreneurs.” my hairs stand on end…!!.. Especially when I read “different view on work”… In most cases you can translate “other view on work” by WORKSHHY!!! and to say the least, and I don't want to get rude here, otherwise I would have to use another choice of words here.
Has anyone on this blog seen one Thai who loves his job? who shows some motivation or commitment? who shows any form of professional love or any pride in his “work”??? Not to mention professional seriousness and expertise.
I've been coming here for over 10 years, never met one like it.
They do want to acquire the maximum amount of money in the shortest possible time (didn't say earn). They have already been spoiled up to their ears by the farangs, but they cannot cope with it. That's the unsalted truth. Whether you like Thai or not doesn't matter here. The truth may be said.
I know, many farangs hold a different opinion, for many reasons. Some never really had contact with the Thai people or live with entrenched prejudices.
I find the statement (title) “Farang shopkeepers treat staff badly” very misleading and I assume that this is really the case. I myself am not a tradesman, but I think that this is not at all the way it is presented.
Moderator: sentence removed, is offensive.
I fully agree with this position.
I'm going to tell you my story and can only note that there is
1. Hard workers are indeed there (lunchtime is the most important time of the day)
2. The level of education is really too low for most people
3. Losing face is the worst
4. Mutual jealousy can ruin things for days
5. When it comes to money they have no empathy neither for the bag nor for each other (they were almost all people from very wealthy circles). There was even one who wanted to show this by organizing a wedding that cost more than 2.5 million baht..
Owned a large company in Bangkok with 45 employees and 1800 contracted employees. One of the managers let things go completely wrong and kept it hidden for a long time until another employee showed me the evidence of the problem. The books had indeed been tampered with.
THE manager herself had not noticed a mistake and let it go off the rails until she noticed it herself and in order not to lose face she had not solved the problems and covered the potty with the cloak of the elevator and smiling. Until…
Had to close the company with huge losses, the employees wanted their severance payment of 3 months and then due to a mistake made by the lawyer, I was given another 3 months.
I had treated them MORE than excellently for years and when it came down to it, the shirt was closer to them than the skirt and they opted for termination and 6 months' notice (imposed on me by the social inspectorate on the spot). As far as knowledge and skills are concerned: extremely low and they were all university graduates in the office. Peil? – couldn't be lower. I improved their English by having them study English for free twice a week... speaking was fine, but when it came to writing things went terribly wrong. I cannot say that they did not work hard and that at the end of the day all the work volume was done at that time, they were extremely friendly to me and working on Saturdays or Sundays or until late at night was never a problem, so I have no complaints about commitment. However, I also had very skilled Thais come to my house, but they had studied abroad. and no longer available to work as a clerk or office manager and they therefore wanted exorbitant wages. Knowing that ALL employees had a salary between 2 and 20 baht, it was still a disillusionment to see that everyone turned against me to get all the advance notice. If a Belgian came along who was arranging his affairs with the company's money, that made the matter complete (he was the CFO).
Did everything go wrong no: the first years were a dream when we were in a small office with 20 people
Staff over there? Per man / woman more, your worries increase exponentially.
The responses taken so far to me.
May I ventilate a preliminary conclusion?
Yes?
Thank you!
Wasn't it about 400-500 years ago?
A Dutchman working for the VOC?
Who wrote in a document that the Thai were kind of lazy?
I think it still is.
@HansNL You are referring to Jeremias van Vliet, the then director of the trading factory of the VOC in Ayutthaya. See my article 'The king is a tyrant and the Siamese are capricious'. Van Vliet wrote about the Siamese: 'The Siamese are capricious, cowardly, suspicious and garrulous; they lie and cheat.' He did not write that they were lazy. See: http://www.dickvanderlugt.nl/buitenland/van-vliets-siam/
Dear Mr Geleijnse,
My sunglasses won't change the situation here much, it won't be the issue.
What I read in Fluminis's response doesn't that come down to the same thing??
That man even has 10 years EXPERIENCE with Thais and did everything possible and impossible to have an appropriate relationship with them, with the result ... you just have to read one yourself.
When I said "not one" it is meant to be proverbial, at least I can't remember one. I already understand your reaction, now I will probably suffer from amnesia, right?
Even if there were a few who deviate from that lazy easy-going pattern, the exceptions still prove the rule. Is that perhaps clearer?
Moderator: Please stop chatting now
A good example of one of the best restaurants in pattaya is Mata Hari, who has had almost the same good staff and manager for years, pays well and is fair and successful!
there are always good and bad examples.
After more than 10 years of experience with Thai staff, I can say that paying well, knowing the culture well, being able to read, write and speak the language, respecting the staff, etc., does not matter that much.
The Thai live from day to day no matter how well it is with the Farang worker. As a manager you have to try to pick out just that one out of 100 Thai people who want to achieve more in life and therefore don't live from day to day and just leave from one day to the next because the shop in the arkt of a real cousin is closed for a while. 5 days without help.
Rather lazy than tired money for many Thais and the most important aspect is not taking any responsibility. Because if things really go wrong because of them, they just never show up again…..you don't have to suffer the consequences of your mistakes.
1. Personnel hired for the construction of a house. Paid 50% more than the prevailing wage. After the first day of work, the employee has a moped accident in the evening in his private time, very drunk. We want to help his family with baby. Do what no Thai employer does; pay his wages for a few weeks, bring his wife food and clothing, show us almost every day.
To our surprise, after a few weeks, the man is no longer at home, sorry he has a new job with family, says his wife. In the evening she visits us again to ask if she can get a few more weeks' wages.
Thai staff seems like a nightmare to manage but you can never get out of employing at least 4 due to the rules.
Go pay 4 men every month with your small business, now that's not so bad, but if they also perform little.
2. In our shop in the street, we had the daughter of the neighbor across the street as an employee for 2 years. Same problems every day, too late, or I don't feel well. Simple work, tidying something up, cleaning or otherwise helping, only with great reluctance.
Do ask weekly if she could take something from the store (or preferably without asking) for home, if she could borrow money (which never or only came back under duress). Asking for a raise on a regular basis when we paid 50% more than any other retailer.
If family, friends or acquaintances were visiting, stay away without consultation. Very offended if you said anything about it.
Never any own initiative. If there were customers in the store, don't automatically help, after all, we were nearby, etc.
Finally sent away after 2 years, 2 years too late.
3. It is not only impossible for falang employers but also for Thai employers to find decent employees. Thai knowledge / employer with a shoe factory employs an assistant manager who must take care of incoming transport / goods. For weeks, all order forms etc. go wrong, nothing is right. Just friendly conversation about this results in the employee immediately walking away. She was not served by any criticism.
If you do business here you have to adopt the Thai mentality, or be drunk all day, otherwise you will go crazy. My contractor had 40 people working last month, and suddenly I had to pay an extra 30.000 baht because they blackmailed him that they didn't want 300 but 400 a day. I have also had dramatic experiences and have never been able to teach them anything, because they have no morals or sense of responsibility, except for a few. I could write a whole book about that, but keep it short, it is a punishment to have to work with Thais. . Today they come and tomorrow you won't see them again, and they have never heard of canceling. I will wait until 2015 then I will get back to work, but with Cambodians, Burmese and Filipinos who are here legally because of the Asean Community. are allowed to work. The Thai Chinese hate us and accuse me of paying them too much and spoiling them. But they treat the Thais like dogs and coincidentally this works, because they have respect for them, despite the fact that they pay poorly. I recently got into an argument with an acquaintance who always kicked his dog when he came home, but this poor dog is always very happy when his owner comes home. Disrespectful behavior is apparently appreciated here, but certainly not from us because if we treat the Thais badly or do not pay, the knives are sharpened. What a gift the Asean Community in 2015, because then the Thais also have to learn to work and show a sense of responsibility. But knowing the Thais, this will take a lot of effort, because they are not going to just accept this, as we recently saw in Phuket with the Russians.
4. Not only the falang, but also the Thai employer is facing the same problem. For 3 years I have been able to experience daily how our Thai friends have seen a garage company go to the buttons because of staff.
As soon as the employer was not on top of it, the employee stopped working, did not know what to do, if only how to wash a car. Discussing and demonstrating the same activities every day, without any result.
No initiative and only complaining. Tired every hour, having a drink, sleeping during working hours and then being annoyed when a customer showed up.
Got paid well, small party every Friday with drinks and snacks. If an employee had problems at home (always) help and borrowing money was normal. Regularly with a whole club long weekend at the expense of the boss to eg Loei or something else was of little use.
Tools disappeared. Working was only possible in the evenings, doing odd jobs for family and friends in the employer's workshop and materials at their own expense.
Is someone sick in the family? employees stayed at home, of course always without notice.
Wekgever continuously walking on his toes. One word of criticism and staff walk away.
5. We have been able to experience our Thai contractor for years, he is successful and his company is still running like a train. Unfortunately not thanks to but more in spite of his staff.
It is almost impossible for him to find staff, especially skilled ones. Making appointments and working on time is absolutely impossible. They are there on Monday, on Tuesday a family member is sick, someone is getting married, divorced or dead and they don't come for 3 days without saying anything. Not paying makes no difference.
He has learned not to say anything about it, accepts almost every situation, otherwise he has no staff. As a result, agreements with customers are almost impossible. He often does rush jobs on his own until late in the evening hours.
If it rains at 8 a.m. and is dry at 9 a.m., staff will not come for the rest of the day.
6. Another problem many small employers face. Do not pay staff per month, at most per week and preferably per job or per day.
Experienced more than once when they paid staff for a longer period of time, so a high amount (or extra bonus with new year, etc.) they did not appear the following week. They didn't need money yet and always had an excuse why they didn't come until a week later.
Experienced with our own contractor that he had major problems with it if we wanted to give his staff an extra because of the completion of a job or a holiday. Then they won't come tomorrow was his response, do make a drink.
7. Where things are going well.
At any 7-11 shop. Air conditioning, good salary and prestige. At least 8.000 bath, working in the evening and at night is no problem. 7-11 gives status. May even require every employee/star to have at least completed high school or higher.
Or even better a job at the municipality or other government organization, with a uniform with impossible bars and stripes. Ranks give prestige, even if the wages are below the minimum wage.
The pinnacle of a job in a village or small town is a job with the local police. Poverty salary but huge prestige and always ready when your family or friends are in trouble and then earn extra money with help and services, don't want to use another word.
Where are all those blog readers who are always so positive about Thai society?
In the above reactions, entire population groups are portrayed as lazy, stupid.
It cannot be the case that Thai companies can only run on lazy and stupid Thais and that we foreigners know better. We may want to sit in the front row for some satangs.
Those Thais are happy with it. It's their style of work. Nobody asks a foreigner to start a business here.
Cor van Kampen.
Totally wrong Cor.
Once my girlfriend asked me to open a PC shop for her and her brother, but a lot of money wasted.
A Thai, project developer wanted to rent the property from me and let me do it together, even more bad luck, all my money is almost gone!
The family jumped in and gave us 34 rai of land to grow trees, so a new company was founded.
Now I have an import company with Haring with the family, I am learning how to deal with staff.
But don't tell stories that no one wants to start a business here.
If Tesco and companies like that had not started, hundreds of thousands would still be sitting on the Kao Laos instead of clogging the roads in Bangkok with their cars on their way to work for a foreign company.
Moderator: respond to article and not only to each other, that's chatting.
Dear Cor van Kampen,
I am always positive when it comes to the Thai so I feel compelled to respond.
I don't live in Thailand yet. So I didn't run a business there, so I can
not give an opinion what it is like to work with the Thai. However, I can tell you that my Thai wife does not comply with anything that is said here. she is definitely a hard worker
not stupid has a great sense of responsibility. She has been working in nursing for 20 years
Demented elderly she is never too late always too early at least fifteen minutes. Always leaves too late. If she sometimes has to share medicines in several living rooms due to staff shortages, she will be working on this for a long time at home. And sometimes gets out of bed at night and then drives to the nursing home to check that everything is okay.
I am therefore slowly starting to believe that I am married to a wonder of the world
Sincerely, Keith
8. Who often soak hard. From 8 a.m. to often 10 p.m., 7 days a week. That small independent entrepreneur, shopkeeper with his family.
All in all my experiences personally or very closely, not every Thai is lazy. It seems that people don't understand. No work ethic whatsoever. People live today and worry about tomorrow is not an option.
It lacks self-respect, sense of responsibility and any initiative.
Why ? Would like to look for it at my daughter's school. Own initiative and critical questions are not appreciated. Learn by heart, listen to the teacher (if he happens to be there and has nothing else), and be sociable.
Or would like to look at the story of her mother, who went to school until 20 years (university as every secondary school is called here) got every possible piece of paper and after this piece of paper threw all the textbooks in a corner and forgot everything.
The school system is a desperation. Self-initiative is suppressed, together like a herd standing in line, the same uniform (no objection in itself) and singing the school song is important, Learning to learn is secondary or unwanted, better learn how to follow and leave the real enterprise to the 5% of the country's elite.
A new primary/secondary vocational school has just opened in our village. Beautiful building, beautiful classrooms, huge piles of books. Unfortunately no practice rooms, no tools, no machines. How do you want to learn a technical profession.
11.
Oh yes, I'm Falang. Means that I'm actually not allowed to have an opinion about 1 to 10, I have to adapt to the culture or else I have to go home.
I don't speak enough Thai, so I don't understand anything about working or doing business.
How do I enjoy life in Thailand? just like the three monkeys; hear nothing, see nothing, speak nothing. Oh yes.. and bring money, laugh at everything and accept everything. Thailand the center of the world, the land of the free. You must be Thai.
Critical ?? no, more amazed every day … also about myself because despite myself I still like it here. Because everyone leaves me alone, I can do what I want for the most part, so I let the Thai do what he wants too. Very honest.
Thanks for the many responses, apparently it was a subject that appealed to many. My (provisional) conclusion is, however, that the Proposition is not so far off the mark. The reactions often point to the bad qualities of the Thai, but too little self-esteem is given: "I'm doing well, but yes, those stupid and lazy Thais, hey!"
I therefore fully agree with Cor van Kampen, who notes that not all Thai companies can only work with lazy and stupid Thais. It is also rightly noted elsewhere that you are in Thailand and therefore have to take into account the manners and customs of that country. Even if all the negative comments about the Thais are correct, you still have to deal with it as a trader.
There is more good advice in the responses, such as learning the language, appointing a local manager, focusing your own behavior on Thai and not on how you were used to it in your home country.
If anyone thinks that Thai staff should dance to their tune, I advise them to stop. Then look for something else, go to a neighboring country for example - as was suggested -, but don't be fooled in that area, because there too there are enough stings, traps and pitfalls for the foreign trader. After all, the neighbor's grass is always greener!
I recently spoke to a Dutch entrepreneur in Thailand. He complained that it is so difficult to find staff (!?!). It was an office job, well paid and air conditioned.
He was not very pleased with his current Thai workforce. His complaint: No matter how busy it is at 17.00 pm they turn off the computer and go home. Myself and my partner are still working until 22.00 p.m.….
In itself, this is not unique to Thailand. You can also see that in the Netherlands. Nevertheless, striking.
You don't know the entrepreneur and his situation, so speaking of blabbering...
The company is not based in Bangkok, which already makes a difference. He must employ an x number of Thais to comply with the rules. He has been working for more than two years to find suitable staff and does not make ridiculous demands.
The problem is OF COURSE with the Thai, I myself am a teacher here and although I get paid for 30 hours, the Thai director expects me to be there for about 45 hours, because foreigners simply get paid more than the Thai (as if that were my debt).
The foreigners (I work with a few Filipinos, a Ghanaian, a Frenchman, a German and an American) have to use a time clock (!!!) and the Thais are allowed to arrive about 20-30 minutes late .
any minute late and it will be taken directly from my wages.
When the class went to meditation course I was the only teacher present, all the thai were barbecuing and drinking of course.
I am expected to teach in the English language, but 90% of the children do not understand English or only a little bit.
I have to teach them grammar when I already know my students won't understand anyway.
If something really needs to be changed here, it is the Thai mentality.
corruption should be tackled on a large scale, working conditions for thai and farang should be improved, and most importantly, one should listen carefully to farang who understand certain things, instead of being afraid of losing face.
If you believe that only your opinion is the only correct one then you will never learn anything !!!
Many Thais discriminate despite the respectful attitude of students and most colleagues here.
Luckily I found another job because I can't take this…
Looking at the story and the reactions: in fact, this can be seen in two types of reasons to start a company:
a) you want to continue living in Thailand and are looking for work. Then in the form of your own business. Unfortunately, then you have to adapt to the Thai mentality and just accept what you can make of it, starting with (much) less revenues than what could have been. And otherwise: stop and go, because getting a Thai to understand is more difficult than teaching an elephant to fly.
b) the choice exists between Thailand and elsewhere. For an economy as dependent on exports as the Thai one, this is very important.
Once had a discussion with a French Ir, living in TH and myself, buying in TH since 1977, lived there from 93-94 and own import company of tropical foodstuffs since 1995. I think the Thai economy lost 95% of their export opportunities, but the Frenchman wanted to put it at 98%; by laziness, stupidity, insufficient knowledge and interest.
I think this is clear enough.
A statement such as the Farang tradesman treats his employees badly, is of course cat on the bacon. The examples that should show that the cause of that problem lies with the other person are flying around you. One frustration has not yet been expressed, or the other is already in the making. Sometimes interspersed with immense misunderstanding about how good intentions are not responded to. But actually: the statement that farang (tradespeople) treat themselves badly is much more relevant, although it does not have to be dramatic, and something can be done about it.
The East is not the West. There is no point in reasoning from any western perspective. No Western perspective approaches any Eastern principle or priority whatsoever: the approach to a job is different than expected because, among other things, people do not naturally think in terms of eg planning. Starting a business fails because, among other things, content is not given in advance, eg to the concept of cost ratio. Commitment to a study or training is not always accompanied at the same time by, for example, appreciation for the diploma to be obtained, and the awareness of owning it.
The East has traditionally had a hierarchical world view, and it has a firm belief that those in higher positions make the right decisions. It is only in recent decades that the free market economy has spread to the East, and it is slowly becoming clear that a more empowered attitude is required. You are only at the beginning.
The religious mindset that rejects the material world, a lack of belief in the idea of human progress, an innate law-abidingness, and a lack of critical questioning: these elements of Eastern societies create a gap with Western thinking. In addition, the place of the individual is still subservient, the ruling aristocracy is thought to be above the law, and the importance of a good education system is slowly seeping through.
It is clear that damage is suffered from all this: the negative consequences for, for example, the individual are widely measured in the various reactions.
Farang would greatly enjoy themselves and benefit from it if they were much more concerned about the backgrounds of (the emergence of) Eastern thinking and working methods, and how that acquired knowledge, bundled together with the Western lead they received, can actually be converted. put in new behaviour. (Large companies also only send their managers after thorough training.)
Farang participate in Thai life on a micro level. They have to do with the ordinary Thai as he presents himself with all his belongings. And often that is not much. With everything that has been presented to him for years, what is worth to him, what makes him proud, what he lives for and wants to pass on to future generations: however harsh it may be, the opposite is his share.
This level is about understanding and respect. Also consider how the Thai experiences it when he sees how the Farang presents himself to him.
It's not about extra rewards, or about "a bucket of ice and drinking water and a few redbulls" as described. Farang come to Thailand because their pension and state pension yields more; they come to Thailand because a last and long-lasting love affair is still ahead, they come to Thailand because wishes come true here that have long since been relegated to the realm of fables in the Netherlands. The Dutch are known to quickly forget their own personal history.
Dim a bit, take a few steps back, be satisfied with a little less – the lead is already so much more, realize that you are lucky that it can all be beautiful after all, meow less and make more effort to understand the culture, understand that if the Thais themselves cannot manage to find decent staff…, that if the Thai itself does not always understand the attitude of his fellow man…., do not harbor insurmountable expectations, fit in and fit in with the pace and ins and outs of Thai society in its entirely, and above all: realizing to be in a country that is completely opposite to the country of origin, and that lies in a completely different direction: the East.
All that would be to the Farang's credit and perhaps his frustration tolerance will increase a bit.
For the enthusiast:
http://opeconomica.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/kishore-mahbubani-can-asians-think.pdf
Good luck, Rudolf
We have a Thai restaurant in the Netherlands. In the initial phase, we only used Thai personnel (mainly women) for the misse en place event, but we have abandoned that. Apart from my Thai wife (the cook) and a Thai cook when busy, we only work with Dutch staff.
We no longer have the feeling that we as managers have to walk like an elephant through a china shop and I can assure you that is a relief!