Statement of the week: Living in two worlds, you shouldn't want that
In recent months there have been a striking number of topics on this blog that have or touch on the theme of staying in the Netherlands AND in Thailand: health insurance when you are retired, where to go if you have to leave Thailand, what to do with your house in the home country if you stay in Thailand for many months a year, possibly stricter conditions for foreigners to enter or stay in Thailand etc. etc.
This gave me the idea of this statement. I am concerned here with the Dutch/Belgian expats who have a relationship in Thailand (or are building it) with a Thai partner (man/woman). So not so much about expats who spend the winter here in Thailand with their Dutch/Belgian partner. They also have much less to do with living in two worlds because as a couple they only represent one world.
Money or not?
If I read it all like this, there is a considerable number of expats who combine a stay in their home country with a long stay (long = more than a normal holiday of say 6 weeks) in Thailand. And although they would probably like that for whom it is not an option to bring the partner to the home country for all kinds of reasons, one of the most important of which is that the Thai partner does not want to or cannot.
As a rule, the partners of these expats do not come from the rich Thai family, but from the middle class and poorer Thais. This means that financial support from a foreign partner is a (very) welcome addition to one's own (often low) income. I think that is also an important part of the love relationship. An expat who does not wish to support his lover in Thailand is considered selfish and loveless (also in the home country, by the way). For the financial contribution as such, it does not matter whether the expat always stays in Thailand or a few months a year in the home country resides. In my opinion, for a good and lasting relationship it does matter whether you are always there or not. Living far from each other undeniably has many disadvantages, the most important of which are emotional ones. Skyping every day can't replace real human contact in my opinion and doesn't give you a real idea of what really happened in Thailand that day.
Why then do so many expats continue to commute between Thailand and their home country with a Thai partner? I don't think because people miss the Zeeland mussels, licorice or salty herring so much. I don't think because people can't handle the hot weather in Thailand very well. They are mainly financially related and emotional reasons. Financial: higher salaries in the home country, state pension rights, pension accrual, own house (that people do not want to sell), entitlement to provisions for medical expenses, disability, incapacity for work and unemployment. Emotionally, the contact with close family (children and grandchildren) and the circle of friends in the homeland counts.
For a really good and lasting relationship you have to make choices. Many people have also done that in the past when they married for the first time: living together, perhaps a different place of residence (for one of them), different leisure activities, partly different circle of friends. I think you should do the same if you want to build a relationship with a Thai partner. That costs pain, that also costs money, that costs (social) security, that is associated with certain risks, but also with certain returns in love and warmth. If you want to keep eating both ways, you shouldn't be surprised if that falls apart at a certain moment. And if you are so attached to all the social services in the home country, come to Thailand for a holiday, but do not try (and promise) to build a relationship with a Thai partner.
In short: You shouldn't want to live in two worlds. You limit your own happiness, you limit the happiness of your Thai partner.
If you agree or strongly disagree with the statement, comment and explain why.
Eating 2 wallets suits me fine.
I have been a loyal Thailand visitor for 11 years now. Initially I went to Thailand 2 or 3 times a year, each time for 3 weeks to put the flowers outside.
Since 5 years I have a partner in Thailand. I commute back and forth to Thailand as before, 2 to 3 times a year but now for 60 days each time.
I just turned 50 so I still have to work. I have a job that allows me to work double shifts, which also allows me to take a lot off. So I work hard for 3 months, double shift, 7 days out of 7 to be able to be with my loved one for 2 months.
We have contact every day through Line, but when we see each other again after 3 months it is great love.
I think every situation is unique and different and that is why I disagree with the statement that you should try (and promise) not to build a relationship with a Thai partner.
Strongly disagree.
That is a choice that everyone makes on personal grounds (mentioned in the above piece).
In addition, it is not equally businesslike for everyone to take the plunge.
Roel has delighted us with a 10-part story about his life. Cheers.
The writer of this piece has his own opinion, Chapeau.
But everyone has his or her own opinion about how to organize your life and how to deal with your relationship. Whether or not to support the (poor) in-laws, etc.
Don't think I'm jealous or envious of others, my food is bought.
I support my mother-in-law with 2000 Thb per month, another brother-in-law (who earns more than me) with 3000 Thb per month and the other 5 children she has with 0 Thb.
When we visit, the pantry is replenished about 3 times a year, defective appliances are replaced and some new clothes are added. That's it. We cannot and do not want to contribute more. (neither is necessary, because she can live well on that money and has never complained, does have her own house, so no living costs)
And what others think about it, I don't care.
We also regularly stay in NL and regularly in TH. and that suits us fine, living in 2 worlds.
You don't miss the Dutch pot and my wife doesn't miss the Thai pot.
I left the Netherlands in 2002 and have been back once in all those years, for a week, because I had to arrange something in person. I chose to live in Cambodia and I like it. I have no reason whatsoever to visit the Netherlands, let alone to live there again. On that basis, I fully agree with the statement.
Do you also receive your state pension in Cambodia?
Yes, but with a 20% discount because Cambodia has no treaty with the Netherlands. I take that discount for granted, because I think life in Cambodia is much nicer than living in Thailand or the Philippines, wherever I have lived. Why I love living in Cambodia so much? The people, here the smile is real.
Completely disagree. As a food fanatic I do miss my Amsterdam environment in my own house. I then enjoy that for 2-3 months, enjoy my circle of friends, the freedom, you name it. In addition, I also spend 2/3 months traveling in Europe, enjoying Greece, Portugal, visiting friends all over the world…
Yes, I have a family in Thailand, wife and child, we have a nice house, we lack nothing in terms of comfort, I don't even have to work anymore (I'm far from old age pension), but my freedom is dear to me and my wife thinks that's fine.
So we found a middle ground, and we're both happy with that. I even think that if we lived together permanently in the Netherlands or Spain, there would be many more problems.
I think that you view the situation too much through Western (Dutch?) glasses.
In Thailand, the man often works for a large part of the time in a place other than where the wife lives.
Children often do not live with their parents, but with their grandparents.
That seems to generally work well in Thailand.
I'm not saying that parents won't miss their children and vice versa, but it generally doesn't seem to cause any major problems or frustrations.
I see a lot of accidents in my own environment with this as a background. Lots of divorces. Educators warned about the situation you describe not so long ago. Unhinged young people in the countryside who do not listen to their grandparents (drugs, alcohol, moped gangs) and feel abandoned by their parents. And grandparents who, because of their 'old-fashioned' attitude and lack of flexibility, cannot raise children adequately.
That is exactly one extreme with the other, what Ruud writes is what I experience here in most cases, what Chris writes, I do indeed see here, that things go wrong with some families, which is also quite normal in my eyes, in general it's okay.
I myself stay an average of 4 months – winter time indeed – in Thailand. My girlfriend has a permanent residence permit for the Netherlands and we are together in the Netherlands for an average of 5 to 6 months.
So in general I am alone for 2,5 months, although I sometimes go to Thailand in the summer or she comes to the Netherlands one more time.
This suits both of us very well, partly because my girlfriend is very well grounded in the Netherlands. So I don't fully understand the statement.
totally agree. I don't want to live in Thailand forever. My wife now lives in the Netherlands but wants to return in a few years. Our solution is the way you do it,
I would love to choose Thailand and my Thai relationship, were it not for the impossibility. I'm over 80 and no 'free' insurance will accept me. I am and will remain bound by Dutch health insurance. The commute, the double rent and living expenses in Thailand and at home, everything is becoming more and more expensive. For me it looks like I don't have to choose between Thailand + relationship and the Netherlands, but that I will simply have no choice but to sit in the Netherlands and sour
Dear Hans.
Of course you are not bound by health insurance in the Netherlands. You only feel that way. What do you pay attention to to live in Thailand without health insurance? A lot of Thai people don't have that either.
So the question is: maybe live shorter (and that's only the question if you're happy; happy people live longer, research shows) without health insurance or sour in the Netherlands so that you need your health insurance every year?
I would know.
Sorry, but above 60 and then without health insurance a “stupid decision, even the state hospitals know where to find the falang these days.
What if something really happens to you cancer - break a hip - a tia, all risk factors that you run when you / we get older, insurance is not just hesitant to insure the elderly, I think it's a huge gamble.
And illness can strike like a bolt from heaven and what if a state hospital sends you to a (much more expensive) hospital because they may not have the knowledge to help you?
Then you will quickly run out of your savings, and then return to the Netherlands penniless?
I was recently diagnosed with prostate cancer, just stand there and you will end up in a merry-go-round, you will have a language barrier, I had to take a PSA test in a state hospital, I thought it was nice and cheap, except for ten euros, the same price as in the Netherlands, a Thai girlfriend was shocked by the price “expensive, the only thing she could spend was 3 times the price of what a Thai paid. And this repeats itself 4 times a year, including an MRI once a year for the rest of my life. The state hospitals also want to eat the Falang cake.
For fun I also had a conversation with a Urologist who explained in almost unintelligible English that for an operation I really had to go to another hospital.
A Thai thinks that today I am dead and tomorrow I will be back, but for us it is a bit different.
No, walking around uninsured is “at our age, Russian roulette, never do it.
Come on Hans, don't be so depressed, you're only 80 and you're giving up! ….and what I read here, really only about the Dutch health insurance. Forget the commute and rent in the Netherlands, choose your love and Thailand, the costs are not too bad here, and a state hospital does not outweigh the health insurance in the Netherlands, would say come here, and enjoy your life together here in Thailand.
I am over 70 myself and have opted for Thailand 100%, and therefore without health insurance.
The happiness of this outweighs the risks I run as a (former) heart patient.
I have never been to a doctor in the almost 6 years that I have lived here, so save a lot on medical costs here.
Moreover, many minor ailments that I used to have in Holland have completely disappeared here.
Chris de Boer's statement is incorrect. It makes you seem morally wrong if you don't live with your partner 12 months out of the year. He says in his statement: you eat both ways, with which he points the finger at people. He conveniently forgets that people may have reasons for choosing to live together for parts of a calendar year. That choice is theirs!
In the second part of his argument, he tells us that living together completely means that one limits the happiness of the other. Such a statement does not hold, of course, is nonsense. Every relationship is different and 2 people get to work with each other for their own unique reasons How they do that, that's up to them. One couple goes to live in the Netherlands, the other in Thailand, yet others decide to give shape to their relationship partly in the Netherlands or Thailand. There is nothing wrong with that, and certainly does not limit mutual or individual happiness. On the contrary: if the bounced option is what one would like, this promotes acceptance of the decision and thus the quality of the relationship.
Chris de Boer says: for a really good and lasting relationship you have to make choices. He's right about that. I would leave out the word “real” because a relationship will last if you make good choices. That could be because it is not possible to live together for 12 months of the year. Such an option is apparently not an option for Chris de Boer, and the way he and his partner interpret their relationship is the only good way. But that is of course a totally wrong perception on his part.
The financial aspect remains somewhat underexposed. It costs quite a bit to travel back and forth with a partner, so I don't do that. Support from family is of course only possible if you have the means. Am I a cheap charlie then? No, but I didn't foresee all the consequences beforehand. I am now trying to survive and I am regularly in the Netherlands because of the health insurance. It is a pity that my partner cannot understand that there is no money for all kinds of fun things. Even after 7 years of marriage, I apparently remain the rich farang. I love going to the Netherlands after a few months in Thailand. Of course I then miss my wife and especially my daughter again after a few weeks in the Netherlands. They are less affected by this because it is indeed more common in Thailand that fathers are away for a long time. I can't imagine anyone making this choice in advance, but is it really a matter of choice or much more something that happened to us and that we are now making the best of?
For me it was simple I was young and wanted children.
So after living in the Netherlands for a number of years, we had to choose.
We chose Thailand and made a nice family there.
With children, in my opinion it is a bad thing if dad has to live in the Netherlands for 6 months.
But more importantly, I can't go that long without my wife and kids.
So it continues to cross off the minuses and pluses for a choice.
It has worked out well for me, I have been living here for 14 years now.
I also think it depends how old you are when you come here to Thailand…
If you no longer have to work and you can live here forever, then it is of course great for your relationship with a Thai woman….
I came here in 2006 and have been in a steady relationship with my Thai wife for 10 years (are also married under Thai law)..
She didn't speak English so it was important that she learn English. which was ultimately great for our relationship when she could speak English….
You always have to get to know each other and bridge the cultural differences and that also takes time…
Therefore, for those who no longer have to work and have a relationship with a Thai woman, it is important to live here in Thailand, as the Thai often also has a permanent family relationship…
I have recently moved to the same village where my wife comes from and I must say, it is very nice with the family ... So it is highly recommended to also live in the village of your wife ... ..
I met my Thai wife some time ago in Hong Kong, she had already left her native village at the age of nineteen to escape poverty there and moved to Bangkok. I myself left the Netherlands in 2001 and emigrated to Germany, after which I traveled a lot and countries, my wife who ran her own hair salon in Bangkok, took over a hair salon in Hong Kong on the advice of a customer, and ran it there for years, I met her there, I must say she was very impressed, not only by my hair, but even more about her, we have now been married for five years, and to make a long story short, “the statement”, we have both decided, after living in Germany for two years, to choose Thailand together. I am very happy that we were able to make this choice, I do not want to exchange it for any other country, Thailand is a beautiful country to live and live in.
We have been living in 15 countries for almost 2 years now, and that suits both my Thai wife and me the best. In this way we maintain better contact with friends and family in both countries, and both continue to enjoy the good health insurance system, which is much cheaper for us as pensioners than a private insurance in Thailand. In Europe we have a small house with a balcony, where we can spontaneously turn the key without major maintenance obligations, so that we can be back in Thailand within a day's flight. This way we enjoy both countries, and also stay better informed with friends, family, and the worldly happenings in both parts of the world. Expats who constantly say that everything is better in Thailand, and that they are happy to have left the homeland, are judged with a shake of the head even by many Thais who know both worlds better, because it is simply not true. When we go to Thailand for 5 months, we both have a feeling of vacation, and we have the same feeling in reverse when we are back in Europe.
Moderator: please don't chat.
The term “eating both ways” is a bias and therefore a prejudice.
Combining roughly a third or half in the Netherlands and the rest in Thailand is going very well and may have major advantages. After all, Thais are very attached to the family. If you choose not to live near your Thai family, your Thai wife will be quite short! After all, she can only be with the family for a limited time. By, let's just talk about eating it both ways, you only make it more attractive to your Thai wife. That's called a win/win situation! But of course it's not for everyone. So if you read comments, keep this in mind! Not everything people say or write is true free opinion. Often it is also influenced by your own position.!
I have opted for permanent residence in Thailand with my Thai partner. I don't feel like double costs at all (maintaining or renting a house in the Netherlands, paying income tax on my pension, maintaining a car with associated fixed costs, etc.) and I certainly don't feel like going regularly at my age (I'm almost 70) and having to fly again with all the fatigues.
I like it here, little to no government interference, beautiful climate and fantastic natural beauty, generally very nice and relaxed people, not rushed and not too expensive.
And most important in this context: I don't miss the Netherlands at all. No homesickness.
So I strongly disagree with the statement. But as noted here before, this may be completely different for each individual.
When I asked my wife she said she was having a great time. Of course she missed her mother and several friends (classmates, colleagues, really nice people who also like to invite me now without my love) but she found life in the Netherlands much more pleasant. When the meter rose above 26-27 she started complaining that it was too hot for her, and she was having a great time with a varied circle of friends. As far as she was concerned, a holiday or a wintering in Thailand for our old age was more than enough. Now, as a wage slave, I don't know what it is like in practice to live in the Netherlands for 8-9 months and the rest of the time in the Netherlands, but it does seem to have the necessary advantages. Retention of (basic) health insurance, to name a few. The Netherlands also had the advantage that supporting mother was somewhat easier: 25-28 thousand baht is not a bad salary, but with work in the Netherlands it was just a little easier for my love to transfer 100 euros per month and have enough for himself. purchases and build up savings. Financially, the choice also fell on the Netherlands. Perhaps my partner would have been happier with only short visits to her family and friends in Thailand, but overall I think a winter break together would have been fine.
Without experience, if 30 is still a long way off, I can't say for sure which is better. So I myself think that wintering should be fine, but who knows, my wife would have had it with a long stay in her native country and she would have preferred to live with me in our old age in the Netherlands. Now so alone will it remain the Netherlands or elsewhere in Europe in my old age. Or I have to meet someone outside Europe. We'll see how things go. I tend to disagree but without practical experience I can't take a hard stand.
Well, I would like to. I mean: all the way to Thailand. The point is: coincidentally, I am now about to return to the Netherlands. Thank goodness because the money has run out. Family members had problems again. I myself spent 5 BAHT neung sean baht in 100000 weeks. I don't know what my wife, who also has an income in the Netherlands, spent. All for the happy family. If you are planning to marry a Thai person, first ask how the rest of the family farms. If father has a piece of land in Isaan and a few sons without vocational training, then don't start, is Van Kampen's heartfelt advice. A wise man learns from his own mistakes. A wiser man learns from the mistakes of others. And then they also ask: when will Lung Van Kampen retire? My answer was in Thai: When you can finally keep your own pants up.
There will be a right answer for every relationship, and it probably isn't the same for everyone...
With us it works like this:
We live in Thailand and visit the Netherlands 2 to 4 times a year - a few weeks at a time - around important birthdays.
My girlfriend has a one-year Schengen visa and usually comes along, but not always.
The intention is to grow old here, although I can imagine that 'here' is in the region. Malaysia is very close and seems a lot more stable…
I consider it a privilege to be able to choose variety in my life.
I wouldn't want to think about living in Thailand 12 months a year 🙂
My Thai wife and I have chosen to sell our house in NL and only have accommodation in Thailand and live there permanently. Benefit no double costs for anything and everything, no hassle around a house in NL, keep a car, you name it, in short, everything in NL has been phased out. Haven't visited NL after 6 years, I don't feel the need, my wife would like to spend a few weeks of vacation there, especially to visit the Keukenhof and quite a few other attractions that we have fond memories of , eg Zaanse Schans, Neeltje Jans, etc. and the places where we lived.
The argument for not sticking to anything in NL is that we don't waste our time on maintaining living in 2 worlds.
Maybe we will rent a mobile home, cottage or tent in NL for a summer month on a recreation site for a short holiday period, no further obligations.
A health care policy in NL is no longer possible, we also do not want to continue to live in 2 worlds for a health care policy. In Thailand we also do not have a health insurance policy, low insured amounts and a hefty premium, but apart from that, we insure ourselves, that pot is already well covered.
By the way, do you already know this? An all-care insurance policy is about the worst thing you can do for your health? Doesn't make you look for affordable alternatives and makes it easy to shop in healthcare, everything is paid anyway. But hey, that's a very personal decision and beyond the scope of this entry.
Living in 2 worlds can be very good, depends on many individual factors, but for us,
no, no life in 2 worlds for us, you shouldn't want that, but so quiet.
Nico B
I completely disagree with the statement of the week. I rather have the impression that it is like "throwing a stick" into the partly quiet chicken coop, to see how the chickens sprint through the coop like greyhounds. Fluttering anxiously, almost running with contempt for death to peer expectantly in some corner until peace is restored in the coop.
Come on.
Not everyone can, for one reason or another, immediately settle in Thailand forever with a girlfriend or wife, despite the fact that the desire of his wife or girlfriend is very great.
I, for my part, would not rather wish that I could be with my wife and her children forever, so to speak “at home”. Rather yesterday, than today or tomorrow. But obligation, YES obligation because of a stupid law, FORCES me to stay here in Belgium until I reach my retirement age (65). Which doesn't prevent me from seeing my family at least once a year.
I'm counting down the months now.
Only then will my life REALLY begin for me. And then they can go straight into the boom here in Belgium.
So now I HAVE to live in two worlds, with or against “our” wishes. Fortunately, my wife understands the situation and motivates me every day with the words "Darling whe NEVER GIVE UP"
Dre
Dear Dre,
I don't think any law obliges you to stay in Belgium. You feel that way. You have your own decision space and you can use it if you want. Of course in a responsible way. For yourself, for your loved ones. Check the pros and cons of a permanent move to Thailand and also the possibilities and impossibilities. And then try to do what you want most. And don't forget: be creative.
For thirty years I lived in two worlds: as a steward all over the world and then again in the Netherlands. Although I enjoyed my job and because we always stayed in the same hotels for years, I felt at home everywhere but home.
I was a stranger there.
When I met my wife five years ago, a year before my early retirement, I left for Thailand without hesitation. We have been living in our little house between the pineapple fields for three years now and if we leave home for more than three days, we already feel homesick for our house.
That is why it is very easy for me to say: no two worlds for me and Thailand is now my home port.
A good friend of mine who has also traveled the world a lot and has now turned 70, is in such a dilemma. He comes to Thailand for a winter and in the Netherlands in the summer. But he met his girlfriend three years ago and I can see that he is starting to have doubts now too. They have built a house in recent months. However, only because of his owner-occupied home in the Netherlands and a number of other financial benefits, he returns to the Netherlands alone for a few months. He still has friends and family that he misses anyway and he likes it in the summer in the Netherlands, where he is often on the road on his motorcycle and goes to the sports club every day.
And yet last week he started talking about maybe renting out or selling his house, so that he can stay longer in Thailand….
Everyone has their priorities…
I write under a pseudonym. So I can write the truth. If I don't go into details, no one will guess my identity. Too bad more people don't do that. They unfortunately identify with their pseudonym and are mortified by criticism or ridicule. But: see the likes above as an appreciation for the truth.
Okay, so I spent a lot of money here. But it's clear I'm not the only one. So we're talking about movers here.
Apparently there have been many with big plans that never came of tetech. In the rancid hamlet here under the smoke of Chaiyaphum there are at least 4 or 5 large falang houses
I come here every year anyway, but they are never there. Oh yes last year the neighbor from 400 meters away was there
Beer all day. This year he was not there again. “Tang prathet” like all of them
According to the villagers, his younger Thai wife is in bed with another man
I have never met the German who lives 100 meters from here. Always in Germany.
But the house is not uninhabited of course. Built at its expense and not cheap. Applies to all those farang houses here. Very expensive but why is the master of the house never there?
Also in the Netherlands people who have built an expensive house in the Isaan but never got there. Well never? 2 to 3 months per year. When I asked, admittedly brutal, why they built that house, one became visibly insecure and the other grumpy.
Well, my in-laws may have cost me $15 over the past 15.000 years.
A pittance compared to the farangs who have houses here of around a ton and are never there. In-laws, of course.
What nonsense; you don't have to choose at all. And if you want to choose, it depends on your own personal circumstances and feelings. But in the post it seems like you would be morally obligated to choose anyway.
Sjaak's friend's comment got me thinking.
Is it an idea to keep a file (in whatever form) with houses of visitors to Thailandblog who want to rent out their house in the Netherlands?
If you put your house on an official website, there are of course a lot of overhead costs that will drive up the rent.
I think we can do that ourselves!
Isn't it nice to also be able to offer your house in Thailand to holidaymakers, I have an empty house for sale here and now live temporarily (4 years) in a rented house because of my wife's study.
you could just mediate exchange.
Think there's another important aspect to it.
There is always one family left behind, in NL or TH.
There may also be children from a previous marriage.
Don't think they're too happy if dad lives on the other side of the world, or son who does everything for his in-laws, but is tired in a nursing home.
So it is a choice that everyone makes personally. I live comfortably in 2 worlds and so does my wife. When we are in TH she would like to go back to NL and vice versa. This way we are both regularly with the family and we are both happy.
So absolutely disagree with the statement
Hello everyone, have to say that I completely agree with the first reaction, do almost the same, the difference is that I come to Thailand for 2 x 4 months, and my wife has no money to worry about as she has a very well paid job plus own house motor ectr: so don't have to contribute (I do when I'm there for food and drinks, of course.)
She also comes to my house in Spain once a year for 6 weeks, she loves that but doesn't want to live there, so we are both very satisfied with how things are going.
So disagree with your statement.
greeting. H
I myself have plans to settle partly in Vietnam, now 100% in Thailand.
Now I wonder if it is possible to do 2 x 3 months Thailand and 2 x 3 months Vietnam.
So that you still nominally live in Thailand due to full state pension (Thailand is not the treaty country Vietnam)
Keep your address in Thailand then and with a multi-entry visa in Thailand.
Pw and Wim,
I am curious about your solution, I have a very spacious house near the city of Groningen, in a rural area.
4,4,4 months or 4,8 months or something I think. Let me know if there is more interest in this.
fr greeting, Mart