What farang men don't understand about Thai women
On Stickman's blog, an English weblog for expats and tourists about Bangkok, Tino Kuis found the following story by a Thai about Thai-farang relations. He translated it and gives as type: read it at a quiet moment when your partner is away for a while. Because this Thai doesn't beat around the bush.
“Mr. Stickman. I have read your columns now and then for several years, but I never felt the need to write something myself. I must say I found much of the raving in your columns quite amusing, albeit in a morbid way. The experiences of many farang men with Thai women are tragic and saddening and I feel sorry for them. But all in all, your columns paint an unflattering and rather dishonest picture of Thai women in general.
What farang men will never admit is that they only seem to draw from the same polluted source and therefore turn up a disproportionate number of unsavory characters. To put it bluntly, there is a huge difference between 'a typical Thai woman' and 'a woman who hangs out with a farang'. It may be painful to hear, but this is why so many farangs get the short end of the stick with Thai women.
Something about myself. I am a Thai, born in the US, raised in both the US and in Thailand. My Thai is fluent, but I prefer English as I consider it my native language. I now live permanently in Thailand. I have many farang colleagues and friends, most of my friends here and in the US are farangs and I will not shame farangs unreasonably. But believe me when I say that Thais tell me things they would never share with a farang, even if they married a farang.
Most farangs in Thailand don't understand it
And I say this: most farangs in Thailand don't get it. They don't see reality, how they are seen by the average Thai, why Thais often 'smile' and so on. All they know is what their wife, their partner or their circle of friends told them, which of course is generally biased and distorted.
Sometimes I read something from a farang, of which I say to myself: you get it. In the column about Isaan women (July 17, 2005) it says: 'The average Western man has something with Isaan women in contrast to women from other parts of Thailand. They say they value short, dark-skinned women with six years of schooling the most, but the truth may be that it is these women who force themselves upon the first farang.'
I'll take it a step further by quoting the words of an American prankster who said something like this: "Frankly, most men get the best woman they can get with the available resources." More on this later.
Thai think: all farangs are rich and Thai believe: all farangs are whore runners
Why does it seem like farangs so often get the worst out of Thailand when it comes to women? Farangs have a certain reputation in Thailand, sometimes good, sometimes not so good. I will only mention two factors that really matter. 1. Thais think all farangs are rich. 2. Thais believe that farangs are whore runners and mainly hang out with low-born women.
It is necessary for farangs to understand the class consciousness of Thais in order to truly appreciate the importance of point 2. And before you start beating up Thais for falsely believing in number 2, let me be clear that all Thais are well aware of what goes on in Pattaya, Phuket and the more run-down areas of Bangkok. They know and see that farangs want to pretend that their whores are their friends.
Thais believe: Thai women who hang out with farangs are (ex)bargirls
Hell, everyone knows that anyway! It never ceases to amaze me that farangs get upset when Thais think their wives and girlfriends are whores, but don't blink when they see farangs with whores themselves. Thais believe that Thai women who hang out with farangs are (ex)bargirls, because that is usually the case.
Back to the topic. Thai women believe that farangs are rich. What kind of women does this attract? Well, at least women who are after money. I think most women think this is important, but few think it is the most important thing. Those who have this at the top of their wish list are definitely going for rich men.
But then there is the second point, the image of the farang as a prostitute. Most Thai women are conservative by nature and don't want to be seen as 'that kind of woman'. That eliminates the 'watchful women'. And the better educated and wealthy women don't need this stigma either. I mean, why would you want to be mistaken for a money-hungry woman of lower birth when you have your own income? What remains are the poor, desperate people who no longer care about their reputation because they have other, more pressing problems.
They say: Thai men are all drunks and swashbucklers, blah, blah, blah
What I want to say is this. Farangs are very wrong about the average Thai woman, but they are probably right about the women they associate with. Most farangs will not want to believe this. They believe what their wives told them, that it is the wish of every Thai woman to have a farang as a partner because Thai men are all drunks and swashbucklers, blah, blah, blah.
But seriously, what else are those women supposed to say? That they prefer a Thai, but only deal with a farang for the money? That answer will not really appeal to the farang. The truth is that a majority of these women have had bad experiences with Thai men. Nevertheless, they prefer a Thai man, but he is out of reach. And the clock is ticking for them and their families.
Farangs only associate with ugly Thai women
There is a well-kept secret in Thailand. Every Thai knows this secret, but not a single farang knows about it (or doesn't understand it). It blows my mind because usually you can't get three Thais to agree on anything, but everyone agrees on this, both men and women: farangs only associate with ugly Thai women. Now this is the big difference between the vision of a Thai and a farang.
It's the Isaan factor again. Let me explain so that an average farang can understand. Thais feel the same way about dark-skinned women as Americans feel about overweight white women. Most American men don't see themselves waking up next to such a woman, although not everyone does. Those who go for fat women have them to choose. And so it is with Isaan women. Somewhat well-to-do Thai men have no interest in these women and those women know it.
Isaan women are the only women available for farangs
If you don't believe me, look at all those ads that would whiten the skin. Look at the women in the soap operas, not exactly the type you see dealing with farangs. I honestly don't believe farangs fall for Isaan women, although most seem to be content with something slim and young no matter what else they look like. But these are simply the only women available to them.
It strikes me that it hardly matters to a farang if they look good because they fish in the same pond as that fat, hairy, smelly 55 year old German sitting at the other end of the bar. You don't have access to a certain kind of women. I do, and I say it almost apologetically. In the US you expect an attractive man to hang out with a beautiful woman. But here you see a handsome farang in the company of the same kind of Isaan woman that all other farangs also walk around with.
At my company there is a farang with a classic 'gentleman' appearance. This man would be a real charmer in the US. Nice man too. Yet his girlfriend is a really typical Isaan woman. Another, above average handsome and well-earned (his wife has two children), well, let's not get old cows out of the ditch. There's nothing wrong with it if they're happy. It just strikes me.
Thais don't like to hurt someone's feelings
Which brings me back to 'the secret'. It is not the intention of Thais to fool the farang here or to deprive them of the truth. Thais don't like to hurt anyone's feelings, whether they're farangs or not. But there's no way you could explain this 'secret' to a farang and frankly, why should we? If you find the woman attractive (and she's also a good person), what does it matter what others think? (Ever seen the American movie Shallow Hal?).
It often happens that my farang colleagues and friends show me a picture of their new girlfriend while they talk about their new love. They expect me to praise their beauty at length. Trust me, they were almost always ugly, but I usually nod in agreement. What the hell am I supposed to say?
Take refuge if a Thai woman is chasing you
My advice to farang men looking for love is this: if a Thai woman is chasing you, run for shelter. As I said, Thai women are conservative by nature. In the following way, "a nice Thai woman" will approach a man she is interested in. That happened to me countless times. Her friend or acquaintance approaches me and says that someone is interested in me and whether I am available. I ask a few questions, but that person will never reveal which woman it is until the light is green. In the end I say I already have a girlfriend (which is true) and I never find out who that woman was.
But when she addresses me directly, she does so very subtly, so that it seems that she is not interested at all. If you don't understand the hints or don't want to follow them, she won't haunt you for long. The point is that the woman is reluctant to court and the man must be the attacker. If the woman imposes herself, then I am no longer interested in her. Feminists will hate this attitude, but that's the way things are in Thailand.
You are not special; any farang is good enough
Another thing: if a Thai woman says she likes farang men and is looking for them, don't run away but RUN. What she is actually saying is that she wants a farang man and that any farang is good enough. You are not special, just the opportunity that presents itself. And why does she want a farang? Hint: it has nothing to do with your charm and personality (see point 1 above).
Why would you hang out with a woman who is interested in any farang? She will undoubtedly prefer a Thai. If you can win over that kind of reticent woman, then you really have something. But it really helps if you take the time to learn Thai. I'm a bit suspicious of an uneducated Thai woman who speaks English a little too well, but that's another story.”
Comment Tino Kuis
I felt quite uneasy after reading and translating this article. I had very mixed feelings about it. On the one hand, I am sure that many Thais think that way, on the other hand, I think this man has quite a few prejudices. I also think that he represents reality very one-sided. Here in the North I regularly see farangs with a beautiful non-Isaan Thai woman. I personally like to look at an Isaan woman, many are beautiful. He thinks otherwise. Still, he says some things that are worth mentioning. Judge yourself.
Stickman himself added this under the article: 'Bull's eye! A story that is required reading for farangs who associate with Thai women.'
– Reposted message –
About halfway through reading the article, I wondered why Tino wants/can/is allowed to post this. Stickman is amusingly fun to read, but barely transcends the belt and level of "boystalk". The site obviously has its target audience.
I have no mixed feelings at all when reading this: familiar platitudes, stigmas, frustrations and prejudices are generously cultivated here. It will no doubt flatter Stickman's target audience.
The way in which the author portrays “the Thai man” as the protector of “the posh Thai woman” and at the same time as the nec plus ultra unapproachable infallible Thai man I find remarkably appropriate in a particular kind of Thai superiority consciousness. A well-known phenomenon that farrang can often see / experience ... It is often wrongly propagated as nationalism.
Fortunately, Thai people are people too and most of them behave that way. Exceptions prove the rule 🙂 and if you don't believe that anymore, you better move 🙁
This man just writes a truth that you don't like to hear.
I don't have a relationship with a Thai woman myself and never have, but I just think that there is way too much and too much thought about it. This article is full of generalizations. Of course this article touches on the truth, but let's be honest… If the man is happy with the woman and the woman is happy with the man, do the reasons matter? I may have no experience with a relationship with a Thai, but I know plenty of people who are very happy in such a relationship (including ex-bargirls).
And I find the part about the appearance downright disgusting. As if the beauty of a woman is the same for everyone. I've also had relationships with women who I knew weren't supermodels, but I thought she was beautiful. The fact that Isaan women are seen as 'ugly' in Thailand is more of a social problem than that it really has anything to do with appearance.
In the Western world you will also find 'gold diggers' just as well. And I often find that to be the superlative in comparison. But here too I think that if this makes both parties happy, just do it. In the Western world there are also conniving women (unfortunately also experience). This is really not something that is unique to Thailand.
This overall article is just as applicable to the Western world where we live in almost every point as it is to Thailand. I'm getting a little tired of people perpetuating this kind of 'fact' as if it only happens in Thailand.
As for that, I'm really just about the opposite of a Thai; I don't give a shit what others think about me. I do what makes me happy and if people have a problem with that, it can rust my big ass.
This overall article is just as applicable to the Western world where we live in almost every point as it is to Thailand. I'm getting a little tired of people perpetuating this kind of 'fact' as if it only happens in Thailand.
Totally agree with you Sacri.
The writer must be a stereotype.
I myself also married a Thai after many worthless relationships in the Netherlands. what I built up with the Thai in the Netherlands and in Thailand was missing from the rest. If they have been a bargirl or whatever, I have a lot of respect for her. I wouldn't generalize if people are open-minded.
Do not rule out in part that the truth is written but considerably exaggerated.
It is pretended that the perfect women live elsewhere in the world when one is well aware of the facts we all speak differently
Petervz , Dirk, and sacri and Nico thanks for the participation in this matter clear language.
Fine piece. Take a look in the mirror after you read it.
I think the story of this American Thai is very good and very striking in many ways. I estimate that
about 80% of the farangs have taken a woman from a bar or from a massage parlour. I got it
seen many times over the years and been to many bars. Most are indeed from the Isarn, but not
all. I myself absolutely do not want a woman from Isarn, they indeed have a very low education and what
should I go with that. I met my Thai wife in the Oriental hotel in Bangkok, where she was on a
party and dinner. Well-educated and a university degree, comparable to Nijenrode. An off-
talked to her and many times with her sister, but not alone. It has quite a bit
feet in the earth before I was introduced to her mother. Finally we got married
before the law and I have been very happy with her for over 10 years. Married twice before to a Dutch
national and had various relationships, also with Dutch ones. I trust my wife 100% and I can
I cannot say of my previous relationships. By this I mean to say that it can also be done differently. Have too
I've had bargirls in the past, but I don't want to think about going into a relationship with them.
Well Mr Vermi,
What a lucky bastard you are!
No, I didn't get to know my little Chaantje at a party at the Oriental.
She also did not do “Nijenrode”, so she will never be able to marvel at those Thai people who try to work their way up at a buffet there, elbow-working.
I met her 12 years ago at the bus station in Ubon Ratchathani, where I set up my bike to make a tour through Isaan, Laos and Cambodia. She helped me find a hotel and I asked her to dinner.
Oh no, ask mother first. Really and truly.
pulled together for 2 days; she went to mother's in the evening and I stayed in my hotel.
After 2 months of only contacting her via text messages, I asked her if she wanted to go on holiday with me for a week?
Yes, please, but ask your mother first! Really and truly.
That's how it went with us.
I have traveled all over the world, so I really know the edge and the hat, but we live wonderfully in Ubon Ratchathani, yes "the" Isaan!
Peer
The writer is very negative about Isan women, who according to him are all uneducated, have dark skin and are therefore also ugly. Incidentally, this is a vision that people in particular share in Bangkok. Bangkok is Sriwilai (civilized) and Isan is Ban Nohk (un-civilized).
By no means all people from Isaan have a dark skin. This mainly occurs in the southern provinces, such as Buriram and Sisaket, but the further north the whiter the appearance. Laotian women, on the other hand, are seen as being very beautiful.
Incidentally, much wealthier older Thai men maintain (extra-marital) relationships with much younger Thai women (also from the Isan), often for similar reasons.
He does have a point that most farangs of Thailand and the Thais don't understand. This is only possible if you have a fluent command of the Thai language, and therefore understand everything that is being said around you.
This Thai man, perhaps subconsciously, accurately describes the extent to which Thais are discriminatory among themselves. The difference in class is thus clearly described and the mutual rejection of the Thai for his less fortunate compatriots is once again clearly put down.
What can you do about it, if you give DNA a more brown skin color, what can you do about it if you were born in Isaan with twenty million others. What can you do if you have to make ends meet in a class society like the Thai one. Then it becomes life or survival.
Fortunately, I know quite a few Farang men who are happy with their Thai wife from Isaan.
I have also known Isaan women, who don't understand it and destroy their reputation, also applies to the Farang. Occurs everywhere.
Advocating for better education, equal opportunities and equal rights, that should be the mindset of the Thai man, but unfortunately…
I didn't find many surprises in the story.
It is also true that the people of central Thailand have a certain image of Isaan, and that is not positive. Why?
People from neighboring countries are also often treated with inferiority. Prejudice is everywhere.
Everyone is allowed to have his or her opinion..!!
What strikes me personally every time I'm in Thailand is that I don't find farang men in particular TOTALLY suitable for the Thai woman in question.
The average farang man does not look very attractive to say the least…!!!
Judge for yourself when you walk the streets anywhere in Thailand.
It is often a complete mystery to me why a Thai woman can fall in love with such a man ..!!! Can you guess..!! But I doubt if there is a sincere relationship.
As a woman of 62 , I understand that . You take care of me , I take care of you , what 's wrong with that , or do disabled and older men all have to wait behind the geraniums in the Netherlands or Belgium all week to see if someone has the time or inclination to drop by ? ? there are already enough . waiting .
What a great response.
I hope you put a lot of people (men) under the belt with this.
I am in a similar situation/relationship.
She takes care of me and I take care of her.
Both happy.
And we both know it's not love, it's a win win situation.
Nothing wrong with that right?
The question is whether these are all truths that are claimed here, but that the Thai (Isan) woman who is looking for a farang does not go for the beauty of the farang is an open door. There is plenty of evidence of that here in Isaan. That the woman is not always the ideal Thai beauty is of course also true, but in the "West" we often think differently whether a whiter skin is more beautiful than a tanned skin. It is doubtful whether all Thai men drink too much, gamble and have a girlfriend, but I see several stereotypes around me… But still a good story to read, especially when you can measure it with your own examples! For example, I know enough farangs who do not have a “Pattaya past” – I am one myself !!!
I hear enough stories of MINE WAS NOT A BARDMAID ….. NO MINE WAS MASEUZE , or with college education…. but the same evening she came to me ..... hahahahah don't make me laugh , not a retired , disabled and ordinary working falang has a Thai virgin ……. but what's wrong with a barmaid a masseuse or a girl from the 7 11…. or one with college education of ordinary descent ( What did she pay for her education with ) if you are happy with it …. don't brag about a fantasy.....because most of the girls have only recently started working. hahahah the exception left there.
The image is indeed very strong, but the reality is really changing. More and more Thai women (especially those over 35 and older women with children) are living with a foreign partner. And that is simply because this category of women is not at all popular with Thai men (too expensive, too independent, already 'used', children of another man), Thai men are not popular with this group and foreign men accept the 'past' of such a woman because they have a past of their own.
When I meet a good looking Thai lady aged 35-45 (which happens very often) who has never been married or in a relationship I always wonder what is really wrong with her.
What Thai men don't understand about Farang
If we want a white fart as a partner, we don't have to look long here. We are looking for a tawny partner (reason why the farang women sunbathe) and farang men even go to Southeast Asia for this.
The Thai women who wash themselves with 'Dash' and spend a lot of money to whiten are not immediately our target group. And certainly not if they still have a lot of notes on their vocals. The latter is personal and feminists will not like to read it, give me the woman who knows her place 🙂
Thai condescension is the most disgusting thing about Thai culture, unfortunately we have to learn to deal with it.
For me there are no ugly people only objectionable statements.
Greetings
KS
So, at least Van Kampen now knows that he has also been trained. It is true that his wife does not drink or smoke and does not like bars, but she is from Isan. The argument boils down to the fact that we farangs make do with the spoiled leftovers. The writer omits to mention in his edifying argument that a beautiful Isan woman can still function as mia noi of the upper class that thinks itself to be superior, to which he probably also counts himself. Polygamy is still more or less common in Thailand. Opposite the ideal image of the Thai woman, to which he does not include women from the Isaan (hence all the political resistance in the northeast?), the polygamy of the decent Thai man. They often remind me of Africans. Chasing the women showing off and throwing money.
Short commentary on translated article (short because more is not worth it). It is the story of a short-sighted, pedantic, racist, condescending and haughty man who mistakenly believes that he has a monopoly on wisdom.
I can't deny that there is a fair amount of truth in much of his story. But at the end of the day it is the story that makes that farang tourist happy. Well often that is just such a simple farmers Isaan girl. Nothing wrong with that, but that's what Thai don't understand about us Westerners. For most Westerners, it's not just about prestige and necessarily being seen next to the most beautiful woman. Certainly for many 50+ gentlemen, if they only have a sweet, caring wife, it is worth more to them than a stunner from the Bangkok region. And that many Thai women only want a farang for the money, that story has been known since the first farangs ever arrived in Thailand…
I find the fact that it is a reposted message from the Stickman very special in the sense of “You ask and we play”, so I assume there was a reason for this….
After arriving in 2008, the Stickman website was for me one of the few websites with "emotional information" about Thailand, a site with more than 7000 stories at the time, most of which had a trail of disappointment, often the last one was also the reason for leaving for Thailand. I have to admit that sometimes there were also “Pullitzer prize” candidates. At a later stage there was a turnaround and attention was also paid to tourism. The moment I also saw “Stickman victims” fall in my immediate vicinity, I thought it was enough and stopped. Every now and then I look again and came to the conclusion that it has all become “less heavy” now. Please note that this is an English website, Stickman itself comes from New Zealand. The danger that I believe lurks in a website like Stickman's used to be the overwhelming amount of negative stories it contains. In the past people unwittingly created a paranoid atmosphere, but I could be wrong.
A while ago I referred on Thailandblog to a “Stickman story” by a certain Simon, a schoolteacher, who couldn't find what he was looking for in Thailand that he could share the rest of his life with, and then , left for South Korea after 6 years (Japan was No. 2 I think). I think Jayson's story was enough for today, so I'll omit the location of Simon's story).
In his particular case, in general terms, it was “intellectual curiosity,” or the absence of it to the extent he desired. Many people will condemn this behavior with terms such as feeling of superiority (deja vu???) etc., but as Tino's article indicates, the reasons for choosing a woman are quite diverse, the rich Thai does not want a black lady and the American does not want a fat lady, so target shooting for certain groups. Simon wants to be able to talk about anything and everything with his other half, doesn't find that in Thailand, and leaves.
However, I must indicate that Simon may not have searched long enough, since during my one and a half year “English…” period in Udon Thani, I got to know 2 Thai ladies who fully met what Simon had in mind. One (Khon Kaen University) left for the Netherlands after the mentioned period and the other to China. So Simon has given up hope too early in my opinion.
The condemnation of the bargirls has a different label at an earlier stage, sometimes with a long-lasting after-effect, which I think facilitates the transition to the bargirls characterization for the “others”.
Mr. Jayson should have turned off the tunnel vision mode. See the following article reference: http://ro.ecu.edu.au/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1399&context=theses and here's an extract from it – it's a 2011 thesis, but I still recognize some things today (as everyone knows, growing up in problematic environments can have long-lasting consequences):
Speaking in Thai, dreaming in Isan: Popular Thai television and emerging identities of Lao Isan youth living in northeast Thailand.
Identity construction does not, however, flow in one direction and discourse on identity in Isan is fed not only by the perceptions of others living outside the region, but by how Isan people respond to the perceptions of people in central Thailand, particularly to Khon Krungthep
(Bangkokians).
Following is a discussion between students when asked:
Catherine: What do you think is the attitude of people in Krungthep [Bangkok], Khon Krungthep, towards the Isan region and Isan people?
Student: They probably think we are lower than them.
S: Sometimes it's like they insult us.
S: They think we are lazy, no hospitality. When they know us, they know they are wrong. When they depict us on TV they see us in a funny, clumsyway. And they present us in dramas although they…
S: They don't know us at all.
S: Yes
S:They think we are stupid, silly.
This sense of how outsiders, especially those from the metropolis, tend to view them in a
derogatory or unflattering way prompted several young people to confess embarrassment
at being Isan when in Bangkok or other regions of Thailand, yet there was also general
ambivalence and confusion about identity labelling.
Having a wife or girlfriend from the context discussed by Jayson and the various classes above it had nothing to offer Simon in either case and that is where all classes come together democratically.
If the people in question love each other, they will manage and defy the environment. Just as parents in “the homelands” of the farangs always/often want their children to get ahead of themselves, the Farang/Thai mix can also cause unwanted social shifts in the long run among “engaged persons” here.
Dirk
This USA Thai assumes that he has all the wisdom and knowledge regarding the subject and bathes in a wealth of complacency. Farang men may understand Thai women pre-eminently and take advantage of that.
The comment: “Bull's eye! A story that is required reading for farangs associating with Thai women” was posted by Stickman. If he hadn't posted the comment, the USA Thai could have posted it, mandatory reading for farang …, a lot of pretensions this writer.
Would the writer like to replicate: what a Thai man doesn't understand about Farang men.
Nico B
My girlfriend is not from Isaan but originally from Bangkok, she is not beautiful but is highly educated (Phd) and has a very good position at a university. At least 70% of her female colleagues, also working at other universities, have a farang as a boyfriend or husband. With which I just want to say that the above suggested "only hopeless women from the Isaan want a farang " absolutely does not apply.
The story says more about the influence of history on Thailand than about the stupidity of the farang.
The Isan became part of the Thai Empire only late, and initially the area was largely left to its own devices. Only at the time of the reforms by Chulalongkorn did the area that was more focused on Laos and Cambodia become a worthy part of Thailand, but certainly not a full-fledged one. The threat that the French would invade may also have played a role.
So you can say that the population in the Isan was traditionally regarded as a kind of imported group of immigrants, and what we now see are the after-effects of this.
The fact that the main source of meager income is the ailing cultivation of rice also does not contribute to rapid development or valued integration, making the 'choice' to work in a bar and/or to start the hunt for a farang a rather obvious option.
I wouldn't be surprised if a 'real' Thai is hired for an office job in Bangkok faster than a stupid dark undersized Isaantje.
To say then that the farang, more or less necessarily, fish in 'a polluted well, with unsavory characters' is downright shameful.
A little further down here I read about Thai women being cheated, abused etc en masse. Usually not by farangs I think. Makes you think. I have read these kinds of contributions from Thai men before. This is probably because they are ashamed of the country's bad reputation for prostitution. This is a kind of defense. In addition to the large brothel Thailand, there is also a decent Thailand, but that is an exclusive world that is only reserved for the Thais. Not even for the Laos because they are passport Thais. In South East Asia everyone hates the Thais. (The Bangkok clique then). The Laotians don't like the Thai. Certainly not the Cambodians. The Burmese don't like the Thai, and Malaysia doesn't get along either.
Beauty is relative, what one person finds beautiful does not necessarily apply to another. The story does confirm the common opinion (for what it's worth) that (among other things) Dutch men, who often fail to build or maintain a relationship in their own country, and sometimes also being referred to as 'loosers' by family, colleagues and acquaintances, find 'happiness' in Thailand. But those who label another as a 'looser' may secretly be jealous of the 'lucky person' who has taken the step to work with a Thai. Admittedly, almost always there is certainly no question of an equal relationship at the start. The Thai partner enters into a relationship for intellectual reasons and is primarily looking for financial security, while the farang usually steps in from his heart, fed by his hormones. But where one is heading for a complete fiasco with often financial consequences, the other finds his happiness in years of being together in good harmony. That farangs do not understand everything about Thai women is of course true, which is partly caused by a completely different background and upbringing as well as the language barrier. As so often, I can agree with Tino Kruis's comment. So judge for yourself, take advantage of the knowledge of others but don't be fooled and keep your common sense.
My humble opinion about the choice of partner of the Isan woman or Thai woman in general: many women have a low threshold and almost go for an electoral man who promises them heaven on earth. They often resign themselves to their fate and do everything they can to make the marriage/relationship run as smoothly as possible.
They don't know that “to love” or “to be in love” concept as in Western countries.
I am very very happy and happy with my wife. But when I met her I was also only a hope for a better future. I even dare to say that she had more trouble with it than I did. She liked me, but she had been used to a Thai man all her life. And now with such a stranger, for her big foreigner.
Now, after five years, we already look back on the best time of our lives. We live modestly, but well together. We know each other with all our weaknesses and strengths. And whether she is from Isaan or Timbuktu…it doesn't matter. We are each other's most important persons..
Here is some information for enthusiasts (Bangkokpost-Learning-2015), which indicates that changes are also taking place in this area in Thailand and a piece from the “Professor”, who describes the “other Thai world”.
Young middle-class Thai women marrying foreigners: Why?
http://www.bangkokpost.com/learning/work/657196/young-middle-class-thai-women-marrying-foreigners-why
https://www.stickmanbangkok.com/readers-submissions/2011/08/the-mysterious-second-world-of-thailand/
Dirk
It's not so much about understanding, but you should be aware of the following things:
1. Thai marriage is still more a union between families and clans (based on mutual benefits) than a union between a man and a woman. Romantic ideals of love slowly emerge. Thai women are taught to keep an eye on the (long-term) interests of the family when dealing with a foreigner.
2. Sex is not reserved for a relationship. Extramarital sex is no exception. This is less accepted for women than for men. Women take that into account.
3. There is a division between the male and female world. Married or not, a woman often goes to women's groups and girlfriends (shopping, to the temple, school activities for the children, karaoke). Men enjoy themselves in groups mainly by watching TV, talking and drinking.
Of course this is slowly changing. But 50% of my college students see a serious problem if the boyfriend or girlfriend is not liked by the parents. Only 15% find it a problem if the love partner drinks too much and then drives a car anyway.
It's not for nothing that it says: "replaced piece". The current situation has changed enormously since the emergence of social media, and a certain emancipation/westernization is also taking place among young Thai women. It is now teeming with well-educated university students who offer themselves for escort services via facebook etc. And they really do not come from the Isaan, but simply see sex as an economic transaction to supplement their scholarship in a simple way. Incidentally, the majority (85%) of the “whore runners” are Thai, but that aside.
The fact that to the OP isan women are the same as fat women are to americans means nothing to me. I find Thai women generally much less attractive than their Isan, Malaysian, Burmese and Cambodian sisters. I don't like doll faces, and that has nothing to do with education.
1. I would have liked to know from this American Thai whether they are all Isan children who are placed with relatives after the superior Thai man abandons his umpteenth wife without looking back with the children he has fathered.
2. My girlfriend, since 2 years, who is proud to be real Bangkokian despite her problem with her dark skin, she repeatedly shocks me with the way she talks and looks down on the Isan fellow man here in Bangkok. I find her rather harsh and intolerant of fellow human beings in general, she drags along a series of unnecessary taboos, according to my Western thinking.
This man clearly belongs to the elite. By which I mean the "better" half of the Thai that the Isarn people need to do the dirty work and to maintain that these people oppress and underpay. As a result, the girls from Isarn are often forced by family to raise a farang with money.
I don't even remotely support the man's aversion to dark. Why would a farang go to Thailand for a "white" woman? You can find it everywhere in Europe.
And if there is one national Thai hobby, it is to offend and gossip another, Thai as well as farang!
I have to admit that the longer I live here the less I understand the Thai. But the writer of this story really doesn't understand it at all. Not from the farang and not from the Thai woman…
Is it Thai??
I doubted whether I should respond, that eternal thing about relationships / women. The well-known stereotypes: farang is old, woman from the Isaan, blah blah. If a couple both get out of the relationship what they expect or are satisfied with, who are we to judge? Just a quick comment then:
I think it is rather short-sighted of the author to dismiss the Isaan as stupid peasant viewers. They also have schools there and more and more parents can have their children get a bachelor's or master's degree. That diploma may be worth less than in the west, but the boys and girls can find a nice job with it by Thai standards. I myself prefer a smart lady, now a school paper does not say everything, but if you are at a comparable level in terms of intelligence, it makes the relationship easier. I like a woman who is curious and likes discussions. You don't want to hear 'you talk/think too much'. Or if, like me, you love culture, history, architecture, nature, etc., but your partner only sees a city trip as an opportunity to visit a shopping mall elsewhere. That would rub off on me. Then the level of thinking and concern is too far apart.
And when you come to the Isaan there is also everything from light to dark, and in the south people are often a bit darker with a more Malaysian / Indo appearance. To dismiss an entire group or region as ugly or stupid is just stupidity at its best. And everyone has their own taste, right? My love had a more Laotian appearance, certainly not dark and in the Netherlands many people mistaken for Chinese. She herself sometimes found it annoying when the employees at the checkout of a Chinese/Asia supermarket addressed her in Chinese (Mandarin?). I would joke when leaving 'darling don't forget the free newspaper' (from China).
Of course, as a tourist or long-stay pensioner, you will mainly encounter service staff: reception staff, catering staff, massage staff and so on. Usually professions for which you don't have to have studied for, so that the tourist has a flirt with normal staff is fine. But to immediately decorate an entire tree with bleating that 'only stupid, ugly Isaaners are looking for a farang and they and that farang can't get any better' is nonsense and very derogatory.
What I have to agree with this man is that the alarm bells should ring if someone says “Thai (or any nationality) no good' or 'i only want farang'. Most of the men and women are normal people who are great relationship material for like-minded people. The country of birth is of little or no relevance
Yes, I also have a weakness or preference for certain women (Southeast Asian, beautiful dark hair, slim, handy, laughing together, talking, enterprising, travelling, curious, …) but if I were to say 'I just want a Thai, Dutch women are no good' then hope my flirt bursts into laughter and runs off! 555
I just want to let you know that I replied to this article five years ago and that I still live with my Isan wife and am happy with her as well.
Typical American bias.
Rarely read such a stigmatizing and racist piece than this piece.
Pfff from the usa, just about the most conservative and narrow-minded country on this planet.
Downright disturbing to write about people from the isan like that
So petty.
Please stay in the USA
i have a thai wife from phayao area xhang rai
But even she doesn't talk condescendingly about her compatriots from the isan.
The writer clearly belongs to the superior elite of central Thailand. They keep the Isaan under their thumb for their own interest. Everyone knows about the caste system in Thailand, although it's not really called that here. Fortunately, the farangs in Thailand are not racist with regard to color! What could be better than a slim little dark girl with long black hair! He is one of the super racists in my eyes. Is a bargirl worse than the elite? Probably the other way around.
The man is also 2000 years behind. Jesus got along better with prostitutes, eg Mary Magdalene.
Dear JJ,
I don't read anywhere that he comes from the superior elite, but that he was born in the USA.
It is of course also possible that his mother comes from the Isaan and married an American there.
And he now has the condescending attitude of a know-it-all who doesn't want to be reminded of his origins.
How old do you have to be as a human being, as a half outsider, to have or gain insight and knowledge into your own Thai origins.
Very short and the story tells much more about him.
The umpteenth story about "the farang" and "the Thai woman". Of course it is easy to think in terms of stereotypes and prejudices. But try to see that every farang and every thai woman is different, in thinking, way of life, experiences, etc. Throwing everything together, well, and then constantly confirming yourself in that, is that what makes you happy, is that where you have something learn about yourself, living in this country?
I have been happily married to my Isaan/Thai wife for 25 years.
She lives up to all the clichés: she's short and has dark skin. And yes: we know each other from the bar.
Together we raised the 4 children she had from a previous marriage. To me it feels like they are my own children and to the children I am just their daddy.
What other people think about it is of no interest to me.
Whether my Thai environment will see me as a strange white fart, I can of course only partly take away from them.
Not that I want to pat myself on the back, but to prove that I certainly didn't fall on the back of my head as a white fart, I wanted to make sure that speaking and understanding the Thai language cuts off better than most at the moment in my environment with the English language.
Your world becomes significantly bigger, if you at least know what they are talking about, and can also say something back.
Relying only on what your dear wife and her family want to tell you in their daily contact, degrades to a good-natured farang who is already quite satisfied with this meager knowledge.
I met my wife at the vegetable market in Chiang Rai, but had this happened to be in a bar, with everything I know about her now, this wouldn't have been a big deal.
Hiding a woman's bar past, if you do it to protect her, is very difficult anyway if you want to do it consistently.
If she has worked in the nightlife for a long time, she will sooner or later, because she will occasionally use her own learned nightlife language, fall through the basket.
You can also never generalize someone who works in a bar with other colleagues, but it is very common in this group that they certainly want to hide a lot.
We live in Germany for the most part of the summer, and if we ever come into contact with a Thai/farang couple of whom he does not speak a word of Thai, my wife was sometimes asked angrily, why did she teach me Thai at all?
Then you know, because this is also not liked by certain ladies in the nightlife, how this lady ticks, and where she comes from.
A guest who speaks too much Thai is, in their eyes, a so-called "Roemaak" (roughly translated a much knower) whom they prefer to complement from the bar with a friendly laugh.
The best is an ignorant big spender, who feels he has landed in some kind of fantasyland, where he thinks that only his personality is admired by all women.
Most of the latter are told that the lady he is eyeing has just been working in the nightlife for two weeks.
So two weeks for him a ticket from the lottery, not yet spoiled as it is called (555 ) and perhaps also undamaged.
Only what you can all hear in such a bar, a little knowledge of the Thai language and pretending you don't understand anything would give you a wonderful evening.