Reader submission: Termination letter from ABN-AMRO
Dear blog readers,
There have already been several reports about the letter of termination from ABN-AMRO, and this was also discussed in the comments that were posted with the report about Unive.
I myself had also responded that I had not received a letter and that I had visited the bank in April and asked how that was. The bank clerk then told me this didn't apply to me because I had an active account, it was only for accounts that were barely used. Then it was already reported that this was from the employee and that head office could think differently. That's it now, received the letter.
The contents of the letter surprise me. A few months ago we informed you that unfortunately we have to ask you to terminate your products with us. The letter which I now received on July 19 and dated June 29. In the letter they give another 3 months to end everything, otherwise the account will be blocked and automatic payments will no longer be made.
So I have 9 weeks from ABN-AMRO to arrange everything, I only received the letter on July 19.
I responded immediately with an email to [email protected]. Mention them and we will contact you within 5 days. ABN-AMRO itself takes plenty of time to provide an answer and the customer is not given any time. In addition, I am curious whether I will receive an answer.
There were several people with reactions who wanted to defend ABN-AMRO, assume legally, would like to engage a lawyer with interested parties. Their arguments make no sense. Are there people who are already working in the legal sphere or planning to do so. If that is the case, we must get in touch and make it 1 case and thus also share the costs.
In the meantime I have already inquired at the Rabobank, immediately received an answer within 2 hours with the question which Rabobank I would like to go to, the questions answered. The next day already an answer from Groningen. I have to join a Rabobank with a passport and a decision would then be made. In my first question, which was also confirmed, I said that I live outside the EU and am not registered in the Netherlands, but I still have my own home that can serve as a correspondence address.
It is therefore striking that Rabo can respond quickly, but Abn-Amro cannot, while you are already a customer there.
If there is no one who also wants to put up a legal defense against Abn-Amro, I will do that myself if the message on my email from ABN-AMRO is negative.
Would like to hear.
Regards,
Roel
It has been mentioned before, the general terms and conditions of the agreement with the bank state that both parties can terminate the relationship.
Someone mentioned I believe Article 35.
You are, of course, free to hire a lawyer and initiate legal proceedings, but I fear that the only result of that will be that you will soon be able to close an empty bank account instead of one that still has something in it.
I also received such a letter this week. But I don't mind doing anything about staying with that bank. Don't you want to! With some searching there are plenty of alternatives.
Then share those alternatives with us, because we are still looking.
Dear Klaas,
Please provide information about the possible alternatives (in the Netherlands).
I have succeeded in opening an account online with SNS bank. My daughter's address in the Netherlands used to which the atm card and the digipass were sent and other mail if necessary. My need is only internet banking. Has been working flawlessly for 3 months now. I have opened an account for a credit card at CITI bank in bangkok. That also works properly. I am 75 years old, but that was no problem for SNS and CITI.
Another response today on the blog talks about the RABO bank.
Dear Klaus,
From your response it seems as if the SNS does agree with your construction that allows you to keep the account with their bank while you are deregistered in the Netherlands.
That is not true. Customers at SNS also receive this letter. That you have come up with something to keep your account with the SNS is another matter. That would also work at other banks. There are always constructions that make it possible, but are they legal? If the SNS finds out, you will also be kicked out.
Success.
The only weapon you seem to have as a customer is that the ABNAMRO cannot just close the account.
Stop all services.
The question then is that if they are not allowed to close the account, they are allowed to stop all services, as they indicate.
I draw the conclusion that they should not close the account from the fact that they want you to do everything yourself.
I suspect they can't just send your money to a known contra account.
But that's just a guess.
It would have been a credit to ABNAMRO if they had set up a transfer department that helps customers switch to a bank that still offers services outside the EU.
Possibly even a bank in Luxembourg or something like that, if the Netherlands really were no longer possible.
If living abroad, just provide a correspondence address in the Netherlands and then no problem at all with a possible discontinuation of the banlproductwn
Incorrect.
From a legal point of view, a correspondence address means nothing. Whether you are a resident or not applies to the bank.
Although the earnings and costs of a private account holder are based on an account holder established in the Netherlands, the bank also wants legal certainty. That is difficult and too risky in a country outside the EU.
Give me one reason for the bank to hold a current account of a private customer on the other side of the world.
The Netherlands has still not transposed a European directive on payment accounts into law.
This must be done within 2 months, otherwise the european commission may drag the netherlands before the european court of justice
According to the guidelines, all EU citizens are entitled to a payment account for a reasonable fee
wherever they live.
The costs for the bill must also become clearer. Comparing and switching must also be made easier by the directive.
The directive should have been converted into law last September.
Cyprus, Croatia, Luxembourg, Portugal and Spain received a similar warning from Brussels
If you live in Thailand, you probably don't meet the 'EU citizen' requirement.
'Wherever they live' presumably means 'wherever in the EU'.
Am I a Thai citizen without a Thai passport or an EU citizen with a Dutch passport?
I must correct myself. You are also an EU citizen if you live in Thailand.
The rule is simple:
“If you hold the nationality of an EU Member State, you are also a citizen of the European Union.”
So maybe there is still hope.
Although various media that have reported the warning do indeed state that under the directive all EU citizens would be entitled to a payment account, I do not take that from the directive itself. It states: “Consumers legally residing in the Union who do not hold a payment account in a particular Member State should be able to open and use a basic payment account in that Member State.”
.
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/NL/TXT/?uri=celex:32014L0092
.
(see in particular sub 35 and 36)
.
Hope is already gone.
yes, the criterion is: someone resides in the EU, EU citizen or not, it does not matter.
“According to the guidelines, all EU citizens are entitled to a current account (…) wherever they live.” Yes, EU citizens, who therefore live in the EU. Not in Thailand.
And to think that before the rescue of the bank by the Dutch government there was a beautiful office in Bangkok. Now account holders are treated like rubbish by ABN-AMRO and they are given little time to arrange their banking affairs. The fact that ABN-AMRO acts in accordance with the general terms and conditions does not imply that they should simply leave their customers to their own devices. And the reasons have certainly not been clearly communicated. The only thing that is clear is the complete lack of willingness to think about a solution with their probably loyal customers for many years.
Dear Leo, ABN AMRO had an office before the crisis, but that was exclusively for internationally operating business clients.
I have the same problem with ABN AMRO, I have been living in Thailand for 5 years and you are simply thrown out of their bank, NOT by the employees, who are service-oriented, but by the people at the TOP, people who have forgotten that the bank exists thanks to individual savers and therefore CUSTOMERS.
Now my AOW as well as my PENSION (i.e. received from two agencies) that each have their own way of checking my data will be paid to a Thai Bank, although with a few days delay, but yes, you can live with that. My problem is that I no longer have relationships or family contacts in the Netherlands, but I still have to transfer money to my EX from a divorce. So first to Thaialnd and then back to the Netherlands pfffff. That would have to be done from Thailand again (extra days and extra costs)
Yes, service but no more for me!
Consider an account with e.g. Ebury.com, eigerfxdirect.com or http://www.nbwm.nl ( in Amsterdam)
Even cheaper to transfer to TH, and .. you can hold money in NL in Euros
Hans,
2 that you have specified are in England, are leaving the EU, so no choice. The latter in the Netherlands is not a payment account, so only for the transport of funds.
Nbwm is for SMEs and only makes transfers of € 100.000 per year
I had the same. I have to pay my ex € 300 per month. I have a pension from ING. In the past I always did it myself, transferring that € 300 to her. Finally, after consultation with ING, I was able to make the arrangement that they transfer € 300 to my ex, including the indexation, and deposit the rest into my Thai bank account. Maybe this is a tip for you! You can e-mail me if necessary, you can ask the editors for my e-mail.
this is also another way, you get your own iban number, which is still in Lithuania at the moment,
soon a UK number, works fine, and when recording atm you get the highest rate (only on weekdays)
http://news.revolut.com/post/149983518882/join-our-revolut-community
Took in I have now received the letter from ABNAMRO. Date find junior. 6 months time to cancel the account. Otherwise the beak will die. Read; block the account until you have provided a valid bank account number.
But…. I still have a pension product running until mid-July next year. Cancellation is therefore not possible because then I have to open THAT savings product Bremen. My account manager also says that the account will continue to exist until July next year.
In the past I thought about taking steps, but after some conversations with ABN I came to the conclusion that they are as flexible as a lead door. Besides, he should ask himself whether he wants to be a customer of this bank.
They offer to help find another bank. Now let's just rent a plane so that we can all go to the Netherlands because to open an account you must at least personally go to the bank to identify yourself.
That Lao cuts right in when I look at your writing. Anyway you say they are flexible, I also noticed that somewhat. Also that you could keep your account until July 2018, they can't do anything else in your case, if that has to be bought off because of them they are responsible for the costs thereof.
No, after careful consideration, I absolutely do not want to be a customer anymore and my 2 children in the Netherlands also cancel their account with ABN _AMRO, that will not worry abnamro, but there are young families that they can earn something from now or in the future future.
Actually a follow-up question, what happens if you change your address at the bank from Thailand to an address of a family member in the Netherlands?
To date, this would not have caused a problem, but now that this problem is known, they will of course screen such cases.
Don't see the problem, just throw ABN out if you don't agree with them and switch to another bank.
That is the solution, but a trip to the Netherlands for a personal application at a bank is a bit expensive.
Open an account in Thailand and make international payments, for example, to a Dutch account. Problem ? No, this is resolved. Good tip.
I do not understand international payments to a Dutch account.
The problem is that the ABNAMRO wants to close my Dutch account, so then I no longer have a Dutch account.
And putting my savings in Thailand doesn't seem like a good idea either.
Tooske, you can't just expect this from the responders. Most seem incompetent when you read their responses because they are unable to manage their financial affairs from their new country of residence. As previously mentioned by others, it is the personal choice of those who have moved to Thailand, the result of which is that you sometimes experience some difficulties from your new country of residence. But you can also arrange banking activities from Thailand, for example payments or direct transfers, with your Thai account. So my advice is: don't complain but use your time to arrange it in Thailand. Piece of cake/ baht.
ger,
Isn't it a bit shortsighted to think we're incompetent?
I moved to Thailand 10 years ago and then there were no such problems.
Those affected by the closure of the ABN service are looking for a solution, that is the question, not whether it is their own fault.
I also have payments in Ned, so in that case, according to you, it first goes from Ned to Thai bank and then I transfer it again from Thailand to Ned, there are a lot of extra costs in a year, so it is strange that we are looking for a solution.
As others and I have also mentioned, it was your own choice to move. Once you live in Thailand, you will save a series of fixed costs that you are required to pay monthly in the Netherlands. Or costs that are a multiple if you live in Thailand. For example, housing, garbage collection, electricity, water, municipal taxes, water board charges, road tax and more. On the other hand, you will incur slightly more costs to make payments to the Netherlands now that you live in Thailand.
Dear Ger,
That's right there, but I still pay everything in the Netherlands, municipal taxes, energy, water board charges, insurance, almost everything is automatic.
So what am I saving. This is not taken into account at all.
french amsterdam,
Good comment; “If you have the nationality of an EU Member State, you are also a citizen of the European Union.” So Abnamro is violating the rights of an EU citizen.
I called the bank, spoke to Mr. Hillebrand. Another address just in the Netherlands is not possible, I still have my own house so no problem. When AND/OR account was discussed, to transfer my account together with my son is not possible, both must be registered in the GBA in the Netherlands.
Explained the problem and also the late letter and also that I had not received a letter before, no commitment yet, but got the impression that the period of 3 months after the date of the letter was not the biggest problem, as long as you left and worked on it.
Called a lawyer, the period of 3 months is not possible and they are not allowed to stop all automatic payments if there is money in the account. The Dutch state has the say at ABN-AMRO, major shareholder and they determine the rules. Have sent letter and correspondence to lawyer and will inform me further.
In September I will go to the Netherlands and if I can open an account with Rabo then I will, I don't even want to be with that bank anymore despite all the work I have to do.
Correction, ABN AMRO is NOT a state bank and the state is NOT in charge of the bank. The fact that the Dutch state still has an interest in the share capital does not detract from this. Moreover, the shareholders do NOT “set the rules”. Cost of lawyer wasted money. Could you have spent better on a good cause...
Yes, people, no matter how you get used to it, it remains a mentality issue and we gradually know that it is far from the banks. Just greedy for money. Talk about tunnel vision. But yes you see it coming back everywhere, the own comfort and own interest is leading.
My son is going to open a new account that I will use if I cannot obtain a bank account in the Netherlands myself. If not right, then left.
I don't want to leave anything to chance in this case or to the good will of ABN-AMRO, which has also been helped with my money.
The EU is practicing protectionism with its regulations and laws and is suffocating EU citizens who have gone to live outside the EU. I think England made the right choice for a Brexit.
I also received the letter from ABNAMRO , last Monday it was in my mailbox at the post office here in Pasang .
After being a loyal customer for more than 40 years, you are being kicked out in a dog way by a simple letter.
I am very angry about this, you will understand.
I am not going to litigate against this letter from ABN.
It will only cost you more stress and a lot of money on lawyers.
I call it fighting against the finish line , I am 64 years old and still want to enjoy life here in Thailand as long as I can .
My advice is to get out of here with your savings from the Netherlands.
Because after the ABNAMRO the rest will follow , you can assume that .
This week I was the first to send an email to another bank where I also have savings.
The Region Bank.
In my opinion this is a fine bank in terms of service, accessibility, etc., this bank often works with agencies of insurance advisers.
They told me that till date I can keep my accounts there .
But people who want to open a new payment account must live within a radius of 40 kilometers from an agency.
It is therefore no longer possible to open an account there if you live abroad.
So I still have an emergency exit door to transfer my money to this bank because I have had accounts here for a long time.
Yesterday I called another bank where I also save from my home here in Thailand.
The ASN bank is known for its windmills and environment, so to speak, the green bank.
I was told you can no longer open an account with them if you live outside the EU.
My savings accounts can remain until now , but I have to change my contra account from the ABN to the Regiobank .
If I had not had another payment account, I would have had to cancel this bank, thanks to ABN.
But what other options do you have.
Park all your savings on Thai banks , a solution maybe you also live here permanently .
But here too you have risks, bring in money to Thailand, no problem.
But if you would like to send the money back to the Netherlands later, I think this could cause quite a few problems.
With this I think of if you are no longer allowed or could stay in Thailand due to circumstances.
We owe all this shit to our fantastic European Union .
Opening an account with the Rabo bank, for me at least, means first buying a plane ticket to the Netherlands and the associated accommodation costs and travel insurance.
To receive another letter from the Rabobank after perhaps a year later.
Dear Mr. Beute to our regret we have to end our bank relationship due to European directives, it is not meant personally etc etc etc.
And then they always talk about globalization.
Maybe the English (Brexit), the Swiss and Danes and Norwegians are smarter than the Dutch.
It has gradually become an impersonal mess at the banks in the Netherlands.
Customer prefers not to see them appear at the branch anymore , and what about the interest that you can still receive today .
As good as nothing.
Here in Lamphun they know me , have a chat when it is not busy about anything and everything .
The day before yesterday I already transferred my first 25000 euros as an angry reaction from the ABN to the Krungsribank on my Euro FCD account.
The rest will follow in the coming weeks, don't think to wait for the 6 months (also imposed by the bank).
For the British Brexit for Janneman it is now Janxit.
Jan Beute.
For your information, I had contact with the Rabo service desk an hour ago. It is not possible to open a payment account with Rabo Nederland as a resident of Thailand (unregistered Ned).
All very annoying! I do wonder where exactly the bank sets the limit.
So registration in the GBA is a requirement for an account. Or are there perhaps other criteria?
I am in the “preferred banking” category but hardly use the account. So far no cancellation has been received from the bank. I'm curious!
Dear Richard, I too am in the preferred banking category.
Only makes it worse , from their side also had no notification that this was coming .
Don't worry about the letter, it will definitely come to you.
Unless he was dumped somewhere in a waste bin by the Thai postman .
Jan Beute.
Wanting to live in Thailand is also arranging your own affairs there, right? You have all day for that. Moving to Thailand, no more bank account in the Netherlands, it couldn't be simpler.
Strangely enough, a bank account in Thailand went smoothly when I still lived in the Netherlands.
And to the best of my knowledge, it is still possible for people who do not live in Thailand to open an account with a Thai bank.
Lion,
Matters related to Thailand are taken care of here. But matters that have to be arranged in the Netherlands must also be possible via a Dutch bank account. You can buy a house in the Netherlands but you can't have a bank account, how crazy is that.
I still support my children every month with a donation of 400 euros pp. They are not necessary, but that way they can still support the economy and have a slightly better life.
I absolutely do not want to transfer all my money, and that is a considerable amount of money, to Thailand and I will certainly not do so. I have an investor account with Binck bank and the Giro, then all the money goes there, no interest payment, but it is safe and secure than in Thailand.
We'll see, go to the Netherlands in September, that was already planned so no extra costs and will try to open an account for myself with a bank there, Rabo think.
But banks are not waiting for money either, they borrow it for free from the ECB, so customers with money are currently superfluous.
I presented this problem to an acquaintance of mine who has a decent position at Rabo. She roughly said the following. When a resident of the Netherlands has an account, there is nothing to worry about, but a foreign account holder causes a lot of problems with regard to control and security. It must be investigated whether money could be passed on to, for example, extremist groups. The last time an account was opened at her office, the application saw at least 10 agencies and took several weeks before permission was obtained. So much too expensive for the bank. She thought she remembered that it was an application from Laos. This is what it came down to in short. So most banks will soon follow suit.
Dear Peter, if you live and work in the Netherlands, you cannot transfer money from your checking account to extremist groups.
Wouldn't you also be able or allowed to use your credit and debit card on holiday abroad?
Because who says that the money you take out in Turkey during a holiday is only spent on payelja and red wine .
You might use this money to purchase kalasnikovs.
Can never be checked , yet another bullshit story from the banks .
Jan Beute.
in case of EU citizen:
Someone who has the nationality of an EU citizen is automatically an EU citizen or Union citizen
See Maastricht treaty and agreements in Amsterdam
Much worse has happened to me: I was insured for 55 years (I am now 80) with Achmea, but I received a letter last year that the entire expat package had been sold to an English group...but they will take over all pre-conditions ;...I still have no preconditions!
Get a letter from my new insurer and boom my annual premium goes up from Euros 9000 to Euros 12500.... with a PS: "if you do like us to take over your insurance needs you can resign by the end of the year"
To me hula……have tried to insure elsewhere but the cheapest (and only) offer was an unknown US insurance asking a premium of US$ 68000 / year with a maximum of US$ 500.000..
So I'm nicely shanghaied!
This is nothing new at all. There has been a law or directive for many years that if you deregister from the Netherlands you can no longer have a bank account there. Years ago when I received my first state pension (I temporarily stayed in the Netherlands) and deregistered from the Netherlands, as I left for Thailand again for good, I had to give my new address to the SVB R,dam and they demanded that I also closed my NL bank account. Their reasoning was that with a NL account I had not left NL for 100%, because in their eyes I was going to emigrate. I just kept the, then still, Postbank account and told them to deposit my AOW into it, which was done. Officially, when you deregister from the Netherlands and go live in another country, you must also cancel your bank account. Your departure is regarded as emigration. Have an acquaintance who left for Ecuador and also had to cancel his NL account, was in 2005.
Law or directive, theoS, do you have it available for inspection, or a web link?
I am in Thailand since 2002, ING customer. During the crisis I was kindly offered to open an extra account to secure for a year at x percent and in 2017 I opened a new savings and current account.
The ING has informed me that there are no plans for an action like the A/A does. So I'm curious which law or directive you mean.
I hear from others that taking a correspondence address in NL via a normal change of address works excellently, also for the A/A. That does not matter for your emigration; where you live is not judged by a bank account alone.
Dear TheoS, read here how the SVB handles the payment of someone's AOW who lives abroad, has been deregistered and holds a foreign bank account. You can choose whether you want to receive your state pension in euros or in the currency of your country of residence.
https://www.svb.nl/int/nl/aow/uitbetalen_aow/buiten_nederland/
That's right. these are instructions from ultimately the government! Over time, all Dutch banks will follow the same procedure, so it makes no sense to change banks. It is exactly as Peterdongsing describes the problem.
Additional information;
https://www.plusonline.nl/veilig-online/bank-gaat-rekeningnummer-en-naam-controleren
8 months ago I passed on my change of address (Thailand) to the Rabobank. No problem at all, only the branches were not allowed to send bank cards to Thailand. The employee expected that a solution would be found in the near future. I was also advised to open a Thai bank account and to transfer my income to it once a month because that saves a lot of costs.
ING simply sends my card and my credit card. However, there is a blockage that I have to remove via a method.
Smiley Salmon, the gentleman who worked at the bankrupt DSB, is also responsible for this. This is the identical gentleman who is now putting together a new government for you. Gives confidence, doesn't it?
On the other hand, if the ABNAMRO doesn't want you anymore, what's the point of getting out of there and never coming back. They do make it a lot easier for you, by the way, they are now closing their offices throughout the Netherlands. You don't even have to go there anymore.
Dear readers,
It is clear from all the responses that ABN-AMRO does not have uniform rules for bank account termination, or at least that all customers are not treated equally. So after receiving the letter I have 9 weeks to arrange everything. After my phone call, I received an email that they want to extend for another month, so until the end of October. So a little more time. But one customer even more than 1 year and others 1 months. Also heard nothing from my account manager and also not in the bank's private mailbox.
It would have been a credit to ABN-AMRO if they had offered a transfer service, so an alternative bank account and transfer everything. They are now simply bringing their own customers into trouble and in a very short period of time.
I think the new legislation that has yet to be adopted is also about switching service, then you can take your own bank account to any bank, that is an EU obligation.
Why did ABN-AMRO not wait there.
At SNS you can open an online account, but you have to lie about your address and that is precisely what I do not want and can cause problems in the future. I can also do that myself at ABN-AMRO and just leave the postal address on Thailand.
My son will open an account in his name that I will use and I will try to open an account at Rabo myself in September with the addition that I live in Thailand, I will let you know if I succeed.
I also told my 2 children that they should also leave ABN-AMRO and they will do so. And hoping that many will do the same, ABN-AMRO no longer deserves any respect, they should have gone bankrupt because your and my tax money is also included in the rescue of the bank.
Thank you all for the responses.
Roel