Dear Thailand connoisseurs,
I have a house in Thailand where I want to insulate the ceiling. The ceiling is made of a wood-like construction, at least none
concrete, etc. I suspect that this wood-like material was chosen for the ceiling in order to create the existing suspended ceilings.
Above the ceiling is a steel construction with concrete roof tiles on top. At the ends of the "attic", which is not used, there are grilles without forced ventilation to ventilate the space under the roof construction.
It is especially hot in the house later in the day and I don't want to use air conditioning all the time. I don't think it makes much sense to insulate the roof construction because the space underneath is not used.
So I want to insulate the ceiling to keep the living space below cooler. Now I have found insulation material in Thailand with an R-value of about 1974 m²×K/W (square-meter-Kelvin per Watt) with a price of 250 bath per 2.4 m2. Now I have found a lot of information about insulation in general, but I cannot find anywhere whether that value of 1974 m²×K/W (square-meter-Kelvin per Watt) is sufficient, or even worse, even much too low for application in Thailand.
I know that there has been discussion on Thailand blog about building and even insulation, but this technical information was not discussed.
Are there Thailand bloggers who can give me a definite answer whether the R-value as mentioned above is sufficient to keep the worst heat out of the house?
Yours faithfully,
Wim de Visser
hello wim,
Unfortunately I can't help you, but I am very interested in the subject since I also want to build myself. It also seems interesting to me to know whether you only want to insulate the ceiling or also the walls, etc. I often see fairly thin walls to keep construction cheap, but that will then affect the heat insulation.
Dear Wim,
I can't answer the R value, but I can give you another tip that I have applied myself and works particularly well, I also hate air conditioning and therefore never use it at home.
The heat comes into the house through. roof, windows and walls through the sun. The sun can no longer shine directly into my house.
My ceilings are about 3 meters high, heat rises. In my recently built bedroom I let the ceiling run along with the roof, so at an angle. On top of the roof I placed a ventilation dome that automatically turns on airflow and sucks the heat out of the room. I have reinforced this by means of. I have built in fans at floor height in the outer wall that are normally used for extraction in the toilet, only I used them the other way around so that I suck in air.
That fresh air goes through the bedroom and up to the ceiling where it is extracted by the automatic fan that runs on air flow. I have placed dimmers between the fans in the wall so that I can regulate the air supply myself and there is no noise from the fan. This all works perfectly and always have a fairly cool bedroom, never air conditioning and use 1000 bath pm of electricity for a family of 3 people.
Of course you can also do an automatic fan in the roof of the house, and then place small fans in the ceiling itself that suck hot air from your living room. All low cost to purchase and guaranteed to work.
Perhaps if you ask for it, the moderator can give you my email address so that you can look at my own very well-working idea.
Regards and good luck in advance,
Roel
Dear Roel, on June 25th I will leave for Thailand (minimum 1 year – 60 plus) I plan to buy something in or around Kantharalak – Sisaket Province. Can you give me some tips? Thank you
Dear Roger,
I would rent something first and see how you like it, especially there you can rent something nice for little money.
Buying is fast, but selling takes a long time, especially there. In addition, if you want to do well and protect your property, you should set up a construction, company, lease, or through a mortgage system.
I myself live a little outside of pattaya, nice and quiet and close to everything. in addition, of course, many compatriots with whom you can also have a chat in your own language, which is certainly not unimportant.
So think carefully before buying, I have lived there for 8 years very satisfied.
Good luck and welcome to Thailand.
Roel
Dear Wim,
If you already talk about woody construction and woody material; I wonder if you should start with insulation.
It seems to me that this fake message is a little connoisseur who talks about R value will definitely recognize wood as wood !
For insulating against heat, I simply recommend heat-resistant foil with a roof fan, an affordable solution that certainly helps.
spraying the roof with foam; expensive and has disadvantages such as durability and your roof tiles are stuck, so that in case of leakage it becomes a whole demolition and search.
Be sure to go to a specialist for insulation!
Good luck and keep your head cool 🙂
Hi , I have the same problem . But I also hear about the insulation on the ceiling that animals are going to settle in there again. And make walls on the sun side possibly double, but otherwise I have no problems wall a thin wall also cools down quickly thick walls, on the other hand, I have some trees on the side where the sun goes down that block the sun from the house keep that's fine.
But I would also like to know more about the insulation on the ceiling, which is interesting.
William,
You could ask my neighbor for that R-value, he is an expert in that field …….
but I think the most important thing is that you extract the heat between the ceiling and the roof
If you mount a so-called madman on the roof {better 2 pieces}, the heat is dissipated to the outside….a madman is very light aluminum. construction and turns on the wind…
For sale at a plumber
If you have the mailadr. from my neighbor ???……..mail me…[email protected]
success
Johan
Fred
Use Ytong but 15 cm. thickness
Costs something….but then you also have something
With a building I only see 7 cm. are processed
But yes, otherwise they don't make enough profit
Google…Ytong
Johan
Hi, when I still lived in Thailand, my neighbor had his house and company insulated with spray foam directly under the pans, it saves him a lot on the electricity bill.
He used the fire-resistant variant.
Most houses have a plaster ceiling with an empty space above and a steel construction with foil and tiles as a roof. Everything you do about insulation is an improvement.
and whether it is enough depends on your own resistance, do you feel comfortable at 27 degrees with a fan or can't you make it above 25 degrees?
Good day other Wim,
My job is property developer and constructor in ChiangRai. The subject of insulation in particular comes up most often when we talk to our customers about their 'custom home' and have to come up with a design. Although we are in the north of Thailand, which is a cooler area than elsewhere (although you wouldn't say during the current month), it is often the case that it is better not to isolate. Apart from the desired or undesired heat effect, it also brings with it a lot of animals, mold and dust.
The reason is that insulation slows down the transport of heat enormously, which also works the other way around. So when it gets cool outside in the evening, the insulation will ensure that the heat in the house and the materials, which has steadily increased throughout the day, does not disappear quickly in the evening. In the evening in particular, most people are at home and that period is most important.
As one commenter already noted, a double wall on the sunny side is fine to effectively keep out the sun's rays. However, it is very important that there is good ventilation in that wall from bottom to top (i.e. in the spou). And instead of insulation on the ceiling or under the roof, a reflective foil directly under the roof tiles, on the battens, is also better. Such a foil can reflect up to 80% of the solar radiation, but the air rising throughout the house can then still be discharged via the roof.
Really, don't try to hold back heat. You can't do that, you can only slow down. However, one can ensure that the heat is quickly dissipated as soon as it gets cooler outside after the sun has set. The double wall and the reflective foil under the roof tiles must then stop direct heat radiation during the day and a lot of attention to good ventilation is also important to keep it bearable during the day. Incidentally, very good ventilation is also essential to keep the house dry enough in the tropical climate if the humidity once again causes a clammy blanket feeling.
If, on the other hand, you cool the house, with air conditioning or a water chiller, insulation does make sense. Just think of the reasonably economical operation of a refrigerator or freezer.
Just written in 41 degrees warm ChiangRai, which is measured in the shade. Here, too, people have already started to speak of wind chill, which today stood at 47… Phew
Good luck with the rebuild
Wim
Dear Wim van der Vloet,
Appreciated thanks for your response.
I think you have a good argument that insulation also works the other way around and thus counteracts the removal of the heat built up during the day.
You also certainly have a point that insulating a lot of animals, dust and mold can result. For both arguments I can say that I had not thought of it. So you do.
The "problem" is that it is an existing house and therefore costs huge costs to build a double wall everywhere. May not be really relevant in my case because the house is in a fairly shady area and has a 1 meter overhanging roof that blocks a lot of direct sunlight.
Incidentally, the walls are of the quality “bunker”, but only about 12 cm thick. A serious hammer drill is needed to hang anything.
Do you agree with Johan's idea of installing several so-called madmen, possibly with forced ventilation when there is no wind, to dissipate the accumulated heat under the roof?
I do have an additional question to your statement:
As I wrote, it is an existing house and you write that a reflective foil directly under the tiles and on the battens could be an option. That would mean that I first have to remove all roof tiles to install this foil. I think a gigantic job because the surface of the roof is about 200 m2. Is there a variant of your idea of reflective foil?
Is Bart's idea still something to use polystyrene, which is easier to place under the tiles afterwards?
And finally the big question:
Where can I buy this reflective foil, what is it called exactly and what are the specifications?
And what does the film cost per m2 indicatively?
If you already see something in those polystyrene plates as a possible alternative: are they for sale in Thailand and how thick should they be?
Hope I'm not asking you too much
Perhaps this is a completely bogus idea, but I still want to put it in this discussion for review. I think the heat in the house is mainly due to the radiation heat from the sun on the roof that is passed on in the house. As far as I can judge, reflection of this heat would be part of the solution. Another solution that I have sometimes thought of, but never applied, could be to rinse water, such as collected rainwater, over the roof to dissipate the heat. Could this be a solution? Again this is an idea and nothing more. I'll be happy to present it.
R-value
The R-value stands for the thermal resistance of a material and is used to indicate the thermal quality of insulation materials in m²K/W. This value determines how much heat is retained by a material. The higher the R-value, the better (the thicker the insulation)
The R-value is the ratio of the thickness of the insulation material (expressed in metres) to the lambda value. The higher the result of this break, the better the material insulates.
Example:
Mineral wool with lambda value = 0,04 and a thickness = 16 cm, has an R = 0,16/0,04 = 4,00 m²K/W.
If we use a PUR panel with a lambda value of 0,032 for the same application: for the same R-value of 3,00 m²K/W, a thickness of 12,8 cm (0,10 / 0,032 = 3,00 m²K/W) is sufficient. ).
We therefore see that it is perfectly possible to insulate just as well with a different type of material in a lower thickness: a PUR plate of 12,8 cm is thermally just as good as mineral wool of 16 cm. So when comparing prices of products, we should pay attention to the R-values of the materials.
How do we know the R and λ values: we usually find these on the technical data sheet of an insulation material.
Friends of mine live in France and live in an old presbytery with walls 60 centimeters thick. The house never gets warmer than 25 degrees C inside. They live in an area where it often gets warmer than 40 degrees C.
Does anyone know if you can also apply this here? Or will it cause moisture problems? Sincerely, Tim
Hay Menno, your idea of obtaining heat dissipation by spraying water on the roof is not new at all. This is already being used in the south of Thailand. I'll tell you my experience. When I was regularly on my way to Tesco-Lotus, I noticed that water was always running along the road in the same place, despite the fact that it hadn't rained at all. Wanted to know more about it and went to investigate. On closer inspection, it turned out to be a typical "street restaurant" where you could eat well for a small price, they simply sprayed the roof constantly with a sprinkler system, which resulted in an open cool space where people could eat. Perhaps they had drilled a well and the roof was kept cool by the cold groundwater. Please do the following test. Take a plastic bottle filled with water, about 3/4 full. Roll it in a wet kitchen towel and place it in the flat sun. Do not forget to wet the towel in time. After some time you will notice that the water in the bottle will be well cooled. The evaporation of the water from the kitchen towel removes the heat from the liquid in the bottle. in other words, because the water on the roof evaporates, the heat is extracted from under the roof of the outdoor restaurant. And for the jokers; NO they don't wrap you in a kitchen towel there. LOL
If you use insulation then use polystyrene (styrofoam) of 4 cm thick works everywhere. Know this from experience, because I own a contracting company in Holland. I don't know what it costs in Thailand, although I do go there regularly on holiday. Is only a bad sound insulator, but assume that is not important. Hope you find this information useful.
I read a lot about reflective foil here, I disagree, I will explain why.
Reflection foil is or can be good in the beginning, but due to wind and a lot of dust, the reflection has disappeared in no time. In addition, it is difficult to attach, steel trusses and pan supports, so no wooden battens present, retain the very old wooden houses.
If you look at the older houses, there is space in the roof overhang between the battens where the wind can enter and thus generate the upper floor of ventilation and natural heat dissipation. So ensure sufficient ventilation and possibly help with the removal of the hot air, as described earlier. As was also noted with a good air cavity wall, there is no better insulation, at least not in Thailand if you do not want to use the air conditioning much or not at all. It is of course different with full air conditioning use.
With dark glass, sunlight has less chance to penetrate into the house, even better is that as much shade as possible is created around the house by trees, etc.
William, check out the website http://www.siamfiberglass.com , there you will find everything about it
insulating roofs, walls, etc.