Dear readers,
My Thai live-in girlfriend wants nothing to do with the Dutch government. The SVB (Social Insurance Bank) administers the state pension. The monthly benefit is, simply put, € 1144,72 for single people and € 788,81 for cohabitants.
Every year you will receive a questionnaire asking for proof of life and whether you want to state whether you live together and, if so, with whom. I live with my Thai girlfriend but she is rather suspicious and really doesn't want to sign anything or anything like that!!
How do I solve this? Surely it makes no difference to the SVB with whom I live together if I simply declare that I live together? Or should I simply avoid the problem by informing the SVB that I regularly live with someone, but that this changes regularly?
As a background, perhaps it is important that I am still married. My wife lives in the Netherlands. Isn't it the case that if you are still married, regardless of whether you live with your ex or not, you will not by definition receive the low benefit, so that it is completely unimportant whether or not you live together in Thailand?
With greeting,
John
John, what benefit do you receive now, for single or cohabiting? If you receive for single, there is nothing to worry about. In Thailand it can also be checked whether you live together. Thailand is a treaty country, so be careful, otherwise you can get a hefty beet and have to pay back money.
Seems like the wrong answer to me - if the questioner now receives the benefit for a single person, that is wrong. After all, he himself indicates above that he lives together.
John, I think the SVB is based on the actual situation, otherwise you would not have received a single state pension even if you are married. So, in my opinion, you live together and are therefore unfortunately not entitled to a single state pension, even if your partner wants nothing to do with the Netherlands.
In my opinion, if you are married, you will receive the married person's benefit, regardless of whether you live with your wife or not. But emailing the SVB gives 100 percent certainty.
This is incorrect. The determining factor is whether there is actual cohabitation.
Dear John, if you just follow the SVB form, no signature from your Thai girlfriend is required. In your question you indicate that you live together and are also married. Based on these facts, it is then as follows:
In box B you fill in the actual situation, i.e. your girlfriend's details. ( is the person with whom you have a joint household ).
At point 1 you enter married, to whom and the date of your marriage.
At point 2 you fill in YES.
The explanation of question 4 states that if your girlfriend, the person named in box B, does not receive a benefit from the SVB, then your girlfriend does not have to sign.
So you have no problem.
I would quickly forget the suggestion you make to fill in something other than the facts.
Given that you are still married and living with a girlfriend, you could report this situation to the SVB, in the first instance that is certainly unnecessary, the SVB can ask you separately if it deems it necessary, in your Life Certificate form is no room for explanation.
Nico B
I now just receive the low (cohabiting) benefit because I still really lived together until about a year ago. Is of course excellent if it stays that way BUT I'm a bit stuffy for the civil service.
After all, I can't meet the rule that I can specify WHO I live with.
Some civil servants, but also the social services in Thailand (I think it's called SSO) will not accept my declaration because it has not been completed according to the rules!!
I can't say “just give me the low benefit because I live together but can't say with whom” A little civil servant then says: it's not good.
Dear John, you don't need to be afraid of bureaucracy if you don't withhold anything of importance.
See my comment above, just fill it in as it is, gone fear.
I assume you know your girlfriend's name anyway, otherwise copy it from her ID-Card, you know her address too, same as your address. Of course you will receive the low benefit if you live together.
So filling in can no longer be a problem.
Success.
Nico B
Yes, forgot that, you write, "After all, I cannot comply with the rule that I can specify WHO I live with."
You don't write why you can't meet that and that eludes me, where is the shoe pinching now?
Success.
Nico B
To start with your last question:
The SVB site states that if you live separately but are still married (and do not intend to live together again in the short term), you will each receive the benefit for a single person:
https://www.svb.nl/int/nl/aow/samenwonen_scheiden/uit_elkaar/
So that you are still married in NL does not matter.
If you have a permanent partner here in Thailand, with whom you live together, it seems to me personally sufficient that you report this, you will receive the lowest benefit as you yourself indicate, so why would the SVB still check this? A signature from your girlfriend seems superfluous to me, but call the SVB... (I don't know the form, are the name and signature of the partner requested?)
By the way (if her signature is required) you could just put her name on the form with a copy of her ID and construct a scribble yourself.
The fact that you want to give up changing partners does not seem without risk to me: who knows, a benevolent civil servant may say that you are still entitled to AOW for a single person (and you have to rectify that again). Or you will receive additional questions about how many months per year you may be alone…
Dear John,
Simply submit your questions to the SVB if you have nothing to hide. Provide good service and simply follow the law. Your Thai concubine doesn't have to sign anything to me if she doesn't want to, but any consequences are yours.
Don't want to eat it both ways, it's tax money
Theo, which two wallets do you mean? If in this case John lives alone in Thailand, he will receive a higher WAO benefit (gross 1138,= p/m excl. holiday pay) than if he lives with a Thai girlfriend, who most likely does not contribute financially and which means that the household costs are of course higher. while John's WAO benefit may be reduced. (to gross 784,= p/m) It goes without saying that John is not entitled to partner allowance, which has been abolished for everyone as of 1-4-2015 for new cases. Dutch people who live abroad cannot rely on supplementary income schemes. But I do not understand why they are in fact obliged to continue living alone, on pain of losing part of your AOW benefit. The law could/should have responded better to this. This adjustment has now been made for children who have taken their parent(s) in need of care into their home. Until recently, there was talk that these AOW benefit recipients would also receive cuts.
Sorry, where I wrote WAO benefit should of course say AOW benefit!
Dear John! I can only advise you not to take the advice of “John Mak” too literally. You live together, so you are not entitled to single state pension. If you only live together for part of the year, also state this so that the benefit may be adjusted pro rata.
Remember that it is about "sharing a household together" and then it doesn't matter if married or not, location of cohabitation, nor the nationality of the person you live with.
And in your specific case I would just say that you live with a Thai girlfriend. That should be enough. Gr. haki
No John, if you are still married but living separately, this is indeed important for the amount of your AOW benefit. By visiting the SVB website you could immediately have seen that married people who live separately and therefore run their own household are entitled to the AOW amount for singles (70% of the minimum wage). However, the fact that your Thai girlfriend lives with you, and I assume that she has not yet reached state pension age and has not built up an state pension in the Netherlands, is also important for the amount of your state pension. For the SVB, you live together if your girlfriend lives with you more than 50% of the time and shares the household costs or takes care of each other! If your girlfriend has no income and you can prove this, she does not contribute to the household costs, but she most likely meets the criterion of taking care of each other. This includes shopping, cooking, using each other's belongings, care in the event of illness, etc. If you therefore live together, you will receive the (lower) AOW benefit of 50% of the net minimum wage. With regard to your situation, I would also like to draw your attention to the “Two-home rule” that the SVB applies. This rule already applied to your spouse in the Netherlands, but it can also apply to living together with your Thai girlfriend. You must meet a number of requirements; you may not be married to each other (but that is not the case because you are still legally married to your wife residing in the Netherlands), you must both have your own rental or owner-occupied home and at that address also at the (Thai ) are registered with the municipality (perhaps your friend has her own home or is still registered with her parents) and you pay the full costs and charges for both your own homes. I hope this information is useful to you, otherwise please contact the SVB. Providing incorrect information to the SVB is of course punishable and may have consequences, but if your girlfriend spends less than half of the time with you / stays in your home, according to the rules of the SVB, there is no cohabitation and you do not have to do so. therefore not to be mentioned.
Hello Corretje et al There is no longer an SSO address on the form. Not even in the cover letter. There is a website mentioned, but if you copy it you will get an error.
I already wrote about this to info@thailandblog but nothing has been posted yet.
maybe this option???
http://www.svb.nl/int/nl/aow/samenwonen_scheiden/trouwen_en_samenwonen/index.jsp
• AOW and joint household (pdf, 656 kB)
Two-home rule – what if you both own a home?
You spend more than half of the time in a home with someone aged 18 or older. And you both have a home. In that case you are considered not cohabiting. This situation is called the two-house rule. A number of conditions apply to this:
• you are unmarried and
• you both own a rental or owner-occupied home; or a rental home for assisted living or group living; or a home based on a right of usufruct or a real right of residence and
• you are both registered with the municipality at your own address and
• you pay the full costs and charges for your owner-occupied home and
• you can freely dispose of your owner-occupied home.
Dear all,
thank you very much for your responses. Was very valuable and I got enough information to know what I'm going to do. That's the beauty of this blog: a lot of information quickly.
Some readers made the wrong assumption. I'm not trying to get the higher state pension. I don't have it and I won't get it. Justifiably. I just didn't want to end up in an official mess because communication from Thailand to the Netherlands could be a bit difficult.
Again THANKS to all.
Communication by email from Thailand to the Netherlands is just as fast as communication in the Netherlands.
Something I have to give credit to the SVB is that they respond very quickly and extremely professionally, and then it helps that you ask a stable and clear question and/or make a report, of course in accordance with the facts.
You can do this via Digid directly on the SVB site or otherwise to their email address.
If you do not yet have a Digid, you can apply for one via the SVB if you have a state pension.
Success.
Nico B
Just enter into a commercial relationship then nothing is wrong
black on white with signatures of both
also report to the immigration office etc.
It may be somewhat off topic, but still. I understand the rule that you lose your single status with regard to the state pension if you live with someone who has an own income.
But if your partner does not have that, then it becomes a somewhat strange situation: you do not receive a married state pension (on the contrary: your single status is greatly reduced), while your Thai partner never (!) obtains any entitlement to state pension. In other words, your partner must help the Dutch state financially to cover the gap of approximately E 250, while there is nothing (!!) in return from the Dutch state! Duties for your partner, but no rights. That's called "living on someone else's pocket!"
And that there is a gap is perfectly clear: living on a strongly reduced single AOW with 2 (!!) people is completely impossible.
The logic of this rule is completely unclear to me.