Reader question: Health insurer wants to cancel my insurance and demands an investigation from SVB
Dear readers,
My experience with Social Insurance Bank in Roermond. I have had my basic health insurance in the Netherlands for 10 years now. I always stay there for a little over four months. But now my health insurer demands a research statement from the Social Insurance Bank. Otherwise they will cancel my health insurance.
I have been in discussions with the Social Insurance Bank for six months now. Completed a questionnaire three times. The first two, swept off the table anyway. They don't answer or answer minimally, deny reception, stretch and pull, play dumb and send me into the woods. I've called at least five times, that's the only thing that works. They say: You do not live in the Netherlands. While I am still registered there in my municipality. At my old address. Now my son lives there and there is plenty of room.
My bank account is in the Netherlands (AOW and pension). Registered in the municipal register. Lifelong usufruct of building and land.
The third completed list is now on its way to the SVB.
Because of the Corona, I couldn't go to the Netherlands in 2020. They indicated that I should be in the Netherlands for at least half a year (per year).
The result is not there yet. What can I do if they reject it again?
Who else has similar experience?
Regards,
Gerard
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First a question, have you been sick here in 2020?
Have you declared this to your ZKV.
Who started it, your ZKV, or the SVB.
Please note that each department has its own rules, SVB, BRP, ZKV.
Have heard here several times that they will be flexible due to the covid19.
Whether that is the case I have my doubts.
Hans van Mourik
Many people reason that they will remain registered in the BRP of their municipality of departure if they only stay abroad for 8 months. That's right. If you have been in the Netherlands for 4 months, you remain registered. They then ensure that they have an address, for example with a family member or good friend. They often set up a bedroom there and leave a toothbrush in the bathroom.
After all this arranging, a thinking error is then made. It is believed that 4 months in the Netherlands entitles you to participate in (basic) health insurance. Pay the premium and you're done. A misconception. The General Old Age Pensions Act (AOW) states that people must live in the Netherlands for at least 6 months and that according to the usual standard: being registered in the BRP at their own home address and running an independent household. If you want to enjoy the benefits of being a permanent resident of the Netherlands for longer than those 6 months and on an “ordinary” basis while you are only there temporarily, you must discuss this with and obtain permission from the SVB. That is the core of Gerard's problem.
In short: 6 months from the Netherlands means that all rights are retained, longer than 6 months from the Netherlands means consultation with the SVB, longer than 8 months from the Netherlands also deregistration from the BRP and therefore no right to participate in a Dutch health insurance policy.
Daniël, you state above 'The General Old Age Pensions Act (AOW) states that one must live in the Netherlands for at least 6 months and that according to the usual standard: being registered in the BRP at one's own home address and running an independent household.'
And what does the state pension have to do with health insurance legislation?
I have just read through the AOW Act and do not come across that sentence. Do you have a link for your statement please?
Daniel you also make a strange thought leap. The AOW has nothing to do with this. AOW does require that you remain registered in the Netherlands for 4 months a year as long as you accrue at least AOW (2 percent per year). But this is separate from health insurance. Gerard just say you lived in a camper the rest of the time. Camper is of course borrowed from an acquaintance lol. So 4 months of registration and 2 months of camper life. Camper living is allowed in the Netherlands. Kingdom law !
I would just wait for the SVB to investigate.
You do everything legally, so who does what?
Maybe mail some Dutch debit card transactions to the ZKV?
I hope for your sake they are not so childish as to ignore corona.
But yes, it is the Netherlands…
Good luck, I'm in the same situation, but my dog is still asleep.
Oh I also had something similar on hand. In March 2020 I was in the Netherlands and due to the travel restrictions regarding the covid-19 pandemic, I did not travel. I reported this neatly to the SVB as I saw it coming that this would take a long time. eo ivbm the health insurance to which homeless people are also entitled. After 4 months I finally get a definitive answer and WLZ statement. I report to the health insurance company and pay premiums. After 1,5 months I get kicked out. my status was RNI. The fact that I have a room where I can receive mail and pay woz for the living space rate for this self-employed person is not taken into account. But registration here is not possible. So only residence and no BRP. Covid-19 is also irrelevant.
That is the present-day Netherlands !!! I hope I get a European vaccination passport. In my view, the Netherlands is a province of the EU
Regards Anthony
The fact remains, of course, that the questioner has not been in the Netherlands for the past 16 months – 2020 and, I assume, 4 months in 2021 – and could therefore in fact be deregistered ex officio. In that light, it is not surprising that the health insurer is having further investigations carried out.
In the context of your health insurance, Thailand is not a treaty country. You have the right to stay abroad for 3 months without giving reasons, without consequences for your health insurance. If you are staying in a non-treaty country for more than three months, you must take out insurance in the country where you live.
If you stay in a non-treaty country for longer than 3 months, your healthcare insurance will lapse from the first day that you have arrived in the non-treaty country. Watch out for that. Especially now that you state that you will be staying in Thailand for four months, your health insurance has already expired. If costs have been incurred in the first three months and have been paid to you by the health insurance, you must repay them. All those 6 month stories.
4 months, 128 days is wrong. 3 months is really the norm for a non-treaty country. I hope it will work out favorably for you. But it won't be easy.
Wiebren, your assertive statement is contradicted on this government site.
https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen/zorgverzekering/vraag-en-antwoord/hoe-ben-ik-voor-zorg-verzekerd-als-ik-op-vakantie-ben-in-het-buitenland
It mentions a year.
I think that the questioner is confronted with the SVB because he will be staying abroad for more than 1 year.
Quote from the central government: Are you going to travel abroad for less than 1 year? Then you keep your health insurance in the Netherlands. Are you traveling abroad for more than 1 year? Then the Social Insurance Bank (SVB) determines whether you can keep your Dutch health insurance.
If you are reading this, it seems that you are insured if you go to Thailand for longer than 8 months but less than 1 year. Good to know that the insurance period does not coincide with the registration/deregistration in the Basic Registration of Persons. So as an example: if you go to Thailand for 10 months, your health insurance will remain in force, but you must deregister with the municipality (= Basic Registration of Persons) if you expect to be away for longer than 8 months. There is also some stretch in this last sentence, because after all you can plan a stay of 8 months and then only decide at the end to extend this by 2 months; then you continue to comply with the rules as long as you say that you initially intended to stay away for less than 8 months. You do not have to deregister (up to 8 months abroad) before you leave. For example, you can demonstrate with an 8-month ticket where you change the return journey to a later time at the end.
Another thing, namely the health insurers, for example, issue statements that someone is insured abroad for a certain period. For example, as a statement that you are insured against a Covid-19 infection. Look if the insurers put in black and white that you are insured for, for example, 6 months or 10 months during your stay in Thailand, then on the other hand they cannot tell you that you are not insured according to what Wiebren Kuipers writes. We just assume that the central government is right because yes they draw up the rules and publish them; there is also no reservation on the website of the central government, so we can assume 100% that it is correct. The latter is then a confirmation of what Erik writes and refutes what Wiebren writes.
Thanks Eric,
I have something here..
I am registered in my municipality in the Netherlands and will remain so, Because I CANNOT register myself in my wife's country. (Foreign nationality ) I am staying here with my legal wife, with a SPOUS VISA In my passport.
In the Netherlands, I have the usufruct of a building and a hectare of land for life, on which I pay water board tax.
In the building, there are my expensive professional tools, vehicles and other items, which I do not want to part with yet and which I am working on, in the Netherlands.
I want to maintain my family ties and joint possessions as long as possible.
Greetings from Gerard.
Extra information……
The country, where I reside, with my legal wife, with a SPOUS VISA, is
Sri Lanka.
Thank you, Eric.
I have something to do with this.
I am registered in my municipality in the Netherlands and will remain so, because I CANNOT register myself in my wife's country (foreign nationality). I am staying here with my legal wife,
with a SPOUS VISA in my passport, and that's enough.
In the Netherlands, I have lifelong, the usufruct, of a building and a hectare of land, on which I pay water board tax.
In the building, there are my expensive professional tools, vehicles and other items, which I do not want to part with yet and which I am working on, in the Netherlands.
I want to maintain my family ties and joint possessions as long as possible.
Greetings, from Gerard.
Wiebren, maybe misread?
You write : Especially now that you state that you will be staying in Thailand for four months, your health insurance has already expired.
Gerard writes: I have had my basic health insurance in the Netherlands for 10 years. I always stay there for a little more than four months.
So exactly the opposite!
Personally, I think that the current legislation in the field of state pension, health insurance and registration in the population register should be more harmonized and should be clear to everyone. As a holidaymaker who is going to travel for a year, for example, you have to take out health insurance in the Netherlands, but if you are going to live somewhere longer than 6 months, you will have problems with various organizations.
Gerard, asks you ZKV and the SVB for a written statement, where it is stated, about those 6 months.
Then we know it too, exactly.
Do it with DigiD, then you often have an answer that they have received your message.
Hans van Mourik
The Social Insurance Bank. (All employees). Except one….
That man told me that the error was with Pensions, in the national Personal Register, it was WRONG. lives abroad………. You have to call them personally... (to get that changed, man, man, man)
Are vague as hell, They don't make me smarter than I am.
Saying, only, they must have more and new information about me… otherwise…. Yes what ??
Then I do not know either?
Then I asked them 9 examples of questions/answers… that I could/should fill in in my entry form.
NO explanation, they don't talk about that anymore. I'll have to find that out myself.
Young, young, is that the officials who are there to help us?
Best regards, from Gerard.
For one of those reasons, the cabinet has not fallen.
The government and their officials are far removed from reality and the citizens, if only to think of the benefits affair, which is well known to many.
Jan Beute
What matters here is whether someone is still (or “already” at immigration) a resident of the Netherlands. This concept is not interpreted the same for all laws. Whether or not being registered with the municipality is in any case not the most relevant.
The Supreme Court has determined that someone is a resident of the Netherlands if that person has a lasting relationship with the Netherlands of a personal nature. This means that there must be a strong bond between that person and the Netherlands. The question of whether there is such a strong connection depends on all the facts and circumstances of the case. It is necessary to look at the combination of all those facts and circumstances.
The burden of proof will lie with the most diligent party. That is you when you take out the health insurance, but it is the health insurer if it wishes to terminate the insurance.
You can only register for health insurance (or must do so under penalty of a fine!!!) if you are insured under the Long-Term Care Act. The SVB will investigate this at your own request or ex officio in response to a report from your health insurer, for example.
Both you and your health insurer are bound by the SVB's decision. However, objections and (appeals) are possible, with only the SVB as opposing party. If you are insolvent or insolvent, you are entitled to an additional lawyer and your costs for those procedures are lower (but never nil).
People can have different interests, Gerard wants to remain insured, others often don't. Disputes often arise when a health insurer starts levying a premium (for which the date of registration in the BRP of a municipality is then taken for the sake of convenience).
Op http://www.rechtspraak.nl there are several statements. Here is a statement that shows some similarities with Gerard's situation and in which things are explained relatively clearly http://deeplink.rechtspraak.nl/uitspraak?id=ECLI:NL:RBDHA:2018:13752
You may find a statement about the case of a pensioner who, according to the SVB, would live in Thailand worth reading: http://deeplink.rechtspraak.nl/uitspraak?id=ECLI:NL:RBDHA:2018:12684
This case ended well for the person concerned, the SVB was ruled against by the court.
Thanks for the link Prawo. Good to know what the judge's verdict was and what it was based on.
Quote: 'Because of the Corona, I couldn't go to the Netherlands in 2020. They indicated that I should be in the Netherlands for at least six months (per year).'
I am not going to get involved with the Dutch rules regarding health insurance, which we as Belgians do not care about.
But what you write here, see quote, is not correct. You CAN travel to the Netherlands in 2020 and there were several options. You're just using this as an argument for not doing it. It is very logical that they do not accept this because the health insurer also knows that this is not correct.
From Thailand, yes, lung addie. But also from Sri Lanka? Perhaps Gerard can explain that?
Dear Erik and Addie.
I have been married to a Sri Lankan for 25 years.
About 12 years ago, ……after retirement, we went to live in her village, in SL
Every year more than four months to my place in Ned. Central Health Fund, was OK then
Mid Feb. 2019, I happened to be up and down for another 10 days for a monument unveiling.
Corona was threatening, but I was just back BEFORE Colombo airport lock down.
The rest of the year, no more normal flights, maybe, for very special cases, an exception... The Corona was here then, not at all as bad as the West.
So, stay where you are, and watch out.
I would go to Ned again soon. want, to see my children, brothers / sister / friends.
And my technical workshop, with my hobbies. But there are no normal flights here now either,
Now Corona is very bad here too. And in the Netherlands it is not safe either.
Fortunately, we are in good health, and life is wonderful here.
Regards, Gerard and Lily. Marawila area.
Correction…..Mid Feb. 2019… should be mid-February 2020.
Dear Gerard and Eric,
that's what happens when you don't indicate where you're staying in the article. This blog is mainly about people living in Thailand, which does not rule out people living elsewhere. So if you want a good answer, at least give the necessary info in the original article and especially if you don't live in Thailand but in another country. After all, the reader cannot smell this where someone lives.
Dear Lung Addy.
You're right, but because the moderator hadn't posted several of my posts in the past, I'm not going to immediately flaunt that I'm a Sri Lankan "farang."
I'm sorry I misled you.
Kind regards, Gerard Jeu.
Something I always have my doubts about.
See my previous response.
No insurance is a social institution.
As soon as money is involved, they are not flexible, even despite the covid19.
Then they follow the rules.
That's why my question is, has he incurred medical costs, or has a random sample been taken?
Because why is the ZKV conducting an investigation.
Hans van Mourik
Hi Hans.
I am 78 always very healthy, and NEVER claim from my insurance.
Small things, like an ointment or pill, or a blood test twice a year, (always good) I pay for with my pocket money….
However…. in the summer of 2019 I left the hospital in Ned. do a comprehensive hearing test. Because I want to know for myself, and don't trust those free testers who want to sell me a hearing aid.
The bill went straight to the health insurance fund, which sent the bill back to me, because I have a deductible that is higher than the hospital bill.
What you probably want to know, if I woke up sleeping dogs?
I don't think so, insurance, looking at the age, I think…
And they know you spend a lot of time abroad. Then they will investigate that Group, that is the new trend. And try to throw out a certain category.
But they forget ONE thing, that Long Term Care and other medical care in Asian countries only costs a fraction of the cost in the Netherlands. Greetings, Gerard.
This may not be nice for Gerard.
When he went to Sri Lanka for a holiday longer than 3 months, did he also report this to the SVB?
It has to be and why I know that.
Every year I went to the Netherlands for 5 months.
By chance I asked my SVB for permission, if I can use my proof of life in the Netherlands
Received a message back from them via DigiD that I did a good job of messaging them.
This if I leave for longer than 3 months, they want to know to which country, or which is a treaty country.
Been written out.
It has recently become possible every other year.
If I have to do it here, I'll ask if I can do it sooner or later.
My birthday is in June
Also looked at Sri Lanka, is not a treaty country for the SVB.
Hans van Mourik
Three months holiday in any country is allowed if you have state pension and possibly a pension. If you go longer than 3 months, the SVB wants to know because the SVB is not always allowed to pay out the full state pension after those 3 months; there are countries with which no EU or BEU or other treaty has been concluded, and then some provisions of the state pension will lapse.
If you receive another benefit in addition to the AOW, such as the AIO, then different rules apply.
But that has nothing to do with Gerard's question regarding the health insurance policy. In that case, see the links to the judge's ruling, it is about the obligation to take out insurance for the Long-Term Care Act.
Dear Gerard,
This is the "normal" course of events at SVB; I've been fighting with them since 2015, 3 lawsuits and now at Central Appeals Court. It started with the assumption that I had a partner, without any evidence, well sir, we assume that men like you have a partner there, so we cut the state pension.
Won 1st court case at multiple Administrative Court due to unlawful actions by SVB, including by instructing health insurance to cancel the policy and to state that I no longer had a permanent relationship with NL but to collect premiums for WLZ. Five months later, they disregarded the court's decision without appealing. 5 x new case and SVB managed to get the case to Amsterdam with a box of legal tricks, where they apparently have "good contacts". Very dubious on-line session where the judge was clearly biased / had had a preliminary discussion with SVB.
SVB did not believe registration with the municipality, but did not investigate. SVB again asked the health insurer to cancel the policy, which it did not do. SVB is one of the most human/customer-unfriendly agencies in the Netherlands and is just waiting for lawsuits that they try to bring to the Amsterdam court. In short, never provide more than the minimum information because everything will be used against you, make sure you have sufficient evidence for your lasting relationship with the Netherlands, such as telephone / internet / TV subscription, car / motorcycle / moped license plate and insurance, bank account, PIN debits in NL , memberships and whatever else you can think of, AH pass or other pass, and all at your address in the Netherlands. If you are registered with your son at the same address, you run the risk that your state pension will be reduced. Keep tickets to prove when you leave and come back, even stamps in passport are not believed because "difficult to read". SVB decides for itself which “facts” fit into the action against you. Do not give information by phone, everything in writing. They should respond to your letters within 14 days, but it can take 3 months or more.
You can't complain because the minister refuses to handle any complaint (see website) you can only go through the National Ombudsman or court and NO is not interested in these kinds of cases, they can't win points.
Don't give up and always fight everything to the last resort is my advice.
Get well soon.
Thick
Hello Dick.
Would you like to correct, if you live with your own children you will not be cut.
I myself have good experience with the SVB, when I was deregistered
When they unexpectedly came to me years ago to check here in Thailand.
Did I tell her and him, turn on my laptop first, then I will also make coffee before questions are asked.
When they started asking questions, I replied with all the correspondence I made with them.
They also asked if they can look inside, no problem.
Just told them that we're sleeping here together, my girlfriend and I.
I said, that's possible because we live with more than 2 adults, so I gave up.
The only thing I had to send was the names of the people in the blue booklet and the ID card.
A few weeks later, I received a message that nothing will be changed, my single allowance will be retained.
Hans van Mourik.
So if you stay with your own children….. you will not be cut…
How so ? They've already cut me to the max.
Regards, Gerald.
Living with your child does not entitle you to a discount on the AIW. There were once plans in that direction, but they have been shelved for years.
https://www.trouw.nl/nieuws/aow-korting-voor-ouderen-die-bij-hun-kind-inwonen-is-van-de-baan~bdb8bbe2/?referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.nl%2F
https://www.svb.nl/nl/aow/alleen-wonen-of-met-1-of-meer-personen/u-woont-met-1-persoon