Dear readers,
My question to the Thailand blog readers is whether living half in Thailand and half living in the Netherlands is doable? If you are in that circumstance, can you share your experience with me?
My situation
By the end of this year I will have completed 70 laps around the sun. I have been living full-time in Thailand since 2012 with my Thai girlfriend. Since I was 22th I have Type 1 Diabetes and I am insulin dependent. Despite so many years of diabetes, I have not had any complications and am otherwise in good health. I have a so-called lifelong in-patient health insurance and all other medical expenses I pay from my income.
My consideration to live half in Thailand and half in the Netherlands
Every year the costs for my health insurance increase sharply. For the past three years measured in USD at 15% per year and next year I will also get a step increase as I move from the 65-69 year class to the 70-74 year class. I have listed a number of things for me to make the difference in taxes and health costs between Thailand and the Netherlands visible and I have listed them in the table below:
The table shows that living in Thailand will turn from cheaper to less affordable around 2020.
My plan for half Thailand and half the Netherlands
Buy an apartment in the Netherlands and live in the Netherlands twice a year for four months and live in Thailand twice for two months on a 60-day tourist visa. My girlfriend then lives in the Netherlands on her Schengen visa twice for three months. Twice a year one month of rest from my girlfriend (555). I will then be a Dutch resident, subject to domestic tax and insured under the ZVW. In Thailand I am less than 180 days a year and no longer taxable.
My questions to the Thailandblog readers
- Do you have experiences with this half-half way of life and what are those experiences like? What are the pros and cons and what should I pay special attention to?
- Am I covered by Dutch health insurance during my stay in Thailand? Have you ever had medical expenses in Thailand and claimed them with this insurance and what were your experiences in this area.
- Do you have experiences with the weather in the Netherlands? Did the government make things difficult and could you, for example, find a GP or do they no longer hire old people? Etc, etc.
Regards,
Rembrandt
Why do you want to get a 2-day tourist visa twice? Why not NON immigrant O visa and possibly convert to an annual visa? I also want to do almost 60/50 thai/NL from October and I will go for more than a 50-day visa.
Hi Rembrandt,
I regularly go to Thailand for a few months, I rent a condo and a motorcycle.
I like living like that. I get a visa in The Hague or at the immigration office in Thailand.
You may stay outside Europe for 8 months and must stay in the Netherlands for at least 4 months.
This is the only way to remain covered by health insurance. I myself have diabetes 2 and underwent a knee replacement in Phitsanulok and it was all reimbursed by my insurance (Ohra) within 14 days. I recently suffered a hernia and had an MRI scan made at the BKK hospital in Khorat and everything was reimbursed. I am now 75 years old and I like this very much. Been doing this for years and no worries.
Greetings Co Vaag
We have been staying in Thailand for 6 months and 6 months in the Netherlands for several years. And that mainly for health insurance. If I am in Thailand for longer than 6 months minus 1 day, my health insurance will expire. I have state pension and the SVB no longer allows you, while if you are a regular resident you can go abroad for 8 months.
Personally, I think that in addition to your calculation of your health insurance, it is also important to look at other cost items. Buying a house in NL is currently significantly more expensive than a few years ago. In some places it is even difficult to buy an affordable house. You also have other costs that living in NL entails, such as municipal taxes. Twice tickets to BKK etc. If you have Dutch health insurance and go on holiday to Thailand, you are insured up to 100% of the costs charged in the Netherlands, but usually only for unforeseeable medical expenses. Supplementary insurance with foreign coverage is recommended. We ourselves have experience with ONVZ when my son had to have surgery and that went very well and the company paid in full and advanced. It is important if you come to NL again to take the so-called free choice because many cheap health insurance policies exclude a lot. As a Dutchman, there is no problem to settle in NL again, but finding accommodation can be. Many GPs, like mine, stop taking patients because they are too busy. (on the basis of age, the doctor may not refuse you).
I'm sorry there haven't been any replies to this question yet.
I'm not (yet) in such a situation, but I'm preparing for it.
Personally, I would opt for half/half for now.
I hope to get some feedback from experts.
I think you will also incur more travel costs .
Fly yourself back and forth twice with everything that comes with it besides the plane ticket alone , and your girlfriend also flies up and down twice .
I think you have lost more than 3000 Euro just going up and down .
If your girlfriend comes to the Netherlands, don't forget that she must also meet the schengen requirements for two times 3 months.
Do you have a regular monthly gross income that meets those requirements?
And you also have to think about health and travel insurance for the time that your girlfriend stays here.
You also lose money for the purchase of an apartment with all additional costs such as service costs, insurance, property tax and so on.
And how do you travel in the Netherlands yourself? Buy a car with all the associated costs or always travel by public transport.
I think the whole cost will be more expensive than staying in Thailand for the whole year.
Jan Beute.
That involves a lot of flying back and forth and applying for visas, which takes up a lot of time and money. Buying an apartment in the Netherlands, what does it cost to purchase and additional costs? I have been living in a chalet on a campsite for over 15 years now, cycled to work where I worked for 6 months and went to Thailand for 6 months. Since registering in the municipality's basic administration was never possible, but staying at a campsite was, I used a postal address with good friends or family. This has no financial consequences for them and the costs are lower for myself. The stay at a good campsite also seemed like a good campsite
I feel more comfortable than in an apartment or flat. You could stay in the Netherlands for 4 months, your girlfriend for 3 months, she then has one month off, as you say. You remain insured and often together in Thailand.
Hello, a clear overview of your costs and expected costs.
Costs that are added, if you choose half Thailand and half the Netherlands / Belgium
Are the additional costs, especially living in the Netherlands the living costs
House, energy, municipal taxes, extra airline tickets are the biggest costs.
Eating and drinking doesn't matter much, of course, you have to be in both countries
Speaking for myself as a 64 year old, I have opted for approximately 50 percent in both countries.
I chose that option, the advantage of which is better contact with my children and grandchildren in Holland, and can choose the best climate periods in both countries.
And it gives me a better sense of security, that you can always fall back
on a better social safety net in the Netherlands
If you look purely at the expense side, living in (now) Thailand alone would be a lot cheaper.
Making the right choice is so personal. but just for you to think about the possibility.
and windshield think, think that you can make the right choice.
Greetings from Rotterdam
Like Co, I will be in the Netherlands for at least 4 months and I will still be covered by Dutch health insurance (PMA - Menzis).
Have had my ears cleaned a few times and keep the bill and send it when I return home and then also neatly deducted from my own risk, which I have not used up with 10 visits.
To go to the ENT 2x in the Netherlands, I can go 15 x in Bangkok, the only difference is that the chair is not as modern as in the Netherlands and that there is another nurse standing by to give something or clean up if necessary.
The TV screen to watch what is happening is also there and cleaning is done the same.
So far I have gone on a retirement visa but during my upcoming visit I am applying for a Thai wife visa on changwattana road in Bangkok. This is also valid for 1 year and you no longer have to leave the country every 3 months, you only have to report.
The disadvantage of this is the travel and the additional costs (which are not in your schedule, so another 2 years of cheaper living in Thailand) advantage you see the family again.
Have no experience with going back, but think that you can simply write to a GP in the place where you intend to live to ask that question.
Dear Tom,
with a “retirement visa” (non-Immigrant O), valid for 1 year, you do not have to leave the country every 3 months; the 90-day reporting obligation to the Immigration Office, if you are present in Thailand at that time, remains in force.
Dear Rembrandt,
Bought an apartment in NL myself after a few years. During the hot period in TH I stay in NL.
Your health insurance is an important expense item. Lifelong insurance with a foreign company, such as BUPA, sounds nice, but if you declare something serious (expensive), your premium may suddenly rise even more the following year. Perhaps so much that it is almost impossible to bear; then you may automatically be forced to say goodbye. Your age and diabetes make it even more difficult or impossible to get coverage elsewhere.
AA Insurance in Pattaya or Hua Hin may be able to give you some advice.
General preference is for Dutch health insurance: reliable, obligation to hire.
Also take out: additional insurance, so that any adverse difference between NL and TH health bill is also covered by NL insurance, because private hospital Thailand can be more expensive than treatment in NL. Without additional insurance, you will have to pay for the difference yourself.
If you declare Thai medical costs to a NL company, the invoice must meet various requirements (eg: invoice drawn up in English, specification of consultations and medicines, doctor's admission number, etc.; check with your NL insurance company).
Some hospitals in TH have not responded to this, so inquire and indicate in advance.
At (more expensive) private hospitals in TH with a lot of experience in treating expats, tourists are usually not a problem.
I usually go to good state hospitals: if the financial damage is not too bad, I don't even declare.
You can buy an apartment in NL again and register as a resident there instead.
General practitioners do not find it a problem in itself, but some have a pause in acceptance due to full practice.
Visa: retirement visa (non-immigrant O), valid for 1 year, only 90 days to report to Immigration. Be careful to purchase a re-entry visa (single or multiple) in advance,
With 2 x 4 months in NL, you are mainly in NL, so you are liable for tax here.
Your girlfriend comes over with a Schengen visa, may fly alone a few times without your company. It's none of my business, but how does she feel about a longer stay in NL, without her family, friends. And if something serious happens to you, has something been arranged for her? (NL will, possibly also Thai will as SUPPLEMENT to NL will, because normally only the last will is valid).
Success in planning and execution.
I miss a third list of costs for the case of the combination TH-NL.
The fact that you are thinking of buying an apartment indicates that you have considerable assets and/or a large income (€40k/year?). As others have already written, you should also think of the additional fixed costs (OZ tax, sewage treatment, home contents / building insurance, water board, etc.). A postal address/PO box could sometimes cause problems for benefits, because I think you must have your own facilities (kitchen, bathroom, toilet).
I would buy a (small) house/apartment in NL and register at that address to stay there for the 4 summer months. (Foodlover claims that as a state pensioner you can only stay abroad for 6 months. I think that is incorrect.)
I think you pay tax to NL on your income and assets in NL and to TH tax on your assets in TH. I thought there is a treaty between NL and TH to prevent double taxation.
When choosing a NL health insurer for the basic insurance, I would also check whether you are accepted for their additional insurance, how much extra it costs and the coverage.
The advantage of the NL basic insurance compared to private insurers is that existing conditions are never excluded.
It is wise to take out travel insurance for your 8-month stay in TH.
You do not need to apply for a visa for TH at the embassy/consulate if you request a re-entry each time before departure from TH and if you renew your Thai residence permit in good time every year.
I suspect that your income is above the gross minimum wage (€1565/month), so you can be a sponsor for your girlfriend. A return ticket and travel insurance for her will not be a problem in that case. The only question that remains is whether you can convince the IND to return to TH in time (care for parents and/or children, employment contract, possession of real estate).
The travel costs, 1 return ticket THNL, for you together will easily amount to €1500.
I think it's a very bad plan by Rembrandt and he doesn't have the picture complete. (Unless he has children and grandchildren in NL that he wants to see more often…)
All extra costs in the Netherlands + travel costs have already been mentioned by others. What is still missing is the return on the 300.000 (???) euros that must be paid for an apartment.
I estimate that the bill in NL will just be 6000-10.000 euros higher than the 2600 he outlines in 2022. In addition, so much hassle with time, planning a trip, arranging a visa, et cetera. I'm already tired of it... All that effort to save 2600 euros?
Minus the 6000 euros, Rembrandt will still be 2022 euros more expensive in the Netherlands in 3400. And relaxed living in Thailand is also worth something.
But has Rembrandt ever thought of the following?
He apparently has a generous sum of money, enough to buy an apartment and has money to pay 2022 euros per year for health insurance in 12.000. He says he is in good health apart from diabetes: if I were Rembrandt I would cancel that health insurance in Thailand. He thus saves 10 to 100.000 euros in 120.000 years. Together with those 3 tons, that is more than enough to pay for any major surgery/treatment.
In addition: at an advanced age you can still insure yourself in Thailand with, for example, Cigna for a premium of USD 3000-4000 with a deductible towards USD 10.000.
But as said before; with a lot of my own money… I wouldn't do it.
Dear Rembrandt,
I am sure that what Jan Beute and other people write is more than reality!
In the Netherlands: buying a house or flat, traveling there and back, insurance, buying a car, the much more expensive life in the Netherlands and Belgium!
Here you still pay less than half for purchases, and if someone comes to do a job you pay that person 8 euros a day and everyone is happy!
Contact with the children and grandchildren, pffftt, you can easily solve this with Facebook!
You can talk, you see them and if you want to hold them, you pay them a plane ticket to stay with you for a few weeks! I do it like this anyway!
in 2009 and the following 3 years I came to Thailand for 6 months each time
and married a sweet Thai lady who is 20 years younger than me and takes very good care of me!
In 2013 I deregistered from Belgium and no longer have to pay taxes!
I also sold my house in Ostend because when are you going to Thailand?
To avoid the severe cold, wind, wet snow and so many more inconveniences during the winter!
But then your house will also deteriorate for six months due to weather conditions, mold, less heat,
no ventilation, and the enormous risk that your house will be robbed empty!
I am 71 years old and I am also a diabetic patient, but you should not tell all this to the insurance people!
Just say that you are in good shape, don't smoke, don't drink much, walk and cycle a lot, eat responsibly and don't use any medication!
Sorry, now and then a viagra LOL LOL! If you tell the truth they won't accept you, so lie for your OWN good!
I took out life insurance with AIA before I was 70!
88.500 Baht a year, I know a lot of money, but lucky I did this,
last year I was hospitalized for three days because my sugar dropped to 49, way too low of course!
The people of AIA transported me with their own car, I was immediately examined, a baxter and taken to a nice modern room!
The AIA people did all the paperwork, my wife and I didn't have to do anything!
I had requested a VIP room and had to pay 500 Baht per night for it!
The rest was paid without any hassle by AIA!ç
This year I was hospitalized for three days in an even better hospital in Nakon Sowan with kidney stones,
same shelter, driving 150 kilometers in their car, examined and delivered from the kidney stones the next morning!
This time I had NOTHING to pay for the VIP room promotion for farangs and everything was paid for by AIA without any problems!
And another thing, after my first and second shots I got a letter from AIA with a check for a total of 21.000 plus smart money!
I also read that people complain about AIA, I can't write anything but good about it so far!
I live in a village of Phet Chompoo just past Kamphaeng Phet,
I built a nice house here, no architect, everything was drawn by myself, no problems with permits, everything is fine!
No inspections, nothing! Cheap water, cheap electricity, what more could you want?
If you want to know the address of those AIA people, they drive everywhere, let me know!
here my email address: [email protected]
I hope you find something useful in my writing!
Eric!
>Will I be covered by Dutch health insurance during my stay in Thailand?
There's something about that. I believe you can be abroad for a maximum of 8 months, then your Dutch insurance will stop (also depends on the insurer). Now everyone has the right to travel around the world, so if you do that once (longer than 8 months), that is allowed. You can ask your Dutch insurer about this. Something like that, I believe. http://www.verzekereninthailand.nl know the hat and the brim. I would inquire there.
Oean Eng
Thank you for all your comments and also for those that may come. I have carefully read all the contributions and there are many valuable experiences and good advice among them. It's not that I want to leave Thailand in a hurry, but in the long run I want to be in the Netherlands more because of (Grand) children, health care and culture.
Before I moved to Thailand I lived in Twente and a small apartment is still affordable there. I have a cohabitation agreement with my girlfriend under Dutch law and when I die she will receive a widow's pension with which she can live well in Thailand. Just before I retired she lived with me in the Netherlands twice for three months and she really liked it then.
Thanks again.
Rembrandt
Most of it has already been said, but that limitation of the old age pension to 6 months is nonsense. If you are going abroad for more than 3 months with state pension, you must report this to the SVB. We then look at which country you are going to: this determines the amount of your AOW benefit (Cambodia BV is not a treaty country, then you only receive 50% minimum wage). However, you are not allowed to stay away for more than 8 months without deregistering from the Netherlands.
Thailand is a treaty country, and if you live alone you will simply receive the full AOW. As a cohabitant, you only receive 50% of the minimum wage anyway.
I myself have been traveling back and forth 2 x 3 months in recent years, and I find this (besides the cost of about 1800 euros in total) very tiring and stressful.
In your case, there will therefore be quite a few costs and difficulties if you decide to live partly in the Netherlands. Not only the costs of municipal taxes and travel costs already mentioned by others (also for your girlfriend!), but also your girlfriend's annual visa applications (still a trip to Bangkok every time). In addition, you will notice that you are considerably more expensive with daily groceries (cooking for 1 or 2 people does not matter much) and, of course, double costs in terms of gas, light and transport. Especially gas and electricity are expensive in the Netherlands because you pay a very high fixed fee, the actual use is negligible in my case. For example, my wife has no income of her own in Thailand, so I still have to pay for her living expenses. Then there is a motorcycle and a car in the Netherlands, and one in Thailand, all with maintenance, MOT and insurance costs.
Finally: I see in your statement that you assume that healthcare costs will remain the same in the Netherlands in the coming years. I can tell you that this will not be the case. There was already a deficit of 2 billion in healthcare costs, so those premiums will really still go up by 5 to 10% per year.
All in all, you will be a lot worse off financially if you go “part-time”.
And I can't look into your heart, but those 6 months that I (forced) to spend in the Netherlands I miss my Thai family very much...