Dear readers,
I am 71 years old, single and top fit. I also have no contact with my other family. Also, I don't know any acquaintances who can give me advice. I want to leave everything in the Netherlands behind me for good and live in Thailand for good.
I don't own much. I don't need and can't afford to move furniture. I plan to only take my valuables and books with me on the plane. I've thought about this for a very long time. I only have a monthly state pension. This is 1084.57 euros.
Before I make the decision to go to Thailand, I still have some questions I want answered and not until I'm in Thailand. I don't intend to leave everything behind here and be faced with surprises and stress in Thailand. Maybe for other people, but it doesn't work that way for me. So far, I have not been able to speak to any agency or private person from whom I can get answers to the following questions in a PERSONAL interview.
The embassy and consulate in The Hague and Amsterdam, as well as Foreign and Social Affairs, etc. do not do this. They also don't make appointments and simply don't want to help me further. They just say "why"? They only issue visas. So I literally stand alone everywhere. In my opinion this is not normal. What would you do?
Now to start with my questions:
Firstly : Is there any body at all that can and wants to answer my questions, or any of you (private person)? Can I also - when I have rented a house, keep it if I only get a visa for 3 months?
Second: How can I get a simple cheap home as quickly as possible? I only want to arrange this when I arrive. I plan to live in a hotel for the time being and then seek help to find a rental.
Third: What really matters to me, is there really no possibility for me to live there permanently and not have to leave the country every 3 months? When I become old and infirm or sick in the future, this does not seem a pleasant thought to me and see this as a problem.
Finally: What can I expect in terms of social and health insurance and what are the rules in the event of death?
Yours faithfully,
Johan
I'll make an attempt.
Firstly : Is there any body at all that can and wants to answer my questions, or any of you (private person)? Can I also - when I have rented a house, keep it if I only get a visa for 3 months?
There is enough knowledge and experience in this blog to help you with your questions. You may ask the editors for my email address; after 12 years here I don't know everything but I do know 'what'.
Renting a home is usually not dependent on your stamp. You can ask the landlord for the conditions.
Second: How can I get a simple cheap home as quickly as possible. I only want to arrange this when I arrive. I plan to live in a hotel for the time being and then seek help to find a rental.
What's cheap? If I may say so, you can't rent a palace on your income. A small house or apartment and then it becomes important where you want to live. Large cities or coasts are usually more expensive than a village in the Isan.
Third: What really matters to me, is there really no possibility for me to live there permanently and not have to leave the country every 3 months. When I become old and infirm or sick in the future, this does not seem a pleasant thought to me and see this as a problem.
You are 49+ and single, so you have to go for a retirement extension. You come here with a NON IM O and convert it within validity. Conditions: either an income of 65.000 baht per month, or an amount of 800.000 baht (or equivalent in other currencies) in a Thai bank or a combination of the 2 together 800.000 baht. Your income at a rate of 42 is good for 546.000 baht (I forget the holiday allowance in May) so you need at least 250.000 baht in the bank. If you don't have that, don't start.
If you do not have that reserve for, among other things, the extension and for calamities, then do not start. Stick to holidays.
Last: What can I expect in terms of Social and Health insurance and what are the rules in the event of death?
Nothing is there for you. Your NL healthcare policy stops. There is no safety net other than your income and your own savings. Provided you are fit, you may be able to get a Thai or international health insurance policy, but many of those policies have an acceptance up to 70 years. There is an NL agent in Hua Hin who advertises here.
Rules in the event of death? That's the only thing for which there are no rules; the rest is all laid down in law. If you die and no one comes to arrange your cremation, the government will arrange for you to be cremated. They will pass on your passport to Immigration, who will inform the embassy.
I'm happy to help you with other questions but in private and only by email..
Dear Johan,
I advise you to contact Erik.
As I expected, there are already many inaccuracies mentioned in the comments. Of course there is a sleeve to adjust everywhere in Thailand and residence is possible through less legal ways. Recently, the 'Visa Run' has also been overhauled and it will become increasingly difficult to stay in Thailand outside the law for a long time.
The fact is, however, that you must receive 65 K baht per month as income, or 800 K in the bank. This can also be done in combination, as clearly calculated by Erik.
For the NL law we emigrate to Thailand and this means no social services (including health insurance) from the Netherlands. We are NOT immigrants under Thai law. It is not possible to fully immigrate to Thailand (with the exception of residents) and as 'immigrants' we remain dependent on the legislation regarding 'NON – immigrant' visas. (a handful of foreigners can become 'Thai residents' every year, provided you meet a number of conditions and pay a one-off amount of 800K baht).
Healthy single people with only a state pension can have a good life in Thailand, provided you have a modest lifestyle. Western food is more expensive in Thailand than in the Netherlands. Alcoholic beverages too. If you like Thai food and don't live in the touristic areas, life is relaxed. Khon Kaen, Udon and Chiang Mai are also places with many Dutch retirees, where life is affordable.
Risk: Illness is the biggest risk of disappointment in Thailand. Hospitals are good, but expat insurance is expensive when you're over seventy.
I wanted to inform you, but Erik's information is, in my opinion, sincere and complete.
This blog has a file 'death in Thailand'. Have you already looked there?
And furthermore, this is one of the advertisers here…..
http://www.verzekereninthailand.nl/
so go there and ask about a health insurance policy.
I am very curious about further considerations. Thanks in advance
sabine
to start with the bad news right away: you cannot emigrate to Thailand with only a state pension. You simply will not get a retirement visa.
Perhaps there are other countries where this is possible. Another country within the EU might be an option.
I don't want to give the people a living, who have to live on an AOW income in the Netherlands.
Is life in Thailand more expensive then? Do I have to pay more tax in Thailand?
If you want to live in Pattaya and go to the bar every night, a state pension is not enough.
This has been discussed so much on Thaiblog. If I had the option to live in Thailand after the age of 65,
then I didn't think twice. Because the choice is clear: living in the Netherlands on an AOW benefit
with a guarantee of good care or life in Thailand with all its advantages. But if you get sick, you're on your own. Make sure you can always come back to the Netherlands. Who then lives, who then cares.
It does not matter whether or not you can get by with only a state pension in NL or Thailand. You simply do not get a visa from Thailand to live there. It is the Kingdom of Thailand that imposes a minimum income requirement!
In my opinion, Dutch insurers do not have to insure you if you leave for a non-treaty country. Some health insurers do offer health insurance for abroad, but you will receive health questions and if there is something wrong with you, the premium will be higher or they will refuse to insure you.
I can imagine everything in the wish to “completely leave the Netherlands behind you” but don't forget one thing that wherever you go you take yourself with you. Getting away from something negative doesn't always solve everything. Anyway: emigrate to Thailand and what does that mean in this case.
Visa issues:
Long-term residence in Thailand is difficult with only an old-age pension. Until recently, this was possible “through a back door” by doing a so-called “Visa Run” every three months. The Immigration Authorities have put a stop to this and that will soon no longer be possible. If you had enough savings in the bank, a retirement Visa might work and then it is sufficient to go to the immigration office every three months (and that could even be done in writing). But as soon as you have to break into those savings for a setback (medical, for example) you will no longer be able to work at the next renewal (demonstrate financial status again every year).
Economically achieveable?
It depends on your spending habits. Much is cheaper here, but not everything, for example if you drink and/or smoke a lot, then a lot of money goes down the drain. It also seems that the state pension will pay less and less price compensation and prices in Thailand are also going up and never going down. But the biggest item is health insurance.
Health insurance:
The costs go up drastically: the health care act lapses when you emigrate and privately you pay rotten at that age and if you "have something among the members" you have a chance of exclusions.
home:
There is plenty to rent in Thailand and indeed cheaper than in the Netherlands, but beautiful locations in Thailand are also more expensive, so don't expect too much.
social life:
Of course, to live a bit here you also need a social context (friends, acquaintances, a club…) are you able to build that up?
passing away:
That goes here just like everywhere else, sometimes unannounced sometimes after an agony. Thailand is not such a nice place for the latter, but when it is "over", the government will clean up everything behind your back.
Conclusion for me:
I'm 76 and I'm having a great time here on my own (without a partner), but with a state pension and a nice pension. I travel a lot in surrounding countries and go to Europe once a year. I simply live in a rented apartment that I have renovated myself, but I would not be able to get enough on a state pension, even without traveling. For my insurance I have lost 2000 euros per year, but if I had to take it out again now, it would certainly be 5 to 6000 euros per year.
Living costs are about 750-1000 Euro per year for something small, but my living costs are clearly higher.
With what I now know about Thailand (already 12 years in Thailand and a total of 25 years outside the Netherlands) I would not start an emigration with only an old-age pension. Under the healthcare law umbrella, it is much better to spend as much of your AOW as possible in a cheap country that you like (such as Thailand, for example). Keep a very minimal place cheap, with your own address in the Netherlands (be careful with subletting!!!) and use the rest to enjoy. Always take a return ticket so that you can return to the Netherlands if necessary. You can also leave the Netherlands “emotionally” behind. But if you don't have anything to start with now, it's very difficult to realize.
Dear Johan,
I have been living in Thailand for over 3 years. Bought a condo.
You cannot live here on your state pension alone. that is 43500 Bath. For a retirement visa you have to earn mons THB 80 000/ basket.
If you are unsubscribed. Do you have to take out voluntary health insurance At your age if you are accepted it will cost about THB 215000 THB /year.
In your case it is better to remain registered in the Netherlands with Dutch health insurance. ( Fly back to Ned twice a year.
I think this is the only good solution.
success
This is therefore an impossible solution with only an AOW.
You are mistaken. 65000 baht per month.
Greetings,
dontejo
Before you take the step to move to Thailand permanently, I advise you to first try to stay in Thailand for half a year or a year.
Then you can effectively check how much? or how little? life in Thailand costs. You can make contacts with other farrangs from your country. You can obtain good information and experience it personally with regard to administrative matters.
You now also have the opportunity to obtain all kinds of information about whether or not to buy or rent a house or condo. What does it cost?, where is it located?, what are the disadvantages of the home?, what are the neighbors like?, what are common costs? (…).
I came to live in Thailand in 2009. Currently I live in Pattaya Tropical village (200 houses) where mainly farrangs live. I see that many, including myself, are very satisfied. But I also see that some, for various reasons, move back to their native country (life too expensive, too little benefit, ambras with partner, too hot...)
If you want to try it out, you are always welcome in our guest room and I will be happy to help and assist you. http://www.freelearningthai.com/guesthouse/ourguesthousenl.htm
hello johan i have faced the same problem and am now 66 years old and 17 years have gained a lot of experience here and almost everything can be arranged here, if you only know the way. I am currently in Holland and really want to inform you privately in an honest way. This is a country full of "pitfalls", but if you follow the right path it is ok here. fr gr eduard ([email protected])
Hello Edward,
Please provide the correct e-mail address.
Thanks in advance,
Do
In a cheap place you can probably get by on only state pension.
If possible, try a trial run for a few months: rent accommodation.
And take out extra travel insurance (including urgent hospitalization abroad).
If you still like it after those few months, then you can look further.
Health insurance is indeed a matter to arrange properly.
You are an older young person, an expat insurer may still hire you, but after a serious illness the premium can just be increased by tens of percent, and again after a subsequent illness. That expensive insurance then becomes completely unaffordable; do you leave automatically and where can you still go because of the age? (possibly return to NL, register with the municipality and NL basic health insurance, there is an obligation to assume for basic health insurance).
The Thai state hospitals vary in quality: you have good ones and they are not expensive.
Many Thai private hospitals are real money factories, including unnecessary interventions and very expensive medicines.
An honest insurance advisor will agree that Dutch health insurance is above all else. Possibility: in case of major, but not emergency care, to the hospital in NL on the basis of your Dutch health insurance; for urgent matters, first contact your travel insurance company for any emergency admission in Thailand.
You can also choose to take the gamble and not purchase health insurance.
In case of illness to a state hospital until you run out of money. But then handed over to the gods. Doesn't sound like a happy thought to me. Acquaintance of mine was allowed to sell flat to pay for private hospital.
Possibility could be: 6-8 months Thailand, 4-6 months the Netherlands, so that you remain affordable and well insured in NL. You must then remain registered in NL at your own address (not a ghost citizen, which is increasingly being checked by the government).
If you do not like humid heat, it is nice to spend several months in the Netherlands during the hot Thai period.
You can arrange a "retirement visa" through the Thai embassy, my experience is that you can arrange it easier, faster and cheaper in Thailand at "Immigration", eg Bangkok - Jomtien.
You can possibly link a single or multiple re-entry permit to the “retirement visa”, so that you can leave and enter Thailand during that period. The visa is valid for one year, you do not have to make a "border run", but you do have to report every 90 days to an Immigration office in Thailand; being late means fine. Renew visa after one year. There are some conditions attached, such as proof of financial standing, as already stated by others.
Good luck with the decision making.
Am currently in the Netherlands, and happy to share my 10 years of life experience with you.
If interested, please send an email. With kind regards, Folgert.
Hi Folgert,
Please provide your email address as I have a few questions.
Greetings Will
The best response I have read and advised so far is to apply for a visa for three months and get advice during those months from those who have offered this here. I myself did this 2 years ago to see if I could actually ground here. Must also mention that I have had contact with my wife for 2 years now.
You may also speak English outside the Dutch language, which you could use at various points in Thailand. Airport eg.
Perhaps you were previously married and if so, you still have a surviving dependant's pension in addition to your AOW. But I don't think so since you don't write about that, but just to be sure.
I wish you the best of luck and hope you succeed with the help offered here
Greetings Dunghen.
Here's my advice to you.
Simply remain registered in NL if you have knowledge or take a postal address. You will then simply remain in the care package of NL.
You will also receive your healthcare allowance and your state pension.
Then go to Thailand apply for a visa and rent here in the isaan Udonthani for 4000 bath is barely 100 euros a nice house (there are plenty for rent here)
Then you go back to the Netherlands every 8 months and just come back to Thailand. You open a bank account here and if you have a NL bank card you can simply withdraw money here.
Don't be put off by all kinds of stories that you can't make it with only aow.
Don't forget that if you live quietly you don't go out much here, you don't buy an expensive Vigo or a house for a Thai woman that you live 50% cheaper than in NL. No tax and few general costs.
And sooner or later you will run into a nice Thai knick-knack, but then you have to watch out. Don't work with a barmaid. Never take care of her whole family. Stay in charge of your own wallet.
Stories that you can't get a visa with only aow is a fairy tale story. This week a friend of mine from NL, 65 years old, came with a visa for a year. He will stay here for 8 months, then go back to NL and come again for 8 months. He now rents a spacious house for 4 bath.
If you want to know more, you can always send me a personal email. But don't be fooled, there is a solution for everything.
You can leave for 8 months per year, so 4 months in the Netherlands.
Before I emigrated to Thailand, I had many problems here
with the benefits agencies, even before the courts.
Be careful with this solution.
Greetings,
dontejo.
Dear Johan! I myself have been a Thailander for years and hope to live longer or permanently in Thailand when I reach state pension age. I also have little supplementary pension in addition to my state pension and will probably run into the same problems as you. But because I've been collecting information for years, which you will also need, personal contact could be useful. So if you live near my current place of residence in Breda, you are more than welcome to drop by. My email address can be requested from Thailandblog or comment on this message.
Success!
Khaki
Have you learned the language?
Otherwise you are bound to places where they also speak English (if you speak English of course).
Those places are usually a bit more expensive than a village in the rice fields.
It also gets very lonely when you can't talk to anyone.
Ko, you are unfortunately wrong with your comments..
A retirement extension has the condition…
or 65 k baht income per month
or 8 ton baht in a Thai bank (or equivalent in other currency)
or a combination of those 2 together 8 tons.
See my detailed explanation to Johan and elsewhere in this blog. See the visa dossier of this blog. If necessary, consult the Immigration website.
With an AOW pension you can live well in Chiangmai you do not have to insure yourself for the care that the SVB does for you with the CVZ in Diemen, Thailand is a treaty country with the Netherlands, I lived in Spain for 27 years and the SVB paid my medical expenses in Spain via CVZ in Diemen, I received a ticket for a pensioner and I could go to the doctor, hospital and the pharmacist via the securidad social, ask your SVB office what to do for Thailand, greetings Pascal
That's not right, Pascal, the arrangement you 'enjoyed' in Spain only applies in Europe.
See the relevant text below from the Dutch embassy in Spain:
“If you only have a Dutch AOW, pension or benefit while you live in Spain, you and your family members are entitled to public medical care in Spain (seguridad social) due to rules that apply within Europe. You can then request the E121/S1 form from the Zorginstituut Nederland. You must then submit this form to the Spanish Instituto Nacional de la Seguridad Social (INSS) in your place of residence. You will then receive a pass (tarjeta sanitaria of the INSS). You can receive care in the Netherlands and in other European countries with your European Health Insurance Card (EHIC). You must apply for this EHIC at the National Health Care Institute.”
Definitely not true, because Thailand is not a treaty country! If you still have NL health insurance, then in principle only very urgent matters in Thailand will be reimbursed, and for that you must also FIRST request & get permission from the NL health insurer! On this blog there are several messages from people who did NOT ask permission FIRST and then had to pay the bill themselves!
Health insurance remains a very important point, and a so-called 'foreign policy' is expensive (currently around 350 euros/month). Other foreign or Thai private insurance policies are also expensive (particularly given your age), especially in the long term, because the premium usually rises sharply with age – if they don't stop at a certain age!
Is cheaper than getting an annual card from the Thai health insurance (also called '30 Baht scheme'). This currently costs about 2800 Baht per year and covers basic facilities in the local Thai government hospital, but extensive treatments (eg surgery) require an additional payment, as well as medicines.
Your AOW income will continue to be taxed in the Netherlands. You can certainly live reasonably well in Thailand on about 45000 Baht per month, but with that monthly income you are not eligible for a so-called 'retirement visa' – unless you also have a nice amount in a Thai bank account.
The current income requirements for a 'retirement visa' are: either a monthly income of 65.000 Baht, or a bank balance in Thailand of 800.000 Baht, or a combination of both that averages 65.000 Baht per month. See file 'Visa Thailand' or go to http://www.nvtpattya.org and look under 'Useful!' to 'All about Thai visas'.
Note: the above supersedes the current rules. These can always change! For further information you can reach me at [email protected]
The harsh reality is that the OP does not meet the Visa requirements. He can of course go down side roads, but sooner or later he will also run into the lamp.
And the immigration detention center Suan Phlu is a place you better not get acquainted with
Henry, please tell the truth! Ko same here. You give incorrect information about the retirement extension.
I've already written down the numbers. As long as the topic starter does not indicate that he is unable to leave a few thousand euros in the bank, there is the possibility to go for the combination of income and bank money.
It is clear that Mr. has a low income and cannot make any leaps and bounds. That sir runs into a high health care policy, yes, that is also clear. I think my advice is also clear.
But with only an AOW you can get a retirement extension provided there is some bank money.. Take a look at the file of this blog. Then the eyes will open, I hope. You are now declaring falsehoods, gentlemen!
Johan, Very recently I went through this entire procedure. I leave on June 11 with an OA visa. If the editors allow it (after all, chatting is not allowed), they may pass on my e-mail address to you. I have found a very good rental property in anticipation of building a house there. Sincerely.
Jan
You say that you only have an AOW income of EUR 1084,57. Well if you have no further income such as pension and if you have no savings then the answer to your question is very simple. With this income you will not get a visa and you cannot move to Thailand. So there is no further reason to answer your other questions.
When you die, I do not agree with Eric, if you are married to a Thai woman, she decides what
happened to your body. Your children in the Netherlands must give permission to the embassy
in Bangkok for the cremation, or you have to have a will drawn up by a notary. Living together
with a Thai woman she can't decide what to do with her body. I don't have this wisdom
from myself but from the Dutch embassy.
Greetings Lee.
Man, what are you doing at the age of 71? I came here about 40 years ago and I'm still here. You can't emigrate here, you get a visa as a tourist, which you can extend for a year. A so-called retirement extension, if you meet the financial obligations. You do not live here, you only do that with a Residence Visa or Thai Nationality, regardless of what the SVB says or insists. So you live in a kind of limbo, NL says you are emigrated and Th says you are a tourist, you do not live here. Experienced a lot in the approximately 40 years that I have lived here. I myself have no money in the bank here or have possessions, have a bank in NL and use the ATM, can leave on the minute, if necessary. That you don't get a Retirement Extension with an AOW is the biggest untruth. I have such an extension and not a penny in the bank. If you know the way here everything is possible, period Health insurance, at your age, is not possible, can you manage to do that, all previous things, for which you have been treated, are not reimbursed, and they will find out. I do not have insurance myself, but go to NL. ,I am 77 and had to have an inguinal hernia operation.Now it appears that,when one is over 70,one is subjected to very intense tests,mandatory by law.Everything was good but surgeon refused to operate on me,too old,go to another hospital, the same thing happened to a 78 yr Thai acquaintance of mine.
Moderator: after a period or a comma there should be a space. That would greatly improve the readability of your response. Do you want to do that from now on?
Another thing, make sure you get a credit card from your bank, you are covered in an emergency. I also have 1 with Euro 5000-max. Do you also need to have a certain income, but can also be avoided. solution.
Attn Wil Tegenbosch I think it was a good e-mail address but try this one [email protected] fr.g. eduard
Dear Johan,
To start: read my book 'The smile behind exciting Thailand', publisher Elikser, Leeuwarden. Then you know almost everything. I am in Thailand and the Netherlands on a half-yearly basis. I am your age and I can recommend it. Moreover, I advise you to look for a cozy relationship somewhere outside the tourist atmosphere. Everything is half the price and the women are twice as sweet! Renting a house / apartment is never a problem. With me (in Sakaew) you rent new for 5000 to 8000 baht per month.
Success.
Regards,
Jer
Dear John
I would think about it for a while, the biggest stumbling block is and remains money.
If you don't have enough reserves, you can expect great misery,
that does not have to be today, but can also happen later.
1100 seems like a “lot” there, but the month usually has 30-31 days, and money goes very fast.
If you stay there you also want to do something, you can not sit on a chair in front of the apartment all day.
Mentioned here many times, health insurance, the older, the more expensive, you must be able to afford this. (We remain one of the biggest pitfalls)
Not insuring is very unwise, especially if you are a bit older.
There is no safety net on site, in case of very unexpected expenses.
Renting a house / apartment does indeed not have to be expensive, even in Bkk I have seen offers of around 100/150 euros per minute.
Gas and light and water are added to this, an arco draws a lot of electricity, and is again the most expensive.
They will certainly do something about the 4 and 8 month story in the future, just like the residence visas, this can just be over, and you are left with nothing.
Also something that I myself expect, that the Dutch government decides to adjust the state pension to local circumstances, yes that will not make you happy, this can just happen.
You can never pay women, going out, and other party events from the remaining amount (after deducting the costs of 1100), it becomes a bit of a hermit life, do you want that?
Since '89 I've seen and met many people who lost everything and couldn't go any further,
also a point of attention.
On one of the other forums there was a story of Nl bicycle maker, living in Bkk of only Aow, the best man still had a batter running, and then had nothing left, he could live under a corrugated iron. (was a few years ago)
The latter seems to me the worst thing you can experience in the promised land.
My advice think about it for a while, and just stick to the occasional holiday, saves a lot of stress and misery.
ann
Dear Johan,
We also want to be of service to you in answering your many questions.
We are also aware of Thai legislation in the legal field. (my wife studied law)
Only the takeover of power by the army could change some things in the legislation in the future.
We also appreciate doing this in a personal interview so that you get a direct question and answer.
You can contact us via our email address: [email protected]
Sincerely,
Nok and Chang