Extra integration requirements: 'Painting at its best'
Some time ago we published an article about the extra requirements for integration in the Netherlands. More information is now available. Rob V wrote the following about it.
'Labour market module'
On 1 January 2015, a new component will be added to the civic integration exam in the Netherlands, namely: 'Orientation on the Dutch labor market'. The exam component 'orientation to the Dutch labor market' will consist of two parts: a portfolio and a final interview. The portfolio consists of assignments in which the person integrating will orientate himself on the labor market and the results of which are entered by the person integrating on eight cards, the so-called 'Result cards'.
These are cards that deal with topics related to career choice, career opportunities, a realistic professional image, the Dutch work culture, skills and training that someone needs to work in the Netherlands. Using the portfolio, the person integrating makes a career plan that he will implement. If the portfolio has been approved, the person integrating can take the exam for the second part, which is the final interview in which the portfolio is discussed. Here you will find more information about the draft final objectives of the labor market module.
Source: www.inburgeren.nl/
More info: www.duo.nl/Images/
Patronizing
All integrators must therefore do this part, even if you already have a job or do not need help for other reasons about how to find work here. If you ask me patronizing at its best and without any customization. Not everyone needs this kind of thing: partners who already have a job, and those who have a partner and have lived here for (a lifetime) long. About 2/3 of family migrants have a native BP, I think, which does not say everything but is an indication that partner migration is not the outdated stereotype of immigrants/guest workers who bring a partner from the country of origin.
That still seems to be the starting point: “pathetic import brides” of either (descendants of) guest workers OR native men who bring over a “classic female” from the East (Russia, Thailand, Philippines, …) so that they “have no chance under their thumb” to be able to run the household. Too bad if you don't belong to that small group. It's a pity if you have completed a course, quickly find a job here in the Netherlands, if you come and live here for half a year because you and your partner no longer have to work or can work remotely.
Such a job module could simply be made available online so that people who need it can find it there. And those who need guidance can find a course, but don't force this on people who have their affairs in order and don't need it.
Just a sad policy that doesn't address real problems, unnecessarily patronizes normal immigrants and adds more bureaucracy and costs. Joost knows how that rhymes with liberal or social-democratic values, for example. I call it populism.
Rob V
We are dealing here with new rules to sabotage international relations. They already existed in the 1995s. In the nineties, Dick van der Lugt once produced a local musical, for which I wrote the script. That element played a role in that. We suddenly lost our choreographer because she couldn't get her partner to the Netherlands at that time. That's why she emigrated. She was able to get a job at a Dutch company in his country of origin. That was in XNUMX. In the past fifteen years, this sabotage legislation has become increasingly refined, but from the above piece we see that The Hague's creativity in this area knows no bounds. It shows how a limited view is increasingly taking hold of this country and gradually only the stupidity knows no boundaries.
The whole "integration" story is nothing but an attempt to force the "dumb import brides" from Berberland or the rice fields of Cambodia to get over a barrier of education. Out of complete political correctness, one sees that some import brides, with for example a Dr (PhD) or a step less with Master, really don't want to waste their time learning a local language or some local customs and customs !
Do you really believe that an academic, with a job at the international physics lab of Philips, or another international institute, is eager to learn Dutch? In case the stock filler at AH does not know enough English to tell you where article X or Y is located? Become wiser.
But yes, a civil servant / politician with sense?
A lot of grumbling, but it all depends on what the partner's future plans are with regard to settling in the Netherlands and therefore partly your own choice. Almost every country in the world has its requirements regarding settlement. We are no exception to that.
As for the portfolio of works, it is not new and has existed for a number of years, as well as the final interview, in which questions are asked about the contents of the portfolio. You could choose between 12 or 22 components for your portfolio, linked to 1 or 2 final interviews. You could also opt for a social / social module (coffee at the neighbor's, etc.). The only difference is that the portfolio work now applies to everyone.
It is becoming a more and more annoying country here, 17 years ago here with my Thai wife
married, followed the compulsory integration course, and passed with heels over the ditch, then started working, until a call came for a new course that was adapted at the time, this was
heavier and more difficult than the previous one, fine on the defense that my wife worked, sometimes 6 days a week, the answer came: it is also possible on Sunday, that is the reward for years of working 6 days a week and paying social security contributions, anyway started the Sunday course, where after a while the teacher
remarked that it was not feasible for my wife to complete this course satisfactorily.
the teacher would request a cancellation, partly because my wife had a positive attitude and always arrived on time to follow the lesson, she decided to request this from the municipality out of a sense of compassion, this turned out positive
honoured, on the basis of low learnability, however, it was announced that the chance of a Dutch passport would become more difficult, as she has now been living in the Netherlands since February 1998, this is no longer a problem, but we no longer appreciate a Dutch passport. We are leaving, bye children's garden.
This is the Netherlands at its best. People from Poland, Bulgaria etc. can work here. They do not know the language of the Netherlands, but they can work here in no time. It would be very strange if that is possible. But if someone here also guarantees a Thai, nothing can be done anymore. It has nothing to do with the language and knowledge of the Netherlands. Gr Tjerk,
It's not good……… They don't know where to look anymore.
Slowly you should feel ashamed of your ashes if you have to tell her that she, with her (admittedly) Thai university background, has to endure these "civilization vicissitudes".
I used to be SO proud to say “I am from the Netherlands”.
I would like to see the reaction if Thailand would also introduce a civic integration course for foreigners.
At least the Netherlands still offers a possibility for permanent residence, unlike Thailand………..
Dear Cornelius,
That is not true. Each year, a relatively small number of foreigners qualify for 'permanent residence'. I myself know two Dutch people here who have that and therefore no longer have to deal with visas and 90-day reports. The highest step is naturalization, so a Thai passport. My English colleague Jonathan has a British and a Thai passport.
To obtain a permanent residence permit, you must be able to understand and speak Thai.
Thailand therefore also has its own form of integration.
However, the reading and writing will shock you.
(Still?)
I think it is none of the Netherlands' business, even if it concerns a 'pathetic import bride'. The only requirement that can be made is that it concerns an actual marriage and not a marriage of convenience. Whether someone already masters the language and culture is irrelevant. Throughout the ages, the Netherlands has been a country where people came from far and wide. Amsterdam only became big when wealthy Antwerp merchants wanted to escape the tax burden of Philip II and sought refuge further north. At that time, the distance between Antwerp and Amsterdam was great. However, I can imagine that 'new' Dutch people must first have lived in the Netherlands for the necessary years before they are allowed to make use of certain social schemes (insofar as any of these are still available).
In my opinion, the Netherlands pursues a policy that only ensures that non-Dutch people with some spirit, knowledge and/or skills prefer to look for other places. In addition, I am not so sure that the talented well-Dutch people that the Netherlands should keep, will actually stay there. They have learned Dutch (whether or not correctly) at home and at school, but afterwards quite a few prefer to continue their studies elsewhere, never to return. They are also the ones (certainly now that the jobs in the Netherlands are not readily available) who move to other countries after their studies. They have that pit. During the discussion about the double passport last year, eeami came out very clearly. In particular, it was the group of highly educated Dutch people living and working in the US who did a great job of lobbying in The Hague on this issue. Every time I read something about it, it was about a Dutch American (two passports) who was married to an American. Perhaps they will return to the Netherlands one day, but I fear that this will only happen after their career. In terms of their working years, the Netherlands benefits little from their talents. Also think of the affair around Heleen Mees, who is said to have 'stalked' the top economist Buiter. Both work(ed?)and for American organizations in the US (New York University and Citi Bank respectively). Of course in my examples I'm talking about people who do something special and 'made it'. They are of interest. I don't think it's limited to that group though. Only there is less about the others in the newspaper. At least I know quite a few in Asia. The Netherlands should do everything it can to retain people with spirit, knowledge and/or skills or to encourage their arrival from outside. The Dutch language and culture will follow afterwards.
Moderator: Too many generalizations.
The wry thing is that because of all those stricter rules you not only hit a lot of decent citizens and make it either impossible or difficult and expensive, but that with strict rules the people who are inside will not leave soon. After all, you never know if you can return. So you better seriously consider naturalizing to make sure that you will not be faced with backward migration or integration legislation again in the future. The opposite: smooth visas and residence papers with, initially, almost complete exclusion from the social system, is not an option. You could leave it to the people themselves whether there is a need for a labor or language course, you should decide for yourself if you are not an economic or social burden to anyone else? If you have a referent (partner), that should be possible, right? Labor migration is more difficult, throwing it completely open can be bad for sectors (think of working on the land for next to nothing or in the greenhouse). But family migration does not have a depressing effect, certainly not in the numbers in which it happens (16-18 thousand imports per year, but a few also leave each year). Stick behind the door for those who go off the rails, let people sort it out themselves, as long as you are self-reliant.
What a sad mess in that NL, if it wasn't so sad it would make me laugh out loud.
My son and daughter both have Thai and Dutch nationality, have a Dutch passport and are registered at the city hall in The Hague. Can apply for and receive a Dutch birth certificate. Have never been to the Netherlands and, now it comes, neither speak a word of Dutch. What do they think they will do about it if those two ever go to the Netherlands? They don't need a visa.
When I am in Thailand I often get questions about the strict requirements of the Netherlands. It gives a lot of uncertainty to a Thai m / f who is madly in love with a Dutchman. If you then hear the stories of Sweden, then it is a piece of cake compared to the Netherlands. I also often get questions about Dutch men having to pay alimony to the ex and for children. Isn't that true? That's an excuse isn't it?
There is also alimony in Thailand.
You have to go to court for that.
But often people prefer to have nothing more to do with their ex-partner.
Usually because of abuse during the marriage.
Moreover, in better divorces, children are also often shared, or outsourced to grandparents.
Apparently, children also have a lot of influence on the decision of who they are brought up with.
As far as I understand – and that would be figures from 2012 – Sweden is the country with the most refusals for a tourist visa so far, with about 12,5%. Belgium comes next with 11,8%. If I remember correctly, France closes the list with only 1,5% refusals. So I'm talking about tourist visas.
Those figures (Schengen visa Thailand) are about right, I am writing a piece about it, in some countries the rejection percentage for 2013 is even below 1%. They can be found on the EU website. But those numbers are for type C visas. D visa (entry for establishment) is not covered. The figures quoted therefore say little about the immigration policy or difficulty (chance of admission), let alone about the legislation regarding integration. I wouldn't know how strict or flexible the Swedes are with regard to family migration and what rights, obligations and facilities one has to deal with as a Swede with a Thai partner. Sweden is generally known as very social, but whether this also applies to family migration and integration?
I also find it difficult to enter into a discussion with a Swede. I don't know what snags might pop up there. But they take it as something to do. I myself see too many snags in the Netherlands to give in to a foreign lover. I await Rob's further pieces on this with interest.
The Netherlands is just as pathetic as Belgium when it comes to migration. Maybe even a little sadder. I always stick to “everyone belongs to the world and the world belongs to everyone”. By which I mean that everyone should have the right to settle where he/she wants to. The fact that people do not automatically have access to social systems for which natives pay themselves blue, I think is normal again. But deliberately destroying mixed relationships goes very far in the privacy of those involved and, in my opinion, is even a mockery of human rights.
Moderator: Please do not chat.