Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 crashed on Thursday at 14.15 pm (Dutch time) about eighty kilometers from the Russian-Ukrainian border. According to the latest data, 193 Dutch people died.
The victims also include 44 Malaysians (including the crew), 27 Australians, 12 Indonesians, 9 British, 4 Germans, 4 Belgians, 3 Filipinos, a New Zealander and a Canadian.
Many Dutch people were on their way to their holiday destination
There were many Dutch people on the plane who were on their way to their holiday destination in the East, such as Indonesia or Australia. It is unknown whether there were Dutch people on the plane who were on their way to Thailand, but it is plausible.
I myself flew once with the MH 17 of Malaysia Airlines from Schiphol to Kuala Lumpur on Friday, February 22, 2013 at 12:00. From Kuala Lumpur I flew on with the MH 784 of Malaysia Airlines to Bangkok.
In short, a terrible disaster and my thoughts and condolences go out to the families and friends of the victims.
Update
According to news agencies, on the website of Bangkok Post not specified, the aircraft was shot down with a missile. Ukraine's security service says it intercepted telephone conversations in which pro-Russian militants spoke about the attack. The separatists deny the accusation. US officials say the missile was believed to be a Russian model commonly used in Eastern Europe. Air traffic is now being diverted around the area.
The aircraft was flying at an altitude of 33.000 feet when it was hit. It followed a route over eastern Ukraine, which Quantas Airways and many Asian airlines avoid. Flying is prohibited up to an altitude of 32.000 feet. Above that, the airspace is available for commercial flights.
It is suspected that the separatists have mistaken the aircraft for a Ukrainian military transport aircraft. It appears the missile was an SA-11 Gadfly, a radar-guided missile that can find targets up to 140 miles away and reach an altitude of 72.000 feet.
Many passengers were on their way to the twentieth international AIDS conference in Melbourne. Among them is a Dutch scientist and spokesperson for the World Health Organization WHO.
Watch a small excerpt from Prime Minister Rutte's press conference on Friday:
First of all I would like to wish all existing a lot of strength with this great loss of their loved one. What idiots are walking around on this earth today. There are simply no words for this. Let's hope that justice will prevail and the perpetrators will be well be punished.
Good luck to the relatives! It is too bad for words and I understand that only Quantas flew around the area and other airlines have not in recent months. According to the information I have read, this is the standard route to Asia and so I have escaped such an attack for the last 4 months. In my opinion, airlines should take better care of their passengers and take safe routes.
Shocking, for every person, especially for all relatives, I wish them all a lot of strength, a drama that affects many worldwide.
Then the question of blame, if I read correctly, Mr. Putin immediately says that the government of Ukraine is to blame, because it has launched an offensive against the separatists.
In other words, Putin is saying that the separatists are the ones who fired the missile.
Then this will have to be confirmed during further investigation, but I also read that the missile system in question has already been smuggled to Russia, I hope that researchers can bring clarity here and that those responsible for this drama get their deserved punishment.
That makes the suffering for the relatives and no less, once again dear people, I wish you all a lot of strength in coping with and processing this enormous loss and grief.
Nico B
first of all a lot of strength for the bereaved of this tragic event hope that these people will find the strength to continue and that tough measures will be taken now against russia once again for the bereaved a lot of strength!!
In principle, anyone who regularly goes to Thailand could have been on this plane. Then it all comes very close. Terrible drama for the relatives. They must know that the whole of the Netherlands sympathizes with them. This means that everyone involved in this is very strength and power.
Very sad, this actually means that you can no longer fly over Iraq, Iran, Turkey, etc. on the other Asia routes. Everywhere where terrorists have the upper hand, it is no longer safe even at 10.000 meters high.
There are no words for this.
Very slowly, a little more is becoming clear about the identity of the Dutch occupants of the crashed Malaysia Airlines flight MH17.
In various municipalities, names are circulating of people who were most likely on board.
The Amsterdam AIDS researcher Joep Lange was almost certainly on board, along with a number of colleagues. They were on their way to a conference in Australia.
The mayor of Naarden has confirmed that a mother and her three young children were on the plane that crashed. "It's a nightmare," said Mayor Joyce Sylvester.
The municipality of Cuijk announces that a family of four from the municipality was probably on board. Mayor Wim Hillenaar writes: “A family of four, two of whom are valued employees of the municipality, were also on board the aircraft. The news is hard to comprehend and fills us, the municipal council and all colleagues, with great sadness. We wish all relatives, friends and other loved ones of this family a lot of strength in coping with the loss.”
In Nekant, flags hang at half-mast. The small village mourns the loss of the Wals family. Father, mother and their four children were on Thursday in the crashed plane. A bug, a flower, a card and a candle at the front door of their home silently confirm the sad news. The youngest in the family was in primary school. The girl's classmates are taken care of at school to be together.
Volendam mourns the death of two residents. Mayor Willem van Beek confirms the loss on Twitter. He writes: “I have radio silence for a while (attention to family and colleagues). Wishing you lots of strength.”
There is also mourning in Woerden. Three students from Minkema College were on board MH17. Two of them would possibly be in the company of their grandparents. Minkema College writes on Facebook: “Parents have confirmed to us that three of our students were on board flight MH17. It concerns Robert-Jan and Frederique van Zijtveld (5 and 6 vwo) and Robin Hemelrijk (4 havo). It is with great sadness that we have received this message.”
More than 5000 messages have already been received on the condolance.nl website in which people express their condolences to the relatives of the victims of the plane crash with flight MH17.
The register is by far the best signed register on the website this year. The register with the most responses is for André Hazes, who passed away in 2004. Then 58.000 people expressed their condolences.
Source: NOS
I was just watching TV with Ukrainian citizens who lay flowers en masse at the Dutch embassy. I had tears in my eyes. It has now become known that 173 Dutch people were among the victims. But no matter how many Dutch people are there, it is of course really terrible for all relatives. It's about time that real measures were taken and not that half-baked stuff from our softies in government.
The flight appeared to have been steered off course. Why is my question? Russia is immediately blamed, but that can also be propaganda.
http://rt.com/news/173784-ukraine-plane-malaysian-russia/
From what I read elsewhere (Joop.nl), several flights were diverted due to thunderstorms. For example, a Singapore Airlines flight would have flown in front of the aircraft and a KLM flight behind it (?). So it could just as well have been another airliner that flew over. That could explain that the idiots who shot at the plane were not really prepared for there being plenty of civil air traffic: that was not the case in the period before. Although it remains idiotic to shoot at an air target without proper verification if it is already permitted to shoot at military aircraft. The question also remains whether the anti-aircraft defense was just as well within the range of the more common route and what the operators' reasons were for setting up (location) and controlling (target determination) the anti-aircraft system.
Are those stories true? No idea, that will have to wait until the matter is thoroughly investigated. The reports sound plausible, but it is really impossible to say whether they are the truth or rumors. So let's wait and see before we identify perpetrators (or punish them).
I have the telephone conversations by now (if any of it is true and I can believe the translation)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnuHxAR01Jo
Don't forget that anything that doesn't support the puppet regime there must automatically be rebel and Russian...
Here's some more info:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-17/was-flight-mh-17-diverted-over-restricted-airspace
that story on youtube is bullshit! stuck and no reference of the truth. it has been used before in another missile attack….. also read the comments under the video so I don't have to mention all the specifications. or better don't watch it then you don't have to do anything….
Deeply sad this tragedy, we all think with compassion of those who have lost a loved one. 🙁
The question of guilt will have to be investigated further, if the assumptions that are making the rounds are correct, the idiots who shot at the plane are of course responsible, but indirectly many more parties. It is of course easy to talk in hindsight: airlines should not have flown there (did you again have angry citizens because of higher ticket prices due to months of detours?), air traffic control should have closed the airspace (without or taking into account sources that an advanced surface to air antiaircraft system had been captured by insurgents in late June).
It could just as well have been just about any other aircraft flying from Europe to Asia. This is an extra serious tragedy for Malaysia Airlines, although from a sober perspective they cannot be blamed. They, like virtually all other companies and authorities, assumed that this important traffic route was sufficiently safe (the average separatists did not have access to advanced systems as far as was known) and the anti-aircraft defenses with (shoulder-worn systems) were always on. aimed at military targets. It is also painful that people are driven crazy, in an ideal world you would not have to fight, then all people would have self-determination and with a sustainable, large-scale wish, everyone should be able to claim autonomy. Russia is being hypocritical in this regard: pointing out that the Ukraine can/must give the border region independence, but not the other way around, as do those who want to break away from Russia. All that fight is of no use to the victims and surviving relatives, for it was a tragedy: they were in the wrong place at the wrong time... 🙁
according to CNN, the course has been changed to the north due to bad weather on the route there.
What annoys me immensely when seeing the images is that the locals on the spot show passports of the victims, which they can only have taken from pockets or suitcases.
Also empty suitcases where the stuff is out, that mentality is characteristic of that people who have no respect for the victims.
– Some of the passports may have been scattered throughout the disaster area. The impact causes everything to fly around, break into pieces, suitcases fly open. The passports do not have to have all been taken from people's pockets or bags.
– It is clear that people were robbing, yesterday you heard on the NOS that there were people looting as well as people trying to assist with rescue work (extinguishing the fire, collecting evidence, including passports). So not everyone who handed in papers has to be a thief.
– Unfortunately, you encounter looters everywhere, but some of the people have to move on, they may attract people who initially had no intention of doing so (but were initially helping, for example): “look at them stealing, soon they will have they have everything and I have nothing.” You also see this happen in other disasters. Even if it's only a handful of people who do that. I would therefore not direct your justified annoyance at "those people" but at the individual disrespectful scum who commit those outrages. Or do you think that during disasters in the Netherlands, for example, there are no thieves around?
Just read that there was also a couple on the flight who operated the well-known luxurious restaurant "Asian Glories" in Rotterdam..
All terrible anyway..
Source:
http://www.gva.be/cnt/dmf20140718_01183706/vrienden-van-geert-hoste-en-roger-van-damme-kwamen-om-bij-vliegtuigcrash
I know the couple who own Asian Glories… ran it?
It is a disgrace to the Russian separatists and all the hypocritical Russian government that this happened, separatists conquer antiaircraft, they can shoot with them but they do not see the difference between military and civilian aircraft, what a shame that incompetent Russian world,, they would be very heavy must be punished in this world of this time.
I am very sad that this has yet to happen after so many examples of War,
incompetent people in the wrong place.
My condolences to all the people who have lost family in this insane act.
Mind you, that the separatists fired at what was almost certainly surface to air antiaircraft is a (very plausible) assumption. For example, it cannot yet be ruled out that the Ukrainian armed forces themselves accidentally shot at the device. That is less obvious, you can assume that the army has connected their installations to a currently fed database with flight traffic data and not stand alone ("Look, there's a plane, shoot!"). Stand alone one should know to be extra careful, the equipment cannot be operated by untrained personnel (according to defense experts a guest at the NOS, Dick Berlin?) so whoever fired will at least have known the official protocols as part of his or her training.
It is not yet possible to say who exactly is to blame and where and how much. You also read that the airspace there was already closed when these (and other?) planes flew over it to avoid a thunderstorm on the regular route. Then traffic control, among others, would also share the blame for such a major error. Most of the blood is on the hands of those who shot or ordered it. Now we wait to see whether those were indeed the separatists.
Hello.
@ Rob.
Very plausible explanation, but I read today that the airspace was closed up to 32000 feet, and that above that free air traffic was allowed (Het Laatste Nieuws B). The plane, like most, was flying at 33000 feet.
It is to be hoped that the culprits will be found and appropriate action will be taken.
But that is little consolation for the bereaved.
Best regards. Rudy.
@ Rudy Van Goethem Have you read the posting because the information about the flight altitude is in the posting. Why the reference to Het Laatste Nieuws B?
Hello.
@ Dick.
Sorry Dick, I overlooked it for a moment, I did read the posting, I read every posting every day, but I was busy reading all the responses and while switching to the site of Het Laatste Nieuws B, my personal newspaper… will no more happen.
Best regards. Rudy.
Moderator: No English comments please.
Provided strength for all relatives to be able to bear this horrible fate!
Detours seem to be not unusual for many airlines due to cost savings, but in the meantime we continue to look diligently for the cheapest possible ticket.
On the other hand, it is not easy for the airlines to find the shortest possible flight route to Southeast Asia that is completely 'clean' as standard, just take the last stretch over India with its various areas where agitation occurs frequently.
On the other hand (without wanting to downplay this air disaster), we have all honestly never really thought about the fact that on that long flight in that direction that we all regularly use, we fly over areas where it is uneasy. or in other words, by such an attack (most likely) in the way it could happen to us.
Hello.
First of all my deepest condolences to all the relatives of the victims, their suffering must be enormous.
I told my girlfriend earlier that I have also flown that route several times, and then all kinds of strange thoughts haunt your head, along the lines of: it could also have been the plane on which I was a passenger…
I remember when we flew over India, it was night, and I saw all those lights below, and I saw on the TV screen: altitude 33000 feet, that's 10 km, I thought, that's a long way down... I think everyone has those thoughts sometimes.
We can't imagine the agony of those people, and that's a good thing, but this will leave many passengers with a bitter aftertaste.
I also heard those conversations, and in them you clearly hear that they had no business in “their” airspace, and if they did, that they probably had spies on board, according to various news agencies. Complete madness, there were several babies on board!
In the meantime I have read that most airlines, including Thai Airways, have shifted their flight schedule.
Once again, my deepest condolences to all of the victims' families and friends… you came from heaven, and you have returned… rest in peace…
Kind regards… Rudy.
The number 7 is not a lucky number. I just tipped all airlines.
When boarding, also display name and nationality on boarding card. Now there are 4 names known but no nationality. RIP for all. Wishing relatives a lot of strength.
RIP. Sad.
As far as passports are concerned, joint check-in still occurs for group travel. So it is possible that they were in the hand luggage of a tour guide. Separating passport and remains is the dumbest thing you can do.
I too was shocked to hear the news this morning from my Thai spouse.
First of all my condolences to the family and friends.
But now the question arises again could this have been prevented .
This morning I already read in some newspapers online.
That the American government had long prohibited American airlines from flying too close to this war zone.
Also that's how I read, our own KLM flew another longer route to stay outside this area.
That's why I'm afraid that it's about the old song again.
The shortest route saves time and fuel , and the route is still declared safe .
War zones and surrounding areas are always risk areas.
And that proved itself once again today .
But that doesn't change the fact that this should never have happened.
RIP to all victims.
Jan Beute.
RIP to the victims,193 Dutch people. Rutte, declare war on the Ukraine and wipe them off the map.
If Rutte wanted to do that at all, he would have to declare war on Putin's Russia because it was almost certainly Russian separatists or supporters who believe that Ukraine belongs to Russia.
Deeply sad that completely innocent people have unwittingly become victims of a struggle in which they were neither a part nor a part, many of them most likely did not even know where Ukraine was or had never even heard of it.
This morning I watched an excellent special report on the disaster on Al Jahzeera TV. Summarizing the opinion of the political and military experts at the moment:
1. Shooting at the civil aircraft was a catastrophic mistake and not intentional;
2. The missile came from the area held by the separatists who want to join Russia;
3. The missile installation most likely originated in Crimea and was owned by Ukraine a few months ago, before Crimea was taken by Russia (probably the Ukrainian flag was still on the missile to create confusion);
4. How the missile installation came into the hands of the separatists is unclear (knowingly or stolen or bought privately)
5. The aircraft was probably mistaken for a Ukrainian transport aircraft;
6. The separatists lacked the flight data technology so they could not determine with certainty what kind of plane it was.
In that sense, this disaster is of great importance for aviation because - if the above is correct - any flight over areas of political unrest where there are armed conflicts (think of Iran, Israel, Afghanistan) could be a potential target, intentionally or unintentionally.
Look at that people have something to do! Thanks for the info 🙂
People have no idea what exactly is going on in Ukraine (this only half comes across on the news and in the papers next to a few lies).
I hope there will be a piece of consciousness when we fly high over a country from the far from my bed "show". The suffering is there every day, also in many other countries.
I would like to write something about all this, and the danger to Thailand and the rest of our beautiful earth.
The chance that the downing of a civilian aircraft was a mistake is very small!
The type of surface-to-air missile that was probably used works with a double radar system, 1 targeting and 1 guiding, 1 of those systems must have picked up the transponder signal that each civilian aircraft transmits for identification.
As a former Air Force soldier, I've worked with surface-to-air missiles for altitudes above 30.000 feet, and even then we had radar systems that could clearly distinguish civilian aircraft from non-civil aircraft.
It seems more like that the plane was deliberately shot down to get international attention for the conflict between Ukraine and Russia.
The central banks can only survive on more war. One must also be able to blame if the economy suddenly does not go so well again (there is no recovery). All this now comes very close to and before us with 193 Dutch who were murdered.
It is 99% certainly not a mistake, I agree, Why only 1 flight flies more northerly with bad weather… Or I don't have the correct information yet.
In addition to my post, a question to Leo!
A civilian aircraft receives a message to fly differently, and such a message comes from the country over which it is flying? Within the borders of Ukraine correct?
If that is a YES then you will get to your last issue very quickly. I just listened to Rutte and I see Bush with 911 “we will bring them to justice or justice to them”.
I therefore take a moment to reflect on the countries in the MO that we did NOT help and wonder how free we are now?
Things don't just happen. Divide and conquer…
Sadness, impotence and anger is what prevails, wishing all relatives, friends and colleagues a lot of strength in processing this immense loss.
The days after this horrible event, the victims get a face that makes you realize even more what a horrible disaster has taken place.
Entire families in Brabant two families with small children from the same street, this is all so close.
See also the video of the owner of the Asian Glories restaurant, Jenny Loh and her husband, chef Shun Po Fan who died in the crash of flight MH17, the Asian Glories restaurant is a culinary concept in Rotterdam.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZjkbweMgIA
RIP Popo Fan and Jenny Loh
A plane crash,..so suddenly,...193 Dutch people,...in and in sad, and in thoughts with the relatives.
It is so suddenly,…close, 193 Dutch of the 298 victims,….
We don't know how or what,… we book a flight and have plans about what we do and don't do at our destination. Eyewitnesses (Ukrainians) are shocked, stunned and appalled, people fell from the sky like duffel bags, an event that you can never remove from your retina.
Listened to the firm words of our Prime Minister,.. even if the bottom stone has to come up,
the guilty will be brought to justice, and my thoughts go out to the deceased of Srebrenica, 300 Muslims,… The Netherlands has been found guilty, the bottom stone has emerged after 19 years, but what about the other 7.700 dead.
We don't know how or what,… it's so sudden,… maybe that's our providence, and then it doesn't matter what Nationality or Religion you have
PS The only comment that Niki Lauda (co-owner with Lufthansa and Austrian Airlines of Lauda Air) wanted to give,… An airline that thinks about and cares for its passengers does not fly over a disaster area. END
Last night in Nieuwsuur, among other things, an interview with someone from Eurocontrol, the organization responsible for air traffic control over Europe. In that interview it was stated that until this event, more than 400 aircraft flew the relevant route over the area every day. This number, Eurocontrol stated, was barely lower than before the outbreak of the disturbances in eastern Ukraine.
By the way, I have passed through Afghanistan many times to and from Southeast Asia and I sometimes wondered how safe it was. The Taliban also had/has heavy weapons - mostly captured from the Russians - such as rockets with which helicopters were taken out of the sky, among other things.