'Dutch pensioners hit hardest by crisis'
Pensioners in Thailand regularly complain about their disposable income. Is that right? According to research, yes. During the crisis, pensioners suffered six times more than working people. In the period 2008-2013, the purchasing power of working people decreased by 1,1 percent, while pensioners had 6 percent less to spend.
These are the conclusions of research institute ITS (Radboud University Nijmegen) and SEO (affiliated with the University of Amsterdam), commissioned by the ANBO senior citizens' union. Although the research focuses on purchasing power in the Netherlands, we can extend that line to Thailand because inflation has also increased prices there.
Not only pensioners are affected, the middle incomes have also been hit hard in their disposable income: from minus 4,7 percent to even minus 12,8 percent for incomes above 50.000 euros.
The least pain is felt by the lowest incomes (minus 1,9 percent), because the AOW was adjusted to wage and price developments in the period in question.
Source: NU.nl
Are you retired and have you significantly deteriorated in recent years? Is it true that you had 6% less to spend? Then respond.
And there is the depreciation of the Euro on top of that. In recent weeks, the Euro has slowly recovered, but yesterday it suddenly fell 1,6% against the USD.
At Bangkok bank the rate is now 37,2 bht.
Moderator: We will post your question as a reader's question tomorrow.
Complaining, that's what we're good at.
With an AOW (and possibly supplementary pension) it is, I think, fine to endure in Thailand. Prices are also rising there. But are still lower than in the Netherlands. Depending on your spending pattern, of course. If you want to go out every day and drink beer and panache in the various catering establishments, you will (just like in the Netherlands) quickly run out of resources.
Living somewhere inland (nice) and an occasional trip to the "civilized" world will cost considerably less.
Pensioners who moved in 2008/2009 and counted on a stable exchange rate of the Euro against the Thai Baht around the then prevailing rate (almost 50 Thb for 1 euro) conveniently forget that when the euro was introduced the exchange rate was around 35 Thb for 1 euros lag. Linked to the dollar, this is the rate that is now (almost) being achieved again.
So it depends entirely on the personal situation and expected standard whether the complainers really have reason to complain.
it is impossible to live in Thailand with only a state pension. You simply will not get a visa.
The fact that the AOW was “adjusted to wage and price developments” in the period 2008-2013 certainly does not mean that the least pain has been suffered. It is difficult to speak of adaptation. The period mentioned is that of the global banking crisis and of our own continental euro crisis. Everyone has surrendered. If you take the amounts that are paid out for the AOW, you see that they do not concern amounts such as those for the upper middle and higher incomes, who have lost up to 12,8%.
As of January 2008, a married AOW (which most pensioners in TH receive because of their cohabiting relationship with a TH woman) amounted to € 674 (excluding trade money).
In January 2013 this was € 722 (excl. trade money, excl. purchasing power support), and
as of July 2015, the AOW for married couples (excl. professional money and excl. income support) is € 742.
All amounts gross!
From January 2008 to January 2013 this is an increase of 7% compared to 2008.
July 2015 compared to January 2013 has an increase of 2,77%.
(Calculate those of 2014 yourself.)
This seems neat in a relative sense, absolutely nothing at all. The annual growth from 2008 is about EUR 10 per month gross.
The greatest pain lies in and has been suffered by the significantly lagging, if not discontinued, annual indexation of (company) pension amounts. These are constantly adjusted downwards, and it is strange that the ANBO does not put more emphasis on this: pensioners have already lost 2008% in the period 2013-6, even though the AOW had a relative increase, which meant that in compare the lowest incomes only 1,9%.
In addition to the AOW, I have a good ABP pension, with 42 years for pension counting with the government. Unfortunately, its real value is slowly being 'eaten away' because it is not adjusted to inflation, etc. and the cost of living is getting more and more expensive. In addition, tax measures have also had a negative impact on the amount that ultimately remains net. Fortunately, I still have some room for it to get stuck, but I can well imagine that if you have to get by on only AOW or on AOW with a small supplementary pension, you will certainly experience pain and have to make do with reduced purchasing power. The indexation of the state pension – however welcome – is also hardly helping.
The people who are sitting abroad, in this case Thailand, and complaining because, for example, the Baht is now so “expensive”, they should simply pack their bags and return to their homeland as a matter of urgency. They have chosen to enjoy the sun, the temperature, the cheap life and cheap sex there. Or am I not allowed to say the latter? Things have not gotten any better for the pensioners who have simply stayed in the Netherlands. So please complain
Tell me Keesje, where should I go as an 80-year-old state pensioner with a 30-year marriage to a Thai in your lovely country? Can I still get on a plane with my Thai wife today? With my adult son and daughter and grandchild in tow? After living in Thailand for more than 40 years? Will I get a house right away? I came to live here for my work as a seafarer on Scandinavian ships because in the Netherlands you were too expensive and too old at the age of 30 back then. Not for the sun and cheap sex. You should be ashamed to speak that way about your older compatriots. Stand in the corner.
and now with the new tax reform proposal no benefit for state pensioners only for working people with a maximum of 4%, long live the VVD in government
pensioners;
The 2013 law cost the elderly 6 percent.
I am surprised that so little attention has been paid to the net pension cut of 6 percent in January 2013. This cut was the result of a so-called budget-neutral simplification of the pay slip.
This clumsily introduced Uniform Wage Concept Act has been compensated for everyone, except pre-retirees because there would be no money for this group. When the law was drafted, income effects of plus or minus 1,5 percent were considered acceptable. At 6 percent, this limit was exceeded by a factor of 4. With 6.3 PMT discount now for me 12.3% total.
“Although the research focuses on purchasing power in the Netherlands, we can extend that line to Thailand because prices there have also risen due to inflation.” I think this is comparing apples to oranges. Purchasing power in the Netherlands, for example, is determined by government measures and the composition of the basket of products and services of Statistics Netherlands. You can only substantiate that claim if you first level out the basics: in Thailand, too, you would have to use the same basket of products and services (or their substitutes) that are weighted to determine the increase or decrease in purchasing power and then eliminate the exchange rate differences.
By converting social security contributions into tax and abolishing all tax credits, it will be considerably more difficult for people with old age pensions to still be able to live in Thailand.
You are only safe from the Dutch government if you have your own money.
Well, I have gone through all the pluses and minuses and have come to the conclusion that the latest increase of the AOW with 01 euros per month as of 08-2015-2 is a huge boost for the average expats, thanks gentlemen and ladies of the cabinet.
The government has had all kinds of reports drawn up showing that the elderly, over 65, are relatively rich. The fact that the supposed wealth of this group is often in the excess value of their own home, which they cannot live on, does not bother the government. Yes, many also have a (nice) pension, but that is in fact a subordinated salary, which they have saved for for years. Despite the fact that it has always been assumed that a pension with a stable value has been more or less taken for granted, in recent years most people's pensions have not been adjusted to inflation and have sometimes even been cut. According to the largest pension funds, including ABP, pensions will not be able to be adjusted due to tax laws in the next 10 years. The Wage Definition Act has already been mentioned and the Senior Citizens' Discount, which now applies to 2.8 million taxpayers, will also be reduced from 2016 (by € 2016 for 83, so the inflation correction of the AOW will almost be canceled out). That elderly people, both in Nld. if there has been/continue to decline in terms of disposable income in Thailand, it is crystal clear. That is not a complaint but simply an observation! Just like the sharply increased health insurance premiums for the elderly in Thailand. The fact that retirees find it more difficult in Thailand is not only due to the Euro/Bath ratio. In Nld. After the lean years, the government now wants to give workers a tax advantage and also increase the low VAT rate, which also includes medicines, to 21%, for which workers are also compensated. The elderly are left out and are therefore twice as likely to go on strike or take work breaks.
Of course the government is right when they state that the over-65s are relatively wealthy.
Joop van den Ende alone is good for 1,6 billion euros.
If you, as a government, average that out over all people over 65, every person over 65 already has a nice savings in the bank.
That's how you do it with statistics.
The last tax measure mainly affects people who have little income.
The lowest tax bracket has been increased.
There are people who just write what the Euro was worth when the guilder changed to the Euro. Exchange rate guilder Approximately 18 Bht. Euro 2.20371 guilders. To remain the same, the rate of the Bht would have to be 39.67. Many would be very happy with that.
Cor van Kampen.
weak pathetic and nauseated that is the socialist ideal.
Pensionados in Thailand are often vital and thanks to the Thai menu and their (younger) wife, they last years longer without dozens of home helpers, wyj sisters, physiotherapists, etc.
In addition, as a rich country, the Netherlands should be open to refugees who will return in due course. ahead of the housing market,
in short, doing good is rewarded.
It surprises me again and again that Dutch pensioners complain.
They have experienced the good times in the Netherlands, if they had their own house this has gone upside down an average of 4 times. Furthermore, they were usually able to stop their work earlier (early retirement, pre-pension, easy access to the WAO)
In the Netherlands they are also entitled to many discounts such as public transport.
MVG
Dave
I have been given 2 more years of extra work and will not be able to enjoy my pension for the time being. So don't whine and shoulders underneath.
Agree with some of the comments above. Retirees in Thailand should not complain, they are often better off than those who stayed behind in the Netherlands. Far too often I read about the villas with pools they own, the 4×4, the staff they employ, hanging out in the pub every day and scoring a chick. Don't come up with the excuse that you worked hard for it because you could enjoy a beautiful life with pre-pension or a nice commutation arrangement. Enjoy it! In addition, the workload has increased enormously and in the 70s you could buy a house for next to nothing, for which today a working couple already has problems paying the mortgage costs. Enjoy it and don't complain. I started my first job at the age of 19, continued to study but can now work until I am 67. There are already graduates who work for free in an overburdened labor market where the last jobs are also stolen by cheaper Eastern Europeans. I hear many pensioners complain about their pension being cut short, but these complaining pensioners must realize that they still have a pension. With the call for more flexible employees who have to hop from job to job because their contract ends overnight, these employees will hardly be able to build up a pension for the future. What to think of the ever-increasing number of self-employed people, such as postal deliverers at TNT, for example, who cannot even insure against health costs, let alone a pension, so that they end up at home with the first accident without any source of income? . So pensioners please don't complain so much, enjoy the beautiful life you now have in your villa, with 4×4, enjoy the fact that you have staff who clean your house (my 85-year-old mother is losing her domestic help due to the cutbacks and now has to clean her house herself), enjoy hanging out in the bar every day and the fact that a few times a week you get your manly vibes with a woman who could have been your granddaughter. Many working men, including yours truly, envy you because I know for myself that given the current economic climate, and increasing economic uncertainty, I will never be able to live in Thailand in a way that you can. Enjoy it, enjoy the beautiful weather every day, I'll be honest, I envy you, because I think you will be one of the last with such a mostly neo-colonial lifestyle. And oh well, if things are so bad in Thailand, then return to the Netherlands I would say.
Dear Cú Chulainn, I am one of those types who, through hard work (several years more than 48 hours a week, irregular working hours, often away from home) is now able to live luxuriously in TH. Although I have built a villa, I do not have a swimming pool. Well, an SUV. I don't hang out in the pub (didn't do this in NL either), and I don't score chicks. I do not make the excuse that I have been able to realize home and comfort through hard work, but the fact is that I have done that hard work. As a result, I was also able to take pre-pension, but without a commutation scheme. By the way, my first job was when I was 16.
Don't complain that you can work until the age of 67. You don't have to do anything. I took pre-retirement at age 62. You can too, but then settle for less pension benefit. I did too. Also, make sure you have a spare. For example in the form of a mortgage-free house, savings plans, investments, and so on. Options galore, and when devising and preparing an emigration wish to be realized amply according to one's own funds. But be proactive, have initiative and act creatively. Floating around in envy usually doesn't hold a course.
As for your example of the contemporary NL self-employed person, or your mother of 85 years old: it all depends on how you stand and how you look at it. My daughter, as a single mother of 2 young children, started a B&B a few years ago. Runs fine now. A network has been started with other freelancers from the area for mutual support and support, also with local governments and agencies, precisely to deal with problems such as you mentioned.
When my parents became old and infirm, we children made sure that they did not have to go to a home, and we paid for extra help and care. Even when one of them both died earlier, and the other needed even more care. Problems often turn out to be challenges.
Finally: I do not understand your lamentation, and you are not even retired yet. Each person belongs to his own generation, has his own era and has his own dynamics. I belong to the generation that has fully experienced the 50s and the flower power of the 2s. Not everyone was given to study then. Don't think that the current time has its crisis: there were already those in the second half of the last century, and there were major cutbacks in the 80s. Nothing new under the sun. The current time, on the other hand, has a completely different rhythm, due to the internet, among other things, and globalization. Nevertheless, you cannot say that we had it better or worse in our time. It was different. The present time has other, albeit hardly any, many more possibilities. Our time was much more limited. I would say: see the current time in the context in which it occurs, don't complain and tackle opportunities and risks. Work hard and you will see that in time you will see the benefits and fruits of it. But don't give up and don't feel overwhelmed. And well, if you can't go to TH, just stay in NL, I'd say. Courage!
@Soi I have for you a dialogue from a classic film with Humphrey Bogart and Walter Huston: “Anyone who wants to work and does his best will definitely find a job. However, you should not go to the man who tells you this, because he has no job to offer and does not know anyone who has a vacancy. This is precisely why he gives you such magnanimous advice, out of brotherly love, and to show how little he knows about the world.” Dear Soi, from your answer I gather that you have no idea what is happening. is currently taking place in Europe but also in the Netherlands. This morning I heard the latest forecasts about increasing gaps between higher and lower educated people, between higher and lower incomes, increasing unemployment. More and more people are uninsured, thousands of people have committed suicide in Southern Europe and your answer is be creative, start a B&B or campsite? Hard work and hard work is your credo, while 40% of the unemployed in the Netherlands are over 50 years old and they hardly have any prospects left while the government is talking about phasing out benefits. I have no home, I am also away from home for five days before I I see my family on weekends and I rent an apartment on the third floor. I have been working for 48 years now, but I know that there will be more in an increasingly crumbling welfare state that has been fought hard for over the past 100 years. So I don't have a spare home either. Home ownership is mainly found among your generation, the baby boom generation which, you can of course deny it, had the best economic opportunities, other generations will never have that, so please accuse the current generations of lacking will and strength! The globalization that you so encourage is precisely the cause of the current problems, including unemployment! Really, you have no idea what is going on in Europe! I stand by it, I don't begrudge you anything, but please complain less, because you can have a wonderful life there.