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Home » News from Thailand » Immigration not sensitive to complaints about TM30
Immigration not sensitive to complaints about TM30
The Thai Immigration Bureau does not care about the criticism of the TM30 procedure. Landlords are required to complete the form for tenants staying longer than 24 hours at a place other than their permanent address and return it within 24 hours. Those who fail to do so risk a fine of 800 to 2.000 baht.
The purpose of the procedure, which is set out in the Immigration Act of 1979, is to track down criminals. The head of the Sompong Chingduang immigration office acknowledges that there are problems because landlords and landlords are often unaware of the rules. In addition, there are many private homeowners who ignore the procedure.
Nevertheless, Sompong emphasizes that the TM30 procedure will continue to be applied now and in the future.
Source: Bangkok Post
Then they have understood little of it: the complaint was not so much about landlords and landlords who do not know about the TM30 procedure, nor about the fact that many Thai people do not care much about the procedure. That is a matter of informing, educating and enforcing. Although not Thai realities. The factual and primary issue was that if you have your own home with your partner as a long-term resident, for example, and you are away for a weekend, your partner must follow the TM30 procedure when you return. Suppose you are regularly out of town throughout the year for here and there family visits, with Songkran to CHM and New Year's Eve in BKK, and a city trip to Seoul, etc.: your partner keeps going, and why? In any case, you already report every 90 days. How easy is the question from the IDE to you: have you been away in the past few months and if so, where to? In addition: if you go to one of the neighboring countries for a city trip, you need a re-entry. This will also be stamped by Immigration upon your return.
If it's already difficult for your partner, it's just as good for a possible landlord. Much ado about nothing.
Anyway: let's wait and see what the answer is from, among others, the USA initiators, and from the many aliens in TH. Not to forget: our own ambassador has promised to discuss the matter with colleagues.
And maybe a year less across the country: if aliens stay at home more because of those TM30 situations and participate less in local tourism, then the Immigration will scratch its head more often. I hope!
Nevertheless: I will continue to do what I already did: I assume that hotels, guesthouses and AirBnb providers report me, and I will leave it at that. Otherwise just less TH.
Don't understand how intelligent people assume that they can track down criminals with this. Ridiculous.
“All foreigners who stay in the country for more than 90 days”… Well, that says enough, certainly… they just want to leave. Only tourists who use up their holiday budget in a short time. They don't want farangs who have built a family life here, built a house, let children study, learn other languages and let the whole family enjoy it. No problem: sold the house, shut down the business… soon a rental address and simply leave the country again… when it gets too hot. The debt burden of Thai households (80% struggling with debts to pay off) will not improve. The army will increase its annual budget by 7% as usual, the third submarine of 12,5 billion will come to watch the fish in the shallow waters…The politicians will never learn to speak English and Thailand will shut down if a lotus flower. Thai cannot continue to run it like this…but they know better and better. TM 30 vicissitudes and so many other unnecessary measures will drive the good benefactors out of the country…Amazing…
I suppose these laws have been around for a very long time.
The cry that they want to bully foreigners away is based on nothing, and is nothing more than parroting each other without any evidence.
If Thailand wants to get rid of foreigners in Thailand, it can simply double the financial demands.
The good benefactors without money are then forced to leave.
The well-behaved benefactors with money will probably not lose sleep over that increase.
Dear Ruud,
I see you want to justify this measure.
But then you also have to be consistent in this.
Why does this Thai government not apply the ancient law regarding prostitution in Thailand.
Suppose Thailand also wants to burn its hands on that, they must also take measures for that.
Then you will really laugh.
All hotels in Pattaya and Phuket may close immediately.
Ditto for all bars.
All Isan workers can rely on SSO.
All corrupt officials can also follow the path to the SSO.
When foreigners leave the country, most hardware stores can also close their doors. And their employees also follow the path to SSO.
And what will happen to the beer breweries? Yes, you guessed it.
If the bankrupt Isaners no longer have money to pay off their motorbikes? Will the pickpockets support these people?
I could cite many more examples.
Chander
In itself, that message is not so bad, IF it is all properly arranged.
Report digitally, via smartphone, etc. and the same rules on every IMM.
But yes, TIT
Online is not working properly so I had to visit immigration. Travel a lot and then wait a long time and then be put on a stool in a row and then tap 800 baht.
Can't believe if I spend a night outside of Bangkok I'll have to do this again.
I have my own condo so I don't have a landlord so I have to arrange this myself.
And if you wouldn't do it Jan, what are the chances that if you spend a night outside your domicile, all the alarm bells will ring at the Immi.
And do they really think at the Immi that criminals will register properly in a hotel or guesthouse.
Jan Beute.
In BKK it is also allowed by post.
Just as easy as online.
Required copies and a return envelope and a week later the slip is back in theory.
Last time it was a month, but I have a receipt with date from the post office.
Ronny has often written a very clear piece about this with address and everything
They are civil servants, be it the military or the police. Both parties have absolutely no idea how the economy works and are only interested in their own successes.
And the Immigration chief also doesn't understand how it really works. It has been said so many times, no criminal will report to Immigration for 90 days or if you visit another province. "WE WANT TO TRACK THE CRIMINALS" is said by the head of Immigration. Bullshit, and no evidence has yet been provided that the 90-day notice or when you visit, or when you renew your annual extension, someone was arrested. Only because they check on the street, in bars or other places, success was achieved.
I repeat, all long-term foreigners who do their 90 days and have their RETIREMENT PERMIT done once a year have not been arrested. I'd like to hear the real story behind this at least not tracking down offenders.
The fact that people want to keep track of this TM30 procedure is, apart from my doubts whether they can actually track down a criminal faster, at most partially understandable, if it really worked as it is clearly stated on the form in two languages.
A Local Police who, given the clear text on the TM30 form, should be able to calmly send you to an Immigration Office, which is often miles away from your place of residence, because they have never heard of this legal obligation.
So it is not only the ignorance and ignorance of landlords and landlords, so the head of immigration Sompong Chingduang likes to believe, it is also the refusal or ignorance of many Local Police officers and the treatment methods of the various Immigration Offices that of this national law often cook their own soup.
That these differences or ignorance with an already old law from 1979, even with those authorities that should be able to handle this TM30 report, should also give the head of the Immigration Sompong Chingduang something to think about.
Instead of talking about the ignorance and ignoring of landlords and landlords, he should urgently ensure that for the proper functioning of this legislation, both the local Police and the various immigrations nationwide fulfilled their duty in the same way.
A well-functioning online report should actually have the highest priority given that many people have to drive many Kilometers for each report.
I wonder how an online report can work in practice.
Because who makes that online report, I can stay somewhere else in Thailand and my spouse or son-in-law makes the online report that I am somewhere or back home.
You can't make an empathetic statement online either, they still want to see you in person.
Otherwise, an email to the embassy with the text, Hello there, I'm still alive too.
Unfortunately the practice is different.
Jan Beute.
Dear Janbeute, your spouse or son-in-law can also go to Immigration with your passport in Chiang Mai to register there, while you yourself live with a friend on Phuket for a week.
You have no obligation to go along on the Immigration, the obligation lies solely with the homeowner or the landlord.
That is why the online report, just like the personal report from the homeowner at immigration, as I have written this before, does not bring any security if one does not check this on site.
Gr.John.
janbeute, Concerning the Life Certificate. I have to issue a Certificate of Life to Denmark every year. This is done through the computer. I receive an email that there is a message in my mailbox at the Danish Government. I log in, check that I'm still alive, send this and immediately receive a confirmation as a PDF. Something for the Netherlands, not to mention Thailand. By the way, my Thai spouse or I have never filled out such a TM I know. Been in the hospital 3x and never heard anything about it.
Dear Theo, and if you have already died six months ago, and a family member or good acquaintance knows the procedure and has access to your computer, and the e-mail from the Danish government, it is simple for him to tick the box.
It is not that simple with an empathy statement.
I will be dealing with 3 agencies next year.
The whining is already starting.
Jan Beute.
Dear Janbeute, The life certificate that is often requested from a pension insurance or other benefit, is of course in no way comparable to a TM30 procedure.
A TM30 online notification for a landlord or landlord could function in the same way that hotel owners have been reporting their guests for years.
What financial advantage, compared to e.g. a pension payment, would a hotel or home owner have if he came up with the crazy Idea to register someone who has already died?
I think you are confusing two unrelated things here.
Landlords certainly know those rules. THEY WANT to avoid them. Many are aware of this because short-term rentals (of less than 30 days) require a hotel permit and therefore tax must also be paid for this. And they don't want that. (false competition for the official guesthouses and hotels).
There are many "little" landlords who really don't know the rule. The big boys with a lot in the rental will probably know. But there are many landlords with only a single house / apartment for rent.
I know several examples of honest, really unsuspecting landlords.
The landlord may be obliged to pass on that information, but then he/she must be aware of it.
However, I do not see anywhere that the tenant is obliged to report his departure / return to the landlord.
It seems to me that there is a flaw in the procedure.
I'm planning to stay at my girlfriend's parents' house for a short week in September. Do I have to register this somewhere?
Yes, fewer and fewer people come to stay here, even think that more are leaving than coming in. What to do with that surplus of civil servants, then just keep old rules from stable, that side will still fall apart.
In any case, it is advisable for these officials and politicians to continue in this way, make some more rules if necessary and you will soon be able to chew on a liquorice stick. if they can still buy it.
It is also pure discrimination, a Thai does not have to report if he goes to another province.
A Thai citizen can't help it, but they will suffer, they simply don't understand that. Why should we still sponsor the Thai, by tip money, pay extra for the Thai economy in the bar, I don't sponsor family anymore, carry water to the sea or close one pit with sand that arises from another pit. Yes, your partner living at home with any child(ren) Yes, you cannot escape that, but it will also be over if it is made impossible for the expats to have a normal life here. Thailand is losing its credibility with hard steps. Land van smile has been lost and Amazing Thailand has become crazy Thailand.
Isn't all the writing about this case a bit of a wake-up call for sleeping dogs?
My sister-in-law, owner of the house where the family lives on paper, has never filled out a paper for me and when I'm back in the country and have to report for the 90 days, they don't ask me anything either.
Last x when I got the Thai wife visa also no questions to my wife, we just had to go back home to take some more and better pictures of our house with the house number clearly in the picture.
Last January we all went to Myanmar and for me a new stamp in the passport, they can already see that I have been away for a while but questions about a TM30 ????
Many may have a different opinion, but if I consider that a homeowner or landlord is obliged to report a foreigner every time, even if he or she returns from a few days of touring, then to me that is nothing more than to be called absurd.
Absurd because it often concerns one's own spouse, which one often has to report after driving many kilometers, each time again within 24 hours.
As long as this report does not function properly online, the whole procedure that the legislator expects a homeowner to often have to drive many kilometers seems to me proof that they want to keep the common people small and even stupid.
Any government/legislator who would have confidence in the empowerment of its own people would, when presenting such a legislative obligation, ensure that this notification could at least be more normal or simpler.
Such a duty calls for the democratic protest opinion of the Thai homeowner, who, given his meager rights, understandably prefers to remain silent.
So better not to report every time you move.
At most you can get a fine.
Some spend more on travel money to imm. than what the fine costs.
Finally,
after following all the messages about TM30 in the past week, it only now appears that the notification obligation only applies if you stay in Thailand for more than 90 days. This is shown in the diagram above. For me that could have been described more clearly. I always only come for 4 weeks, half of that time we stay with my Thai in-laws who are almost 80 years old. I already had a nice discussion at home with my wife about reporting or not.
But now it appears that it does not apply if you stay for less than 90 days.
And if you stay longer, cross the border once every 1 months and you don't have to worry about anything.
I'm sorry Fred, I'm afraid you've misunderstood the entire TM 30 procedure.
The 90-day notification and everything related to it, as described in the above article under SECTION 37, has nothing to do with the actual TM30 obligation stated in that same article under SECTION 38.
The TM 30 duty as described under section 38 is the reported duty that every homeowner or landlord has as soon as he gives shelter to a foreigner.
The latter have a duty, irrespective of whether a foreigner may not stay in the country for 90 days, to report this foreigner to an Immigration within 24 hours.
Your fantastic theory, that you would fall outside this rule even after 90 days with a border run, is of course completely made up.
Because your parents-in-law are already over 80 years old, you can take this obligation off them by performing this procedure yourself at the Immigration, but you don't have to worry about anything as you write, given the possible fine that can be between 2000 and 10.000 Baht. the wisest method.
I work here full-time and have 10 paid vacation days………cross the border every 3 months????
Dear Fred,
you are completely wrong. It would be best if you read EVERYTHING that is described in that regulation and not just what suits you best. It has absolutely nothing to do with the length of the stay whether that TM30 report should be made or not. The only difference is whether you have to do it YOURSELF or the landlord. It is very clear if you read EVERYTHING including the end of the explanation: Thai landlords, managers of hotels, apartments, condos…………
This advice is also completely wrong: 'if you stay longer, cross the border once every 1 months and you don't have to worry about anything'. The fact that you then have a different departure card than the original one on first arrival makes the check even easier because you have a different number.
You are reading that completely wrong.
– That 90 days refers to the 90 days notice. So the TM47 report.
This must be carried out for anyone who stays in Thailand for more than 90 days without interruption.
Of course this only applies to Non-immigrants and not to tourists. After all, tourists can never stay in Thailand for longer than 90 days.
– The TM28 actually refers to moving. Change of permanent address. Only applicable for Non-immigrants moving house.
You can also use this form to report a stay in another province as a non-immigrant yourself.
The TM30 refers to an arrival. It does not matter whether you are a non-immigrant or a tourist. It is reporting an arrival at an address.
This must be carried out by the person responsible for the address where that person is staying. So owners, hotels, guesthouse, etc and also the "housemasters" and that can be your wife, in-laws, brother, etc
Whether you're here for 5 days, 30 days, 60 days or more than 90 days doesn't matter at all.
It's an arrival notification.
Tourists should not report themselves because it is generally assumed that they do not have a permanent address here and that they will be reported by the person responsible for the address.
You may be exempt from the TM30 notification. That is if you find yourself in the following situation
(Section 34 of Immigration Law – See link later)
– Diplomatic or Consular Missions
– Performance of official duties
- Touring
– Sports
–Business
– Investing under the competition of the Ministries and Departments concerned.
– Investing or other activities relating to investing subject to the provisions of the law on investment promotion.
– Transit journey.
– Being the person in charge of the crew of a conveyance coming to port, station, or area in the Kingdom.
– Study or observation.
– Mass media.
– Missionary work under the competition of the Ministries and departments concerned.
– Scientific research or training or teaching in a Research Institute in the Kingdom.
– The practice of skilled handicraft or as a specialist
– Other activities as prescribed in the Ministerial Regulations.
and this according to the same immigration law
See Section 37
“The provision of (3) and (4) shall not apply to any cases under Section 34 by any conditions as prescribed by the Director General.”
http://library.siam-legal.com/thai-law/thai-immigration-act-temporary-stay-in-the-kingdom-sections-34-39/
I am not at all surprised that immigration does not care about all the complaints, after all, they are officials who are outside any reality.
But it is still good to express an opinion, because whoever is silent, and that only encourages even more rules and bureaucratic red tape, because no one objects, so it must be good, although that theory may not fit in Thailand because this people is completely different from other Asian countries, which can have its charm but also its dark side.
On Thailand blog there are many people who have "nothing to hide" and think everything is fine, and that is also allowed, everyone is allowed to have an opinion and it would be strange if everyone had the same opinion, yet I fear that this category has not yet reached the understand the seriousness of all this and where it is headed.
Now I have been very concerned about all the TM30 and fingerprint obligation, but the conclusion is indeed that you are not obliged to go to Thailand, and that has already been said by many, but of course it is, so… . we won't do that anymore until a tourist-friendly government comes in, but I'm afraid that won't happen anymore.
According to Lung Eddie I should just sit behind the geraniums because according to him I would belong there (unfriendly comment by the way) but I don't think that is necessary because throughout Europe I can go from A to A without any problems and reporting obligation and even without a passport. B. Do I want that? Well, I'd rather not, but if there is no other way, I'm now considering Laos or Burma, but I still have to figure out how to get there without landing in Thailand, moreover, the visa is very short in Laos.
Now I had said in an earlier post that all measures that are now being introduced in Thailand will flow like an oil slick to other countries, but I was just as wrong here because Thailand is not the forerunner with, among other things, the fingerprints, but is in line of existing countries that already do this, Thailand will therefore not be a last resort.
For the blog reader who really has nothing to hide and applauds all this and thinks it's great, I recommend going to Kuwait, this is big brother number 1 with a dot!, because you can donate DNA there, but that's okay if you have nothing to hide anyway.
The much-discussed Thai form at the time (which apparently did not make it) where people want to know which social media you are on, but restaurant which bar you visit, bank account, car, motorcycle, telephone numbers from the past 4 years, etc, etc that is 2 imported into the US months ago, plus the fingerprints. America is completely safe now, turn on the TV.
In other countries you also have the obligatory iris eye scan, other countries such as the Netherlands and the UK want fingerprints when applying for a visa. Here under the countries with compulsory fingerprint on arrival and departure at the airport (and external borders)
NB the list is not complete or up to date and in various forms much longer.
US, Argentina, Uruguay, Panama, Japan, Singapore, South Korea, Taiwan, Thailand, Cambodia, Malaysia, Philippines, Ghana and Saudi Arabia.
Have a nice day everyone and enjoy your travels, remember that if you arrive in Thailand and put your hands on the scanner, 100.000 + people have been there before you that day, only one with Ebola or plague has to be there and it's over with the Thailand fun. this is no joke!
KhunKarel
“Remember that if you arrive in Thailand and put your hands on the scanner, 100.000 + people have been there before you that day, it only takes one with Ebola or plague and the Thailand fun is over.”
You run an even greater risk if, for example, you use Euro, Baht, Dollar, Pound…. or whatever would take in your hand.
You know what I think.
If tomorrow the Baht would be back at roughly 45, the TM30, TM47, fingerprints, etc… would suddenly no longer be a problem for most people to stay in Thailand.
If that were possible: the baht back to 45.
Didn't the head of immigration, Sompong Chingduang, take up his position this year?
I like that he just wants to let everyone know he's on top of it. Especially those in power who appointed him.
Perhaps this is enough and Mr Sompong can now sit back and relax.
If it doesn't blow over, we'll have more to do or grumble.
As far as I'm concerned, the procedures and rules are about the only downside to my stay here.
I think I'd get nervous with so much happiness if it weren't for this bureaucracy.
My comfort to everyone: Buddhism teaches that everything is temporary
The question remains how long will Mr. Sompong Chingduang still head of the immi.
His predecessor Mr Big Joke had also disappeared within a short period of time with a destination unknown at the time.
That's how fast it goes here in Thailand.
Jan Beute.
Dear Ronnie. As of 01-12-2019 I will be living in Bangkok, together with my wife. My wife (married 12,5 years) is the owner. Does she also have to fill out a TM30 form because I'm going to live there?
with fri.gr.Kees.
Yes.
You can also do this by post in Bangkok, just like the 90 days (TM47) notification.
It doesn't matter whether you are going to live there permanently or temporarily and whether you are married or not.
It is the arrival at the address that counts.
In Ubon it is also possible to make the report by e-mail. We do this for Dutch visitors and also for me (I live in Thailand). The first time we did that, we received a response that we had not provided all the necessary papers/scans. Nowadays we get no response and not even an acknowledgment of receipt. However, that has never caused any problems.
What must we do:
My wife's telephone number must be included in the E-mail because she has to make the declaration and she is therefore also the contact person. Also the following attachments:
-A scan of her ID
-A scan of her blue book
-A completed TM30 form, as a word document
-A scan of the printed TM30 form with my wife's signature
-A scan of my passport (or of the visitor)
-A scan of the page from my passport with the stamp of the last passport control upon entry into Thailand
-A scan of the page from my passport with the annual extension (or visa in case of a visitor)
-A scan of my TM6 form.
Usually I do the declaration myself and my wife only signs the necessary signatures. I'll put her on the cc list.
All in all, it's not something you do in 5 minutes. But at least you don't have to go to immigration.
Best.
Came back yesterday afternoon from 5 days in Pattaya, live in Nongkhai in a rented house.
This morning with a friend to the owner for a report for a TM 30 form.
Answer was; only if you enter through another country then you have to, if you stay in Thailand you don't have to.
Tried to hand over a Thai statement regarding the TM 30 procedure, which I took from the internet without reading it, the answer remained; Does not have to.
Well not.
Period.
My girlfriend also thinks and also thought that I was working too much, I have the impression that they have no idea how the Immigration wants it here and the rules apply to a Farang.
Henry Em
Your landlady confirms what I've been hearing for years from Immigration Nongkhai: if you stay in the country, no new TM30. In fact, I was allowed to leave the old TM30 after a visit to NL, provided the address remained the same. They make their own rules of legal rules everywhere.
You can download that TM30 and fill it in yourself. If the landlady refuses to sign, you can still go to Immigration and you have done your best.
I'm going to my Thai girlfriend's parents in sakonakon for the first time. Stay there for about a week. Do I have to report somewhere?