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Home » News from the Netherlands and Belgium » Minister Grapperhaus to Thailand for Van Laarhoven
Minister Grapperhaus to Thailand for Van Laarhoven
The Dutch Minister Grapperhaus of Justice and Security will travel to Thailand this week to discuss the possible extradition of the Brabant coffee shop owner Johan van Laarhoven.
Van Laarhoven was sentenced in Thailand in 2015 to 103 years in prison, of which he must serve 20 years, for money laundering. The Thai wife of the Dutchman was also sentenced to 12 years in prison. He had earned the laundered money from soft drug trafficking. Van Laarhoven ran four coffee shops in Brabant.
In a letter to the House of Representatives, Grapperhaus writes that he will be received on Friday by Thai Prime Minister Prayut and the Thai Minister of Justice.
According to the NRC, the Public Prosecution Service in Breda is not happy with Grapperhaus's initiative. They believe that the minister should not interfere with an ongoing criminal case. Especially because Van Laarhoven has appealed against his sentence. Negotiations about an extradition are then not convenient.
Read it whole message on the website of the NOS
Are there any more Dutch people in Thailand in prison and will he also make an effort for that, or will he only be there for van Laarhoven?
Then of course there is a smell to it.
That is the question. He has to stand up for everyone. In 2017 there were 13 Dutch people in a Thai cell. I don't know any numbers for this year.
Which scent do you mean? Van Laarhoven has been detained after the Public Prosecution Service in the Netherlands had submitted a careless request for legal assistance to their Thai colleagues, according to the Ombudsman. This does not apply to the other Dutch prisoners in Thai prisons. Looking forward to the outcome of next Friday's meeting. The Thai courts eventually convicted van Laarhoven of money laundering in Thailand. No doubt Prayut will have the power to overturn this statement. But for whatever reasons would Prayut want to do that. This does not exactly promote the appearance that the judiciary in Thailand functions independently.
That smell is certainly there, in my opinion, 2 officials had gone to Thailand at the time (it was clearly on the screen at the time) to talk to the higher officials there and have a nice drink, that's what the photo looked like at the time, these gentlemen were wrong. here in the Netherlands I already had a collision with Mr. Van Laarhoven and now saw their opportunity to get back at him, so I can see it now, it was strange how that came across
Dear Mrs Annie, it is customary for officials to go abroad to obtain information about Dutch people who are suspected of (serious) criminal offences. This may be part of a request for legal assistance. This happens very often. I think it's great that you can read all this from such a photo, but whether it is correct. I have my doubts about this though.
Yes, the Netherlands is also concerned about Dutch people in Thai prisons.
I can still remember that the Netherlands got a Chinese out of it who did not speak a word of Dutch but did have a Dutch passport.
I have no further opinion on that, but van Laarhoven has been treated scandalously by the Netherlands.
Made big mistakes and never worried about van Laarhoven who doesn't belong there in prison.
I know where Van Laarhoven earned his money, but that doesn't matter.
The Netherlands has been wrong on a legal level and it is much too late to make amends
May cost the taxpayer some money, other Dutch people can burst
Very strange that a minister would do this. Is it perhaps an acquaintance of his?
There is something more going on here. The public prosecutor on duty at the time, the mastermind behind this unsavory affair, was Lucas van Delft. He was kicked off the avenue. His superiors have meanwhile also had to pack their bags. The minister is probably trying to clean up the mess to prevent further loss of face.
I can well imagine that the Public Prosecution Service in Breda is not happy with that visit from the minister. Does that man have nothing better to do? It seems to me that Minister Grapperhaus could spend his time more usefully than traveling all the way to Thailand to assist a criminal; that's what other people are for.
In addition, I think that the Thai are not happy with interference from foreigners in their criminal justice system.
Strange situation. Extradition is only possible after all cases have been resolved. Since he has appealed, this cannot be done.
And yes, there are several Dutch people stuck in Thailand.
Heer Grapperhaus has everything neatly in order in the Netherlands. The Netherlands is well on its way to Narco state
become number 1 in the world. Then he comes here to tell that man just needs to be released.
And he is even received by Prayut when it comes to a drug criminal!!!
If you really think he's coming to tell you that the man just needs to be released, you haven't understood much, I'm afraid.
The government never does it right either: heavy criticism of the Public Prosecution Service for the consequences of their actions and the apparent failure to take any action, and now that a minister is taking steps himself, it is not good either. Pffft………….
why the rush? this can't be explained to anyone, can it?!
Hast?
Or years too late?
That man has been imprisoned in Thailand for many years. At the hands of the Dutch Public Prosecution Service. I think the latter has been objectively determined by now. by our own national Ombudsman.
Download the Report of the National Ombudsman here: https://www.nationaleombudsman.nl/system/files/rapport/20190014%20%20R%20%20201708510%20%2011-3-2019.pdf
I think Grapperhaus is going to Thailand on behalf of the House of Representatives. damage control?
He has been in prison for years because he broke the law in Thailand.
The fact that the Thai government may have become interested in him through Dutch officials does not change that.
He has been convicted of a crime he committed in Thailand.
He could also have chosen not to commit that crime.
I totally agree with you Rudy.
Mistakes will have been made and yes there are gray areas and loopholes but don't go whining if you get caught.
Unbelievable that as a criminal you get so much done. Indeed, it has a very unhealthy smell to it.
Let's recap what it's all about:
Van Laarhoven, founder of four coffee shops in Brabant, was arrested five years ago by the Thai police after the Dutch judiciary had sent a request for legal assistance to Thailand. Van Laarhoven has been living on his own since 2008 in Pattaya, Thailand. He was arrested together with his Thai wife when the Dutch OM requested information in an investigation that has been ongoing in the Netherlands since 2011. Johan van Laarhoven, his brother Frans and a number of employees of a Brabant coffee shop chain are suspected in the Netherlands of money laundering of drug money, large-scale tax evasion and membership of a criminal organization. According to the Public Prosecution Service, the suspects have earned about 20 million euros through fraud. Much of the money has been invested in Thailand.
As you put it, Van Laarhoven has not committed any criminal offense in Thailand, ergo: Thailand has absolutely no legal basis to convict him. The fact is that the Public Prosecution Service in Breda gave the Thai government ideas. In any case, what Van Laarhoven brought into Thailand has already been “taken”. Is this a win-win situation? Van Laarhoven in jail, and Thailand a bit richer?
Has van Laarhoven not been convicted of money laundering? In other words, do not declare imports of large amounts of money. Formally has nothing to do with his alleged drug income. What does Grappenhaus want to do about it? Let him (also) worry about others.
guys right,
we are talking about a pathetic drug dealer, the poor man has only enriched himself by selling drugs.
In the meantime, he has created more employment opportunities.
Don't forget that thanks to him, the health care and rehab clinics have gained a lot more customers.
As a Dutchman you should be proud of that and therefore want to bring him back to the Netherlands as Sinterklaas.
Do you have the same opinion about alcohol and tobacco farmers as well as about sugar producers and the pharmaceutical industry?
Richard anyway,
The qualification 'pathetic drug dealer' does not seem to me to apply to van Laarhoven. He was the owner of a number of coffee shops, which does not constitute a criminal offense in the Netherlands. It has also done him no harm, as a smart businessman he has made millions by selling the chain. The fact that he was suspected of tax evasion in the Netherlands has nothing to do with the fact that his merchandise consisted of soft drugs. Soft drugs, which can now also be obtained from pharmacies against a number of ailments on a doctor's prescription. In the past, the doctor sometimes advised to have a drink every day before going to sleep. It now appears that alcohol is not that good for health at all and certainly not when consumed excessively. In that respect, rehab clinics have existed for decades and the medical costs due to excessive alcohol consumption in the Netherlands run into the billions. Nevertheless, alcohol is widely accessible, the wine shelves in the supermarkets are overflowing and the use of alcohol is promoted very intrusively through advertisements. The board members of Gall & Gall, part of Ahold, will not exactly be poor either, but no one will fall for that, while Van Laarhoven is constantly accused of earning well. By the way, Sinterklaas originally came from Turkey, what does that have to do with van Laarhoven in Thailand?
He sold soft drugs in the Netherlands, something that is completely legal here.
You trip over the soft drugs cases here
More and more countries are decriminalizing soft drugs. Quite recently, cultivation, use and sale has been released in Canada. This is also followed in Mexico because it is unconstitutional not to allow it. Two US states have already released it. It is not seen as a crime in several countries in Europe. Uruguay the first country where it was allowed. Even in Thailand, weed for medicinal use is now allowed.
So, as a black stocking supporter, don't mention that there is anything criminal about the sale, trade and use of soft drugs in the Netherlands. There is only talk of tax evasion and that is being brought to court as a case and (justice) is even working there with a settlement (20 million to be paid).
Dear Ger-Korat, you are comparing apples with oranges. Manufacturing for medical use is of a different order than an application of a policy of tolerance, whereby the delivery of these drugs has to go through the back door and through the front door people are only allowed to purchase a small amount of drugs for their own use. Growing and trading those plants for that target group is still prohibited in the Netherlands. That a large number of people use this other than on a doctor's prescription and to treat a disease is beyond my imagination, but that's aside for a moment. But maybe the use of drugs by healthy people is also a disease, who knows. People do do weird things. In this case there is tax evasion and that is more commonplace in these types of companies and also the laundering of illegally obtained money. So criminal offenses.
I do know that the tolerance policy is quite confusing for some, but I am not going to pretend that the use of soft drugs does not cause problems in a society.
Dear Jacques, my point is that even in strict Thailand, as far as drugs are concerned, they already allow cultivation for medicinal purposes. And that is not even allowed in the Netherlands, not even for your own medical use! The Netherlands has been overtaken left and right for years by other countries in this regard, look at Spain where cultivation is simply allowed.
What does not cause problems in society? Think of the various abuses in the judiciary itself, such as the lying and corruption of public prosecutor M. van N. or the recent convictions of the police commissioner in Amsterdam AS or the head of the Central Works Council of the police. preaching of morals because many who have to judge that are major offenders themselves and then I am only talking about the Netherlands. The policy of tolerance was introduced 50 years ago precisely because it was recognized that prohibition has the opposite effect on use.
Dear Ger-Korat, the fact that in many countries it is now allowed to use this stuff has to do with the big money. A lot can be earned from it. There is no doubt that a small group of sick people is served with this medicine. I am not against growing for these purposes. Everywhere you meet people who cannot resist the temptations. Entire ethnic groups come to Thailand because of the large number of prostitutes, just to name a few.
I have known both police officers in good times and what they did not do right has been extensively in the news. As far as the Commissioner is concerned, I have my reservations about this, because there was much more going on than has been made public. As for the then chairman of the works council Frank G, he was apparently far too generous in spending on meals in restaurants and went over his budget. He couldn't give good explanations for that. I'm not going to speak well of either, because where there's smoke there's fire. They got their punishment. However, they have done good work for society for years and I have no idea how Van Laarhoven is doing, other than this criminal story. There is good and evil in every person, that is true, but I do not want to lump these cases together.
There is quite a group of drug users (addicts) I can't deny that and just like with the battle of alcoholic beverages, from the 20s, which also made a lot of people sick, the drugs are a significant factor, of which it was felt that this should not be banned 100%. Hence the tolerance policy.
Justice is necessary to keep it safe and livable. No one wants outlaws, but they are part of our society with all the consequences that entails.
De Volkskrant writes today:
“Last March, the National Ombudsman ruled that Van Laarhoven could be arrested because the Netherlands had made mistakes in an extradition request. The information in that request was formulated in such a way that the Public Prosecution Service could have expected that the Thai authorities would arrest the drug trafficker residing in Thailand at that time, the Ombudsman believes.”
The minister has something to make up for….
I don't quite get that. In the extradition request - I assume - the truth was told about van Laarhoven, his legal coffee shop activities in the Netherlands and the criminal offenses he is suspected of in the Netherlands. Based on the truth, the Thai government sees reasons to arrest him here: money laundering obtained through drug trafficking.
And now Grappenhaus has something to make up for? Should they have written lies in the extradition request?
Lots of assumptions.
Do you know the text of that request for legal assistance?
The Netherlands always behave impeccably?
Read the case of Julio Poch, Spain and Argentina I would say.
Unfortunately, that assumption is wrong as the translation into English was more difficult. Quite strange when you know that when translating from Thai to English, the Thai translation weighs more heavily.
In other words, the incorrect English translation weighs more heavily than the Dutch language.
That Joker is going to try and straighten out what's crooked, but don't worry; those responsible in this farce are never punished in the banana monarchy.
Indeed, the sworn translators did it.
I have the impression that the best ombudsman is letting himself be too emotionally drawn into the cards here. It is his job to give advice, but it was of course never the intention of the judiciary to bring Van laarhoven to court in Thailand by means of a request for legal assistance, drawn up by the police. There is no request for legal assistance for that. That does not serve the Dutch case either.
Instead of just checking whether the requested information about Van Laarhoven can be found in Thailand, the Thai authority has launched an investigation itself. Probably because there was a suspicion that black money was being laundered. When people viewed his capital villa and did all kinds of business and inquiries, they soon found out that Van Laarhoven was also breaking Thai law. Acting then is an option. The fact that you can say in retrospect that perhaps even more caution should have been exercised when requesting data by means of a request for legal assistance from the Thai authorities is a lesson in hindsight. I think that in that connection Minister Grappenhaus would like to explain a few things and see whether he cannot be extradited in the long term. I think the punishment is disproportionate according to Dutch standards, but it applies to Thailand, so he will have to make do with it. I am not a fan of Van Laarhoven and the best man has been very reprehensible and so has his wife. He certainly deserves punishment, also in the Netherlands. I know, that's ultimately up to a judge and not me, but we'll see what happens. I am afraid that Van Laarhoven's lawyers in the Netherlands will make a farce of it and that a lot of nonsensical things will be introduced, which may be deducted from the sentence. All this if it comes to that, because we don't know yet. This reduction would in turn not do justice to the offenses committed and the sentence. A hefty punishment is certainly in order. That a minister and the Dutch embassy must at all times stand up for their Dutch nationals should be beyond dispute. But it has a limit and we will find out in time.
You are completely wrong. In the second instance, NL gave TH the hint to start an investigation itself, and since Van Laarhoven lived on drug money, that fact was apparently insufficient to expel him, but good enough to progress. Inform yourself, first read about the history of the Van laarhoven case, and then the Ombudsman's report.
Dear RuudB, I have drawn up the necessary requests for legal assistance in the past and submitted them through the judiciary and I know more or less how that works. In detail I don't know what it says because that depends on what people want to know, but you don't know that either. In this way we interpret it our way and there are differences of opinion. However, the word suspect was used in the request for legal assistance, which could cause problems. I read this in the news. I thank you the cuckoo. How is it possible that this word is used. Should you deduce from this that they will then conduct their own investigation and would this stand in the way of an extradition request? There will not have been a request for the Thai authority to conduct its own investigation and then file a lawsuit itself. That was our own initiative. You will not make such a request for legal assistance without a suspect. Among other things, it is about knowing how Van Laarhoven lives in Thailand. How he spends his money and whether this can be reconciled with the income he has reported to the tax authorities in the Netherlands, etc, etc. Any purchase of goods obtained through crime abroad can also be claimed. Such research is widely used. Collecting and accumulating criminal information is police work par excellence and since Van Laarhoven had already taken the slack, his life in Thailand has only become more important and interesting. He himself has made many mistakes and brought this hassle on himself. Sometimes being a criminal doesn't pay off.
In the request to Thailand, according to information from the Public Prosecution Service, the term “suspect” was used, which triggered TH to take action itself. The Public Prosecution Service, the NatOmbMan and the MinJus have said that this was not the intention, as a result of which Van Laarhoven has been wrongly imprisoned for at least 20 years. So it is right that NL is trying to make up for this. The rest is irrelevant. As a former police officer you should know what denial means!
That the request for legal assistance only served to obtain as much information as possible about Van Laarhoven in Thailand is beyond dispute. There is such a request for that. It is also clear that it concerns a suspect, because otherwise the police and judiciary would never have started an investigation. Everything was known about him in the Netherlands, take it from me. That the Thai authorities like to score themselves and take up business with foreigners was not sufficiently estimated. You can call that naive or ignorance, but it did turn out wrong for the Netherlands, which wanted Van laarhoven behind bars. Maybe it will work, but I don't think it will be anytime soon. Van Laarhoven is not unjustly imprisoned in Thailand, he and his wife and family have caused this themselves by also committing criminal offenses in Thailand. He makes a profession or habit of it, I should say. But perhaps you sanctify the saying what does not know does not hurt. Following the TM30 form, a police check should take place as standard with the foreigner who settles in Thailand and a good behavior assessment. Then there is a much greater chance of tracing and tackling criminals or deporting them with an “entry ban” that depends on the offenses committed. For Van Laarhoven at least 40 years of exclusion for Thailand. And if he unexpectedly illegally re-enter Thailand, he will have to serve the rest of his old sentence upon detection.
Dear Jacques, your position is clear and certainly not mine. As I said: both OM and MinJus and NatOmMan report that mistakes have been made. The rest is irrelevant. Everyone can then fantasize what he wants, it is and remains from the sidelines.
The fact that the Netherlands is sending a minister says enough, the Netherlands has made a very big mistake.
Now as soon as possible from Laarhoven to the Netherlands where he can file a lawsuit against the Dutch state and the rats of the Public Prosecution Service that screwed him over.
Suspects would be willing to buy off their prosecution for 20 million!
National Ombudsman issued a critical report on OM and Min. of Justice.
I can already see the storm coming: suspect to NL, lawyer sues NL State, suspect immediately free man with substantial compensation because it was all so sad for him.
Being able to buy off your sentence, I think that would be great for the rich.
That system also exists in Thailand, but only the rich have the money to pay off their sentence.
The poor have no chance card “get out of jail after a payment”.
Minister Grappenhaus will (should?) probably try to get van Laarhoven released (earlier) or try to have van Laarhoven serve his sentence in the Netherlands in response to the Ombudsman's ruling. That will likely amount to immediate release. The Thais don't care, so if they do the Netherlands a favor, they'll let van Laarhoven go.
For the record and some of us have forgotten, don't know or don't want to know: Van Laarhoven is not innocent! He was (in my opinion completely justified) convicted of money laundering in Thailand and that is exactly what he did. Can't get a pin in between.
In the Netherlands there is a tolerance policy and 1 or more (or no) coffee shops per municipality are allowed to sell a limited amount of weed. For example 500 grams. The problem is that the coffee shops don't stop once that day's supply has been sold. But because that is not allowed, it happens “under the counter” and the proceeds are “black”. After all, you cannot legally enter your illegally obtained proceeds in your accounting. You don't have to be an Einstein to understand that with 500 grams per day (and possibly across several branches) you can NEVER NEVER become a multimillionaire like van Laarhoven. And mister van Laarhoven didn't win the state lottery either, so there's something fishy about it.
Van Laarhoven then left for Thailand with his “black” millions and used the money for investments and building a house or houses. And that is money laundering, both in the Netherlands and in Thailand! His conviction is justified. Both van Laarhoven and the (Dutch) Public Prosecution Service know very well what the situation is, only the Dutch Public Prosecution Service has difficulty getting conclusive evidence (that more than the daily stock has been sold). The fact that van Laarhoven's story is also not watertight is irrelevant; in our criminal law (the Dutch) the Public Prosecution Service must provide evidence (the criminal activity in this case is drug trafficking, had it gone to the Tax Law, then the principle that van Laarhoven must show where he got the money from. But at that time van Laarhoven was already in Thailand).
For clarity; The Ombudsman is not about criminal law. Following a complaint, the ombudsman ruled that the actions of the Dutch Public Prosecution Service were incorrect. This does not judge the (in)nocence of van Laarhoven, so we should not draw that conclusion. With the Ombudsman's ruling and the time that has passed, people in The Hague must now have thought “enough”. So the minister goes to Thailand. Well, it is what it is. In my opinion, Van Laarhoven is simply guilty of drug trafficking and made the mistake of spending his criminal money in Thailand. And then you have to suffer the consequences.
Dear Dennis, do have a comment. It is nowhere stated that the stock of weed to be sold is 500 grams per day. I read on the website of the central government that the trading stock may not exceed 500 grams. This means that if the stock is less than 500 grams, it can be replenished up to the maximum of 500 grams, and that can be done as often as necessary per day. Have read that this is the problem and that the coffee shop owner keeps something in reserve because of good sales and to ensure that soft drugs are constantly available and that there is no shortage in the supply. The point is also that they are allowed to sell, but that the supply is not clearly defined and who does this. That is a gray area with regard to soft drugs. And that those who grow weed are punishable again.
I also find it so narrow-minded that many people say that there is money laundering. Who likes to pay taxes? If there is an opportunity to pay less, most will seize it, but most of them are or were wage slaves and had nothing to do with it. I myself think many things in the
catering industry have to deal with this or, for example, the massage parlors in the Netherlands. Simply conceal turnover or buy goods privately at markets, for example, and then there is no longer any control possible on sales based on margins, which the Tax and Customs Administration does at restaurants, for example. And eventually the money earned on which no tax has been paid is spent, which some call this money laundering. Yes, it is also if they buy a croquette sandwich with this money or go on holiday with it.
For the conditions for coffee shops, please see the link of the Dutch government regarding the trading stock:
https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen/drugs/gedoogbeleid-softdrugs-en-coffeeshops
You are justifying Van Laarhoven's criminal behavior and you are citing examples from the catering industry and massage parlors, which we all know and which do not belong in our democratic constitutional state, where everyone must comply with the law.
That 500 grams of trading stock was not set without reason. A drug trafficker should adhere to this and it is not the intention that he or she will become filthy rich. That's what traders are after money, money and more money. The healthy society will be a worst for them.
As good and hard-working pensioners in Thailand, we are no longer allowed to have a bank account with the ABNAMRO state bank due to the risk of money laundering from criminals.
No problem with Van Laarhoven, the minister himself comes to Thailand to arrange matters for a dubious person.
The Dutch government therefore applies double standards.
Crime pays.
Should a compatriot end up innocently in a Thai jail because he was tricked into it, don't think that you can expect any help from the Netherlands.
Jan Beute.
Maybe I will get better information from the Netherlands because many reactions from those “neat” expats here make no sense. It is not for nothing that the 2nd chamber intervened to respond to the scandalous infringement of the rights of this (yet) convicted coffee shop owner and instructed the Minister to intervene because of the behavior of the Public Prosecution Service. It is not for nothing that Annie writes about the 2 officials who were in Thailand at the time. I wouldn't be surprised if in corrupt Thailand the laundered
millions have disappeared into the pockets of Thai and ... even Dutch senior officials. It is not for nothing that officials in the Netherlands have been fired over this case, and no one has ever been convicted of this money laundering. There's a lot of smells to this case.
That does not make Van Laarhoven innocent! He was rightly convicted there under Thai law, so please don't act a bit hypocritical from the Netherlands.
This high visit may lead to the verdict in cassation, which was already expected in December 2018, finally arriving. In that case, the 20 years for 'investing money earned with drugs' may remain and L can return to NL on the basis of the treaty. Whether his wife, who is Thai, can come along depends on a pardon from the King or minister; that will also be on the Grapperhaus agenda.
Then this stinking thing is out of the world because the opinion of the National Ombudsman cannot be misunderstood. Van L will lose the appeal against the seizure of his assets in Thailand, but that is 'own fault, big bump' because with all his money he could have bought better advice than 'go to Thailand'.
Let's not forget that Van L is at most a suspect in NL because as far as I know the summons against him has been withdrawn. And his wife is also not suspected of anything in NL.
Indeed, Minister Grapperhaus has nothing better to do,
I think they then arranged for him to be arrested from the Netherlands.
But then the minister will be busy, he can go off many countries, if you see from the last month
1 in Germany
1 in Belgium
2 in Hungary
who made the news
There would be a settlement proposal worth € 20.000.000
The Thai, knowing them a little bit, don't say no to that. Just pay attention!
Quite right, then those cowards should not have hidden behind UN rules and in the meantime have recognized the importance for public health and therefore tolerated.
That is the real Netherlands.
The NS deported Jews, the Tax and Customs Administration had absolutely no compassion for people who had helped many others in the war to survive, the government has encouraged us to use meat, milk and sugar because it is said to be so healthy, but thanks to advancing insight We now know that the NL government was not reliable and still is not.
How can you defend that a Dutch request message has been incorrectly translated into English?
Look it up on parliamentary questions and you will see that investigation requests must be handled very carefully and that a gay suspect in Saudi Arabia is left alone and that Van Laarhoven had a lot of frustration to bother him. Tunnel vision does not exist for deniers.
It is incomprehensible to me that a minister in person comes to Thailand to talk about “the Van Laarhoven case”. Whatever the topic of conversation will be.
We are talking about a drug trafficker, a money laundering criminal! And not about someone who is innocently in prison...
At that time, the Netherlands only submitted a request for legal assistance.
The fact that the Thai police went astray and conducted their own investigation and came across money laundering practices is Van Laarhoven's own fault due to his lavish lavish lifestyle here in Thailand. And it is not the fault of the Netherlands or the Public Prosecution Service!
Just the fact that the family wants to buy him out for 20 million euros says enough!
The response to the intended visit by Minister Grapperhaus to the Thai authority is disproportionate. Strange, because the Netherlands has made serious mistakes in this case. Result: a sentence of 105 years, of which 20 years must be served. To achieve that number of years in NL, a lot has to be done. Of course, Van Laarhoven was a drug dealer, money launderer, tax evader, and so on. But let's just act normal as farang in Thailand first. The Thai will do the rest. No one wants to waste years in a Thai cell. At the time, Van Laarhoven gambled that he was safe in Thailand. That turned out not to be the case due to the actions of a rancorous Public Prosecutor. If Van Laarhoven is still imprisoned in the Netherlands in the coming years, the stocking should be finished.
Just think: what if you get into trouble in Thailand, and they forget about you?
Family and expensive lawyer have made considerable progress towards the media and government.
May of course. Although not everyone has those entrances and the necessary money.
And not for every compatriot in need (this suspect wants to settle with the NL government for millions), the government will fly abroad. And that leaves me with the following impression:
George Orwell – Animal farm: “All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others”.
Van Laarhoven has in the past received large amounts of money from various countries that went to a bank account in Thailand, if I remember correctly.
He could not explain to the Thai judiciary what this money was for.
So guilty of money laundering of drug money which is punishable in Thailand.
End of story.
I wonder if “Minister Prankster” only applies to Van Laarhoven or also to his wife…and/whether Van Laarhoven is concerned about his wife.
Come across few media articles about his wife…
This man has done nothing wrong in Thailand, he has been convicted on hearsay from the Dutch judiciary. He has not harmed anyone. Things happen in Thailand that do bother the citizen. Let them focus on that. I mean the international mafia in tourist resorts, corruption and other scams that affect citizens and tourists. Whoever lives without sin throws the first stone.
You can also reason that if the judge finds you guilty of a crime, you are also guilty for/in the society in which you committed that crime.
Never mind that you can still be innocent but you have not been able to prove it.
So far, the Thai court has ruled that van Laarhoven is guilty and SO he is guilty. It's that simple.
An argument that makes no sense. So many people have been put in prisons because a judge ruled so, but guilty? Fortunately, we can submit revision requests through the Supreme Court in the Netherlands. The innocence of many has subsequently been proven.
I haven't really looked into this case, but I seem to remember that prohibited weapons and drugs were found during the raid on his house in TH. These offenses are both punishable in TH.
What preceded it may not be very neat from NL, but it is also not entirely unjustified.
Again, this ignores the fact that the NL. acts criminal acts in Thailand have come to light from Van Laarhoven, and that he has been convicted for this, not especially that coffee house situation, but that does not exactly put him in a good light with the Thais.
Channeling that money without declarations, buying land + houses through third parties, as foreigners are not allowed to own Thai land property. A weapon was also found, perhaps in the name of a Thai, but it must also have been checked whose fingerprints were on it?
In short, for me he does not have to sit in a Thai cell for 20 years, but he is not an innocent dork either.
It bothers me that if this happens to a wealthy person, suddenly all media and political friends come into action in NL. , which there are undoubtedly other guilty and possibly innocent people in Thai prisons, are not looked after ,
We know us once again!
Personally, I think that the Thais will see this as an interference in their legal process, and this will certainly not benefit JVL
David H, consultation at ministerial level is not nothing! A lot of preliminary work has been done for this and this is an important step forward. With a 'no' or great displeasure from the Thai side, Grapperhaus would not have left.
An interview with Ben Bot was published today by rtlnieuws.nl and he confirms the importance of the minister's trip. Otherwise they would have done nothing and waited for the judge in Thailand; after that, Van L can be in NL within six months on the basis of the treaty.
For those who want the news from NL newspapers, here is the link to the article in today's NRC https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2019/08/20/grapperhaus-naar-thailand-in-zaak-coffeeshophouder-ongenoegen-bij-om-a3970628#/next/2019/08/21/
When will the Netherlands send the finance minister to Thailand for a meeting with his Thai counterpart.
Can they catch up on paying double tax on our AOW and ABP pensions.
Many Dutch pension boxes are better served with this.
Afraid that this will never happen, is not as important as in the van Laarhoven case.
Jan Beute.
It is sad to see that many people here at TB Van Laarhoven consider a serious criminal who has deserved his punishment in Thailand. I can hardly imagine that there are people who wish someone else a stay in a Thai dungeon, especially since there is only a case of tax evasion that has not yet been proven.
If the state of the Netherlands would first start arresting our friends from the banks, this would be a good start, instead of framing an old sick man and his wife.
The banks are the biggest criminals on this planet, they rob billions together, and have put us in recession for years. I don't see any arrests, only fines amounting to only a few percent of their loot.
The first car manufacturer (Germany) has finally been busted too, and the first pedo-cardinal (Australia) so there's a bit of action coming in, but it's slow, it's clear why it seems to me, ELITE! good old guys network, a few have now been sacrificed to keep the peace.
I would like to say about hashish (I do not use it myself) so far there is not 1 known case of someone who has died after smoking hashish, even with long-term use there are no victims, this is absolutely not the same as a crack addict or a heroin junkie, as some readers here might think.
So I don't understand the hatred of some people towards Van Laarhoven here on the blog. There is already so much hatred and misery in the world, so why be so vicious?
Incidentally, Die Grapperhaus is also a very unreliable subject, whoever follows the news knows what I mean, so because of the whistleblower affair, and action against the journalists. But who can be trusted? I'd rather drink a beer with Van Laarhoven than with Herr Grapperhaus.
KhunKarel
Khun Karel, I would almost go with you to have a beer with you, but unfortunately you are missing the point as far as Van L is concerned.
Van L has legally earned money in the Netherlands from the sale of cannabis. And big money earned too, but to date it has still not been PROVEN that fraud has been committed.
But he bought property in Thailand with drug profits. This is called drug money laundering in Thailand. Money laundering does not mean that the money is/was black. Van Dale says that money laundering is, I quote, 'legally investing and investing (black money)'. In Thailand, investing money earned with drugs is a criminal offense. Even if it was legally earned in another country.
At least two judges in Thailand say that and it is internationally accepted; NL also has legislation to punish paedosexuals who are abroad … in NL for this. And don't forget Uncle Sam with his 'national security'….. I hope the Thai cassation judge thinks otherwise, but that could be in vain….
The first lawsuit was conducted extremely clumsily. There was no answer to simple questions from the judge, but what do you want with a lawyer who comes to the Netherlands and says 'I brought the Bangkok Post with me, so the judge can see that I have actually been here...'. Clumsiness at its finest while Van L can/could afford the best lawyers.
Van L could also have paid the best advisers, but chose to go to Thailand. Hindsight... but hindsight is too easy.
Unfortunately, you think that in order to explain your story (yes, which story actually…) you should give the banks a red card and also Grapperhaus. And cardinals. Banks and pedos, a little cheap, Khun Karel.
Grapperhaus is a minister and as Ben Bot writes today, the minister only flies to Thailand if there is something to negotiate. So something has been chewed up by officials on both sides and soon, after the mutual pleasantries and the press moment, both sides will sign an agreement in which, in addition to much blabla, it is stated that the imprisonment of Van L and his wife will come to an end and that they will conditions can go to NL. Then all of Van L's claims on his seized millions in Thailand may expire and he can defend himself in the Netherlands against an indictment that has not yet been filed…..
In 20 years' time, that failing civil servant from a Van Delft will quietly receive his 'well-deserved' ribbon, and in 40 years no one will remember who Van L was. We can worry, but L is also just a speck in history. But the spot does belong in the polder and not in a Thai pigsty.
All in all, it is ironic that Grappenhaus, the minister who wants fewer festivals in the Netherlands to reduce drug use, personally goes to Thailand to free a drug baron from prison... 😉
You may have missed it, but our democratically elected House of Representatives has urged the minister to take action, after which he has promised to commit himself to a transfer to the Netherlands
Nice and easy to play it on the person.
Dear Cornelis, otherwise just look up the word 'irony' in any dictionary and for your information that enclosed winking smiley also has a certain meaning.
Still amazed that grapperhaus itself is coming.
The ambassador could have done this anyway. Does this mean that the embassy has no function in this? Given all the reactions that are written here, it is believed that van lahoven has been unjustly imprisoned.
But once in a prison ask the inmate if they are guilty. The majority will answer that they are innocent and unjustly imprisoned.
If the Thai are sensible, they just hold the man. A few years ago they let someone go to the Netherlands. He had been imprisoned for 9 years. I don't know the length of the sentence. But his sentence was not over yet. When he arrived in the Netherlands, he was allowed to go home immediately, because for which he was convicted in Thailand, the sentence in the Netherlands was much less, shorter than 9 years. I don't think this is disrespectful to the Thai. This has been on the news in the Netherlands. To prevent people from shouting: “where is the source?” I would suggest go googling.
With increasing amazement I have seen the number of responses and read most of them…
Or the world will end!
Only because a drug criminal, fraudster, tax evader and money launderer is in a Thai prison. And then we send a MINISTER to solve this? Incredible.
A request for legal assistance was once sent to Thailand because van Laarhoven was suspected of a number of dark matters. The term suspect is therefore fully appropriate here.
I assume most readers and writers on this block have never had a request for legal assistance sent? Why? Because we are not suspected of shady business…
It is a Thai decision that the Thai police took action themselves and checked him. And not wrongly. Drugs, weapons and expensive cars were found in his homes, and he could not prove how he had brought the money to Thailand. So it was illegally brought to Thailand and laundered here. And that is a major crime in Thailand which has nothing to do with how he made his millions but with how he brought all his money here illegally and laundered it.
He was subsequently convicted in Thailand! Rightly so!
It is incomprehensible to me that this case is so blown up.
Whoever burns his buttocks must sit on the blisters. That's just how it is.
There are almost 20 Dutch people in Thai prisons. Will there also be such a fuss about this, and will we also send a minister or state secretary to Thailand for this? So no!
They can just rot in a Thai cell…
And van Laarhoven, puts himself in a victim role, supported by the media, and many of his friends, and sympathizers, also here on this blog…
And for him an exception is made and we send one of the highest government officials…!
With great surprise I have read many comments here on this blog, and behind my own ears
Of course, the whole visit is completely pre-cooked for the minister, and he even has an appointment with the Prime Minister of Thailand for a reason! But they also know that he will never have to serve his 20 years in NL, to which he has been sentenced. So the question is how the Thai government reacts to this.
But I am convinced that NL will not send the minister to come back empty handed…
That would be a great loss of face for the Dutch government and the House of Representatives who have insisted on this… and apparently have no qualms about spending thousands of euros on this ministerial trip to release someone who has committed a serious crime in Thailand .
Thanks for Alex's response. A very down-to-earth and realistic approach.
Those who feel such pity for Mr Van L. and declare their solidarity with the (nmm hypocritical and hysterical) noise against the so-called injustice done to him should take a good look at themselves and try to make a distinction between right and wrong ( pissed off).
The fact that Minister Grapperhaus is going to Thailand to do his best for an ordinary criminal has everything to do with the fact that he wants to be flattered by certain circles.
In any case, people who think that Mr. Van L. is an innocent and nice person do not belong to my circle of friends.
The Dutch government can better devote its energy and attention to the problems that decent Dutch people have with Thai visa rules and bank blockades to hold an account in Thailand.
Thank you Joe for your response.
I also do not want to count certain people who depict everything distorted and defend vL “by fire and sword” as part of my circle of friends…
An extradition request has never been submitted, but a request for legal assistance has been submitted, which only happens if someone is suspicious… That's how clear it is!
Alex, your case knowledge is weak.
Just read the verdict of the first court case, the judge was able to find out exactly which amounts, when and how were booked to Thailand and by ordinary bank transfer. Nothing mysterious about it.
You call expensive cars a criminal offense, but I don't read that in Thai law. Drugs and a gun in the house: that has been reported by the Thai press and you take it for granted. Van L was not convicted of this, possibly his wife was.
You pass the harsh judgment of the ombudsman; you see a minister's visit as a trivial circumstance. Well, that's not nothing! I saw Grapperhaus on TV today after his consultation at the highest Thai level and his statement was clear: not years, possibly not months. With this, the wrong treatment by the Public Prosecution Service in NL can finally be rectified.
But … there are 400+ coffee shops in NL that sell cannabis. If the owners or salaried employees invest that earned money in Thailand, we will get another case. I hope that Ministry of Foreign Affairs will put this on its site as a warning. And not just for Thailand…
there is nothing wrong with your file knowledge Erik, but unfortunately as a result of this you are not welcome for coffee at Alex and Joop. 🙁
I think there are coffee shop owners who don't even dare to go on holiday to Thailand anymore.
I happen to know someone who had a coffee shop in the past and even he doesn't dare to go to Thailand. Before you know it you are the boss in these kinds of countries. 'better safe than sorry', as we say.
An advantage of this whole affair is that it sends a (clear?) signal to the Thai government that in a democracy, the elected government must do what a majority of parliament decides. And that the government accepts the judgment of an impartial organization.
Every disadvantage has its advantage.
But I do not understand that Minister Grapperhaus was also received by Prime Minister Prayut. Ruth was nml. not present at this meeting. Then you might as well be received by the man (X) who is really in control these days.
Grapperhaus can show what he can achieve in Bangkok
money laundering
Comments
A version of this article also appeared in NRC Handelsblad of August 23, 2019
Minister Grapperhaus (CDA, justice) is on a diplomatic mission to Bangkok, to the apparent dismay of the Public Prosecution Service in Breda. He wants permission there to allow a Dutch prisoner to continue serving his sentence in the Netherlands. The reason was a damning report from the National Ombudsman about the way in which this Brabant coffee shop owner and his Thai wife had been driven by the Netherlands into the hands of the Thai judiciary. The consequences were disproportionate, the explanation of the OM 'not credible'. And the whole course of things 'careless'. The Public Prosecution Service has simply framed the two, in the context of its own investigation in which there was too little progress. The couple received prison sentences of 103 and 18 years in prison, of which they have to serve 20 and 12 respectively.
In itself it is good that The Hague, at the highest political level, is concerned about the fate of Dutch prisoners abroad. It could also do that more often – Grapperhaus is setting a precedent with this mission, in a case of which a Dutch judicial error formed the core. Grapperhaus also meets an explicit wish of the House of Representatives with its mission.
However, the Breda case officers see this as 'political interference' in an individual criminal case. After all, the main suspect, together with others in the Netherlands, is still suspected of money laundering, tax evasion and membership of a criminal organization. Grapperhaus could jeopardize a settlement of no less than 20 million euros with them. And by forfeiting the means of pressure that the Public Prosecutor has – their detention – purely for humanitarian reasons. Whether the minister wants to keep aloof until the 20 million are received. The question then is: may the State indeed use a foreign prison sentence established through manipulation to buy off a prosecution here? That's foul play followed by blackmail. It makes the earlier blunder of the Public Prosecution Service worse, because the State now wishes to profit from previously reprehensible behavior.
This also concerns the relationship between the minister and the Public Prosecution Service. Is the Public Prosecution Service part of the independent judiciary over which the minister only has a budgetary say? Or a special executive organization under democratic control, with a minister who can give general instructions. And in individual cases may also legally intervene, whereby all kinds of legal guarantees must prevent political interference. This power does indeed exist, but is rarely, if ever, used. Grapperhaus' mission is therefore constitutionally and politically delicate.
The dissatisfaction comes from the workplace, the public prosecutor's office in Breda, which, incidentally, quickly announced after the commotion that it was not at all 'displeased', despite 'what some media claim'. The fact that the President of the Board of Prosecutors General has also remained silent indicates that this issue has quickly been stifled. A debate about the question of how independent the Public Prosecution Service is, or should be, is always interesting, but it needs a better reason than this one. Grapperhaus is stronger here and also operates within the law. After the sharp judgment of the Ombudsman, a more modest attitude could have been expected from the Public Prosecution Service. It was therefore hastily accomplished. Grapperhaus can now show what he can achieve in Bangkok.
Source: https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2019/08/23/grapperhaus-mag-laten-zien-wat-hij-in-bangkok-kan-bereiken-a3970883