'The Netherlands too strict for expats with a foreign partner'
The rules that State Secretary Fred Teeven of Justice once devised to combat marriages of convenience are too strict and too rigid. There are Dutch people with one foreign partner the brunt of this, warns D66 MP Gerard Schouw.
He thinks that this also makes working abroad unattractive, because expats who want to return to the Netherlands with a foreign partner run up against a wall of rules. One of them is the income guarantee. For example, a foreign partner was not allowed to enter the Netherlands because she had too little income. It concerned an amount of € 6,08 per month. Schouw wants the rules to be applied more flexibly and that a number of those bureaucratic rules disappear.
Due to the current strict rules, a few hundred Dutch people cannot return to the Netherlands with their foreign partner. The D66 MP asks for more customization to prevent individual cases from falling victim to the current rules, which are too strict. The result may be that fewer expats want to go abroad.
Yesterday, the House of Representatives discussed proposals on how to improve family reunification for expats.
Source: BNR.nl
D66 wrote to me in 2011 and 2012 on behalf of Mr Schouw that they did not want any further tightening of the rules, although the party program did mention the 120% income requirement, which had already been reversed by the court to 100% minimum wage. They also wrote that they still had to think about the sustainability requirement (income guaranteed for the next 365 days) because they naturally wanted some certainty. Finally, they wrote that the implementation of the rules for family reunification between Member States of the European Union must be harmonized extensively.
Strangely enough, therefore, not by making the EU Directive 2004/38/EC on the free movement of EU citizens with their non-EU partners also apply to Dutch people in the Netherlands: income requirement is simply the requirement to be able to (subsist) on one's own resources provided.
This is a short summary in my words when I mailed with D2011 and some other parties in 2012-66. I was quite surprised that D66 did not just want to apply the EU directive and that the current requirements and civic integration obligation (abroad and domestic) were fine with it.
I have e-mails from other parties ready at once, those from D66 were a few e-mails back and forth, which fortunately showed that they were open to exchanges of ideas/brainstorming.
Green Left wrote:
For marriage migrants, we think it's the same
income test should apply as for EU citizens. There will be an integration requirement in the Netherlands instead of abroad, as well as a training programme: admitted partners will, if they do not yet have a basic qualification for the labor market, undergo a tailor-made training
to follow. A form of student finance can be applied for for the training costs. ”
The Labor Party wrote:
“The income requirement is also going up, as is the age requirement. I really don't think that's possible. I think it is right that the Netherlands wants a guarantee that the Dutch partner can support his foreign partner. After all, the Netherlands, rightly so, does not want people to come here and then claim our social security. That is also blocked, which you don't seem to think is unjustified if I read it correctly. However, this is not possible without a strict income requirement that is based on a sustainable income, at the minimum wage level.”
The CDA wrote:
“The CDA supports those rules and the measures proposed in the coalition agreement. We believe this is necessary to ensure that people come to the Netherlands well prepared and can ultimately find an independent and full place in Dutch society.”
Rob V.,
Man, you must be glad you got an answer at all.
Not that they can do anything with it, but they made the effort.
D66 – income requirement, think about 365 days – family reunification must be harmonised.
Green Left: marriage migrants – same income requirement, but you can apply for a student grant right away.
PvdA – do agree that a guarantee is given that the Dutch partner can support the foreign partner.
I'm sorry, can I go crazy for a second?
So, got rid of it.
As soon as a Turkish or Moroccan nationality arrives, they will be standing in front of the counter in no time to apply for benefits, a cozy flat, also some nice furniture, TV, etc., is only normal to have this.
The Dutchman may not reject a designated home, but the above nationalities 3 times or more.
Next to someone we helped, so no monkey business story.
CDA – they really don't say anything do they?
I think that the real Dutchman, who takes his/her husband/wife to the Netherlands, takes better care of it than what the above parties do.
They usually have real estate in their own country, which is maintained by the Dutch government.
And when woman 3 or 4 also comes to the Netherlands, yes, she also needs things.
Once the Netherlands really thought about it and thought that a lot of twins were being born in a certain region.
When I read this of myself, it sounds pretty racist.
But this is one of the heaviest financial stumbling blocks, which brings the Netherlands to its knees and where the hatchet must be taken.
After that, one should tackle Brussels and Strasbourg.
If this happens, the older people in the Netherlands, who are now being pinched on all sides, will at least also have a nice old age.
uh, just thinking about my own age.
So I belong to that too.
LOUISE
Of course I am glad that I received reactions, also from others: SP, SGP, CU and with some effort also from the VVD. Only the PVV never responded.
The current partner migration requirement is that as a sponsor (Dutch partner) you must earn 100% minimum wage on a full-time basis (around 1450 euros gross). That is considered enough for a normal family. That is why the judge forbade the 120%, if 100% is considered enough to make ends meet, then also for families with a foreigner (foreign partner). This income must also be “sustainable”, i.e. a contract for 365 days at the time of application and not a day less. Not a cent less, by the way. In practice you can get into trouble with this: contracts that run too short, a few euros too little, a large but fluctuating income (ZZPers for example) etc. People don't pay attention to that. One could demand from the EU that the requirement is that you have a sufficient income, and that this is sufficient as long as you do not make disproportionate demands on the state.
As a marriage migrant, you cannot currently receive social assistance etc. More precisely: that is possible if your income is insufficient, but that is also grounds for the IND to withdraw the residence permit, as a result of which you have to leave (whether or not forced) to the country of origin. Family migrants are also not given (priority) for a rental home or furniture. Asylum seekers do get priority after they have been recognized as refugees. Although many people have a hard time distinguishing between asylum seekers and family migration (foreign partner with a Dutch or foreign partner here in the Netherlands).
In recent years, about 15% of Turks, Moroccans, etc. have had a partner come over from their country of origin. More than half of the import lovers join a native Dutch person. The image of 2, 3, 4 import brides is largely a fable of PVV members Sietse Fritsma. That happened sporadically all those years, about 10-20 times since 1996 I say from memory, I can't find the report I wrote it in after half an hour of searching.
The average partner with a foreign love can manage just fine and is therefore no threat to the Netherlands. The nonsensical integration requirement and income requirement could be a bit more effective: if you live here, your partner/family can come, provided you can provide for yourself. Social assistance is already not allowed, but you could refuse it in advance. And to prevent benefits from lazy bank sitters, you can make language (for most sectors Dutch) a requirement to demonstrate that you are actively looking for a job yourself (own income), so that someone who cannot blame themselves cannot find a job. also do not catch social support.
Few parties are able to understand that you can get rid of all those migration rules, and that you can make the social safety net more resistant to fraud/laziness for everyone (whether you are a migrant or a native). etc. D66, PvdA, VVD, CDA etc. still think too much from the perspective of a migrant as a potential problem/gesture that should therefore be imposed with many rules, even if this causes normal families of Dutch people with a foreign partner to stumble.
GL sees that nonsense again, but wants to set up a patronizing training program that not everyone needs. If a 30-40-50 year old Thai comes here, does he have to learn about the Dutch labor market? I don't think so if she and her Dutch partner do not burden anyone else socially or financially. Anyway, migrants who come now do have to complete a patronizing “labor module” portfolio. Nothing to do if you just want to live here as a Dutchman with your foreign partner and one of them chooses to become a housewife/husband while the other one works. Or maybe the partner is no longer working and is enjoying a nice pension, if the two of you manage that, that's fine too, isn't it? I get the jitters of all those "well-intentioned" rules that Dutch citizens and their foreign partners put sticks between the spokes. All due largely to delusions or political opportunism.
Source: http://www.scp.nl/Publicaties/Alle_publicaties/Publicaties_2014/Huwelijksmigratie_in_Nederland
D66 in emails with Schouw in 2011, written by his assistant):
“As far as we are concerned, 120% is a considerable, but fair, requirement. The underlying idea is to prevent newcomers from being dependent on benefits from the start, because they (or their partners) cannot provide for themselves. This is a different consideration than setting conditions for entitlement to benefits. That does not alter the fact that in some cases this requirement can have a complicating effect, for example also for self-employed persons with an irregular income. This is a point of attention.”
I responded to that that there were several other groups that have problems theoretically obtaining "sufficient and sustainable" income, while in fact they are self-sufficient and are a threat to the state treasury. To that I got the answer:
“Your concerns about the income requirement are clear to me. However, I don't have a ready answer for this. In response to a subsequent debate, it might be an idea to have contact again about this and to 'breed' a little further, if that sounds like you.”
The foreign and domestic exam was/is not against D66. I also had contact with Eelco Keij, D66 candidate for the House of Representatives, an expat in the US. He was more aware of getting stuck in theoretical rules, requirements and duties. Whether you are an expat or a Dutchman in the Netherlands, that both get stuck in “well-intentioned rules to keep out the hopeless” I thought D66 was a bit too much in line with CDA, VVD, etc. that all those rules are really necessary. Or do they now see the light that things can be done a little less with those regulations without resulting in ghettos of benefit-seeking, non-Dutch speaking neighborhoods full of underprivileged immigrants?
Don't open my mouth.
There is - dare I say - not an Asian with benefits walking around in the Netherlands.
My wife speaks Thai, Cambodian, Lao, Chinese AND English fluently. Unfortunately, she is functionally illiterate due to the war in Cambodia. The Dutch, however, do not really want to go into it.
We live 300 km. from Bangkok, it is impossible to “integrate abroad” .
In short: she is not allowed to come to the Netherlands.
Our son (Dutch passport!) and I are very sad about that.
I feel for you jasper but I won't let it go I'll throw it in court even if I have to go to the highest never give up love my wife and that's it.
In 2012, February 28, I was called back to assist my mother because she contracted Alzheimer's disease, my wife from Thailand is going to integrate with Richard vd Kief, twice 6 weeks of integration, 1 ABC course and failed twice because the statements were not good are enough, cost a total of 4000 euros
Savings on can't go back to thailand because I don't meet the 40,000 bath requirement and mother can't be admitted because she doesn't have the correct CIZ indication.
Well there you are with your good intentions also married before the Dutch law everything is finished and life destroyed by the Dutch government, so 400 euros for a woman in Thailand because she has now been out of work for 45 years because she is too old, the remainder of the WAO amount 1055 euros to assist mother and soon no mother anymore because you say goodbye to your mother little by little every day and no longer a woman either because you are forced to divorce. I can't figure out what's happening to me.
MVG Fpc vd Einden.
I would like to point out that the “Belgium route” still exists.
This means: go and live in another European country for six months with your foreign partner. (provided, of course, that your finances allow it) That country may not refuse you and your partner. After those six months you can return to the Netherlands with your partner and the Netherlands may no longer refuse you. For complete information, see the website 'buitenlandsepartner.nl'.
That is therefore Directive/Directive 2004/38. If you are self-reliant with your income, that will suffice. UN a language test may not be spoken. If they were to apply that rule EU-wide, so also for Dutch people in the Netherlands, you would have European harmonization. However, an EU country may impose stricter requirements on citizens in its own country unless they have exercised their right of free movement. According to the EU Court (O & B v. Netherlands, early 2014), 3 months of actual residence in another Member State is sufficient. The Netherlands doesn't care about that and states that the actual exercise of your right only applies when you return after at least 6 months in another EU country.
Incidentally, less than 2-3% of family migrants are Belgian route goers, a few years ago there was total panic with urgent debate in parliament, parliamentary questions in the Netherlands and Belgium, etc.
- https://zoek.officielebekendmakingen.nl/h-tk-20082009-4007-4026.html
- https://zoek.officielebekendmakingen.nl/blg-47827
The Belgium/EU route is a good option for expats and emigrants returning to the Netherlands with their foreign partner. By living in another EU country with the married or long-term partner for at least 3 (the IND now says, contrary to the EU court, 6) months. Details about this and other migrations can indeed be found on the website of the Foreign Partner Foundation.
My wife (Thai and has lived in the Netherlands for 25 years) had to come to a mandatory meeting of the municipality as a 62 year old. There were about 30 other guests. A blah blah story about a compulsory integration and language course. Later in a conversation with an official the same story and a comment that if she spoke the language better she could find work quickly. Then I took over and said she had been working at a department store for 12 years. Still she had to learn Dutch, when I asked what would happen if she didn't, the answer was that she has to go back. I said that I would then file a lawsuit against the municipality. Never heard anything again!
In addition to the argument of work, it was also said that it was also easy for groceries, well on the market and the supermarket she can find what she wants perfectly and in the often visited tokos they speak Thai or Chinese, which my wife also speaks . (2 dialects)