Again demonstrations and unrest in Bangkok
Thai parliament speaker Somsak Kiatsuranont has suspended debate on the reconciliation process 'until further notice' after PAD supporters (yellow shirts) and a group of multi-colored shirts blocked access to parliament. It has been restless in the Thai capital for three days.
The debate on the reconciliation process is meant to calm down Thailand so that the population can continue to live in an atmosphere of harmony. Since 2005, the Southeast Asian country has been very unsettled, with the provisional highlights being the occupation of Suvarnabhumi airport (November 2008) and the military evacuation of the business center of Bangkok (May 2010), which killed dozens of redshirts.
Frustration with Thaksin
Demonstrators blocked the only access road to the parliament out of frustration because parliament speaker Somsak (Pheu Thai) keeps pushing forward certain bills.
According to the protesters and the Democratic Party, these proposals are only intended to allow fugitive former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra to return to Thailand. The yellow and multicolored shirts have been demonstrating in the Thai capital for three days now.
Meanwhile, the ruling party Pheu Thai has taken the first steps to impeach four Democratic MPs because they had behaved 'inappropriately' towards chairman Somsak.
In addition, the Pheu Thai party is collecting evidence that MP Rangsima had called on the protesters to storm the parliament. If Prime Minister Yingluck's ruling party manages to prove it, it could lead to the dissolution of the Democratic Party.
That will never work. No judge would dream of setting such a precedent, as the Red Shirts reduced the entire downtown area to a warzone two years ago and the PT is the mouthpiece of the Red Shirts. If a judge is stupid enough to order the dissolution of the Democrats, a civil war will ensue.
Now what is the overall goal of the reconciliation process?
Is it just about Thaksin or does it serve a greater purpose?
Is it really about reconciling red and yellow after all the blood that has already been shed?
To grant amnesty to both yellow and red sympathizers?
Would that be the best option for a country that has long suffered from discord?
I hope people come out and put personal interests aside, because Thailand is a wonderful country to live in and I think the population wants nothing more than to live in peace with each other.
What strikes me is that I still haven't received any answers to my questions..
Is there anyone who would seriously consider these questions?
You want to answer okay that's possible but they are of course my personal ideas.
The goal: Power for PT, it seems that is for everyone, but a reconciliation process should be based on equality. This is out of the question
Thaksin: It has been made clear that PT Thaksin wants to return. So there is no greater goal and the current PT politicians probably think they are well rewarded for this by Thaksin.
Reconciling red and yellow: impossible!! Even in Europe that is not possible, left and right continue to disagree. You should know this!
Amnesty: Here too I suspect that this was brought to everyone and with that it could also apply to Thaksin.
Discord: Will always be there, will no longer be good in my opinion.
Thailand is great to live in but that can also be the south of France and maybe there are more countries where life is good but that is everyone's own perception and we all want to live in peace but unfortunately there are also a lot of nasty people in this world round. Sad but true.
Not really reassuring, apparently sooner or later I will have to consider exploring Cambodia or Bali as a possible option for long-term residence in my older years….
@Dirk,
do not worry. If this scenario threatens to take place, we will first have a coup. Deja vu all over. Nothing will ever change in this beautiful country.
@ cor,
You can't say it better, and we shouldn't make it better!
“Nothing will ever change in this beautiful country” you write. You still need to pick up a history book and become aware of the changes in Thailand over the past 100-200 years, many favorable, some less favorable, politically, socially and economically. But maybe you want to limit yourself to the last 10 years and then I tell you that monumental changes have taken place in those years. From passive voting cattle, the Thais have, on average, risen to a reasonably informed and active role in politics and other fields. The choices they make and the speed at which the changes take place may not always be the way you or I would like it to be, but there is definitely a different wind blowing that will pay off in the next 10-20 years. Awareness and struggle precede concrete and sustainable changes.
@Dear Shallow, (pun intended)
You have not understood a word, and I can also see that you do not work in Thai education, work with Thais or are otherwise forced to keep your ears and eyes open.
FYI, Thailand is a crypto feudal society. The country is governed by roughly 150 wealthy, influential families, who have their tentacles in politics, the military and business. That other wind that blows, which you have left, comes from the same direction from which that wind has always blown, namely from the wealthy family corner. I assume you are a Thaksin supporter, because only Falang Thaksin followers can pen such ignorance.
Let's start at the beginning and that is the Thai education system, because that is at the root of all the problems the country has, and the huge income inequality that prevails.
1. No government has attempted drastic education reform in the last 20 years. In other words, Thai children are still subjected to a highly nationalistic memorization regime, where there is no room for independent thinking, criticizing the state. the system and society as it exists.
What is the purpose of this undermining of progress in education by politicians? They understand all too well that no Thai who has learned to think is willing to work for 250 baht a day in a factory.
2. The glorious decade you are talking about, in which the standard of living and purchasing power of the average Thai has fallen by 22 percent (World Bank info) and the overall income gap has increased by 40 percent. To illustrate: In 1999, 34 percent of all Thai owned 80 percent of all there is to own (assets) and in 2011 that was 22 percent who owned 81 percent of all there is to own The remaining 78 percent have to make do with the 19 percent crumbs.
I don't know where you get those figments from, but you are "ill-informed" to say the least and brainwashed to say the least in a Red Village.
Interesting Cor, and I largely agree with you. Indeed, all misery begins with a lack of education. How do you see the development of the Internet in this regard? The poor Thais are also better informed nowadays due to technological developments, and they also see what is 'for sale' nowadays. Arab states here soon?
What about ASEAN 2015? I can hardly imagine that the Singaporeans in particular will have a lot of patience with all this Thai nonsense. I think there will be demands.
In addition, we can also expect another event in the near future that will send a shock wave through Thai society.
Nothing will ever change? Mmm, I don't know. But I'm curious how you see this!
@Kees,
I think the Thais should start learning to look in the mirror and develop healthy self-criticism. Many Thais see Thailand as the center of the universe and have very long toes when criticism comes from an unexpected angle about abuses and bizarre developments in Thai society. This self-criticism is completely absent in education. Problems are not recognized and therefore never solved. History classes in Thailand are a masterclass in history falsification and nationalism and students who question certain things are invariably maligned by the teacher (and fellow students). Such an educational climate is aimed at preserving the status quo, at consolidating the power structures.
As for the near future, I can't possibly be optimistic. When the parties are at each other's throats in the House of Commons over a law aimed at bringing about national reconciliation / amnesty for Thaksin (you can choose yourself 😉 then you can only conclude that these MPs are there for themselves first and foremost The welfare of the people is more of an afterthought And as long as the masses are kept ignorant and easy to please with gifts, instead of being smart enough to see through the empty promises and lies of politicians .
Here and there readers of the BP are already talking about an impending civil war. Foreign investors are allergic to civil wars. Should a coup thwart any civil war, foreign investors are also allergic to coups. All in all, we are currently in a lose-lose situation unless Thaksin disappears from the scene altogether, but that chance is nil.
As far as ASEAN 2015 is concerned, the Thais are not ready for that in my opinion (Indonesia is not ready either). I think you're right about Singapore, and maybe Malaysia as well. Those countries will have little patience with a country where politicians behave like toddlers and where the education system has been stuck for decades at the level of the XNUMXs, not to mention the ever-widespread corruption.
All in all, Kees, no, it's not a pretty picture.
Completely agree I am married to a Thai woman has two sons from her previous marriage but son 1 is 24 years old is lying on the sofa with grandmother and does not see why he should work Grandma paid food and drink? The second son went to university in Bangkok and graduated as one of the best. Now going to malaysia but can hardly follow, says the level is much higher than thailand.
Dear Cor,
Your first sentence is again very personal, you like to do that when you disagree with someone, and you are completely wrong. I speak and write Thai fluently, have completed a 3 year high school diploma through extracurricular Thai education, my son attended a regular Thai school for 6 years and I taught English for 2 years and am now studying for the last three years of secondary education. And I am not a Thaksin supporter.
I was responding to your comment that nothing ever changes in Thailand.
1. Thai education is exactly as you describe it. I've read all my son's history books, it sucks. But do you really think that the majority of pupils and students take all that for granted? Come on. They certainly see the differences between what is presented to them at school and what reality has to offer them. To name just two examples, how do you think the Russian Revolution and the Arab Spring came about? The indoctrination there was even worse than here. You underestimate the thinking capacity and sense of reality of your students and of the Thai people in general.
2. Go to http://www.tradingeconomics.com. The Gini index for Thailand was 45 in the eighties, in the nineties 46 and now 42 (the lower the less inequality in income), equal to the US, but much too high (the Netherlands has a Gini index of 30) but income inequality in Thailand has decreased since the tactier years.
The same website also indicates that the income of the 20% highest incomes of the 20s has fallen slightly so far and that of the lowest XNUMX% has risen slightly. The numbers you quoted just don't add up
I agree with you that Thailand is a mess in many areas, but I don't agree with you that it is a hopeless situation, or that nothing ever changes or will ever change.
@Chaliow and Cor.
In itself a good discussion in which I felt a lot for Cor emotionally. In response, however, Chaliow gives well-founded arguments and important; in a calmer tone. If Cor leaves out his slightly too personal heated comments, these pieces will help us. For me the truth is in the middle.
Of course the situation is slowly changing but education remains something desperate. My daughter attends a private school, but even there I get the feeling that science subjects are treated fairly, but initiative and thinking are not really appreciated.
I do my very best to teach her to stop herd thinking at home, but I have to be careful that she doesn't lose contact with friends because of this. So you are pretty helpless.
In the public schools where friends' children attend, it is even worse. Education is of abysmal quality.
Even worse is that a place in high school has to be bought all the time. Despite excellent entrance exams, available places have become increasingly scarce in recent weeks, as benevolent parents secured a place for their less intelligent children with a “voluntary” contribution of 50.000 baht or more. Open and naked with mediation and at the suggestion of the previous school who knows someone at the next school.
My friend, father of a 15-year-old son, did not want to participate in this game, had his son take extra lessons and take the entrance exam, passed and was also admitted among the best. (unfortunately no place for the slightly less good candidates because too many places were sold). Teachers from the old school not happy, even offended that Dad had not participated in the usual system of buying places. Now they had lost face (and missed their share of the transfer fee?)
In addition, you can read in the 2 English-language newspapers that an amount of up to half a million baht is being discussed for admission to universities. Officially, these contributions from rich parents would therefore also benefit children of poor parents.
The reactions speak of the “red villages” I live in such a red village. It hurts how simple most people are, how with 200-500 baht before each election they can be convinced to vote for a certain person. Who if he wins then later has to ensure that he gets back his invested money, preferably a little more, through twisted detours.
With the exception of a few, many elected administrators will spend the next few years taking care of their own skin and wallet with nothing else.
Everyone openly agrees with this system, just as the majority of Thais in official circle say they have no problem with corruption because it makes life easier and they always hope to get to the right place themselves, where they have the power and have the corresponding income.
Dear Challow,
First of all, my apologies for my nasty comment. Wasn't necessary for anything.
I also know that Gini Index. I have my figures from the World Bank (I can't find the link at the moment), but even if Gini's figures were correct and there was indeed a slight leveling off, it would rather be the result of the economic growth of recent decades , than of a government policy aimed at somewhat closing the gap between rich and poor. In other words, the rich in Thailand have become twenty times richer and the poor a little less poor because of the 'trickle down' effect. I put it a bit simple, but that's what it comes down to.
You further state that things have indeed changed for the better in this country. For example, is Thailand less corrupt? Certainly not (see Ferdinand's story above). Have politicians and other administrators become more aware of the environment? Far from it, one environmentally destructive mega project after another is launched all for the glory of economic growth that ultimately only benefits a handful of people. Is there hope for an improved education system with opportunities for all? Not at all (See Ferdinand's story, a story I can confirm, I've been working in Thai education for ten years and see those practices happening right under my nose)
All in all Challow, I see little perspective, especially in light of the power struggle that is now taking place, which shows that the current politicians have little interest in the development of Thailand. The vast majority of politicians in Thailand are in politics for power and the marbles. That's it.
Sincerely,
heart
Dear Cor,
I appreciate you apologizing. Let's forget about it.
I think we are actually largely in agreement about the current situation in Thailand. Where we differ is my feeling, and I can substantiate this with arguments, that there is indeed change, especially of more awareness, and you wrongly interpret that opinion as a hymn to Thailand and Thaksin. I will give an example of that awareness. In recent years, a number of people (from top to bottom) have given me a blatant and harsh assessment of a particular institution, for which they would end up in prison for several years if done publicly. When I asked them, they said that many felt that way. That's an advantage of my Thai. And all that political unrest fits right into my argument of (OK, potential) change. And, again, the form and content of Thai education are very lagging behind, but that determines only a part (say 25%) of learning outcomes and even less of political or economic opinion.
Challow, send me an email, This is an interesting discussion but I would like to be able to speak freely in that discussion. This blog is on the radar and if not, then anyway 😉
[email protected]
See you later (hopefully)
There has been little going on for 5 months now, the water level from the end of last year has subsided nicely, good economic growth so far in 2012 – it is now also time for them to start shooting themselves in the foot, of course!