Gasping for air outside the Nanny State…
Free country
When asked what Thailand now makes such a pleasant country to live in, there are many answers to come up with.” Phratet Thai' -Thailand therefore- means “land of the free people'. In a sense, that's not a misnomer.
While the thought of sending a small child to the store for a pack of butts makes many a politically correct dry fucker's soy milk squirt out through the nostrils, this is perfectly normal in Thailand.
You don't have to wear a helmet on the moped, there is no speed limit in the countryside, the signs are only there to keep up appearances, you can call behind the wheel and if you want to sell food on the street you don't have to worry that you immediately have a whole symphony orchestra of lab technicians with pipettes and petrie dishes hanging on your pants, who immediately close your shop when they find an innocent bacterial colony in the fish soup.
When you have land and you want to build a house on it, you build that house without having to work through an avalanche of paperwork first and the same goes for starting a diner.
Lighters do not have a child lock and the lid of a coffee cup does not say: "be careful, hot".
These, and countless other cases, are a demonstration of the absence of excessive government interference in people's lives. The forest of rules that you find in many Western countries, the Netherlands in the lead, in almost all cases produces a new kind of person: “Homo Frustratus”.
The frustration not only stems from the daily struggle with rules, prohibitions and regulations that people have to contend with, but also the feeling of being treated like a small child by the government.
Now you, loyal, critical reader, may object: yes, but many of those rules and laws are in the interest of all of us, aren't they? Without those rules it would be a mess, wouldn't it?
Is that right?
When the government assumes that people cannot think for themselves, cannot decide for themselves to put on a helmet before getting on a motorcycle, then I suspect that government has contempt for the people.
Let the government deal with issues such as poverty reduction, environmental issues and finally abolish those backward armies, so that we no longer have to send nineteen-year-old children to dustbins to shove our rule cousin democracy down the throats of the residents.
So, now for a 'watch out, cold' beer...
Cor, beautiful the way you put it.
Just the thought of ever ending up in NL again makes me nervous.
I can already see it for me, landing at Schiphol but no public transport card!
What now ?
Ah ! There is a junkie, let's see if he knows 1 bicycle for 1 tenner, he also needs his daily portion of vitamins.
For 25 euros he has 1 offer with gear without lock.
Go to 1 town hall to register, there they will give you the address of the Salvation Army because you have no permanent home or residence.
On the way 1 more ticket because the fender is not 30 cm white.
Once outside, cycle away.
You'd go back anyway...
Pim,
The above story written by you regularly appears in my nightmares 😉
Nicely written Cor, Can follow you, but the Netherlands also has its advantages.
That with the child lock on the lighters is a nice one, I had one with me last year.
A number of lighters had already suddenly disappeared from the barmaids.
But the one with child lock was put back every time, they didn't understand it, thought it was funny.
Good joke, really great! LOL 😉
Yes and then you should see those faces every time I cheerfully lit a new puff, or that they went to the back with 2 or 3 women and were fidgeting to get that thing going, never had so much fun for so little money.
Who treats who here like a small child???
Oh Robert, isn't he just funny, by the way, I lost my lighter later when I had explained it to them, so I must have been a small child then
Good article Cor. The regulatory burden is a real problem. We are now also getting more and more rules from Brussels. The MEPs are bored to death and use the time they have left after filling out declaration forms to come up with fun things for European citizens. Fresh off the press. They want all European citizens to wear an orange vest on their bicycles. Then we are more visible in traffic. hahaha……
The fact that no one follows the rules, and that only at the end of the month when the agents have empty the household exchange, some kind of enforcement will take place, can be very pleasant for anyone who cares about rules and safety. I cycle through Bangkok every day and it is true that cyclists in Thailand do not appear in the traffic regulations. That means they have no rights either. From this I conclude that I have no obligations. And yes! I drive against the traffic on a one-way street without lights at night. Uncle cop stands by, looks at it and smiles. Very handy, but that does not alter the fact that the Thai government treats its citizens like underage children. And that's not just my opinion, but Voranai Vanijaka, journalist from the Bangkok Post, thinks so too. Read his article in the newspaper of June 6, 2011. Here's a quote. Unfortunately only in English, but it won't be a problem for most. After all, English is the second official language in Thailand. The patronage system is deeply ingrained in our cultural psyche. The government is the parent. The people are the children. Most importantly, the system is corrupt by its very nature. (Or some might say, it's a relationship between a dirty old man and a gold-digging jezebel. Have it however you like it.)
The parent naturally has a fascist tendency to demand that the child not do this, not to do that. No tattoos. Don't dance topless. Don't play internet games. Don't drink on religious holidays. Don't watch this. Don't listen to that. Blah and blah and blah.
Hence the Thai government comes to be well practiced in the art of censoring freedom.
The child, like any child, rebellious _ subconsciously or otherwise. The zebra crosswalk is 20m to the left. The overpass is five meters to the right. But the child is going to jump the fence and run right through traffic to cross the street.
Red lights mean stop, so the child will stop for about 30 seconds. Any longer and the child will look to his left and to his right. If he thinks he can get away with it without being flattened by oncoming traffic making a turn, he will step on the gas pedal _ and 50 other motorbikes will do the same.
I
Haha, nice those one-liners and wisecracks. But you know that freedom for one brings with it limitation for the other. I'll be concerned if people without helmets kill themselves; the problem is that children who are transported are the victims in accidents, not to mention family who have to take care of the injured and/or disabled person. Then we are not even talking about the social costs. Freedom in responsibility, that's what it's all about. And that is sometimes hard to find in Thailand.
The golden mean is the best. Here in NL/Europe they are going crazy. I'm not going to cycle with an orange vest, really not!!
But wearing orange to a football match? And what if you had small children? They are more visible with such a vest and are less likely to be involved in a collision.
In Germany they want to make it compulsory for children to wear a helmet, and in Germany it is also the case that a handbrake is required.
@ Hans, your comparison is flawed. A football match is a choice and not everyone does that. What you ignore is the citizen's own responsibility, as Cor also wrote. There are also children's bicycles with such an orange flag on a long antenna. This is not mandatory, but parents choose it themselves. Also applies to a helmet for children on a bicycle.
Can I still decide something myself or should the government decide everything? It looks like the Eastern Bloc.
You can decide everything yourself, provided you do not infringe on the rights of others. I continue to believe that the government should stand up for the rights of the weakest. Otherwise it will look a bit too much like Thailand.
The Eastern Bloc has now been lifted, and you see what happened there afterwards…..
That does not alter the fact that I share your opinion regarding the sometimes absurd regulations. Cutting in the dead wood can provide more visibility!
Hans Bos,
= I still believe that the government should stand up for the rights of the weakest. Otherwise it will look a bit too much like Thailand.=
At sometime!
To come back to the orange vest. What is really dangerous is cycling without lights in the dark. Yet half of the Netherlands does. The police do not check and fine because they are busy with other matters.
If you are unable to enforce the most essential traffic and safety rules, why introduce new ones?
Thailand needs better education and more information. That is a better protection of the 'weakest' in society than just laws and regulations that are not implemented anyway.
After the second ticket, you're going to do that, really!
Hans, it is actually a column and intended to loosen the tongues (keys). It is striking, judging by the reactions so far, that many people also feel that the regulations that have gone too far -nice term, as if you "get" something from the government instead of being imposed on it.
Children without a helmet on a moped. When I see that I always have to swallow. However, I am in favor of government education. PO Box 51 style clips about the dangers of alcohol, driving without a helmet, etc, etc. But I think the responsibility ultimately rests with you.
Government information, but also enforcement. I remain of the opinion that in Thailand you should not place the responsibility for the well-being of children solely with the parents.
Once again 😉
Yet it is the "shortcomings" of this country that make it so fascinating to live there. The (apparent) chaos in Bangkok. that ensures that you are surprised about something every day. There are also many negative sides to Thai society, but this article was not about that.
Yes, that's easy to say as a Dutchman who knows what's going on, partly due to having enjoyed (an education subsidized by the NL government). Then you have the benefits, but not so much the burden, of few regulations, and you can make conscious choices. For example, you know that not wearing a helmet entails a higher risk. Believe it or not, the average Thai just doesn't understand that. You have had normal driving training, that Thai has not – you know how it works here. It is easy to live in Thailand as long as you have a Western/developed background, keep that in mind as well. Then it is a bit easier to think too, plenty of examples in Thailand that thinking is not exactly a national sport here.
Should you just let someone who has no idea about hygiene, due to a lack of such education, just start a restaurant? And, because you allow the government to interfere in environmental issues, is the government allowed to control where the garbage from that eatery is dumped (in some areas often a pure mafia business)? And speaking of the environment, what if someone spontaneously wants to start a clothes dry cleaning business? Regulations or not?
I also have little contact with the Netherlands and its often absurd rules, and even less with the Dutch government. But your article is very short sighted. But for the average farang who lives here it is good farming, I agree with you! With regard to how to find the ideal size, the truth lies in the middle.
Finally…something went wrong above:
'With regard to how you should organize the ideal society, the truth lies more in the middle.'
It highlights the reasons why it is pleasant to be here. Your comment that this applies more to educated Westerners and that the Thais are too retarded to put on a helmet, I call that short-sighted. When I take a cup of coffee with me and the lid says "be careful hot" then I'm seen as a complete moron, aren't I?
The excessive government interference in the daily lives of ordinary people and the resulting frustrations is what this article is about. And your comment that “the Thai has no idea (read: is moron) is the most short-sighted comment I've read in a long time.
That cup of coffee has nothing to do with patronizing, but with the prevention of lawsuits, especially in the USA. Indeed, I agree with you.
We can discuss for a long time what a Thai does or does not realize. The fact is that in Thailand a lot of people die unnecessarily in traffic due to ill-considered kamikaze actions that are much less common in a more developed and regulated country. It indicates that in certain areas regulation can indeed contribute something to society.
By the way, I am still eagerly awaiting your concrete solutions to the questions in my 2nd paragraph. 😉
I don't have concrete solutions, but the irony is that they don't exist in the Netherlands either.
We are all looking for those "concrete" solutions, but due to a forest of rules, solutions are becoming less and less "concrete" 😉
Also don't forget that there are many unwritten rules in Thailand and with very rigid social structures, adjustment is expected from other sides than the government known to us. Not that the average farang is interested in that one jerk, if he has any awareness of it at all. The freedom as we experience it here is something different than that a (poor) Thai experiences it.
Then you automatically end up with the huge gap between rich and poor. Thailand is a country where, when you are rich, you are more or less above the law, for example when you drive a motorcyclist to smithereens with your Mercedez. The Benzer had a sip and will receive a 1-year suspended prison sentence and pay 100.000 baht compensation to the grieving relatives. (so a tip)
Everyday things in the Thai news. While every political party promises to improve the lot of the poor Thais during the elections, in practice, after the elections, this never really happens. How did that happen?
Feed for two hundred articles and columns 😉
It has also become clear in Thailand that this is not possible, in Udon Thani people are obliged to wear a helmet, even those sitting on the back, if not a ticket. I have seen signs along the highway with the 2 sec rule. Keep your distance.
Oh, rules, what would the Netherlands look like without rules.
And in Udon Thani itself, a weekly police raid is held on these non-helmet wearers.
What I see when I'm there is a daily check. It's just as well.
I think it's a nice story, but the reactions are even more fun, but there are definitely rules in Thailand, but are not observed by the people themselves, helmet obligation certainly is, only for driver, kids have already had a ticket twice.
Then building my house, now I really had to discuss everything first, and first came to check, and the house was ready, handing in many photos, ignoring traffic rules.
Are the people responsible themselves, but indifferent and (dumb ) think it is in the difference of entity. But don't want to trade it for Holland, living and being lived is a big difference.
Not wearing a helmet is normal in Chiangmai. Sometimes checks are held and after paying the fine, people happily drive on without a helmet.
I noticed that one is located in Cambodia. much stricter adheres to the obligation to wear a helmet and therefore not one of those plastic buckets that does not prevent punctures at all in the event of an accident.
That's right Nick. In Vietnam everyone, including fellow passengers, is on the moped with a helmet. I have not seen much of the police, but if they catch you, the fine is also higher. (According to my guide at the time around B.500.) One should also do this here. Here in Huahin I now sometimes see the police chaining up the mopeds, but unfortunately it continues to fight against the ruins.
In Thailand, the government does indeed not bother to "mother" its nationals, just like in NL, but the same government ALSO does NOT make the effort to give its nationals a good education, safe roads, reliable police. But the same government DOES make the effort to ensure that the upper-class can steal and even murder.
Yes I know… I also still live here despite this. But I am afraid that it is not much different in NL, were it in different proportions.
Last week a girl drove her moped into a pothole in the road and hit her head (yes she probably drove too fast) and 3 days later she died. A friend of my wife was hit in her car and seriously injured and taken to the private hospital where they sent her away for better treatment in Chonburi. Sadly, she passed away on the way.
In NL we are so free that we can talk about anything, something that is not even allowed here on this site. Land of the free? You know a big and fat baby is often called "noi".
Chang Noi
Even more important than rules is compliance and enforcement. Laws are introduced that people know in advance that they cannot be enforced in practice.
In the Netherlands you are not allowed to smoke in the pub. That went well for a few months. Now everyone smokes in the pub again. Why? Fines too low and the chance of getting caught is nil.
Better fewer rules and strict enforcement than the current nonsense.
At sometime!! Only in Thailand do people usually laugh out loud when a new law is introduced. Enforcement is non-existent in most places. But again, my story is about patronizing - the orange vests are a good example of it…
I do indeed find it all rather short-sighted and calling someone a politically correct dry fucker who sends a child away for a pack of cigarettes is not possible at all, I do have another name for someone who would get that into his head but I like to keep it neat . Too bad, I hope this blog is not going in the wrong direction.
It's a column Angelique. Look up the meaning of 'column' and that will probably put things in a different context 😉
Thanks for another lesson.....
Great Cor , you have already had 27 comments on this article. A lot of truth and also some nonsense in the story, but for us experienced Thailand travelers and expats to enjoy
feast. Write something like that again.
At least we can think about many things.
Cor van Kampen.
Wonderfully written Cor,
You make my day, now here in Roi Et and tomorrow on to Patong, Phuket.
I think everyone would like to be free, but many will use all weapons to deny that they are not.
I've been in SE Asia for 1.5 years now and when I read the Dutch news, I often think; my God what is this about? But everywhere you go you take yourself with you.
Socially and socially free-spirited as I thought I was in the meantime, after living in Isan for 3 months in reasonable isolation, I increasingly come across my own straitjacket, determined by my background. Time to do something about that too.
Anyway, keep it up, wake people up..
I admit it is very nicely written. And you can go very far in a column. The style appeals to me and as far as I'm concerned it could have been a bit spicier. Having said that, I do want to make a comment.
I think you're pretty 'spinning' in your comments on other people's posts. It comes across as a bit slimy to me.
I want to ask you a short question. How do you feel about 'own-mindedness' in relation to the supposed rule-driven nature of the government in the Netherlands?
@ Sam Loi let's mainly limit ourselves to Thailand. An occasional reference to the Netherlands is allowed, I do that too. But please don't start a second discussion about the situation in the Netherlands
I'm not starting it. In the article – what do you mean column – the Netherlands is referred to in a rather loaded way as a kind of a rule niece. Ultimately, I would have linked back to Thailand in a comparative law report in relation to a constitutional state.
I've seen your comments. With the exception of the last one, you always include the Netherlands in the other messages. Messages from others also invariably refer to the Netherlands.
But you do pick my post for posting such a stupid comment. Too bad, but it makes you think. I'll just leave it for what it is.
It is certainly not personal. So don't worry about it too much. I try to steer it in the right direction and involve the discussion as much as possible in Thailand. But I also sometimes make mistakes in my responses, that's right. I promise to get well.
Dear Sam,
It's not "alleged rule-making." It's rule-making.
Nice story Cor first thought that you were provoking a bit to elicit reactions (well done) I agree with you that people in Europe want to over-regulate everything and that leads to chaos or civil disobedience. However, if you state that the Thai government should deal with poverty reduction and environmental issues, then unfortunately clear laws will have to be introduced. Not that the Thai will care about it, but eventually the Thai will find that you cannot solve environmental issues without rules, for example. Furthermore, I really don't feel like a moron when I have to wear a helmet. Have already skidded 2x on roads with sand and hit 2x by Thais and the helmet has prevented the necessary problems.
The dichotomy between European (over)regulation and the Thai 'mai pen lai' is of course not easy to compare. There are many things that are (in the eyes of Westerners) wrong in Thailand.
As for my 'turning' in my responses to comments, it stems from the fact that this is a very short story, in which it is impossible to put all facets of Thai society and that of Dutch potpourie next to each other in 400 words.
Imagine if that were possible? Then Thailand would resemble the Netherlands and the Netherlands resemble Thailand.
There are very sharp reactions to this blog, to which I can only say: Yes, it is. To me, and I speak only for myself, a society in which the government meddles in personal affairs in which one person's behavior has no bearing whatsoever on the well-being of another person is a pernicious development.
Why are there 'smoke poles' on the Dutch platforms, which are all open air after all? When someone on the platform right next to you lights up a butt, don't you just stand three meters away?
It is also the example function that you, as a sensible adult, are for others, especially children, so in almost all the examples mentioned in your column, there is indeed an influence on the well-being of other people. It is not cool (and also dangerous) not to wear a helmet, to smoke, to drive very fast or to make a phone call behind the wheel, just to name a few.
For example, I am glad that the government has paid so much attention to the unhealthy nature of smoking. This has made me increasingly aware of what I was doing and eventually made me stop. I and I think that many parents are very happy with the mandatory wearing of a helmet and that this has prevented a lot of suffering.
We can of course cite a huge number of examples, of course there are also rules that may be less important, but the above examples have been chosen very poorly and carelessly.
I agree with you Richard. I will now also drive many foreigners without a helmet and therefore think that it is over with the example functions. On the other hand, the Thai is indifferent and easygoing and will unfortunately not change his behavior if I, as a foreigner, do wear that helmet.
It may be hard to say but it should be 1 free choice for everyone to wear a safety belt or helmet.
Arthur will have 1 nephew in the family who had his helmet on and now needs to be cared for for the rest of his life, the family is now in trouble thanks to that helmet, otherwise he would have been dead.
Who knows, he also has an uncle who obediently wore his safety belt and ended up in the ditch with his car upside down.
Because of his weight he couldn't get it loose hanging in his belt, too bad for him now he couldn't go to the side and drowned.
It is a matter of being lucky in life where the man who has the money to buy 1 Arai helmet has a better chance than the poor man on the rice field who can just afford 1 construction workers helmet.
In the Netherlands you don't have to wear a helmet on the 25 km/h mopeds, you can easily drive sie scooters.
26 years ago I wish I had worn a seatbelt when I parked my car against a tree that was too thick.
With my head through the windshield and now an artificial eye.
May I also point out that in Thailand it is also not allowed to smoke at the BTS stations, there are not even smoke poles to make it possible.
If it is so much better in Thailand, you can still stay there, working for 100 THB per day. Ongoing corruption at all levels. It really is a paradise.
What we sometimes have too much here, I certainly agree with you, is far too little there.
Buy a driver's license? No problem.
Really ideal. It seems to me that the lack of rules, or the lack of will to apply them, is really hindering Thailand's development.
Read the section on education.
Too many rules are not good, but is anarchy the answer? I doubt it.
As a very successful column, you just have to realize that this is not a blog, although the tone of course immediately made a lot clear. 😉
What always surprises me is that when you book your trip to the next place at any tiny tourist office (and since we never stay longer than 3 to 4 nights in 1 place, we have done this hundreds of times) always everything ends up on its feet, taxis, luggage, longtail boats, air travel, hotels, you name it, everything runs smoothly and arrives neatly at the destination including ourselves, I think that's great, with such a huge amount of tourists.
I always get so rebellious when people criticize the Netherlands like that, while I myself live in Thailand most of the year and have a great time there and many things are often more relaxed than in the Netherlands.
Nevertheless, my parents brought me into the world in the Netherlands, I had a great childhood and my whole family lives here, criticizing the Netherlands so strongly is as if you label everyone who continues to live here as stupid or pathetic," here in Everything is much better in Thailand or everything is so narrow-minded in the Netherlands.” and of course it isn't. It's great if you get the chance and you also want to work in another country. can build a new life, but don't (often unjustly) criticize everything in the Netherlands, it seems to be becoming a trend. Now people will of course say that this trend comes from somewhere?, everything I want to say takes into account the people (family, perhaps children, friends) who live here and are not waiting for people living in another country very often find it necessary to criticize the Netherlands strongly (sometimes rightly but often also wrongly).
Totally agree with you Robert. Many people forget that regulations can also entail rights. Rights that a number of forum writers conveniently do not mention. By that I mean, among other things, a collective labor agreement, a pension, state pension and so on. Also all so neatly arranged for those who live in Thailand. And what are the rules in Thailand in this area and are they adhered to?
Not that the AOW or the pension provides any certainty here.
Sorry, I couldn't have worded it better.
Moreover, international research shows that the Netherlands, together with the Scandinavian countries, are among the happiest countries in the world and that Thailand is one of the happiest countries in the world. happiness score far behind. But still I reluctantly return to the Netherlands and also prefer Flanders to the Netherlands and especially Thailand. But yes, I may have easy talk with a good pension and the freedom to go where I want..
regulations in Thailand ? freedom ?
young boy….have you heard about the arrests of Farang musicians in CNX who were having fun jamming ?
no work permit.
after a lot of searching in the offices here it appears that as a freelancer you can obtain a work permit for 15 days to make music, paint, etc.
then end of story.
my exhibition at Tita Gallery in Mae Rim is not open for this reason.
gallery owner and the undersigned worried about major problems, which are then almost for my account.
Thailand locks itself in, turns its back on free exchange.
very sad how that country of the free treats foreign input.
actually I don't really know what else I can do in Thailand.
move again? new Zealand ? If I can't / shouldn't work here, there's really nothing else to do.
I wonder if more compatriots run into this problem of the immigration service?
It is better to swim with the current, they have no objection to exporting from Thailand.
I think the traffic is really ridiculously dangerous and the police really don't do anything about it. I also like to choose whether I eat in a neat or a dirty place. When I see the Taste Police on TV, I think that is really going too far.
Thailand doesn't fully realize the value that working farang can have there. The Thai should be more open to other methods, but they are not. The eldest is the wisest and the boss and you listen to that.
Quite right Cor, the interference of the government goes so far that it becomes ridiculous, but I think that the main culprit is mainly the European Union. They pretend to “worry” with humanity, but oh well….when people get older statistically, you might as well work longer.
For the record, the article below is about Thailand and not about the Netherlands
http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/investigation/193476/bangkok-cigarette-police