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Reader question: In July 2014 our son will be born in Thailand, I have some questions

By Submitted Message
Posted in Reader question
Tags:
April 10, 2014

Dear forum members, Thailand visitors,

I have a question about the birth of our son in July 2014.

My girlfriend is pregnant and I live in the Netherlands, I can just be there at the birth and stay with my girlfriend in Bangkok for another 3 months.

Now I want to recognize my own son, but that is no longer possible at the NL embassy in Bangkok, I was told that I must then recognize it at a Thai amphur or district office in Bangkok.

Now my question was whether I can also make it Dutch without being married to my partner, and whether I can apply for a passport for my son at the Dutch embassy and what papers do I need from myself and from the birth?

And suppose I can't get Dutch nationality in Thailand, is it possible to bring my own son to the Netherlands?

I am not sure how to deal with all these documents of a Thai birth certificate and which way to go.

Hoping for some helpful tips from you.

Greetings,

Robert

Number of times read: 211

21 responses to “Reader question: In July 2014 our son will be born in Thailand, I have some questions”

  1. leon says up
    10 April 2014 at 22: 33

    Your son is automatically also a Dutchman, applying for a nl passport is not too difficult if you do this before his 7th year of life. All other questions after asking the relevant authorities. I also applied for a nl passport for my son 3 years ago. was done in no time and was neatly sent to my address in Thailand. Good luck with the application and the further pregnancy.

    • Noah says up
      11 April 2014 at 03: 04

      @ Leon, with all due respect, but this kind of information is of course useless to the best man. Please explain what he needs, where he should be and what steps he has to follow. Which agency should he report to? It's not all that easy as you write it.

      @ robert. If you go to the website of the Dutch Embassy in Bangkok - products and services - you will see links again, including passports and ID proofs, you will see birth and open these links. For a passport you have to adhere to 8 points in order to obtain a Dutch passport for your child. These are clearly stated in the passport application for a child! The child must also be present at the Embassy when applying for a passport. With regard to birth abroad, you will be redirected to rijksoverheid.nl

      It is mainly paperwork and everything MUST be LEGALIZED and translated into English, stick to the indicated rules and you will not travel to the embassy for nothing, good luck!

      • leon says up
        11 April 2014 at 22: 13

        Ok was very brief information but all information is now correctly given via Tino I see

  2. Tino Kuis says up
    11 April 2014 at 06: 41

    I have a Thai/Dutch son who is now 14 years old. When he was born I was still married to his mother, but that doesn't matter much for the further procedure.
    1. The hospital where the child is born issues a birth certificate.
    2. Father and mother go together to the amphoe (town hall) where an official birth certificate is drawn up. It has the names of mother and father, place of birth, day, etc. in Thai script! (You may approach me to convert all names into Thai script). Make sure that the details of your passport are filled in correctly and completely, including the passport number. Together you choose a name for the newborn, you can also choose several names, my son's name is Anoerak Karel (Kuis), a Thai and Dutch name. I suspect you can choose either the father's or mother's last name, but I'm not sure.
    3. Official translation into English (again, make sure that the names are spelled correctly and completely!), legalization at the consular department of Foreign Affairs (Chaeng Wattana), and legalization at the Dutch Embassy, ​​and application for a Dutch passport. If the embassy does not trust it, for whatever reason, a DNA test can be done. Which papers you need at the embassy to apply for a passport can be found on their website (children's passport, for example the mother must also sign). Quite a hassle, but it went without any problem for me.

    • Tino Kuis says up
      11 April 2014 at 11: 45

      Another small addition:
      1 the birth certificate must be applied for at the town hall within 30 days. So you have time to inquire. Go to the town hall with an interpreter and ask questions, especially about number 2
      2 My son's birth certificate says "mother" and "father", not "wife" and "husband". I also don't remember having to provide proof of our marriage at the time. I searched a bit more but couldn't find anything. I think that if you both appear at the town hall and together acknowledge the child as yours, then your name will be filled in as the father, even without marriage. But I'm not 100 percent sure.

  3. They are says up
    11 April 2014 at 11: 08

    Dear Robert,

    At the moment I am also working on the application for an NL passport for my daughter.

    I was told (source: Dutch embassy) that you can recognize your child in 2 ways.
    1) you are OFFICIALLY (READ: UNDER THAI LAW) married to the mother. And your name is on the birth certificate of your future child!

    2) Recognize your child through court. Amphur has informed us that it will take 2 to 3 months (Chiang Mai).

    If you send your email, my email can forward what the Ned. your embassy asks for a Ned. apply for a passport for your child.

  4. hans says up
    12 April 2014 at 08: 09

    Hi, my (half Thai) daughter is now 20. Am not married to the mother. Have been together for 25 years. After the birth in Bangkok, we'll have my name entered as father on the birth certificate, but I did not declare the birth myself at the relevant Amphoe (first mistake). Since we lived in NY at the time, mother and baby just came over on mother's passport. I applied for a passport at the Dutch consulate (based on the birth certificate with my name) and received it within a few days. Subsequently, my passport was renewed at the Dutch embassy in the next country where I worked. No problem. Then wanted to extend again (after 5 years) in BKK. I was told that the passport had been issued illegally! Then had to sue the Dutch state through the court in The Hague. Took 2.5 years but got right from the court. Mistakes I made that were the cause of all the misery: carelessness with the bureaucracy. 1. Register your child yourself. Your name not only as a father but also as the declarant. Get a certificate of recognition from the Amphoe (if I remember correctly it's something like “lap long booth” (sorry don't have my records handy here)). This certificate is issued without any problems if the child is not yet able to speak for itself, only the mother has to give permission. This document and NOT the birth certificate is seen in NL as proof of legal paternity. I was only able to get it myself, my daughter was then 12 through the intervention of Thai Family Court (interviews with everyone and a ruling that the Amphoe could issue the recognition document). If I had this document made at birth, I could have saved myself a lot of misery, time and money. Therefore, declare yourself and proof of recognition from Amphoe. Especially if you are not formally married. Good luck.

    • Tino Kuis says up
      12 April 2014 at 08: 34

      I can say something about that 'lap long booth'. In Thai it is รับรองบุตร or 'ráp rong boet' where ráp rong' means 'to confirm, acknowledge or certify' and 'boet' is a fancy word for 'son' or 'daughter'. Please copy this.

  5. hans says up
    12 April 2014 at 08: 55

    Hi Tino, thanks for the details. Unfortunately I don't have a Thai script on my smartphone here far outside Thailand. Do you think there are any other documents that should be presented to the embassy in cases like this? My impression was, and still is, that they are instructed to look carefully for opportunities to say no.

  6. Tino Kuis says up
    12 April 2014 at 10: 06

    That 'copy this' was an appeal to Robert, the questioner……….
    I don't get the impression that the embassy is 'looking at opportunities to say no'. They are careful though. The most important thing is of course that the (Dutch) father is mentioned on the Thai birth certificate, then you have no further problems, just a lot of traveling back and forth. At the time I had no 'bai rap rong fine', only the Thai (translated and legalized) birth certificate, but everything went smoothly. The embassy website also lists all other required documents, but a phone call or email never hurts.

  7. They are says up
    12 April 2014 at 10: 16

    1) If your daughter has Dutch nationality, you can apply for a passport for her.

    The following documents are required to apply for a new passport;
    - the application form completed and signed by both parents,
    -If both parents have co-signed the form, but do not appear with the application, then a legalized copy of the holder's page of the passport must be submitted from the non-appearing parent
    - legalized and translated birth certificate,
    - marriage certificate (not older than 6 months) or certificate of recognition,
    -2 passport photos that comply with the photo Matrix (see above http://www.paspoortinformatie.nl)
    -copy of passports of both parents including proof of residence in Thailand (e.g. a copy of residence permit)
    -if applicable; in case of dual nationality, also a copy of another passport
    -fee (5070 baht, subject to exchange rate changes)
    - your child must also appear at the embassy for the application
    see also http://thailand.nlambassade.org/producten-en-diensten/consular-services/paspoorten-en-id-bewijzen

    If the marriage has only been a ceremony but not yet the formal/official marriage (registration), then your daughter does not yet have Dutch nationality if there has also been no recognition. Merely stating your name on the birth certificate cannot be regarded as recognition

  8. hans says up
    12 April 2014 at 11: 15

    Hi Tino, I think the difference in embassy assessment between you and my case was that you were married to the mother at the time of application. In that case, according to Dutch law, no proof of recognition is required. The treatment I was given at the embassy at the time was rude bordering on rudeness. At first they even refused to give me a copy of the expired Dutch passport. This was “issued by the State of the Netherlands and their property”. Not disputing this, I asked them (probably not very kindly) for a copy that I could later produce as evidence in legal proceedings. Had to come back 2 times before I got the canceled document back. I have been gone for more than 2 years since then. Must admit that when the embassy was told after almost 3 years that my daughter had been awarded the Dutch nationality by the court, a pleasant consular employee congratulated me with the whispered message that the tendency to share our precious nationality with others in The Hague wasn't big. Anyway, rab rong boet is required for Robert simply because he is not married to the mother.

    • Tino Kuis says up
      12 April 2014 at 16: 47

      I think you are right with your last sentence.

  9. Robert says up
    14 April 2014 at 12: 31

    Thank you all very much for the effort you took to sort out the eea for acknowledging and applying for a passport at the birth of a child in Thailand, I'm going to go through it all at my leisure and later if I still come back with questions.

    Greetings robert.

  10. robert says up
    15 April 2014 at 10: 14

    Hi tino, sono, & hans

    Ok thanks for your info.

    So I will take the document from the hospital to the town hall within 30 days, where the names of father & mother will be on the birth certificate.
    Then I go with that birth certificate to the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Cheng Wattana. There I have the document translated into English and stamped for legalization.
    Then I go with the deed to the Dutch embassy and I also have the document legalized and I can then apply for a passport for my son, I understand that we have to take our just born son with us, and then we have a passport and is the child also Dutch,? I am not married to my Thai partner and do not know whether this is necessary because you can no longer recognize it at the embassy since 1-01-2012, so now I hope that I have understood it all when applying for a passport for my son.

    greetings robert.

    • Tino Kuis says up
      15 April 2014 at 15: 46

      In addition to the birth certificate (soetibad in Thai), don't forget to request that form rap rong boet (recognition son/daughter) at the town hall. I don't think you need to go to court anymore. Translating into English can be done around Chaeng Wattana (there are always translators there) but it is better to do it earlier. At an officially certified translation agency. Every city has one.

  11. They are says up
    15 April 2014 at 11: 59

    robert,

    If you are not married, you go to court with the (Thai) birth certificate. They can legally pronounce that you are the father (in writing) and with THAT document you can go to the Ned. embassy for NL passport.

    PS. such a statement lasts og. 2-3 months!!!! at least in Chiang Mai

  12. Robert says up
    15 April 2014 at 15: 38

    Ok sono so I have to go to court in bangkok FIRST, and why is that, I still have to indicate on the amphur that I am the father on the birth certificate.
    And where is that court in bangkok, because that's where it is born.

    PS: does anyone here know where you have a good hospital in bangkok for the birth to happen, and what that will cost approximately.

    Thank you very much greetings Robert.

    • They are says up
      15 April 2014 at 17: 30

      Tino/Robert,

      I am also in the process of applying for a Ned. passport. I recently requested information from the Ned. embassy:

      first email from the Ned. embassy:
      1) If your daughter has Dutch nationality, you can apply for a passport for her.

      The following documents are required to apply for a new passport;
      - the application form completed and signed by both parents,
      -If both parents have co-signed the form, but do not appear with the application, then a legalized copy of the holder's page of the passport must be submitted from the non-appearing parent
      - legalized and translated birth certificate,
      - marriage certificate (not older than 6 months) or certificate of recognition,
      -2 passport photos that comply with the photo Matrix (see above http://www.paspoortinformatie.nl)
      -copy of passports of both parents including proof of residence in Thailand (e.g. a copy of residence permit)
      -if applicable; in case of dual nationality, also a copy of another passport
      -fee (5070 baht, subject to exchange rate changes)
      - your child must also appear at the embassy for the application
      see also http://thailand.nlambassade.org/producten-en-diensten/consular-services/paspoorten-en-id-bewijzen

      If the marriage has only been a ceremony but not yet the formal/official marriage (registration), then your daughter does not yet have Dutch nationality if there has also been no recognition. Merely stating your name on the birth certificate cannot be regarded as recognition

      2nd email from the embassy.
      When the recognition has been confirmed by a Dutch municipality or via the Thai authorities, for example a court decision.

      robert,

      I live in Chiang Mai myself..I can't help you which court unfortunately. You can ask your friend to go to amphur in question and they can refer her.

  13. hans says up
    16 April 2014 at 01: 37

    Let's not make it more complicated than necessary. The Amphoe can immediately issue a rab rong fine at the request of the father AND the mother without court intervention, provided the request is made as long as the baby is not yet of age. Therefore, request it when you file a tax return. No court required.

  14. Tino Kuis says up
    16 April 2014 at 05: 30

    robert,
    Let your girlfriend do something too. No doubt she knows where to give birth.
    Inquire at the embassy whether a birth certificate and bai rap rong fine is sufficient (which I think) or whether a court should also be involved. That will then be the court for 'youth and family matters'
    (saan jaowachon lae khropkhroea) popularly called 'saan dek' ('children's court').


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