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Reader question: How do you cope with the decline in your disposable income in Thailand?

By Submitted Message
Posted in Reader question
Tags: ,
March 27 2015

Dear readers,

You have paid your entire life to the state pension, rising from its small 10% to 17,90% of your income, a mega amount in those 50 years that you pay.

Then you are 65 years + a few months and you can start enjoying it, you first receive € 1.045,29 per month and because you "live together" this is reduced to € 721,69. The reason they give in The Hague is that you can also share the costs for electricity, etc. together. This is a reduction of your income of € 323,60 (11.600 Baht).

In the first place, my Thai wife does not even earn enough to pay these costs (electricity, water, telephone, internet and school fees). But they don't care about that in The Hague. Living together is living together, so sharing costs.

Then the Euro will also fall. This is now a 20% reduction compared to May 2014

My question is therefore how do others in Thailand cope with this?

Regards,

Rob

Number of times read: 225

39 responses to “Reader question: How do you cope with the decline in your disposable income in Thailand?”

  1. jhvd says up
    27 March 2015 at 10: 25

    Dear Rob,

    You are absolutely right, but what I don't understand is that you don't get compensation for living together.
    You live together, you are not married.
    I live (in the Netherlands together with a Thai lady) my AOW will be reduced and then I will receive a supplement again for the simple reason that otherwise my income will fall below a certain minimum.
    Check with the SVB to see if this option also exists for you.

    Yours faithfully,

  2. Cees 1 says up
    27 March 2015 at 10: 47

    Unfortunately, this scheme only applies if you retire before 2015.
    Indeed, in the Netherlands they act as if you have no costs abroad. They forget about the incredibly expensive health insurance.
    While they should give a discount on that. Because the hospital costs are still considerably lower than in the Netherlands or Belgium. But the problem is that we cannot make a fist from here. So we are easy prey. Because most Dutch or Belgians do not take to the streets for us “foreigners”

    • Jan says up
      27 March 2015 at 12: 17

      Cees, I think that hospital costs in Thailand have risen enormously in recent years. Visited the doctor in Bangkok Hospital in January: 4000 Baht for the visit and a box of anti-inflammatory drugs, the same in Belgium 24,5 Euro doctor and 9,95 Euro medication !!! A friend had to have 2 stents placed in Belgium, converted 730.000 THB, a year later in Bangkok Pattaya hospital: 650.000 THB, so it's not that big a difference anymore, and certainly not for a country where the wage costs are still very low or USED ​​TO BE.

      • riekie says up
        27 March 2015 at 12: 27

        I just go to the government hospital here in Isaan, I pay 350 bath for doctor visits and medication and you immediately take the most expensive hospital, Bangkok Hospital

        • Keith 2 says up
          27 March 2015 at 15: 34

          Doctors in several hospitals and some smaller clinics have raised their prices considerably, or in other words: you run the risk of being ripped off, or you will just be dropped off.

          A friend's story: Cutting away hemorrhoids: price quote well-known hospital in Pattaya 150.000 baht. State Hospital 50 km away: 18.000 baht, including 4 nights in hospital!

          Friend 2's story: had a new girlfriend, bit of a rough frolic, damaged pussy.
          WITHOUT RESEARCH, a general practitioner in a clinic in Jomtien provided treatment for 3 venereal diseases. And sold an expensive rinse water for double the price (1200 baht).
          After a friend's insistence, I did a laboratory test: result: no bacteria whatsoever, all antibiotics (including injection - the female doctor even wanted to do 3 for gonorrhea, where 1 is sufficient) were completely unnecessary. Total bill 3400 baht, where 1000 baht would have been sufficient.

          Myself: a few days of fever, to be sure, check for malaria and dengue in Memorial Hospital. Result negative, no bacteria could be found. Still, they wanted to give me intravenous antibiotics… just to be on the safe side. Refused it because the doctor couldn't say what it was needed for. I then asked for a sleeping pill for 1 night (slept badly due to the fever): got the most expensive one!

          If you are prescribed medication in a clinic or hospital by a doctor: do not buy there, just write down what you need and then buy it for half the price in a pharmacy.

          • patrick says up
            29 March 2015 at 02: 08

            I don't get it right. July last year in the Isaan, local hospital. Taken to hospital by local doctor due to fever (38°) and leg pain. He didn't trust it, so to the hospital. At the doctor's office (was around 21.00 p.m.) examined. Conclusion was onset of dehydration. Paracetamol and fluid retaining powders received from the hospital pharmacy. Cost: 0 Baht. The doctor also did not want to be paid for his transport of 45 km there and back. So I gave him 6 cans of beer out of sheer shame (he had stopped at a 7/11 at the request of my girlfriend).

      • Cees 1 says up
        28 March 2015 at 05: 30

        I agree with you. The private hospitals in Thailand are criminals. Especially the Bangkok hospitals.. I don't understand why the insurance companies don't intervene. Because they must know that they are being screwed. An acquaintance of mine went to Chiangmai for a meniscus operation .He could spend up to 140.000 baht.But in the hospital (Rayave) they didn't understand that he had insurance.and the bill was 92.500 baht.When his wife told that the insurance would pay.they came back with a bill of 125.800 baht .when he refused to sign off on that.they negotiated until the bill came to 104.000.so the insurance companies should step in more.they have the power.because i think 80% of the people who get into those private hospitals included are insured.

  3. Khan Martin says up
    27 March 2015 at 10: 50

    That was not difficult in my case. My wife went back to work to make up for the difference.

  4. variegated says up
    27 March 2015 at 12: 22

    Just work yourself - or your wife - for a living.
    Many farangs have moved to Thailand for the nice weather and other entertainment, but last but not least also for the much cheaper living.
    Often people have not accrued pension and in this way they can still live somewhat comfortably on their old-age pension.
    That party is getting less and less festive..

  5. riekie says up
    27 March 2015 at 12: 24

    Look, this is how you get it: your wife will go back to work or you will live more frugally, the government in the Netherlands does not have to take into account that you pay high medical costs here, you can also go to a government hospital, it costs almost nothing

    • Cees1 says up
      28 March 2015 at 05: 51

      No, they don't have to. But they continue to act as if we get everything here for nothing and cut us off on everything. And if something is really wrong with you, you go to a government hospital.? They are good enough for a paint strip, but I wouldn't like to go there for something serious.

  6. Dirk says up
    27 March 2015 at 12: 36

    Hi Rob,

    The aow premium is a pay-as-you-go premium. The state pension is paid from the premium to the 65+. In other words, you do not accrue a pension with this as with the pension funds. Here too, it is becoming increasingly difficult for many people to make ends meet. Just look at the increase in food banks.

  7. Ev Someren Brand says up
    27 March 2015 at 12: 38

    You seem to have NEVER had a conversation with the SVB ....!!!!!

    No one has paid for his state pension!!!!

    The AOW is a BENEFIT!!!!!

    Even an unmarried mother who HAS NEVER WORKED YET will soon receive state pension!!!!

    Your AOW applies from the age of 15 that you live in NL ... You are not subject to tax at the age of 15 ... you are subject to SCHOOL and certainly not AOW ( tax payer )

    Doubts about my response? Contact SVB !!!!

    Nice weekend,
    Eddie.

    • ruud says up
      27 March 2015 at 13: 44

      With the increase in the state pension age to 67 years, the starting date for the accrual of the state pension will be raised to 17 years.
      As a result, people who emigrate before the state pension commences will lose 2 years of accrual.

    • hans heinz schirmer says up
      27 March 2015 at 14: 13

      sorry, the state pension is not a benefit, I have had it all my life
      maximum aow premium paid for this amount I could have built up a nice pension

    • Nico says up
      27 March 2015 at 14: 50

      Dear Eddie,

      Just a correction; You state, “At 15 you are not a taxpayer” but a student.

      BUT 50 years ago it was, then education was compulsory until the age of 12.
      in the 60s this was increased to 14 years.
      in the 70s this was increased to 15 years.

    • Nico B says up
      27 March 2015 at 17: 12

      Sorry EvSomeren Brand, without wanting to shortchange you with your texts in CAPITAL LETTERS, you really don't know about the Aow and a conversation with the SVB is certainly not necessary.
      The Aow is a cash system insurance, what comes in today is paid to Aow beneficiaries.
      From the age of 15 to the age of 65, people paid through withholding or on a separate assessment Premium levy National Insurance Aow (also Awbz, we forget that for now).
      The word Volksverzekering says something, insurance. Not that we saw the paid premiums disappear into a piggy bank for ourselves, no, not that, but we did have an insurance policy, namely, based on the legislation, the government assured us of certain rights by the time we had become Recipients of Aow.
      The Aow is therefore not a benefit, that is what the government would like us to believe, by always calling it that, but that is not the case at all, the name of the levy is National Insurance Premium Levy.
      The fact that an unmarried mother who has never worked still receives state pension as soon as she has become entitled to state pension has to do with the fact that this was stated in the law, which is why it was called a National Insurance.
      And oh yes, from the age of 15 you were indeed a taxpayer in the Netherlands and a national insurance premium payer if you had income, from my student holiday job there were already deductions.
      Incidentally, the reader's question is how do you cope with a lower disposable income in Thailand.
      Ask yourself the remediation questions for every expenditure you make, applied very critically: is that necessary? is that still necessary? with the emphasis on that must and clean up everything that is not or no longer necessary, then you will come a long way.
      Nico B

  8. B. Harmsen says up
    27 March 2015 at 12: 58

    This law was already passed in 1996 that with effect from 01-01-2015 the allowance for younger partner would lapse and this will not suddenly blow in and whether you live in the Netherlands or elsewhere, the law applies to everyone.

    So you could have taken that into account.

    hello ben2

    • Cor Verkerk says up
      27 March 2015 at 16: 23

      This law only applies to those born after 1950

    • Christina says up
      27 March 2015 at 17: 54

      At that time my employer sent a letter about this to all people born after 1950.
      The employee could, if he/she wanted to, take out insurance for this. Not required.

  9. Harry says up
    27 March 2015 at 13: 19

    Unfortunately, you have NOT paid ONE CENT for your OWN state pension throughout your life, but only for the people who were entitled to state pension at the time. When that law was passed under Drees, it contained a clause: age linked to average life expectancy. However, that has been a dead letter until recently: it has been democratically decided to raise the age from 65+ via 67 to ? ? increase in view of the increasing life expectancy.
    If a law is passed tomorrow that also takes into account the cost of living, so in NL 100%, but in the much cheaper… Thailand, for example only 50%, all state pensioners in TH will be emphatically WRONG!
    Your privately concluded PENSION, where you pay approximately 20-25% yourself, and the rest must come from investment returns, that is a different story. But with an interest of 0,05%; companies and countries that do not (can/will not) pay back; stocks down, dividends down; even a stupid moron understands that the 70% of the last salary has been a sales pitch.
    If you also choose to live in a different currency block (TH in the US$ block instead of, for example, southern Spain or Greece), you should not cry if the exchange rate difference turns against you.
    By the way: I did not hear anyone protest when the THB went from 13 per Hfl ( * 2.2 = approx. 28 ) to 52.

    And as for some costs, especially old-age provision and medical care: in Belgium and NL, a large part of the costs are kept out of sight of the patient with a lot of tax money. Eg NL: personal contribution about E 1100, but real costs: In 2011, 89,4 billion euros was spent on care / 16,7 million = E 5.353 per person. So.. even with that private health insurance premium in TH don't complain please.

    • ruud says up
      27 March 2015 at 13: 59

      Of those 89,4 billion euros, I see 22 billion falls under the heading non-assignable/non-disease related and 19 billion under the heading psychological disorders.
      I have the silent suspicion that some money disappears in deep pockets here.
      Incidentally, many healthcare costs will (partially) fall under the deductible.

    • Keith 2 says up
      27 March 2015 at 14: 42

      Quote above: “stocks down, dividends down”

      … excuse me?

      In recent decades an average return of 11% on shares from AEX !!! Despite several crashes, but annual dividend + share price recovery accounted for this 11%.
      Many companies also increase their dividend every year.
      If you had started 30 years ago and then invested only EUR 1000 annually in shares and reinvested the dividend, you would now have had almost EUR 222.000.

      Harry probably means that the pension funds have too low a coverage ratio due to the low actuarial interest rate and therefore have to freeze or sometimes even reduce the pensions.
      The paradox here is that the pension funds have made record profits THANKS to low interest rates (more money in cash than ever): after all, low interest rates mean high bond prices… and the largest part of the investments of the pension funds consists of bonds (government bonds).

      • BA says up
        28 March 2015 at 07: 51

        That bond story is purely hypothetical.

        It is true that they currently have a higher trade value due to low interest rates. So it looks good on the balance sheet of a pension fund. They just can't do much with it. If they sell those bonds, they have to invest their money in new bonds that yield almost nothing in terms of interest.

        If interest rates rise, those new bonds fall in value again and you even suffer a loss on paper, plus you are stuck with the fact that they still yield almost nothing in terms of interest. Then the only option is to stay put until you get the principal back.

        If they keep their current bonds, they will only get back the principal amount at the end of the term. The result is that those bonds will fall in value as the end of the term comes into view.

        The only thing is that you can, for example, use government bonds as collateral for other securities, so they are currently getting a little more room in that respect. But a pension fund is bound by all kinds of rules and these kinds of constructions also entail a lot of risks.

        But then the same story continues. They can therefore not sell those bonds and that profit only exists temporarily on paper. Additional returns would then have to come from other securities.

        But in fact, the absolute return from those bonds is still equal to the interest rate at which they bought them. This is even different if they come from the secondary market. If you can get it cheaper, you still have some profit on the principal (or loss if they had to be more expensive due to the low interest rate)

        Those pension funds are counting on the long term and they know that the current bond bubble is only temporary.

        • Keith 2 says up
          28 March 2015 at 08: 06

          Thanks for the addition, this is of course correct. I didn't want to go that far in my story.

  10. Lung addie says up
    27 March 2015 at 14: 23

    Dear Rob,
    I have read and re-read your question and do have a few questions:

    do you live part-time in Thailand and part-time in the Netherlands?
    do you live permanently in Thailand?

    So to answer your question:
    if you live part-time in the Netherlands/Thailand, then it is simple: there is nothing to absorb in Thailand, you just stay in the Netherlands and there you will not be bothered by the lower exchange rate of the Euro compared to the THB. You just have to accept the applicable legislation regarding benefits for singles, cohabitants and married people. The amounts are known to everyone, so you could make your own account in advance.

    If you live permanently in Thailand, then there is no problem. The residence conditions for singles and foreigners married to a Thai lady are known in advance (cohabitants are not taken into account here, everyone knows that). If you meet these conditions, you have no problem because they are high enough to have a carefree existence in Thailand. By the way, these amounts are in THB, so there is no adjustment or accommodation involved as 65.000THB/month remains the same amount here in Thailand, both now and before, regardless of the exchange rate. You currently need more Euros to reach this amount, but the Dutch government and the Thai government can be held liable for this. In this case it was your own choice and possibly a gross miscalculation on your part to move to Thailand with apparently insufficient resources.
    And yes, with 721 euros/month it is difficult for you to retire here as a Farang with a Thai girlfriend. You usually need a little more for that, it is not without reason that Thailand imposed conditions on long-stayers, and, in my opinion, with good reason.

    Lung addie

  11. will says up
    27 March 2015 at 16: 48

    to kees 2

    you write about the much cheaper state hospital 50 km away in Pattaya. Where? hospital name?

    Thank you .

    [email protected]

    will

    • Keith 2 says up
      28 March 2015 at 07: 43

      Can Closer: Banglamung Hospital, 669 moo 5, Banglamung, Chonburi,20150

  12. Eddie from Ostend says up
    27 March 2015 at 18: 40

    On my last visit to Pattaya I had a bad cold and was afraid of pneumonia. I went to the state hospital of BANGLAMUNG in Pataya. I waited 4 hours before it was my turn. The doctor's visit + medicines and there were a lot, because they like to prescribe antibiotics which cost me about 350 baht. Address PATAYA MEMORIAL HOSPITAL -Banglamung, Chonburi. They also speak English at the reception.

    • Keith 2` says up
      28 March 2015 at 05: 14

      You don't mean Memorial (M stands for Money, there) hospital at 2nd Road/Central Road in Pattaya, but Banglamung Hospital, 669 moo 5, Banglamung, Chonburi,20150

    • PetervZ says up
      28 March 2015 at 06: 34

      For clarification. The Pattaya Memorial Hospital is the first private hospital in the Pattaya area.

  13. self says up
    28 March 2015 at 08: 10

    Questioner asks how people deal with the decline in disposable income? As far as I read the responses, there are no answers to discover. On the other hand, there are tirades about the state pension.
    People conveniently forget that everyone, whether in TH or NL or anywhere else in the world, is affected by the policy decisions of the NL government. In the Netherlands, too, someone in a situation such as the one outlined by the questioner must ask himself how to deal with a decline in income. This decline has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with TH.

    To answer the question: when I left for TH I had secured (more than enough) equity, plus monthly income until my death. Even if the euro becomes worth as much as the guilder then, you will still not hear me beep. Many should have.
    But as has often been said on these kinds of questions: put your consumption to your business, tighten your belt, cut your expenses, and accept that you can spend significantly less for your euro. And if that doesn't work, then draw the necessary conclusions as an adult. And don't complain like that!

    In general, one can already wonder whether it is at all right that the NL government should or should not care about someone's lack of finances in TH? Plus what the NL government has to do with someone's inability to take out health insurance in TH? And what does the NL government have to do with someone's decision to emigrate to TH? Yet nothing at all! You do it all yourself. Why not ask for extra Dutch tax when the Thai Baht stood at 45 for one Euro? I have even experienced more than 52 baht! I was able to save well then.

    In addition: why choose a partner who does not provide for its own maintenance, or cannot provide for itself, or should not have to do so? Isn't it crazy to think that the NL taxpayer only provides for that? And if you choose a partner who doesn't have his own means to support himself, make sure you can. And don't be so calimero. It is striking how much, now that the euro is declining, people think they should behave like victims and spend their days whining and grumbling.

    Of course it is difficult and annoying if one is surprised and surprised by the exchange rate fluctuations of today, but that does not mean that after all the lust one should not keep one's pants up.
    If only people were willing to let down in good times.
    So let's answer the actual question again: how to deal with the decline?
    Well: tighten your belt, budget, and don't act like a little boy!

    • lung addie says up
      28 March 2015 at 08: 26

      That really hits the nail on the head. Nicely worded answer to this question. I wonder what all those hospital issues have to do with the question. Too bad but apparently there are many who just don't understand or want to understand. Standing at the Wailing Wall, trying to make someone else pay for their own wrong decisions…. Swimming in a pond that does not exceed your swimming abilities, otherwise you will drown sooner or later. But yes, some people's minds are somewhere low, very low.

      lung addie

    • Cornelis says up
      28 March 2015 at 08: 33

      Soi: a reaction that I endorse 100%! That nagging and that sour fuss about what NL - allegedly - does wrong or fails to do with regard to those who have voluntarily moved to another country is completely out of place.

    • ruud says up
      28 March 2015 at 08: 48

      What the government has of course done is to abolish all tax credits for expats.
      This was not a general regulation, but a specific measure to tax people living abroad extra.
      The shift from social contributions to taxation is also aimed at this.
      The expats in Thailand are probably only a by-catch for the benefits that go to Turkey and Morocco, where the measure will mainly be intended.

    • kees1 says up
      28 March 2015 at 09: 35

      555 Soi
      Very good man it is as you say normal and no different
      I hate all that bullshit.
      Just manage your money wisely. The crisis applies to everyone even if you happen to be in
      Thailand lives. And if you can't make ends meet from your state pension in Thailand, then you have to
      go back to the Netherlands because there you get the groceries for free.
      As soon as it comes to the state pension, all hell breaks out on the blog. The group of expats
      complains bitterly.
      Look at that piece that is always broadcast on Dutch TV
      That old woman she lays under some dirty rags at 30 below zero in a hut
      made of cardboard she has nothing she has no one she says. She is crying
      Take a good look at that.
      Consider yourself lucky with your AOW and don't whine like that

  14. bona says up
    28 March 2015 at 14: 23

    Well Rob.
    In my circle of acquaintances, no one has had to leave the country yet. I don't notice any change in the way of life either. Just a little grief with the few who are affected. Everything else: Same Same.

    • Nico B says up
      28 March 2015 at 17: 39

      No regrets in my area either, but a message from the second hand that a shop that sells wine reports that Farang no longer buys as much wine as before and that various bars will close because Farang drinks much less beer and no chips (!) anymore to eat.
      Please visit the shop yourself soon and will inquire about it.
      Nico B

  15. tonymarony says up
    28 March 2015 at 16: 10

    The only thing I would like to add is that these are the first steps by the government to find some money again and I would like you to stop trumpeting that it is all so very cheap here in Thailand, that may be the same in Isaan, but in the area around Cha Am Hua Hin and Pranburi it is very disappointing, I can tell you, because in the Netherlands they are also listening, thank you for your attention, because the 1 can live on 1400 and the other cannot live on 3500 euros, so look at your own budget and do not speak for someone else.


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