Dear readers,
For some time now I have been migrating my Thai girlfriend and her two minor children (10 and 11 years old) to the Netherlands. After many problems with Thai documents, which were often caused by too creative or stubborn Thai officials, all necessary documents are now at the IND.
My girlfriend has never been married to the father of her children, and he has never registered as such in his name.
This is clearly stated on the parental authority certificate. Furthermore, the deed explains Thai law that if the father has never been married and has not registered the children in his name, she as the mother is the only one who has parental authority. Just like in the Netherlands, by the way.
After a few remarkable blunders at the IND (including a death certificate from the father of the children because my girlfriend's father passed away), the IND now wants the father to give permission to migrate the children. In my opinion this is not possible and should not be done and because he has no authority over the children, but she is now forced to make the migration of the children dependent on the father of her children, whom she has not seen for six years and has never contributed to the care and education.
Does anyone on this forum know more about this, or how to fix it?
Thank you kindly for any responses.
Regards,
Henk
I already wrote to Henk privately that the IND should show a legal text that, according to Thai law, should be sufficient for unmarried couples where the father has disappeared from the picture, the mother is automatically the only one with parental authority. Or else perhaps a statement with witnesses who confirm that the father has disappeared with the northern sun for years. But I wouldn't know how to arrange that in Thailand (among others at the Amphur).
Just at the municipality in Thailand with witnesses, village head and others from the village and family, that's how it happened with us, the child also got the mother's surname, had the father's surname, no contact with the father, mother took care of the child, then 9 years 2001, it. It's a lot of hassle. Go live in Thailand, or if you want to quickly become old, gray and stressed, you shouldn't want that if you're over 35. Good luck
The IND does not make things difficult, the IND just wants certainty. And rightly so, if you see what is currently going on about Insinya, for example.
Solution: Thai legal text, and a statement from the Amphur (she has to testify that dad is out of the picture with witnesses, etc.), which she then has translated, stamps from the Thai office for foreign affairs AND legalization from the Dutch embassy in Bangkok.
Office diagonally opposite the embassy arranges everything, they are great.
You can be sure that the IND is satisfied with this aspect.
Has happened. Nevertheless, the IND detained the case for three months.
All requests have been met. Do everything through a lawyer in immigration law, but one day after they receive the last document they keep it for three months.
By the way, Insinya has been kidnapped and thinks this is a very unfortunate comparison to say the least.
My girlfriend and I have met all the conditions.
Nothing unfortunate about my comment, nor intended as a comparison. I thereby express that if parents separate, the authorities concerned must deal with this as carefully as possible. And sometimes that is diametrically opposed: the Indian court finds that Insinya's father simply exercises his paternal rights. Thailand is not the Netherlands, so thorough research is required. Especially if you know that in Thailand (own experience!!) everything is for sale in the amphur, for a price.
It seems to me that Thai law is irrelevant here.
It concerns Dutch law.
It seems to me that the IND should be asked on which article of the Dutch law it bases its decision.
Then you have something to which you can possibly object, and if possible demonstrate that this does not apply.
But I admit that I am not a lawyer, and could be completely wrong.
It only seems to me that the IND should be able to substantiate its decision with a legal article.
Their decision states that there is no appeal.
My lawyer has been in contact with the IND by telephone. The case manager is no longer on the case and no new case manager has been appointed yet. When asked by my lawyer on what grounds the IND bases its actions, they do not want to answer.
Through the court. My girlfriend was married to an American the divorce was unstoppable (lawyer, Enabled) There was/is a daughter he didn't look at, could prove everything the daughter at that time approx. 5 years old also had to have her say everything was okay statement she has all rights and he is not allowed to do anything in any way.
In case this is a Thai court, a Thai lawyer has informed me that this will take at least a year after which the court will rule that it has no jurisdiction as he has never registered the children and there has never been a court ruling at his request been
Hank,
I have also brought my wife's daughter to the Netherlands several times, although on a tourist visa, but the situation is the same. Never married, father did not acknowledge daughter. Daughter has family name of my wife (girlfriend)
How did we solve that; My wife has always taken care of her daughter alone, the mother has to go to the amphur in the place where they were born or lived. There the statement is made that the mother is the caregiver of her child(ren), which must then be translated. In our case that was enough. Amphur states that father, if he is already known, cannot impose any demands.
The document “parental power” has been issued, translated and legalized by the Amphur. To be on the safe side, the Amphur has added the relevant article of law with the comment that it has sole parental authority.
The problem, in my opinion, is that the IND indicates which documents they want, and we have sent them to the IND, but do not indicate in any way why they act in this way.
In fact, the fear of international child abduction by the mother plays a role here. The IND therefore wants clarity in the MVV procedure about whether the mother is also allowed to emigrate with the children.
The Dutch 'legal basis' for the requirements set by the IND is the Aliens Circular. You could argue whether that policy is justified in all cases. Besides the fact that this entails relatively high costs, it is in any case time consuming.
It is better to be pragmatic and find out how it is sufficiently demonstrated that the mother has sole custody of the children despite the fact that a father is listed on the birth certificate.
How to arrange this has already been indicated above 1) via the correct Thai legal text or 2) via a statement from the competent authority that it is customary to always put a father on a birth certificate or 3) alternative permission from the court for emigration of the children.
Another solution is to marry the mother and go the EU route. This is because this concerns a right of residence (of the children as family members of a Union citizen) by operation of law, which may not be subject to the condition that the other parent gives permission. Not in a host Member State, but also not in the event of a subsequent return to the Member State of origin of the Union citizen.
Dear Prawo, indeed. That's why I put this as a reader's question instead of question & answer from me. Hopefully someone will respond who can tell exactly which steps to go through besides the logical 'go to the Amphur (municipality).
Nb: Prawo could you respond to my email regarding Schengen visa file feedback? Thank you.
IND is very short-sighted. (Father of child drifter, alcoholic and untraceable for years)
My experience is that when you have everything done, they will think of something at the last minute at the embassy that will result in the visa being refused. In the end, a phone call from a politician friend offered solace and it was all right.
Get a good lawyer. Doesn't cost more than if you have to figure out everything yourself.
Dear Henk, I see two different things in your stories. One, you say that they indicate that no appeal is possible against their decision. And two, that they are adjourning the case for 3 months. Is it the decision about the adjournment or the one about family reunification. If it is the decision about the adjournment, it may be correct, but they must then refer to the article of law on which they rely. Then you have to wait three months and wait for their decision on family reunification. 'Mrs. Dik.
Dear Dick.
Thank you for your response.
The IND has decided to defer the application for three months without reference to a legal article.
They refuse to respond to telephone questions from my lawyer.
It feels like I've stepped into a Kafka book.
Had exactly the same problem with the IND about 6 years ago.
The IND also pointed out to me that the father had to give permission. The mother, like your girlfriend, was never legally married, the father never recognized the children as his own through a court order.
I first called my girlfriend in Thailand to explain what the problem was. She then went to a Thai court to ask the lawyers present there for advice. Those lawyers assured her that she had done everything right and that the father had no say over the children. I then contacted the IND by telephone and asked for the official who was responsible for the file of my girlfriend (now my wife).
Explained the situation to her again, and also pointed out the deed which clearly states that ONLY the mother has authority over her children.
She then asked her colleagues at the IND for information about what exactly happened, and then acknowledged that she was indeed not well informed about Thai legislation regarding parental control. The IND official apologized sportily and promised to give a positive decision by return post.
I want to say that there are a number of people working at the IND who are simply not aware of all the rules for different countries. In your case I would try to also speak to the official in question and, if necessary, speak to his (or her) superior.
I understand that this is not the great advice you are waiting for, but I hope it is of some use to you.
I wish you much success and strength in this process
Best regards. Ray
Dear Ray.
Thank you very much for your feedback.
It seems that the civil servant is not aware of many things, given her bizarre questions.
She has now been taken off the case, but no one else has been set up yet.
The IND refuses to answer questions from my lawyer.
Hopefully next week a new civil servant will come to my office and hopefully he will speak to me.
kind regards, Hank.
I read the story so that a TEV-MVV application has been made. The statutory decision period for this is three months. That period can be extended by three months if more research or data is sinful. That seems to be the case here.
There is also little a lawyer can do at this stage. It is up to the sponsor to arrange/and provide the requested information. Whether the IND is right to ask for it can then be tested in an objection, if the IND rejects the MVV application.
There is no legal remedy against such an adjournment decision.
This is the case, however, if the application is rejected or if an objection lodged against such a rejection is declared unfounded.
From that moment on, the foreigner who wants the MVV is also entitled to subsidized legal assistance by a lawyer with a personal contribution of just over € 150.
In principle, all work during the application phase must be paid for in full yourself.
By reference Henk if he is the one who engaged the lawyer.
Eh law firm Servaas can speed things up in these cases. With me it took another 3 days after an initial phone call from them.
Dear Henk,
I've experienced the same.
What you have done qwa paper work is fine.
They and the IND cannot expect you to look up the father and provide a statement
to be made up.
Don't be discouraged, it's what the IND does to make sure it doesn't
is about trade.
They also ask to substantiate everything in kind (I also did).
Such as photos of the children, mother and intercourse in daily life, papers and translation of the
family.
I've also had this setback and kept pushing for what I had.
Called the IND blue every week and they then admitted.
With kind perseverance you will be fine.
Erwin
My advice in this regard is to contact the law firm of Servaas.
Know from my own experience and the experience of acquaintances that their help and certainly that of Mr. Sarkasian can open doors.
There are walk-in Saturdays at the biblioteek square 24. Let's see when.
Otherwise request a non-binding information meeting at their office.
Put the questions on paper in advance and send them in advance.
You will get 100% answer is my experience
Kennis wanted to get a handicapped child from Thaialnd (22 years old). IND was opposed.
court ruled in favor of the mother twice.
IND does not get any further than: Mrs. You just go to Thialand with your other (Dutch) children.
She has been Dutch for 10 years and has her own business. The Dutch children are 17 and 18 and are both studying.
The court will rule in 3 weeks. Given the fact that IND did not make a substantive defense, it says enough.
To be honest: it happens all too often that children are abducted by a foreign parent against the wishes of the other parent. There are very complicated treaties about that. The fact that the IND asks for evidence may therefore be justified, but it does not have to be.
This is work for a specialized lawyer.
Please note: I am talking about whether the IND's request is justified in this case. If not, then lack of cooperation from Thailand is no longer an issue.