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Home » Reader question » Less AOW in Thailand?
Less AOW in Thailand?
Dear readers,
Following on from the topic about the upcoming increase in the AOW, who knows why I receive less AOW than my twin brother (Euro 1209,52 against Euro 1261,52)?
All conceivable circumstances are exactly the same, only I live in Thailand and he in the Netherlands.
Regards,
Paul
Editors: Do you have a question for the readers of Thailandblog? Use it contact form..
Paul and brother, when your state pension commenced, you both received a decision with the calculation of the gross benefit. Grab those and see where the difference is. Or both log in to My SVB and view the calculation of the gross benefit.
If you're talking about the net benefit, which I doubt, the answer is simpler; then put both gross-net calculations side by side and see where the difference is. This may include a tax credit, payroll tax and health insurance premium. You can find the gross-net calculation on My SVB under 'payments'.
At SVB I read the net benefit for a single person (in the Netherlands) is now 1261,52
And then there is what Eli says about deductions etc. because he lives in Thailand, so Paul, like Eli, comes out to 1209,52. Matter of the twins to compare gross and net and everything in between.
Coincidentally(?) € 1261,52 is exactly the net monthly amount with a full state pension and living in the Netherlands, Erik.
Gross AOW: € 1334,94/month
Tax credit: € 255,33/month
Healthcare insurance contribution: € 73,42/month
Gross holiday allowance: € 69,30/month (to be paid in May)
Living in NL: € 1334,94 – € 73,42 = € 1261,52
Living in TH: € 1334,94 – € 255,33 = € 1079,61
https://www.svb.nl/nl/aow/bedragen-aow/aow-bedragen
It seems to me that Paul may have overlooked one or more differences between himself and his brother. Otherwise Paul will receive net (€ 1209,52 – € 1079,61 = ) € 129,91 more than he is entitled to.
There are absolutely no differences, only he lives in the Netherlands and I live in Thailand.
Unfortunately, the SVB is currently unavailable, also via the internet, but so far I understand that I do get the payroll tax credit, but not the general tax credit.
But why, I'm curious.
Because 'our' tax expert Lammert de Haan has not yet responded to your question, I will make an attempt.
I dug further and discovered that the payroll tax for people entitled to AOW consists of a part of wage tax, a part of the National Surviving Dependents Act (Anw) premium and a part of the Long-Term Care Act (Wlz) premium. (I think it's a bad thing that on the website of the SVB (https://www.svb.nl/nl/aow/bedragen-aow/aow-bedragen) the payroll tax is not broken down into wage tax, Anw premium and Wlz premium, including the statement of the withholding percentages.)
In 2022, with a gross AOW benefit, the wage tax (wage tax + Anw + Wlz) will be 19,17%.
https://bit.ly/3SNzzfE
In 2022, with a gross AOW benefit, the Anw contribution is 0,1% and the Wlz contribution is 9,65%.
https://bit.ly/3UORGDT
The Health Insurance Act (ZvW) contribution is 5,5%.
Because you cannot rely on the Anw, Wlz and Zvw when living in Thailand, for example, you do not have to pay the premiums and contribution for this. So only the wage tax component remains of the wage tax and national insurance contributions, which is deducted from the gross payment.
The gross benefit amounts as of 1 July 2022, for single state pensioners whose entitlement to a pension commenced after 1 February 1994, are:
Per month € 1308,56
Holiday allowance € 69,30
Total € 1377,86
The income support AOW is € 26,38 gross per month and is unchanged compared to January 2022.
See page 5 on https://bit.ly/3y2JNRI
I also discovered that 'our' tax expert Lammert de Haan answered your question earlier on this forum: https://www.thailandblog.nl/lezersvraag/een-vraag-over-de-aow-bij-emigratie-naar-thailand/#comment-662923
Only (19,17% – 0,1% – 9,65% = ) 9,42% wage tax is withheld from your gross payment.
€1334,94 × (1 – 0,0942) = €1334,94 – €125,75 = €1209,19
Then there is a difference of € 0,33 with the € 1209,52 that you claim to receive, but I attribute that to rounding errors as a result of converting gross annual amounts into monthly amounts.
I do not understand your question why you do receive the payroll tax credit, but not the general tax credit. But maybe you meant to write that you don't understand why you don't get a payroll tax credit and don't have to pay a healthcare insurance contribution.
Erik Kuijpers (29-09-2022 08:35h) already provided the answer to the question about payroll tax credit. You no longer have to pay the Anw and Wlz premiums and the Healthcare Insurance Act contribution, because you are no longer insured for that care if you live in Thailand.
If you still have a digid, you can find this data at svb.nl!
Regards, Leo_C
MijnSVB is unavailable due to maintenance work.
They are also not reachable by phone.
Dear Paul,
If you live in the Netherlands, you will also receive income support of € 26,38 in addition to the AOW.
You don't get this if you live in Thailand. The difference between you and your brother is greater than this and I have no explanation for it.
For people living in the Netherlands, this support will be reduced by € 2023 in 25 and will be canceled completely in 2024. So no higher state pension of 10% at all.
You are also entitled to AOW income support if you live in Thailand, Johan.
https://www.svb.nl/nl/aow/aow-buiten-nederland/u-gaat-buiten-nederland-wonen
There is a proposal from Minister CEG Gennip to reduce income support AOW from 1 January 2023 in 3 annual steps by 1/3.
https://www.fintool.nl/32994/aanpassing-inkomensondersteuning-aow.htm
The consequences of the plans from the Budget Memorandum presented by the cabinet:
https://www.nibud.nl/nieuws/koopkracht-2022-2023-de-belangrijkste-veranderingen/
According to the website of the SVB, I (living in Thailand) do receive income support.
You are probably in the same situation as me.
Deregistered in the Netherlands
You do not pay national insurance contributions
You are not entitled to a tax credit on your state pension, so you pay about 1550 euros in payroll tax per year.
That's the case with me and I receive exactly the same as you per month.
You may now also have an exemption for your possible pension, although this is separate from this.
It seems that this answer is the most accurate: no entitlement to the tax credit.
But why, I'm curious.
What was the mindset to take AOW's in Thailand this.
In our case 52 Euro per month?
It's not about the money, I just want to understand.
Paul, the right to payroll tax credit has changed on 1-1-2015 and not only for people in Thailand. After emigration, the right to tax credits is limited and you must meet three conditions at the same time. One is that you must live in one of the designated countries/places and Thailand is not one of them.
Just search for 'qualifying taxpayer' in this blog or elsewhere. You ask why? In Dutch politics there are parties that want to limit the export of benefits and allowances.
In principle, under completely equal circumstances, there should be no reduction if you live in Thailand. Have you ever lived abroad? Because then something can go off. Full AOW is 50 years x 2%, every year outside NL is 2% less.
My twin brother and I both receive the full AOW for singles.
No discounts or anything.
Exactly the same conditions.
I meant of course “lived abroad before the AOW age” 🙂
Dear Paul, the amount received by your twin brother is as indicated by the SVB on its website for AOW recipients. https://www.svb.nl/nl/aow/bedragen-aow/aow-bedragen
Gross it is therefore Euro 1334,94, minus 0 (zero) Euro payroll tax, and minus Euro 73,42 Healthcare insurance contribution. Makes net Euro 1261,52. The fact that you receive Euro 52 less may be due to the fact that you do pay payroll tax. Or maybe your brother (still) combines Income support with 0 euros of payroll tax. That all has to do with you and his separate and specific living situation. So don't look at the net amount, look at what you receive gross. In principle, you both receive the same gross amount of Euro 1334,94 (AOW amount as of 1 July XNUMX). The net amount then depends on everyone's personal living situation.
It seems that the difference lies in not getting the tax credit.
We both get payroll tax credit and all living and housing situations are exactly the same.
We also both receive income support.
In the end I do look at the net amount, because there is a difference of 52 euros.
And I would like to understand that.
Dear Paul, living and living situations are not the same. One lives in the Netherlands, the other lives in Thailand. In Thailand you do not get a payroll tax credit. Your brother in the Netherlands does. You both receive Income Support, but you do not pay the ZVW Contribution. Your brother does. In short: it is no use comparing net amounts.
If you live in the Netherlands, the tax on the state pension will be paid in arrears and possibly deducted from your income tax. If you live abroad, the tax will be deducted directly from your SVB benefit. Usually, if you have an exemption, this is also the only tax you still have to pay in NL.
Hope this answers your question.
The AOW has no tax agreement with Thailand. That's why they hold off more. I'm in the same boat. Am Belgian and receive less because I am domiciled in the embassy. If I were domiciled in Belgium I would have more.
Dear Andrew,
that you, as a Belgian, receive less pension because you are registered at the embassy, is totally wrong. You will receive exactly the same pension as if you lived in Belgium. The only reason I see may be that you have your pension transferred directly to a Thai account. Then you have to deal with the transfer costs and the exchange rate difference.
I have my pension paid into a Belgian account and receive exactly the same as what I would receive living in Belgium. With the annual settlement I even have more left over due to the fact that certain provincial and municipal levies are no longer charged, except for the surcharges.