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Home » Reader question » Reader question: Why am I being reduced on my state pension (Zvw contribution)?
Dear readers,
Yesterday I, a Dutch national domiciled in Belgium and living in Thailand for most of the year, received a message from the Social Insurance Bank that my AOW pension will be reduced by € 247,13, of which € 110,08 will be payroll tax and the rest Contribution Health Insurance Act -abroad.
The reduction in payroll tax was already applicable, but the reduction in the Zvw contribution was a new surprise, which was done at the request of the CAK.
I had never heard of the existence of that Zvw nor of the existence of the CAK before.
The rationale behind both discounts is unclear to me. Have more Dutch people living abroad received this message and do you understand the reason behind those discounts?
Regards,
Niek
You live in a treaty country, Belgium, and are entitled to reimbursement of medical care in that country and the premium for this is deducted from your AOW benefit. Dutch Tax Authority. CAK arranges the deduction of the premium.
I am also cut by the SVB, more than 10% of my gross income, so I live permanently in Thailand! deregistered from the Netherlands, under the heading of “tax and national insurance contributions”, for the latter “you can” apply for an exemption.
The SVB writes this on its website, the general rule is that everyone who lives in the Netherlands is insured for these national insurance schemes. If you receive wages or benefits, you pay national insurance contributions.
Sometimes you can apply for exemption from the obligation to take out insurance. You then no longer have to pay these premiums. But then you are no longer covered by the national insurance schemes.
Have twice applied for an exemption from the SVB by means of a "Statement not insured under Wlz", so far have not received any response, have stated in the letter, among other things, that it is impossible that I will ever return to the Netherlands and therefore it is pointless monthly to pay for these national insurance contributions, Thailand is a treaty country, I sometimes wonder, ….no! I rather think that the SVB deliberately makes it difficult for us.
Aduard you are pensioner, deregistered from NL and live in TH. Then you pay wage tax in NL on your AOW benefit. That rate is 9 percent in the first bracket. You write that more than 10 percent is withheld and it is a pity that you do not say exactly what is withheld. Now all I can do is take a shot at it.
Does the SVB know that you live in Thailand? I doubt that. I have lived in Thailand with state pension for years and more than the payroll tax has not been withheld. National insurance and health insurance were never discussed.
You write that your state pension will be reduced. I think this is not the right term. Cutting is on your gross benefit and I don't think that is the case. On your personal page you can see exactly what your gross state pension is, how it is built up, what is deducted and what your status is there. So take a look at MijnSVB. Good luck.
Erik, I looked, you are right, it is exactly 9%, so not +10% my mistake, so I also looked under "Deductions" on My SVB, it says "Payroll tax" and also on the question mark behind it clicked, it reads “Payroll tax consists of tax and national insurance contributions”, precisely for those national insurance contributions I have completed and sent the “Statement not insured under the Wlz”, twice.
However! I cannot find how high the amount for the national insurance contributions is, I am registered with the SVB as having emigrated to Thailand, and from the Municipal Personal Records Database (BRP).
Aduard, then you only pay wage tax (= income tax) and no national insurance and no health insurance. So it's okay.
Thanks Erik, everything is clear, this also explains that there was no response from SVB. Thumbs up for you.
Do you also know what you pay in the second installment and when it starts . I live in Laos but am Dutch tax scam because Laos is not a treaty country.
The reduction of the AOW pension seems to indicate that the SVB is of the opinion that you live in Thailand.
Something that is probably right.
In the past I have wondered how good the control would be if you, as a Dutch person, officially live in another European country, but in practice in Thailand.
This check apparently works for Belgium.
There is no reduction in the AOW, but a deduction. You have a discount, for example, if you have not accrued 100% AOW due to a stay abroad during the accrual years and/or if you live in a non-treaty country for the AOW, such as Cambodia. The case of Niek is that he is in any case registered for the state pension as a resident of Belgium and that is why the health insurance premium is withheld. If registered as a resident of Thailand, no deduction for this insurance would have taken place, but then you would not have been able to invoke it; in the case of Niek if he stays in Belgium.
The amount of 247,13 Euro is close to what I remember from , if you are a non-resident tax resident.
Although I could be wrong about that.
If you emigrate to Thailand from the Netherlands, you are a non-resident taxpayer.
But what about if you officially live in Belgium, but actually live in Thailand?
I assume that the Netherlands will then treat you as a foreign taxpayer and say that emigration to Belgium is a sham construction to avoid tax.
Subsequently, brilliant lawsuits at a high level can then probably be conducted.
I have meanwhile skyped to the CAK, which is referred to in the letter from the SVB, and they told me that since Belgium is a treaty country (and Thailand is not), Dutch people living in Belgium are subject to European legislation, which stipulates that the basic healthcare premium is paid by the Netherlands, if your income also originates there, and is deducted from the AOW pension. But I have been insured in Belgium for years and for a much cheaper rate than what is now deducted from my AOW in the form of that contribution from the Zvw.
The medical expenses are then reimbursed by the CAK to the Belgian insurer.
To get rid of my (much smaller) health insurance premium with the Belgian insurer, I have to register with them with a certain S-form, which is sent by the CAK.
All in all, I am therefore considerably worse off because I am obliged to pay my basic health insurance premium in the Netherlands, which is much higher than the premium that I had to pay with the Belgian health insurer.
Another injustice in my opinion is the deduction of payroll tax from my AOW pension while I pay tax on the same pension in Belgium, which is contrary to the law to prevent double taxation between treaty countries, I would say.
There is no injustice at all but your ignorance. For example, if you receive a pension from Belgium as a retired Belgian and you live in the Netherlands, you therefore owe the lower amount of Belgian health care premium and must pay this in Belgium, as you indicate, the premium in Belgium is lower than in the Netherlands.
And if you pay double tax somewhere, you can simply reclaim it in 1 of the 2 treaty countries, in the end you only pay 1 time.
Going backwards is another thing. If you did not receive a state pension before and now you do, you will still benefit greatly.
This is my response to Nick's last comment.
Hallo,
I have lived abroad for 5 years and receive a reduction of 2% per year x5 because I have not paid social security contributions. If you want to get the full 100%, you should have paid these costs every month.
With greeting
Amber
I live in France. So deregistered from the Netherlands.
My state pension is transferred gross/net.
So no payroll tax is withheld because I pay tax on my state pension in France.
You have to arrange this yourself with the tax authorities !!
What remains: ZVW, AWBZ, country of residence factor deductions.
Hans, when living in France, France has the right to levy on the NL AOW. That's what it says in the treaty. You can request an exemption from payroll tax from the NL tax authorities.