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Home » Reader question » Reader question: Stalemate Belgian taxes and non-residents
Reader question: Stalemate Belgian taxes and non-residents
Dear readers,
A friend of mine who is retired and lives in Hua Hin has the following incident with the tax authorities. In his annual tax return, he always uses code 1073 in order to benefit from all deductions.
For the 2018 tax year, the tax authorities have wrongly changed this code to code 1081 so that some deductions are canceled and he suddenly has to pay 744 Euro instead of getting 571 Euro back. Just a difference of 1325 Euro.
His accountant has responded to this and the tax authorities send him the following reply:
It is possible that you earn money in Thailand through stocks, real estate, etc. Only a Thai statement that you have no income there or a Thai tax statement can provide a definite answer about your worldwide income.
He has been to the Regional Revenue Office in Hua Hin (soi 88) to ask them for an explanation. To get this he must have an appraisal number and to have an appraisal number he must have income in Thailand and he does not have that. This looks like a stalemate.
Does anyone have advice?
Regards,
Robert
This is Kafka at his best. For example, I now have to prove that I have my domicile in Belgium and not in Thailand, as the Dutch tax authorities have decided because somewhere they considered my postal address as a residential address.
because you get stamps in your passport every time you enter and leave thailand, it doesn't seem that difficult to prove that thailand is your primary residence.
Of course if you want a tax statement here you will have to pay taxes. If you are 65+, you have many tax benefits here. You pay a pittance of what you pay in Belgium or the Netherlands.
In fact, you cheated on your tax return.
Fraud? Claiming a deduction is not fraud; feel free to ask. Furthermore, you have no choice under a tax treaty: the income is taxed in country 1 or in country 2 or in both countries.
The deduction only applies if you pay tax in another country. Now you are essentially evading taxes.
If your friend has a bank account here in Thailand, he can apply for a tax number at the tax office in Hua Hin. He owes tax on the interest he receives on his account. He then has to go to his bank, and say that he needs a signed and stamped paper for the tax office here. He then goes to the tax office with this paper and receives a tax number. We have also done it this way.
Have also thought of this, but you must receive a minimum amount of interest annually for it to become taxable. I thought the limit was quite high. In any case, thanks, I will inform the bank about this.
As far as I know the minimum amount is 10 baht in interest.
I'm over it and pay taxes.
But just stepping after your couch and asking is also an idea.
code 1073-91 and code 1081-83 were BOTH available on Tax on web last year...
1081-83 ticked resulted in my case on a normal annual outcome, although I did not receive any deductions as a deregistered Belgian pensioner, and did not receive any question from the tax authorities for taxation number…. (also not possible as there is some tax by Belgium via pension).
Or has that declaration been changed by administration to 1081-83 is that what you mean? In that case it is an “administrative change of declaration” by the tax audit itself.
My friend had filled in 1073 and the administration sent him a tax bill with code 1081 with the result that there are fewer deductions so that he has to pay 1325 Eur more taxes. His accountant has lodged an objection and the tax authorities have replied that he must provide a statement from the Thai tax authorities that he has no income here. This service has refused this because he is not a tax resident in Thailand. Stalemate !
I have also filled in this code 1073-91 as all years and as all years never 1081, so far I have not received my assessment letter yet, I will inform you if I receive it this year, they have time until December 31, 2019, normally this comes around May or June. Box 13 code 1057-10 and 2057-77 there is a statement that they have not obtained any income, why now suddenly a statement from the Regional revenue office, or tax office in Bangkok. There is a problem .
@jani careni
If desired , you can already consult your assessment notice online on MyPension , I have not yet received mine on paper , but I have been able to request and print it online for more than 1 month .
It therefore concerns the tax year 2018. That is the tax return that you file in 2019. Those declarations were only closed a few months ago and he has already received his statement? There's something wrong. By the way, that 'friend', if he lives in Hua Hin, must file a tax return for 'taxpayers not living in Belgium'. This declaration, for tax year 2019, income 2018, has not even been opened yet. This takes place during September. So the information is incorrect. In the tax return of last year, so tax year 2018, income 2017, there was a big mistake in the tax return. By the way, this was covered on the blog. This error was rectified very quickly and did not lead to a higher final bill.
A story that starts with: 'a friend' makes me rub my nose all the time. That 'friend' is often the person himself and then be suspicious because often there is not much of it.
@Lung addie
Must be tax bill 2019 and of income 2018 (tax bill = the result or the "account", income the earning year!
Otherwise I would not have been able to view mine in Mypension online, as ekTax on web will only open for us foreigners from September 13th.
I do not speak of a declaration, I speak of the assessment year 2018 = income 2017
Robert, have you filled in these codes, code 1057-10 and in case for your wife if she has no income code 2057-77. Or maybe if in Thailand a civil servant who searches and finds something, that is also possible, if necessary write a mail to the cabinet of Minister De Croo.
I thought that when you were deregistered in Belgium, you no longer had to pay taxes there?
if your income is Belgian you have to pay taxes in Belgium, so for example if you have a state pension you pay taxes in Belgium, + solidarity tax + municipal tax even if you live in Thailand and you are deregistered in Belgium; they call that democracy! I call that legal theft.
You can't do anything at the tax office in HH there, they have a decent laugh with farang .. (my experience).
You can ask yourself who the Aliens are in their numerous epistles.
If you do not have a securities account linked to your bank account, then you just ask your bank for proof.. you have it translated into English and voila ...
You can probably obtain a statement that you have no further income in Thailand at the town hall / city hall of your place of residence (and preferably accompanied by someone who understands Thai and English), you will have to provide two witnesses to confirm this statement .
Have everything translated in the translation office on Phetkasem Rd.. and email it..
furthermore, you should tell the tax office in your home country that it is strictly forbidden by Thai law to work here as a pensioner or to have extra income under penalty of prison and deportation for life. you will also depend on a year extension and that has been revoked here in the event of a violation of the law.
Also send a photocopy of your annual renewal and of the TM6 card in your Passport.
And what you can also do is submit an objection regarding this, so I would certainly do that, but six months after sending the date on the assessment notice.
Address ; Abroad / Boulevard du Jardin Botanique 50B 3409 / 1000 Brussels.
Good luck… I have also experienced a few things with those zwanzers in “Flanders”.
Dear Robert,
Belastingdienst in Belgium, Marc965 hits the nail on the head with the last sentence. Kafka at its best.
They sit there in their ivory towers, thinking they are omniscient. But man…
Greetings,
I had the same problem, received 609 euros last year and had to pay 680 euros this year, without anything changing in the personal situation. Code 1073 is the problem. What can you do about it?
I think you should respond and either call or send an email to ask for an explanation and maybe you can rectify the matter or at least know what to do in the next few years.
First of all: I have clients in the US and Curaçao as far as Thailand, the Philippines and Japan and in many countries in between, but the Belgian tax system is the worst you can encounter as a tax specialist!
I do not think the conduct of the Belgian assessment official is correct. Your friend has filed a report and ticked code 6-1073 in section A, 91. I suspect that is also correct. The case officer doubts the correctness of this and personally changes it to code 1081-83. And I don't think that's right. If in doubt on his or her part, your friend should have been given the opportunity to demonstrate the correctness of the code he chose (1073-91). But will this ultimately make much of a difference? A big chance not!
The Belgian tax system has three categories for non-residents. You belong to:
1. the 1st category if the following two conditions are met:
– you have received taxable professional income that amounts to at least 75% of all your professional income obtained in that tax year from Belgian and foreign
origin (75% rule of world income), and
– you were a tax resident of a 'Member State of the European Economic Area other than Belgium' during the entire tax year.
Depending on the situation, you tick the codes 6-1093, 71-1094 or 70-1095 in section A, 69.
2. the 2nd category if you only meet the condition referred to in the first indent of point 1 above, i.e. if you:
– meets the 75% rule, but
– was not a resident of a 'Member State of the European Economic Area, other than Belgium'.
In that case you have to tick code 1073-91.
3. the 3rd category if you do not meet the 75% rule, as referred to in point 1 above. In that case you cannot belong to either the 1st category or the 2nd category. You may therefore not tick any code from section A, 6.
In that case, if you are not a resident of France, the Netherlands or Luxembourg, you must tick the code 1081-83 of section A, 8. You then fall under a less favorable tax system (fewer deductions).
And the latter has now happened with regard to your friend due to a change made too prematurely by the tax officer in charge.
What the tax officer is allowed to do is ask your friend to actually demonstrate the correctness of his statement that 75% of his worldwide income is taxed in Belgium. To this end, this official asks (afterwards) for a Thai statement regarding the income received in Thailand.
A response that it is not that difficult to prove that Thailand is your primary residence is irrelevant. After all, the Belgian tax authorities already assume that because they do not ask for a certificate of tax residency in Thailand (form RO 22).
The same applies to obtaining a tax number based on his bank account and the interest earned and taxed on it. Having a tax number says nothing about any income generated in Thailand. Such a number does not even say anything about being a tax resident of Thailand. This also applies to paying tax on interest income in Thailand.
This only concerns determining his worldwide income and whether it is correct that the 75% requirement is met. Nothing more and nothing less!
And then a problem arises: the Revenue Office refuses to issue a statement RO 21. Reason: your friend does not pay Personal Income Tax (PIT) in Thailand. The fact that he is formally taxable in Thailand (without – possibly – a payment obligation) does not make any difference to them.
In that context, it is difficult for me to place a given reaction of committing (tax) fraud. I assume that far away most of your friend's income is taxed in Belgium. If there is still something left for Thailand to tax, Thailand has a range of deductions or reductions. This applies even more if your friend is already 65 years old. In addition, the PIT has a 0% rate for the first 150.000 THB of taxable income. Most likely this will all lead to a nil attack.
Without bringing "coffee money" for the Thai tax official (which I always advise my clients against because this is punishable even in Thailand), there are no Thai tax officials who want to accept your return, let alone process it and here an attack to be issued. In that case it is "difficult" to speak of fraud!
If your friend lived in the Philippines, he would have it a lot easier:
1. not Belgium but the Philippines would then be entitled to levy tax on his Belgian pension;
2. Subsequently, the Philippines shall not impose income tax on foreign residents on income the source of which is outside the Philippines;
3. Obtaining an income statement from the Philippine Tax Authorities (the BIR) is usually very smooth.
Belgium with Thailand on one side and the Philippines on the other makes a world of difference!
But now that the Revenue Office refuses to cooperate, you cannot put this problem on the plate of the Belgian Tax Authorities. This Service may ask your friend to prove the correctness of his claim, namely that the 75% requirement is met. Your friend may then use all available means to prove that he does not generate income in Thailand.
But don't come up with the claim that you are not allowed to work in Thailand under Thai law without a work permit, which I also read in a response. There are plenty of ways to generate income in Thailand without a work permit.
Now that the case officer has already dug in so deeply by establishing an assessment that deviates from the declaration, I have a hard head that this official will reduce the assessment that has already been imposed without the statement from the competent tax authority of Thailand. .
If your friend still wants to continue with this matter, I would advise him not to leave this further to his accountant, but to hire a tax specialist, specialized in international tax law and preferably with knowledge of the practice in Thailand, in to take the arm. On the basis of practical examples, he may be able to persuade the assessment officer to change his mind. But that is more of a favor than a right!
Incidentally, with regard to the 1st category of taxpayers, the 75% rule applied by Belgium to residents of a 'Member State of the European Economic Area other than Belgium' is contrary to EU law. However, the same also applies to the requirement of even 90% applied by the Netherlands!
@Lammert de Haan.
There is a demand for the solution of a problem related to the tax authorities in Flanders, problems that only increase every year thanks to the politically created fragmentation of Belgium, the tax authorities who feel called upon to play the almighty, add or omit codes ( bullying rules) and therefore acts at its own discretion, if that is the rule no one has to fill in a tax letter anymore.
In my above message I indicated how I managed to get it done as described there after many emails with the tax authorities. (so with regard to Thai legislation regarding working as a foreigner (retired) and the possible consequences of this).
Apparently in your argument above you wish to dismiss that as nonsense.
If there is no longer any trust between the state and its inhabitants, you are in a real dictatorship and citizens no longer have to comply with the rules. at least that's my thought.
I'm not a tax expert, but if I want something I go for it and I've been able to solve everything so far.. yes. and if you have to consult and pay a (tax specialist, specialized in international tax law), then you better leave everything kif / kif because that does not weigh up at all against a few € 100 to pay on your tax invoice.
What you can still try is the tax headquarters in Bkk. That was also suggested to me, but I didn't have to try that in my case.
And also I would write a letter to the cabinet of the competent Minister about these remarkable situations .. if it does not benefit, it does not harm. Because, in my opinion, a tax letter is still a personally signed document in all good conscience and others do not have to complain about that without permission.
Best regards.