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Home » Reader question » Reader question: Longer than 8 months from the Netherlands
Dear readers,
If you are on holiday abroad for more than 8 months, in this case here in Thailand, what are the consequences? I know that you are legally obliged to unsubscribe, but I will stay about 2 months longer than the 8 months due to the Corona crisis. For example, are you approached about this by the Marechaussee in the Netherlands?
I read somewhere that you have to pay a fine of about 380 euros?
Does anybody have experience with this?
Regards,
Max
Answer is No, if you have a valid EU passport you can come and go as often as you like. The task of the Marechaussee at Schiphol is border control. The 380,- fine is not known to me, and certainly does not apply to you.
I have neatly sent an email to the municipality where my brother lives (have his address as a postal address) with this question.
No problem. This is force majeure. No fine or anything.
But yes, as soon as you give someone a gun things can change in the face.
That even applies if you put on someone a BOA monkey suit.
Here, too, people succumb to the weight of the epoulet.
Max, you write 'when' so it won't be that far yet. What are you paying attention to contacting the municipality of residence by the time this threatens? Then you have certainty about the policy there. Force majeure is demonstrable I assume so why would the municipality deregister you?
If you do not contact us and they realize that you will be gone for more than 8 months, the municipality can deregister you and the health insurer will be notified, and not only them. Then a lot of misery will come your way and that can be prevented by timely reporting and consultation. Make sure there is a written record of this; e-mail with an official is then sufficient.
You have nothing to fear at Schiphol. The Marechaussee has other things to do.
In this case, an (administrative) fine can only be imposed by your municipality. This is then due to a violation of the regulations of the BRP (Basic Registration of Persons Act).
One of the obligations is to report if you EXPECTED to stay abroad for 12 months in a period of 8 months. See eg https://www.sso3w.nl/onze-diensten/voorlichting-medewerker-en-gezinsleden/praktische-informatie-voorbereiding-op-een-plaatsing/overplaatsing-van-naar-een-post/veelgestelde-vragen-over-de-basisregistratie-personen
Unfortunately, the national government is EXPECTED to omit this from some of its sites. E.g. on https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen/privacy-en-persoonsgegevens/vraag-en-antwoord/uitschrijven-basisregistratie-personen
Should there ever be a fine, contest it, e.g. by invoking force majeure. Timely consultation with your municipality can often do no harm, although it can make overzealous officials think (wrong).
The Marechaussee at Schiphol is indeed border control. They check the validity of your passport and see if you are registered somewhere for outstanding fines or on a search list. They really don't check how long you've been out of the Netherlands. They don't look at stamps from other countries.
You will not have any problems upon arrival in the Netherlands, but with the excuse that you could not come back, you may. KLM has flown people back from Bangkok to Amsterdam from the start. All you had to do is book a ticket and get on in Bangkok.
Max and also for the others…since November 2019, EVERY citizen is tracked when leaving the EU and returning !! Leaving Belgium or Germany is not an option to stay out of harm's way. .Away for more than 8 months? Go off the bells and whistles. What they do with it, I don't know, but you can lose everything, your BSN number, your home and health insurance and it's all over again. Even looking for a new home puts you at the bottom. Too bad I lost this piece from the government newspaper. In this case it is force majeure and no measures will be taken, but when everything turns back to normal, watch out for longer than 8 months to disappear from Holland. Is a law from 1896, it's about time it was abolished.
Reference please. It seems pretty out of the blue to me.
Nothing is scanned at many border crossings. How would they keep up?
Monkey sandwich?
@willem, The Netherlands is a member of the EU and therefore any change in your personal circumstances will be passed on to all other EU countries. Address change, pension application, old age pension and so on. Really everything. Been there, done that.
Well, Theo, you can certainly substantiate that. Until then, I don't believe it at all.
Eduard, in this case it is not force majeure, because KLM continued to fly and every Dutch person who wanted to could fly back.
TnT, force majeure is not the criterion, is it? The law says to the question “..When do I have to deregister when leaving the Netherlands?” the following:
“..You must deregister if you expect to stay abroad for at least 12 months within a 8-month period. This period does not have to be consecutive. Failure to deregister is a criminal offense and can lead to problems upon return…”
Well, that expectation was not there! Mister just went on a trip and then suddenly there comes that corona. On the other hand, the municipality will state that Mr. may not have done his utmost to return within 8 months. But maybe there were other things like illness or something.
I think it is best for the gentleman to contact his municipality of residence to ask about the policy. And otherwise there is no other option than to go to NL (for a while) in mid-August. By then it will be flying again.
Eduard's comment that you lose your BSN seems incorrect to me; after all, you will stay in the Netherlands. If NL is your only nationality, you won't just lose it; then there must be more to it.
This story seems pretty silly to me.
May I point out that someone, for example, never loses his or her BSN?
In principle, you will not lose your home if you continue to pay the mortgage or rent properly. If you do not want to run the risk of losing your (rental) home during a longer stay abroad (think of the checks that municipalities currently carry out on illegal residence) and, for example, want to make legal subletting possible for that period: ask the homeowner permission for house keeping. This is usually given once for one or two years.
The health insurance fund no longer exists. That is now the health insurance that everyone who is registered in NL simply has (and must pay).
How can you lose your BSN number.
I have been staying in Thailand for more than 15 years for 12 months a year, have been deregistered from the Netherlands since time immemorial and have and keep my BSN number, even my Digi D is still possible.
My BSN number is even mentioned in all my renewed passports during this stay.
And do you know why, because you still have Dutch citizenship.
And how can you lose your house if this is your full property, your lease contract when renting maybe if they don't hear from you anymore and no longer receive rent.
Jan Beute.
There is no legal basis whatsoever for a fine when entering and exiting as a Dutch citizen in your own country, and in all countries of the EU. Citizens of an EU country are also European citizens in accordance with the EU Charter. It is slightly different with being registered in the BRP (formerly: population register) as a resident. You are not legally required to register. Being a resident is not a duty or a right, but a beneficiary, and you must meet all kinds of requirements, such as a permanent address or postal address and the 8-month notification, to which numerous exceptions apply. Residents fall - among other things - under compulsory health insurance and can appeal to all kinds of schemes such as assistance, allowances, etc., and they can easily renew their passport and driver's license, open a bank account, etc. Are you not registered (your own choice or officially deregistered? ) then you will not immediately lose your Dutch citizenship, so no problems or fines when traveling in and out. After all, you can decide for yourself in which country you want to live, as long as the government knows how to reach you (regarding tax authorities, state pension, pension, call for elections, etc.). The municipality can deregister someone whose residence status cannot be determined after a thorough investigation, from the BRP under the title: VOW (Departed Unknown Where To). In that case, after warnings and investigation, and not earlier than after a year, the passport can also be eventually withdrawn. With that you lose your Dutch citizenship and you can become stateless. You could be refused entry at Schiphol. A number of proceedings have been carried out on this matter up to the EU Court. Because of the major consequences of such a decision, the highest EU court of law has determined that such a measure goes against the basic rights from the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the ECHR. So you have to make it very furry before it comes to that.
Making an address declaration, reporting a move and departure abroad are indeed obligations that the NL law imposes on everyone.
In the past, this was based on the willingness of citizens to arrange this themselves.
Nowadays, administrative fines can be imposed. As said by the municipality.
Municipalities think they can deregister someone administratively (and do so regularly, a process of several months). In principle, this is not correct and can certainly be challenged if anyone finds out at any time that this has taken place.
It is of course better not to let it get that far, to think carefully about your choices and to take the necessary steps yourself in good time.
Keep in mind that almost all authorities assume that the basic registration (BRP) is correct. And that all kinds of rights and obligations depend on that registration (think of AOW, tax, health insurance, etc.).
Sorry Peter, but this is pure nonsense and scare tactics, you will not lose your Dutch citizenship and you will not become stateless if you stay abroad for a long time, provided you do not have dual nationality.
People with dual nationality can lose their Dutch citizenship if they do not renew their passport in time, every 10 years.
I won't go into the rest of what you wrote.
It is not a problem for the Marechaussee at Schiphol.
But don't know if you need medical help here, with your ZKV, they have their own rules, look at your policy conditions.
The AOW also has its own rules, which I do know. If you are going away for longer than 3 months, you must pass it on, they will allow it, but want to know which country, whether that country is a treaty country or belongs to the EU .
Hans van Mourik.
PS
https://www.kernpuntnederbetuwe.nl/is/werk-en-inkomen/uitkeringen/vakantie-en-buitenland/vakantie-doorgeven/aow-en-vakantie
Hans.van.Mourik
There may be 2 things at play if you stay abroad for more than 8 months.
Not only the municipality in the event of a stay abroad of 8 months, but if you postpone your return for more than 2 months instead of 4 months, the NL health insurance will also play a role after 1 year of stay abroad.
Regarding the first: better play it safe and contact your municipality in NL in advance and invoke force majeure; reasonably good in this case. Request an email response so that you can .
can invoke this, if necessary.
In the unlikely event that you do not stay abroad for 10 months, but longer than 1 year, the NL health insurer can no longer keep the insurance valid. You must then request a WLZ statement from the SVB.
Dear Max,
If you stay abroad for more than 8 months or live abroad, you must register with the RNI (Registration of Non Residents).
https://www.rvig.nl/brp/rni
In your case, however, there is force majeure, so I wouldn't worry too much about it.
Moreover, the rule is that you must stay in the Netherlands for at least 4 months a year, but you cannot find anywhere what the consequences are if you do not comply.
The only thing is that you apparently fall into the status of Spookburger.
I suspect it could have something to do with your health insurance policy which may then expire, but I'm guessing, I don't know, but that is something that could possibly play a role. However, I was never able to find anything about it myself.
I also hope that you can return to health soon.
Best regards. Bz
This is not a sandwich monkey story, I unfortunately no longer have a piece from the state newspaper, but the competent authorities know exactly when someone leaves and arrives again! You can read it on Pi-NL. I'm surprised so few people know about this. If you have deregistered from Holland, you have nothing to do with the 8-month rule.
Dear Eduard, you are right, if you have unsubscribed there is no problem. In this case it is apparently about someone who has not been deregistered!. Then the PI-NL system comes into effect according to you. (I may be mistaken) But this system is designed to combat terrorism and serious crime!!!.
So how high do you estimate the chance that the civil registrar somewhere in the Netherlands or anywhere else will find out that you have been away a little longer?
Even at the authority responsible for supervising it, no one will wake up and wonder whether or not someone has stayed away any longer.
Dear HarryN, in conclusion, otherwise it will become a chat site, and they are not waiting for that.
I know from inside information that the WIA benefit agency can already access this data, which means that several agencies can use it. The government wants to trace everyone. The plastic money in the future is a crime for citizens. I just want to make it clear that if you have a jealous neighbor because you are staying in Thailand for about 20 months at a time and report yourself, I am convinced that the municipality will simply deregister you and your house will be evacuated. I have nothing to hide, but if they soon find out that you buy a pack of cigarettes a week, then the health insurance knows that you smoke, maybe a tenner more per month.? In short, we are being held hostage and that does not belong in a democracy and we take everything like sheep. That law from 1 about those 1896 months must be abolished, but it will not happen, because then we are "searched", and that means not the government. Let everyone take their own responsibility. Have a nice day.
What scaremongering.
I recently called the IND about a Thai mother-in-law who was stranded here in NL.
Sir, you have nothing to worry about. We also know that there is corona. You do not have to come to an IND desk with your mother-in-law. Send us an email with your mother-in-law's details and the Visa will be extended, no need to panic.
And it will also be the other way around, when someone comes back to NL with a Dutch passport during this corona crisis and he / she would have overwritten the 8 months.
Still not convinced?
Well, then you say you're late because you were sick and self-quarantined and therefore couldn't fly back earlier (you don't want to infect anyone on the plane anyway).
Dear Raymonf, this is absolutely not scaremongering and your comparison with your Thai mother-in-law and the IND is about on par with comparing apples and oranges.
Everyone has to take their own responsibility and if Max wants to stay in Thailand longer than August, he will take that risk himself and then know the possible consequences, that was also what he wanted to know here with his question on Thailandblog.