Dear readers,
I'm having more and more trouble accepting my in-laws. It's never enough and they always want more. This causes tension between my Thai girlfriend and me. Now I know that most on this Thailand blog will shout: stop with that bite. I don't like that kind of advice. That is always possible.
Little by little we are renovating the house of my girlfriend's parents. My girlfriend saves for that and so do I. I understand that those people are poor and would like to have it better. Recently we had a piece built near the house for more space and had the roof renewed. It is not yet finished or the wishes for the new renovation are already on the table. Thank you is never there.
They think that every farang is rich. I'm not that. I am employed and have to work hard for my money. My girlfriend sells food at markets and earns quite a bit from it. I do not agree with her that she saves the most money for her parents and not for our future. She transfers 3.000 baht a month and pays for the renovation of the house. And she has her own costs too. So little remains and everything has to come from me. I'll help her, but I'm tired of it now because it never ends anyway.
Now the floor needs to be hardened again. The roof of the extension on the other side is bad and must also be replaced.
How do other farangs deal with that? Isn't it better to set a budget? So agree not to pay more than 20.000 baht a year for renovations to her parents' house?
Please advice from expats with experience in this kind of business.
Sincerely,
Ron
You should never expect a thank you in Thai culture. It is no more than normal for the Thai that you do all these things! And to give you some advice, give nothing for a year and see where you are then, you are as the payer, the one who determines how and when something is done to the house. Before you were in the picture, they also did these kinds of things. Probably not !!!! Don't want to be a doom thinker for you, but you can always pay yet !! And you are not obliged to renovate, do that yourself out of the mindset that it is normal, ask yourself would you also do that here for your parents-in-law, you are not Sinterklaas !!!
Hi Arianda,
Miracles are not yet out of the world, my Thai mother-in-law called me and thanked me very much, because I gave her a vacuum cleaner and gave her material to cover her concrete floor in the house. So in Thai culture there are also people who just say thank you and be grateful. My mother-in-law has never asked me for anything. While she really doesn't have it wide. Regarding making it clear to in-laws or family,. just make it clear that not every falaqng is rich. Also clearly agree on what may go to the parents monthly in money. and do not deviate from it. Keep your leg up. Otherwise the fence is off the dam. I spoke very clearly about this beforehand with my wife and made it clear to her that I am absolutely not wealthy.
My idea: You give what you can spare and what you can't spare, you don't give. My girlfriend often replies to requests for money: I don't have it, and that's it. Don't waste too many words. Simply: I don't have it. Period. Explaining is pointless. Shrug shoulders and keep breathing. Let them whine.
Just let your girlfriend arrange it. Give her a fixed budget per month and that's it. Explaining that she can save that for herself, but if she gives it all away to her family, nothing will be left for her, simple enough. Then your girlfriend will sometimes complain 'I have no money', but that is simply her own fault. As long as you keep giving, it will indeed never end.
You run into a fundamental difference in a relationship with a Thai. You think saving for later when you are old. She thinks, make children quickly and ensure that they have a good job for when we are old. She doesn't see the point of saving for later because she's already counting on your kids to come up with money later.
There are so many more things like that. My girlfriend sometimes complains about buying land for when we would later live in Thailand. To which I always answer that it won't happen. Does she come up with the plan to take out a mortgage to buy land now, because land 'only go up up up'….. Then try to explain that you can borrow an amount X at 7% interest on an annual basis. can yield a very expensive piece of land in 20 years, and that if your neighbor happens to put a loud disco next to it, then 'up up up' can also become 'up down down'. In addition to the fact that your money is tied up in land and not in a liquid asset. (and apart from property rights…..) If you also explain that if you put amount X in an account and receive interest on interest, then the puzzle is completely complete. And then it starts all over again “honey I see land for sale….”
In any case, keep your own finances in your own hands. Provide her with some money for living expenses, etc., all fine, but set a limit and let her arrange the money for her parents herself.
Dear Ron,
If co-paying, for example, for the maintenance of the in-laws and/or renovations, has all become too much of a good thing, then you have actually already passed what you consider pleasant.
I've made it clear to my wife and in-laws from the start that I'm not the one paying for anything. First I explained that to my wife when we got to know each other. Then with her to in-laws at those times when money was asked. Not a dismissive or dismissive “no”, but an explanation that I had no intention of giving or lending money. Without mentioning how or why. Just stated my point of view: I am not a bank of loans. One didn't like it and started gossiping, the other appreciated it and left it at that. Eventually people got used to the situation.
Now, for example, if we all go to a restaurant together, he/she will pay for the invitation, or we will all put together a hut with a mutje.
When we go shopping at the Big C and family members come along, I don't want them to put their groceries in my shopping cart. All sources of misunderstanding.
But when my father-in-law died, my wife and I, along with two of her wealthiest sisters in the family, paid the most in expenses.
Sometimes we take a nephew/niece on holiday; sometimes we go with him/her to the big city. Everyone will get their turn.
Personally I think that farang go way too far in their generosity. In the beginning everyone is nice and nice, playing the good Frits, afraid of losing face himself, not wanting to offend the new relationship, not skilled enough to say no, not being able to explain to the other what is bothering him about these kinds of phenomena sit, and so on.
Plenty of reasons not to avoid asking for money from others.
But: if you are always willing to please people and give them the idea that everything is possible, then they will not inform those who come to you whether everything is still possible. That is simply assumed for the sake of convenience. The partner's behavior confirms that it is allowed. She gives approval and consent.
Meanwhile, your annoyance grows. Ditto the misunderstanding in the relationship and with in-laws. So you will have to clarify yourself.
Start by making a plan together. Involve her fully in your entire financial picture regarding your relationship, the future as you see it with her, and how you see the position of the in-laws. Make her co-responsible for that future. She is equal in your relationship. Tell her what you think about transferring money, about those payments, tell her what you think is reasonable and what is possible in your circumstances. Also tell her what you think is not constructive.
Also let her define what she thinks is reasonable, what she finds constructive, and try to find consensus together. So you will have to start in the relationship before you can edit the in-laws. Since their expectations have risen sharply, you can assume that it won't be easy.
Most importantly, agree on how you will communicate to family together in the future, and avoid either you or your partner being seen as the bad guy. Be clear and pull together!
Good luck, Ruud
It's very simple and easy. It is their daughter and their property and everything that belongs to the daughter is also theirs. In their eyes, they only ask for a small portion each in proportion to what you give to yourself and their daughter.
Dear, I also have this problem, more and more money is being asked for and when I ask what it is all necessary for, I get the most stupid things, because I never see renovations happening.
Need money for a new rice machine for the land, but when I go to look afterwards I still see the same old rusty machines, when I ask why the rice is not being sold, the answer is that they are waiting for the price looks good. I try to explain to them that a rice farmer who does not sell his rice is not a trader either, a business must keep rolling otherwise you better stop if you only have to put money into it, sell all that trade, and then you will get you answer, that she will get all the land later and that they are worth a lot, when I see those lands, I only see a piece of wild nature.
Worst of all, despite the fact that I have already given a lot, I never see a change in their standard of living. I know when I'm not there that father drinks and mother buys gold, they do what they want, but when I stay there they will ask for money for the water and electricity you use while you are there. I really think that about it, and while I then go to the supermarket with my girlfriend to provide them with things that they never buy themselves. I often say to her, I want to do everything for her and our child to give them a good to give life, but her parents only want to have money for it and not to improve their lives, because I never see any change in their existence, and according to me willingly said no change either. But buying gold for them is a sign of power and being able to compete against the others.
Hi Pascal,
Just a fixed amount per month, if you want to give something, but clearly state that this is the maximum and they will continue to collect their own pants.
In clear language to parents-in-law and wife and your life will then become a bit calmer.
It will not immediately be thanked, but you should just shrug your shoulders for that.
Courage,
Louise
Even if you have a lot of money, why should you have to support your Thai in-laws? Let them go to work. Recently, a friend's father was bitten by a Cobra while working in the fields and had to be hospitalized. Didn't look good. They had no money to pay the bill but didn't ask me anything. The message got through and I asked how much does the hospital cost. Answer 3000 baht. Well I think we like to pay. Made me feel good. They were very grateful to me. So don't make a habit of it. Give when it suits you and for things that you see the benefit of.
Maybe they had a 50 bt card then she didn't have to pay anything. If not, the family can request it in the hospital. Always take the ID card with you. That must be for the hospital.
Most Thais know that because it is about money hence
Hello.
I think with your 20000bt budget you will get even more misery. Have you ever looked at the current prices in Thailand? After all, maintaining the in-laws is the social security that you cannot avoid. I've been living in Thailand for 18 years and I'm pretty sure that this is part of the whole thing.
Moderator: Comments without initial capitals and periods at the end of a sentence will not be posted.
I completely agree with Dick van der Lugt. You can't give what isn't there! My wife's brothers and sisters all have reasonable jobs with a similar income. It's not our problem that they can't handle it. My wife has made it clear to them from the start that there is not much to be gained from us, with the result that money is never asked for. Only mothers we send a small amount every month (with all our love). We are now almost 20 years later and within the family we still get on well together, without nagging about money! They can of course count on us in an emergency, but we would also do the same for the Dutch side.
You are not married to the "followers" so don't give a single cent. If you make financial agreements, hang on to them.
I live just like in the Netherlands, treat my wife as a Dutch person, can get her a nice dress, shoes or something and that's it.
Farang spoiled the ladies themselves by giving them eg 10,000.00 / 20,000.00 BHT monthly as pocket money.
Like a wildfire goes among the friends how much "her Farang" gives and then comes the nagging.
So just don't give anything at all and live a good life together!
I have no problems and have a very best wife whom I definitely appreciate in everything.
Yes Ron, it's difficult, making an agreement about how much everyone contributes seems best to me, and you can't give what you don't have, I wouldn't go into debt for this anyway, unless the house is yours . In any case, dose your contributions if you don't have such a fat piggy bank and explain that you can't support half of Thailand, not even a falang.
My girlfriend and I are also building a house in Thailand, it is her property on inherited land, and her mother lives in and her daughter of course. I help her and pay for most things that need to be done or purchased, and I always hear Thank you felly much! she has never asked for anything and her family, 2 sisters live close by, neither, so yes, it's not the same everywhere. I gave what she has of my own will, building a house costs money (and time and patience in Thailand!) And looking back, you hardly have a garage for the money that a Thai house costs here in NL, but I dose it is and she also knows it is gone.
A falang is indeed always seen as rich, and there is something in that, some tourists spend on 1 evening what they earn per month, so that idea is not that crazy. In her village they think it's strange that I go to a shop on foot and not on a moped, which is actually not possible if you have (supposed) money.
Anyway, best wishes and good luck!
I immediately said to my girlfriend: I don't lend money to anyone, let alone give money. So that was very clear.
And if I can help once in a while, I will, but for a USEFUL purpose. Like eg English class.
You have to bear in mind that they very quickly get the idea that you have a money tree in your garden in Holland/Belgium. Because how else can you fly up and down to Thailand very regularly and/or buy/have your own house built WITHOUT financing?
It is a great pity, but a European who is going to live in Thailand can do that more easily than a Thai who is going to live/work in Europe. The latter does so to support the family. My girlfriend had a brother. So 1 of 12 crafts and 13 accidents: then another new moped, then another pick-up and nothing was successful.
So in the end just stopped transferring money….
You just have to draw your boundaries and communicate that very simply and above all clearly to your wife / girlfriend. Let them pass it on to the family.
Hi Ron. You are right. Cutting hair is not the solution, because your next (new) girlfriend and new in-laws follow the same pattern? I helped my Thai family out with 500.000 baht. Now, after 4 years, it is said that I am stingy.
Then I told my Thai family that I'm even proud of that and I'm not going to do anything to change their stingy idea about me. What matters is what your girlfriend wants with you. Remember that HER family ALWAYS comes first and you, if you're lucky, will always come in second place. That's just how Thailand is. That applies to almost every Thai(se woman). Just say you have NO money. Don't try to explain why not - they don't understand. It is already strange for most Thais that you (must) be wild at work every day ON TIME. Good luck Ron
Ron,
There is an article on this blog called isaan is booming, better read it.
Last year I visited the shoon family in Buriram, because of all those beautiful new cars and motorcycles that drove around there, it no longer gave me the feeling of being a third world region.
It would be a miracle if you can still find a contractor company there that is willing to renovate or build directly for you, with all the major construction works that are going on there, such as the building of a race circuit and sports stadium in Buriram, there is plenty of work in construction there.
I suspect your friend's parents are farmers and may own some land if so they can sell some of it to remodel their house.
And don't be fooled, because the majority of those expert expats who live in isaan are in the same boat as you and then sit on forums and blogs to color their life in isaan much better than what it really is.
Thailand is a very fast growing economy and in the industrial heart of Thailand there is a great demand for workers such as car assembly, my shoon brother and his wife work there on the assembly line in the toyota factory and earn their wages very well, even far above that. the Thai minimum wage is therefore better paid than selling food on the street or the market, maybe introduce it to your girlfriend.
Moderator: you are supposed to respond to the reader's question and not just tell your own story.
See my earlier response. I have always refused to do anything with money to my Thai in-laws or to others in Thai society, because money completely skews and out of context the relationship I want with the Thai.
In the Netherlands people say that money stinks, here in Thailand money tears people and relationships apart. If you start waving money around your in-laws, then you indicate at the same time that you do not consider the relationship with my relatives to be equal.
The most annoying effect of this is that you are only seen as someone with whom you can get something, not a real family member but a walking ATM, a madman with a money tree on his back, and so on with characterizations.
The more you give, the greater the expectation, and if it doesn't come true, the more vicious the disdain. Mind you: you took care of that yourself, and you maintain it yourself.
Of course you can help, where necessary. But do so jointly and responsibly so that the money goes where it is intended. Don't scatter the money around and play the mischievous good guy. The image is built up quickly and it will take effort to straighten that out. And further: never spend money on booze. Also something with which the attempt to become a village idol must be achieved. People don't see you as an idol, but have another letter ready at the end, as usual in the Thai alphabet.
Ron, there is only one remedy: Talk to your girlfriend about this, be clear and think in solutions.
For starters, be open about your financial situation. Let's see what you earn, what your expenses (including taxes and the like) are and what is left to spend freely. Give an example of the difference in the price level of, for example, a 5 kilo bag of rice in the Netherlands and Thailand, so that people have an idea of what you should spend your money on in the Netherlands. Do the same with her income. Discuss your joint future goals. For example, do you want to build/own a house together in 10 years and in 15 years together with “pension”. Put those pictures side by side and discuss how you will finance your goals together. Take steps to do just that; for example, open a joint savings account. Don't forget about your future father and mother-in-law. Together, determine a realistic amount, which also fits into your future perspective, as an allowance for her parents. You will reap a lot of surprised looks at first, but also understanding later. Especially if there is a growing savings balance after a few months.
This scenario has already been worked out with two couples and with both with success. Many mixed relationships get stuck on clarity and misunderstanding about finances. As you often read on this blog, this is fueled by distrust and distrust is the worst basis for a good relationship. So be clear and show (on paper) what is possible and what is not possible, based on what you want to achieve together.
Success!
I'm sorry to tell you that this is a situation that is almost unavoidable (in Thailand but also elsewhere in the world). There are exceptions, but I haven't seen them.
Whether you're dealing with a woman from Isan or the daughter of a prosperous Chinese: it's about money.
If you accept that and the money is also abundantly available, you're good. But you have to work for it (I read) and you know what the effort is and you also have to be able to live yourself.
In Thailand you are supposed to have immeasurable wealth and that is not up for debate.
The misery continues until you call it quits. That's just the way it is.
One more thing: whose money is this anyway? So the question is: who is in charge? The owner of the money or the in-laws????????????
Answer seems clear to me! However?
I have experienced that my girlfriend's aunt (!!!) had to be hospitalized. She has a daughter who is in a lot of slack (4 cars: 2 of which are for the children) and 2 houses and a son who earns more than TBH 60.000 p/m at Thai electricity company (his studies were paid for by my girlfriend at the time). So brother and sister dare to ask my girlfriend to pay their mother's hospital costs……………………!!!!!
I told my girlfriend: pay 1 TBH and I'm out! Are they completely screwed up! Draw a line in time because the idea of the money tree is very much alive. And they also know that working on instinct usually yields money.
Had some “problems” in our relationship for a while, but that was soon over.
CONCLUSION: help where you can/will but never let yourself be “forced”!
You have to set limits and conditions, otherwise they really think the sky is the limit.
And you should try to slowly separate her from mom and dad. I've had more or less the same problem. I said at the beginning that I am not an ATM and everything has limits and conditions. You don't have to accept it, but then it's over between us. Going fine now.
I would just say don't pay anything more and don't let your girlfriend pay either.
Or find another girlfriend with a family that is not after money, but you weren't waiting for that advice.
Regards kanchanaburi
Hi Ron
my advice :
Live with it, it will never change
or go 500 km further women
Greetings Koos.
A common issue that has to do with a very important local custom: relatives contribute to the maintenance of the family, especially that of the parents, but also of college nieces & nephews, grandparents, etc. This is the Eastern form of 'the network of social services', which in the West is largely provided by the government and is gradually being phased out. In the West this also existed in earlier times, but we are almost used to it. In some countries (eg Singapore and Japan) the duty of care of the parents by the children is even enshrined in law.
Anyone who has a steady relationship with a Thai person by definition becomes a member of the family, and thus of the social network of mutual obligations. Daughters have a greater obligation than sons who have to establish and maintain their own branch of the family. This obligation is enshrined in your 'family status', and like 'noblesse oblige' you shouldn't normally expect thank yous; after all, it is simply your family duty.
Every family has a fairly clear 'picking order' = the one with the biggest purse bears the biggest burden (this even applies to simple going out; 'status obligation' also applies here). A foreigner is always seen as 'rich' by definition, and - as suggested by some - it is therefore advisable to be quite clear in indicating what is and what is not allowed.
Dear Martin B,
The described situation regarding the joint payment of family maintenance is completely correct. Indeed the Eastern “network of social services”. And also as it used to be in the Netherlands. I remember that in much the same way, my father, as the eldest of the family, in the 50s and 60s, took the honors when something was going on in our (then large) family. There was also a “picking order”.
However, as mentioned by the author of the article, we are not dealing here with a family's livelihood resp. a number of family members, where one has to rely on each other. It is a situation that has gotten out of hand, like so many others, in which people are constantly responding to requests from the Thai cold side for more money. Against all odds but keep donating. Until the irritation takes on major forms.
It is often true that a farang is often seen as rich in advance. The farang has confirmed this image with wide arm gestures. He has to correct that image himself.
So, as you say, you have to be clear about what you want or don't want. The grumbling on this blog is often that the responsibility for the getting out of hand of this kind of banal “sponsorship” is placed with the Thai. This one keeps asking, demanding, forcing and the partner goes first in this, is the complaint.
Asian people, including Thai, are very pragmatic - if a farang keeps on giving, they will not fail to remind him. It is strange that many farang seem unable to say 'no'. A behavior usually attributed to the Thai.
I keep saying that if people start to hate it, then they have already gone way too far. Please ask yourself why things got so out of hand. And take responsibility yourself. I explained a way to do this in an earlier comment. Nevertheless, I also keep suspecting that with less sense of social and communication skills (to put it that way) they are not able to get out of trouble in a decent way that is acceptable to all.
If the farang continues to do what it is doing, the other will respond accordingly: both maintain each other's behavior. This creates a number of undesirable situations.
Regards, Rudolph
I forgot an important addition: The Eastern social network is mutual. I experienced this up close with a fellow countryman who was actively supported by the Thai 'in-law' family. Over the course of a number of years, this involved considerable amounts for which only partial 'collateral' could be provided. This involved, for example, paying for costly operations and nursing (the fellow countryman was not insured) and the permanent housing of the children.