Reader question: Refused by KLM for a short holiday in London
Dear readers,
With the approaching Brexit in mind, my Thai girlfriend and I decided to book a 5-day flight to London at short notice. She had never been there before and was a great opportunity for us now that the UK is still part of Europe. Although not a Schengen country, I had read that it would not be a problem for my Thai girlfriend (with a residence permit as a family member and family listed as a person) to be admitted to the UK.
After all, at the border we could demonstrate that we have a long-term relationship and that she, as the partner of an EU resident, only wanted to make a short visit to London with me. This could also be deduced from the return tickets and the hotel reservation, so that only a stamp upon entry into the UK is sufficient for her.
That's what we thought, but nothing could be further from the truth, if you fly with KLM like we do. Now it is the case that KLM does not ask or provide information about this at all when booking and checking in. Only when we had completed all check-in, customs and security formalities and reported ourselves on time at the boarding gate were we stopped by the employee on duty in an unfriendly and businesslike manner. After some discussion, it turned out that it really wasn't going to work. We have to get a visa at the Thai embassy, which A. is not possible on Sunday, but B. does not seem right to me either. After all, we fly to the UK?
So money gone for hotel, travel expenses and non-refundable airline tickets. Incidentally, we also had to wait more than 3 hours for our checked-in suitcase.
All in all, for me at least a bad turn from KLM. I myself believe that they have unlawfully refused us. If not, the provision of information in advance and communication afterwards is in any case very customer-unfriendly.
Are there any readers who also have experience with this?
Regards,
Henk
Hi Hank,
I'm sorry you've had this experience, but I wonder where you may have read that Thais do not need a visa for the UK based on family member? After all, you even indicate that the UK is not a Schengen country and that visa for your Thai family member is a Schengen visa. I ask this because I have already helped the Thai wife of an Englishman here a few times with obtaining a visa for the UK when she goes there on holiday with her husband. A traveler always remains responsible for the correct visa papers. How did you book, online? How can KLM check whether you have the correct papers? Unfortunately, this includes the possibility of not being allowed to go. This should always be done in a customer-friendly way in my humble opinion. You are already talking about a discussion that can sometimes degenerate into unfriendly behavior and words (from both sides).
In my humble opinion, KLM has little to do with that. It's been some time now, but when I traveled to London with my Thai girlfriend, she had to have a valid visa. The British Kingdom is not a Schengen country.
Dear Hans Bos, KLM has to deal with this, just like any other airline.
If the traveler does not have a mandatory Visa to enter the UK, the airline will face immediate problems with a return flight.
Try to check in for another country with a Thai or other nationality without a visa.
Give yourself a note that this is not possible with an observant company.
Dear Henk,
It is indeed a pity what has passed. Not a nice trip, money gone!
Also for Dutch people who are married in the Netherlands to a Thai person, it is not possible to enter England without further ado. Neither by ferry nor by plane.
The correct required papers must be purchased in advance.
Inquire at an English travel agency, among others.
A visa to the UK for a married (or relationship equivalent to a marriage) couple is best arranged in advance. A visa (EEA Family Permit) is free in these cases. If you reach a British border guard, they can also arrange the papers on the spot, but then you make it exciting for yourself and many officials are not happy about it.
However, Brexit is just around the corner, so things could be very different in a few weeks. In the event of a no-deal, the UK will no longer fall under EU Directive 2003/38 (free movement of EU nationals and their families). In that case, Thai partners of Dutch citizens must apply for an ordinary British Visitors Visa with supporting documents, fees, etc.
Dear I.Lagemaat, Not only for Dutch people, even I in possession of a British passport and nationality have to apply for a Visa every time for my Thai wife with whom I am demonstrably legally married.
Hank,
In principle, you are right that a non-EU family member should normally be allowed access to all EU countries.
But I don't think it's as easy as you imagined it to be.
Have a look at this page.
https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/entry-exit/non-eu-family/index_en.htm
The minimum advice listed here is: Contact the embassy of the destination country in advance. In your case that is the Embassy of the UK. Did you do that?
England is still a member of the EU but has never been a member of the Schengen countries. This has never been different. This means that if you have a Schengen visa you always have to apply for a dirty one for England if you want to travel there. This has never been different and is generally known and is also stated in the information when issuing the Schengen visa. This is always the traveler's responsibility. The fact that you're standing there at the shack means you haven't done your homework properly and that's stupid. The responsibility lies with you and not with KLM. He should be happy that JU's arm stopped. If you had traveled to an English airport If you had been stopped there and denied entry and you should have returned to the Netherlands immediately, this means that you would have had to buy two tickets and all the associated costs. I think you should be grateful to the KLM employee for preventing all this.
I think this is a scandalous treatment of KLM.
Go and raise this with KLM and give so much here
possible publicity.
Inge
Dear Inge, The fact that Henk and his Thai wife were first sent back to the Boarding gate is only due to the fact that the employee was not attentive or informed at check-in.
Normally, at the check Inn, every airline immediately asks for the mandatory visa.
The fact that they made it to the Boarding gate, and then were sent back first, is perhaps a huge disappointment, but does not detract from her missed Visa Requirement.
It is not the airline or travel agency that has the obligation to provide the necessary visa information in advance.
It could at most be a service from a travel agency, which does not have to assume it, to check with their customers.
The passenger/traveller is in any case personally responsible and in default because he/she has failed to inquire at, for example, the British Consulate.
What you call outrageous treatment here, and what you want to make even more public, is a bit of a mystery to me.
Nowhere in the story does it say how check-in was done. You can already check in at home or use self-service check-in at Schiphol and then no employee is involved. You also only see Customs when you return to Schiphol, not really when you leave. Passport control by the Royal Netherlands Marechaussee. So if the self-service check-in option is used, the employee will only see the passport in real life at the gate. Result: passengers refused because upon arrival in England those passengers are immediately sent back at the expense of the airline. So absolutely not a scandalous but logical approach.
Congratulations.
Exactly the same happened to me with Euro Wings booked in a travel agency and rejected at check in and I was able to go home with my Thai girlfriend.
I was not told at the travel agency that she needed a visa for England.
Made a lot of handling at the travel agency on return but did not get any money back.
Greetings from Cor
Dear Henk, Only holders of a special residence card ('family of an EU/EEA national') issued under Directive 2004/38 can board a plane or boat to the UK in this way. Regular aliens should apply for a visa. The EU/EEA member state (here the UK) can hand it over at the border, but try to reach a British border guard. You will not be able to do that when you leave an airport. At the boat in Calais there are British officials on this side who can arrange that. You must have the correct papers in your pocket (demonstration of a marriage between the foreign national and the EU national or a long-term relationship equivalent to a marriage).
A transporter can be fined if they transport people they could have known would not be allowed access. Such a company as KLM then errs on the side of caution and therefore refuses people who theoretically MUST get a visa at the British border (if there is sufficient proof that they are entitled to EU Directive 2004/38 regarding free travel for EU nationals and their immediate family). That is why the chance that you can convince a KLM is as good as zero and that is why EU Home Affairs (say the Ministry of the Interior of the EU) advises people to arrange a visa in advance and not let it arrive at to fix this only at the border.
More about this in my Immigration Thai partner file ('Can we travel to the UK?', page 12) here on the blog.
Lake:
-
https://www.thailandblog.nl/wp-content/uploads/Immigratie-Thaise-partner-naar-Nederland1.pdf
- https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/entry-exit/non-eu-family/index_nl.htm
It is very unfortunate that this happened to you, but it seems to me that KLM is not to blame, but you yourself. You would have saved yourself a lot of misery if you had read up beforehand.
I hope a visit to UK goes well next time
I would like to know where you read that someone with Thai nationality who has a residence permit and also as a family member can go to England without further ado.????
Even if you can prove that you are legally married to her, it does not give any right for her to enter England without a Visa.
Before you booked this trip you would have been wiser to first check with the British Embassy what is needed for this trip.
Great Britain is not a Schengen country, so that even with a residence permit and a legal marriage to you, your wife still needed a Visa.
When checking in for a flight to London, in the absence of the mandatory Visa for your wife, every airline will refuse to let her check in.
In your case, KLM was obliged to check this, because all further risk of an immediate return flight, in the event of its certain refusal to enter the UK, must be solved by the airline.
I myself have a British passport, and despite the fact that I have been married to my Thai wife for years, even if a so-called British Citizen still has to arrange a Visa for her.
It therefore seems to me an extremely strong story, that you have read this differently for your Thai relationship, and ask the question again,, Where did you read this???
No Willem not all countries of the EU but all countries that belong to the Schengen area and the EEA.
Thank you very much for the more or less relevant comments.
As mentioned, it was a short-term trip and was booked more or less impulsively, precisely with a view to a possible approaching Brexit. This is indeed not the best way. Stupid as Thomas thinks to classify this? I don't know, but in hindsight I certainly did.
Initially, I booked the flight on the assumption that we can receive an entry visa at the UK border. Heard from friends/acquaintances (also last weekend) that this is certainly possible via the channel tunnel.
Rob V. also provides the link in his speech in which this is confirmed in the chapter "at the border without an entry visa" https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/entry-exit/non-eu-family/index_nl.htm
My girlfriend has such a visa, in which I am mentioned by name as partner/referent. I can also demonstrate at all times that we have a common household, live together permanently and the intention was to enjoy a short holiday together in London for 5 days.
Of course I could have spared myself the annoyance and dissatisfaction afterwards….:).
Nevertheless, I have filed a complaint with KLM. So who so about the whole thing.
They let you book, check in, we go through customs and only at the boarding gate are we refused because we cannot show a visa. Firstly, we were flatly refused by the KLM employee, misinformed and we were referred to the Thai !!!! embassy, which already surprised me. The retrieval of the suitcase was also not initiated at first, so we then had to wait more than three hours after we had visited 3 KLM service desks in the meantime.
From the experiences of acquaintances/friends and what is stated in the link above, we should therefore be allowed at the British border.
Incidentally, we were lucky afterwards that we could still cancel the non-refundable hotel tickets free of charge. And we made a virtue of the disappointment and need and booked a 5-day city trip to Portugal via another airline on site at Schiphol. (had to buy some summer clothes because of the beautiful weather ;)))
Well done Hank!!
Don't sit down. Going to Portugal is a fantastic alternative and better weather and much cheaper.
You could have saved the annoyance of not complaining to KLM.
I hope you still enjoyed your city trip!
Dear Henk,
It is a pity that you did not inform yourself well in advance. Only possible with a residence permit 'permanent residence citizen of the Union'. So not if the back of the card says "sustainable stay with Henk"
Great Britain is not part of the “Schengen” area. A Belgian or Dutch person without or with an expired passport or identity card will not be allowed in either.
That's right; a non-European must have a visa to enter the UK, and that has been the case for years;
My Thai wife does not need it, because she also has the Dutch nationality.
Not quite right, Jos: not every non-European needs a visa for the UK. To name a few, Americans, Australians and New Zealanders are allowed to stay in the UK for 6 months without a visa.